Too Much Media (NATS) announcement regarding verified joins and instant payouts
 

Due to concerns raised by affiliates regarding the NATS 3.1.x Instant Payments and Verified Signups features, Too Much Media would like to announce that the following changes have been implemented in NATS 3.1.16 and higher: Instant Payments and the supporting feature of Verified signups will be moved from the main, built-in functionality of the program and made into a separate module. This means that by default Instant Payments and Verified Signups will no longer be a part of the standard NATS 3.1 program. This new, separate module will be called the Instant Payments Module.

The Instant Payments feature was implemented into NATS 3.1 as per client requirements. In order to protect NATS program owners from potential fraud with Instant Payments, the Verified Signup feature was added. This feature reduces the chance that erroneous traffic and signups could be sent to a NATS program and an Instant Payment could be sent prior to the aforementioned signups being credited or charged back by the processor. The recent concerns about Instant Payments and Verified Signups raised by NATS affiliates is of great importance to us and we wish to make the use of this feature as safe as possible to all parties involved, as well as completely optional on the part of NATS program owners.

In addition to moving this functionality to a new module, as a standard policy, we at Too Much Media will be requiring the following in order to implement and use the Instant Payments Module:

1. All NATS program owners using the Instant Payments Module will be required to show both verified and unverified signups in the affiliates? stats pages.

2. All NATS program owners using the Instant Payments Module will be required to provide Too Much Media admin access to their NATS install and server access to ensure that the feature is being used as intended.

3. In addition to these policies, installed NATS modules are always visible from license.php ? this means that on any given NATS affiliate program, you will be able to find out if this module is installed by visiting www.domain.com/license.php, where www.domain.com is the URL for any given NATS affiliate program site.

At Too Much Media, we strive to put forth the best affiliate tracking package the market has to offer and to maintain the integrity of the NATS name and software. As such, the concerns and needs of our clients, as well as their affiliates are of the utmost importance ? we want NATS to be a name that can be trusted by affiliates and webmasters alike for the protection of all parties involved from fraud and / or cheating. We would like to thank everyone for brining to us their concerns and hope that the new implementation of Instant Payments Module will meet industry needs and provide safe, quality functionality to our customers and their affiliates.

Okay... but you still haven't said what is and what isn't verified. What makes a signup real?

Disclosing exactly how fraud detection works defeats the purpose of detecting the fraud.

If we tell you A B and C must happen for the signup to be verified than someone who wants to trick the system just does A B and C for each signup.

I use ccbill...no "verified joins"...

See signature.

At this point that is the case with all NATS programs except for one. Which was the program that required the feature as it was functionality they had existing already to do their instant payouts.

I know...I'm just being a whore RogerV style.

LOL, he's taught you well :)

John, which program is it that we should avoid then?

This is your announcement?

ROFL! :1orglaugh

what the fuck is this bullshit?

can I get a NATS Tshirt?

DarkJedi, if you have a problem with FlashCash, take it up with them. We are nothing but straight forward and you keep acting like a child. I'm done discussing things with you here.

Yesterday, you said you were going to answer what "verified signups" meant.

I don't see the answer.


What's the point of your "announcement"?
I haven't learned anything knew from it.

Where did I say I would explain exactly what they mean? Its fraud detection, and explaining it defeats the purpose of it. I already said that above. You know how many joins are not being verified. If you don't like the results don't use the program. It's the programs choice to use the feature.

The point of the announcement is that if the feature is used by any NATS program affiliates will be 100% aware of it.

John, what is a verified signup and whats a non verified signup?

Read the thread.

I did but i couldnt find the answer.

Very nice John, good announcement

Then you should have seen me twice say I'm not going to.

If you really think that I'm going to explain here in public, on a board that is known for being a breeding ground for fly by night scammers, how the fraud detection works then I don't know what to tell you.

Here, on this web forum, yesterday.
Are you retarded? You don't remember yesterdays discussion?


I fucking know it's a fraud detection system.
Explaining it defeats the purpose? Well thats a fucking rich answer. You could as well have said "go fuck yourselves, we aren't explaining shit"


You are telling me that 30% of my sales are fraud?

What a fucking pile of bullshit.

DarkJedi; I meant where did I say I'd explain what was and wasn't a verified join. I'm sorry you feel the need to make personal insults. Like I said, you're clearly impossible to have a discussion with. If you have a problem with Flashcash take it up with Flashcash. We're being fully upfront about what is going on. If you think the feature is wrong to use then say so and that can be discussed.

I'm not going to explain to you exactly how the signups become verified.

Also, thanks to all the personal insults, twisting of words, and just repeatedly saying whatever you want with nothing to back it up, you're going on my ignore list. Take it up with Flashcash if you have a problem with them.

If anyone has any constructive input on the feature "rather than how does it work? how does it work? how does it work? then I would like to hear it.

So if i get 10 signups and only 8 are verified, i get instant payment for 8 signups then the other 2 i will get a regular payment later or those 2 signups just get lost?

Yeah no shit.

I feel that you're are keeping me for a fool here. What was the point of yesterdays discussion? You shold've just said that you weren't going to explain anything.

You think I didn't know that it was a Fraud Detection system?

I want to know why 30% of my sales are being flagged as fraud.
I have no right to know how exactly that "fraud protection" labels sales as fraudulent?

You aren't getting paid on any unverified sales ever.

Can the sponsor adjust the fraud detection settings?

Who will get the money for the NON verified signups in the end, the sponsor?

I never said I was going to say what makes a signup verified or not. I don't see how you can't understand how that totally defeats the purpose.

Flashcash always had the signup verification. When they came to us we told them there was no way we're doing it unless the total signups are also shown so there is no chance of a reseller not feeling they are getting the full truth. I would think that would be a GOOD thing for affiliates not a BAD thing.

