Green Energy stimulus loans wasted
 

Remember Obama giving green energy loans from the stimulus to Tesla?

Tesla Motors' Dirty Little Secret Is a Major Problem

http://www.fool.com/investing/genera...or-proble.aspx

Energy independence, a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, lower fuel costs: All of these promises are factors behind the rise in electric vehicles' popularity. Unfortunately, they're more fiction than fact. Here's why, and how it could affect companies like Tesla Motors .

Do you want cancer with that battery?
Recently, the Environmental Protection Agency and the U.S. Department of Energy undertook a study to look at the environmental impact of lithium-ion batteries for EVs. The study showed that batteries that use cathodes with nickel and cobalt, as well as solvent-based electrode processing, have the highest potential for environmental impacts, including resource depletion, global warming, ecological toxicity, and human health. The largest contributing processes include those associated with the production, processing, and use of cobalt and nickel metal compounds, which may cause adverse respiratory, pulmonary, and neurological effects in those exposed.


In other words, li-ion batteries that contain nickel and cobalt have a significant effect on health and the environment. More specifically, this includes Panasonic's automotive grade li-ion batteries, which contain lithium, nickel, cobalt , and aluminum, and a proprietary cathode geometry developed jointly by Panasonic and Tesla -- and are currently used in the Model S.

So much for green energy!

The Tesla loan had nothing to do with the stimulus package.

Yeah it did
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-clean-energy/

i hope you dont have a laptop or a mobile phone...

It's always struck me as odd how peeps like ********** espouse things like the tesla while eschewing other things like fracking, clearly not have any idea about either.

Not with a battery that big, do you?

The thing about lithium being bad is not a new one, I never understood what the big thing was over a car getting over 35 mpg. I sold a pick up last year made in 1982 that got over 45 and ran on diesel.

in Afghanistan they found a huge deposit of Lithium, if those new leaders that Obama left in charge start mining that, the middle east will not be about oil anymore.

Aw for Fuck sakes man, you really need to get your facts straight and stop being a part of the problem making people dumber.

Tesla paid it back the $365 Million from the stimulus plan, a full 5 years ahead of schedule, twice as fast as required by the original 2010 loan agreement provided to them by the Department of Energy. http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/earl...17;s-atvm-loan

And don't forget other car companies benefitted as well.

Next, Those very same batters are in your laptops, which make up alot more batteries than Tesla cars. By your thinking, everyone should stop buying laptops.

Next, batteries are SAFE and can be recycled. Gasoline on the other hand, pollutes when refined, pollutes when pumped into your car, and pollutes when it is burned. It costs 16 times more than Electricity to get the same milage.

There are so many ill informed dumb fucking idiots out there who instead of opening a science book and learning the basics much prefer to spout endless shit and then pat them selves on the back for "I dun think I lernd sumfin today I tell yer whut!". If you're one of those dumb fucks that ignore true progress and replace it with republican-fed lies to the small-brained morons of the world I feel really fucking sorry for you.

i am pretty sure the total number of laptop and cellphone LI-ION batteries worldwide exceed the numbers from Tesla by far (which btw are laptop batteries switched together)

but actually i despise electric cars, but for totally different reasons

Of course. There are plenty of diesel cars getting fantastic gas mileage, some in the 70+mpg even.

Anti-green Tesla in front of bird-killer wind turbines:

http://assets.inhabitat.com/wp-conte...rive-tesla.jpg

I support better mass transportation systems... :)

:stoned

ADG

oh man, he's gonna have nightmares now...

I'm sorry, are you saying the article is wrong? No you are changing the subject, needless to say, we gave a "loan" to a company to research something that should not be used in it's current configuration.

If I bought and electric car, what would weigh more, the batteries from my laptop and cell phone or the car? See that's what Obama wants, all of us driving electric cars! So your argument is null and void

In Los Angeles, as you know, the air quality gets better and better, when is the last time you saw black smoke coming from a big rig?


If Obama wanted to really do something about air quality and gas mileage, he would pass a law to make the stop lights work so we spent less time stopped at them

:1orglaugh

no, they are not the same batteries. li-ion batteries in laptops, etc, don't use cobalt & nickel cathodes

http://i.imgur.com/zJ4u9RN.jpg

Why would you say that?

If they really wanted to kill less bird, the wind mills would look like this
http://www.see.murdoch.edu.au/resour...g/windmill.jpg

Less birds would hit them

It doesn't matter to Vendzilla. He just wants to rant about boy wonder (Obama) because clearly things were much better under the last Republican White House.

I do too, right now, Los Angeles has some of the best in the world. I don't use it, but it is pretty cool.

yes, and cars would look like this

http://johncmoulder.com/wp-content/u...with-Lamps.jpg

Don't be a dip shit

The design makes the fan blades look more solid and with them usually being out of alignment, the birds won't go near them. If they did that with the new ones, I believe less birds would get killed.
Plus there is this design
http://www.fourwinds10.net/resources...-designs-2.jpg

I use it and it's pretty fucking good. I've lived in the bay area and portland, 2 other regions with serious mass transit and can say la mass transit is on par with them.

At presence, they are only considering recycling them as they're not enough of them yet to recycle. But that's in the works.

The Valley is pretty cool, we have Amtrak going right thru it and we have a bus lane that runs along side of Victory and then Topanga. I would love to ride my bike down that road just once!

BTW, My bike gets 40 MPG with a passenger and sounds cool in the process!

Please quote the specific section in that link you posted that mentions Tesla got any of that stimulus funding.

Thanks.

Better yet, here ill help you out:

http://www.teslamotors.com/about/pre...artment-energy

You're welcome.

Sure http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ment_of_Energy
They got their money for loans from the Stimulus
President Barack Obama unveiled on May 7, 2009, a $26.4 billion budget request for DOE for fiscal year (FY) 2010, including $2.3 billion for the DOE Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE). The budget aims to substantially expand the use of renewable energy sources while improving energy transmission infrastructure. It also makes significant investments in hybrids and plug-in hybrids, in smart grid technologies, and in scientific research and innovation.[7]
As part of the $789 billion economic stimulus package in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, Congress provided Energy with an additional $38.3 billion for fiscal years 2009 and 2010, adding about 75 percent to Energy's annual budgets. Most of the stimulus spending was in the form of grants and contracts.

You're welcome

That's a different link you retard.

Wait, you're wrong and you call me a retard?

Unlike you, I already knew where they got their loan "shit for brains"

Yo don't fuck with vendzillas birds

Fixed it.

What people still don't get about electric cars is that 90% of the power made to charge the battery was created by burning coal, or gas. Pick your poison, burn it at the pump or at the plant. Only benefit is that the plant burns it more efficiently than your cars motor.

For fuck sakes..

The Tesla batteries are made up of thousands of little batteries just like what you have in your laptop. There are over 500 Million Laptops sold each year with about 10 batters each, or 5,000,000,000 batteries, EVERY YEAR. Like all kinds of other things they contain various dangerous chemicals. Your computer contains various metals such as led which also pollute.

To make a car go, you have to burn the gasoline. About 10% of the energy is used to actually move the car. The other 90% is lost to heat, and 100% of it is turned into gasses that you breath into your lungs.

Electric cars on the other hand are much more efficient, converting much more of the stored energy into motion and much less into heat. They emit no combustion gasses because they don't combust, and the batteries can be recycled.

Are Tesla's 100% green? No of course not - but they and other electric cars are much more green than gas cars.

Hi Huey,

In some places in the world yes, but in other places, no. In Canada most of the electricity is derived from hydro electric, not coal.

Not only that, but they get shipped across the distance of the Atlantic at least 2-3 times in various components before getting assembled which produces even more carbon footprints.

Posted again for **********, since he's avoiding the actual facts of batteries in Teslas.

I use to have budgerigars, built custom cages. It was good for stress. My first two were Spud Wrench and Clevis . Then I had a Military Macaw that said "here kitty kitty kitty" and answered my phone.

It kills me (and everyone else) that you make a huge deal over something that really isn't. Your article says "2.3 billion dollars" but it's not like $2.3 billion went to Tesla, only a small amount did, and it's pretty pointless anyhow being as the money was repaid early AND the company is still in business. In fact, they opened up a dealership here in Rocklin. More jobs for us!

If you want to talk about how our government spends our money, let's talk. Explain to me why President Bush had a stimulus package that send hundreds of millions of dollars to the Phillipines to "repay Filipino veterans who had fought Japan during WWII". WUT? Can you please explain to me how a US stimulus package sent hundreds of millions of dollars went to a foreign country and how the US economy benefited from that?

You are so desperate to make Obama look bad that all you are doing is making yourself look worse.