If you feel you are not getting the # of signups verified that you should I would talk to Flashcash and see whats up. Maybe its your traffic. I don't know how you promote. If you have a legitimate problem with how we are reporting the #s to you then please let me know. If you just have a problem that there are verified and unverified joins then it is up to you to use the program or not. We require them to be fully upfront with you about it, and they are.

You think I never talked to them about it?
It's the same old story every time: "everything is fine on our end"



Yeah right. 30% of my traffic are using stolen credit cards to signup http://sexy-celebs.net/hotlink/rolleyes.gif

You should check their message board and see how many webmasters have this problem. Lots of people talking about 20%-30% unverified ratios.

Darkjedi, can you give me a call, 732-385-1536 x111

Thanks!

I don't like the sound of it being 20-30% across the board if that is the case. And believe me, if there is a true problem with it then it will be resolved. We mean what we say when it comes to protecting affiliates interests. Don't take my not wanting to explain exactly what verified & non-verified is as not caring about if there is a real problem or not.

This thread fails to deliver.

I just checked and across the board the verified vs. non-verified are no where near 30% in total.

Thanks John. Good to know. We're planning on having the update done this week.














DJ shut your fucking piehole.

Johm if it is even 1%, then some explaining is needed. These non-verified have already passed the standard scrub. It seems to me that the rest of us need a little explaination why this even exists... it seems to be another way to pass on operational expenses and overhead onto the affiliates.

Mind you own business, shitcock.

This is what people are saying about Unverified sales.
FlashCash won't even reply.

http://www.darksidedata.com/gfy/flashcash1.gif
http://www.darksidedata.com/gfy/flashcash2.gif

That's hysterical coming from you.

Get a life, and you too Frank, i've never had a problem with John and if you seem to think thats brown nosing then so be it.

Well let me tell you why some affiliates may not understand why it doesn't "totally defeat the purpose".

Affiliate sends a sale to a program, the sale is approved by either a 3rd party processor like CCBill, or through gateway, both of which have their own scrubbing and fraud detection.

An affiliate would then expect to get credit and get paid for that sale.

Now, in comes NATS, with its own arbitrary set of rules to determine what does, and what does not, constitute a payable sale.

Oh, and by the way, NATS won't tell you what these new rules are for you to get paid or not for the sale.

So now, affiliates not only have to send a sale to the program (which as always must get through processor fraud prevention), but the consumer that they send must also meet requirements a,b, and c. Whatever on earth those may be (shh it's a secrets!).

If anything, I'm very confused as to why you DON'T understand why affiliates might have their feathers in a ruffle.

As for you not talking about these new membership requirements for payment (that you're calling "fraud detection"), I have a gut feeling that the big reason you're not talking about them, is that they're probably so easily defeated and obvious on their face, that their overall effectiveness probably isn't very robust to begin with.

Let me guess one of the "fraud detection requirements": The user has to have logged into their account X times or in X manner before payout is made, because carders tend not to log in X times or in X manner as a whole?

If it's just a string of archaic junk like that, which can prevent an affiliate from getting payout, then affiliates deserve to be bitchy about it.

And as for having to give NATS ADMINISTRATIVE access to an entire SERVER as a condition of use?

NO serious business will tolerate Big Brother to that degree for long. I honestly can't understand why ANY program would EVER provide THAT much control to a 3rd party. And while they're tolerating it for now, I have a feeling they won't for long.

How funny would it be if Microsoft demanded administrative access to everyone's servers and workstations to make sure you're not using their operating system to commit fraud?

I can't wait for the day when these software companies in this industry realize that they're just that, software companies, and stop trying to be the police of the internets.

Just two cents from the faggot. :2 cents:

Thats security by obscurity, which doesn't keep scammers away that know what they're doing and just pisses webmasters off.

If the system prevents large scale scams (IP location matches credit card location, phone number verification possible etc.) then I don't see the problem unless it's useless anyway.

John, what is the normal process for the sponsor to apply non-verified sales that have become verified to an affiliate's account. Is it totally up to the discretion and action of the sponsor or is it automatic and done by nats?

Ba. You're smarter than that. Not telling fucking DJ on GFY is not the same as refusing to tell a Nats client who asks.

I'd like to know the answer to this as well.

BoyAlley made some great points besides the "no telling" part.

If the "defraud system" can be abused because people know how it works, then it's useless anyway.

Basically it's refusing to tell an affiliate what needs to happen for them to get credit for a sale.

Affiliates already know that a sale has to pass through scrubbers by a third party processor like CCBill or through a gateway. And, affiliates know, and we as an industry accept for good reason, that a % of valid sales will get turned away in exchange for protection from heavy chargebacks and fraud.

Now, NATS is coming in with a layer on top of that. What % of valid sales won't affiliates get credit for? What stops affiliates from getting credit?

If a gateway or processor like CCBill has approved the sale and will payout on it to the program, why wouldn't an affiliate get payment at that same time as well?

Why is NATS trying to be a fraud detection system now? Yet another HUGE mistake on their part IMHO. Just serve up the damn promotionals in various fancy manners, provide affiliates with their link codes, and count the damn sales. Leave the fraud detection to companies that specialize in processing.

This is the type of stuff that's going to make affiliates BlubberCunts itch....

I assume they'll either get refunded / not processed or credited later as it isn't a system to scam away sales from webmasters.

Yeah me too.

You are NOT getting paid for the unverified signups. Ever.

The program gets to keep these money.

Thats what I was wondering about too.

He has a point though :2 cents:

These are the kind of questions that NATS should be addressing in this announcement.


Instead they throw us the fact that YES, there is some "fraud detection system" and NO, we are not allowed to know anything about it.