In reality, all of the companies are putting more and more resources toward dirty energy sources that were never before accessible – or never before considered acceptable. With limited regulation and oversight, and with plenty of subsidies and tax breaks, all of the companies discussed here are upping their oil and natural gas antes by drilling deeper than ever into the oceans (including Exxon in the Russian Arctic), increasing operations in the Canadian tar sands, dramatically expanding hydraulic fracking in ever-more parts of the U.S. and the world, and – with the exception of ConocoPhillips – hunting and drilling for oil in Iraq and/or Kurdistan. It all makes perfect sense, if you go by what Exxon vice president J.S. Simon told Congress in 2008: "The pursuit of alternative fuels must not detract from the development of oil and gas."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz2qyr9DkvG

http://www.heco.com/portal/site/heco...119fea9RCR D&

Ok, so you are agreeing with me

Actually more like 25 to 30%

Batteries can combust and no they are not greener because of the carbon footprint it takes to make them.

The op was not about efficiency, it is about all the polluting that is done to make the batteries, try to stay on post, I know it's hard for you!@!

A recent report found that Canadian companies contributed 73% more to air pollution than companies in the United States. Within the 73% more emissions it was found that Canadian companies "released 29% more respiratory toxins into the air than the U.S.


oil sands pollution has increased by 20% since 2009.


VOCs and other air contaminants are set to increase in the future as a result of continued output from the oil sands.[5] Oil sands pollution is not only set to increase VOCs, but also, acid rain

Advocacy group Ecojustice estimates overall raw sewage dumping in Canada to be around 200 billion litres a year. The Canadian government recently announced waste water regulations that would allow for sewage to be dumped into Canadian waters until 2040. Proper measures for waste water disposal will not immediately be put in place, rather, they will be implemented gradually from 2020 to 2040.
However, in the meantime, Canadian municipalities may continue to pollute their waters by dumping sewage. This can prominently be viewed with Halifax, Nova Scotia. In Halifax, human waste is dumped directly into the Halifax harbour. This dumping can mainly be attributed to a failure in their sewage treatment infrastructure. Victoria, British Columbia also follows a similar practice by getting rid of their untreated waste into the ocean.

Agreed, it's easier for them to make money off us with those technologies, I want to see more research in hydrogen powered cars. On a submarine, we separated O2 from the Hydrogen in the sea water. We stored the O2 to breathe and pumped the Hydrogen over board. The same tech could be used to power a car, the tech is several decades old.

I live in BC and I work on run of the river hydro electric power plants part of the year. In BC electric cars are a good Idea, but we are blessed here. Rest of the world not so much. But you have to start somewhere I guess.

I don't think that electric cars are a solution, but rather a push in the right direction.
It's clearly no secret that in a few generations the oil will run out. So I am on board with alternatives and changing peoples mindset that the only way to go is with gasoline.

To get to good/better/cleaner technology, you need to work at it.

Companies, research, all builds on itself. I can't really see electric/batteries in the future anytime soon. When things smooth out and they are able to build Nanoarchitectures for lithium-ion batteries, that will help.

No matter we need to move away from burning oils outright.

It would be nice if we could use fusion, unfortunately we haven't gotten the ratio of energy return past 1; Meaning right now for every 1 unit of energy used to create a fusion reaction I believe they can get .6 back. We solve that there are oceans full of hydrogen (part of the water) waiting as fuel.

Is there anything at all that you don't try to blame on Obama? The Bush admin appointed Hamid Karzai as the temporary leader in Afghan, he then won the election as the President. Obama didn't have shit to do with it,

Seriously dude you are obsessed, you really need a shrink.

Obama is pulling troops out of Afghanistan ? Yes or at least working on it.

Is he leaving someone in charge? Yes

Where did I lose you? I think you need a copy of hooked on phonics!

Like I said, I wish they would push hydrogen powered cars. Fill up with water, separate the hydrogen from the o2, then pump them into a cylinder and spark it. The exhaust is water going back into the tank. It's a long way off, but with the right backing and minds, it could work. HHO

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...t-from-hyundai

not as easy as you say - but to me hydrogen is also a way better alternative solution to gas than batteries

but once again it depends on how you produce whatever is needed - simply filling water in your tank won't work (at least for now)

The tech for splitting up the H20 is old, we did it on a submarine to get the O2. There has to be a way to make it smaller for a car. If we could use ocean water to make pure Oxygen to store for use to pump into the air on board as needed on a submarine that was first launched in the 60's, then this shouldn't be a problem.