Fitty stimulus packages:thumbsup

I think you have been drinking the kool aid far too long.. You are bad as the conspiracy nutters, in the fact that you can't understand any sort of reality with out somehow being able to blame everything wrong with the world on Obama. As I said before you are obsessed. See a shrink.

Just got home from an intense major incident ( IT ) .

Tx for all the laughs, mainly to the OP . :thumbsup

most citizens allready have tons of batteries with their smartphones, notebooks whatsever inside their households, and no one seems to care or be concerned

now theres a decent car by an independent manufacturer that starts to get successfull and ouups the scandal goes

You know crockett, you sure are a waste of time, you have nothing to add but to call me names, typical liberal response. Why don't you just bow out gracefully. You are just out of your league.

Seriously, do you have anything intelligent to say?

You know I like you and respect you. But you are starting to go off the deep end.

Tony, you and I disagree on things, but we are civil to each other. crocket jumps in threads just to call me names. The op is about facts, if you disagree with the facts or want to make comments, go ahead. But if I call you on it, then you shouldn't get your panties in a twist.
crocket is a moron that always takes the liberal side of the debate. And when he runs out of propaganda to use, he starts with the insults, pretty lame if you ask me.

I have a problem with hybrid and electric cars because of the huge carbon foot print they have because of the metals and chemicals they use in their batteries and having the government spending millions to loan them and millions more to promote them.

i really think you should start to worry about the carbon footprint of cars like the F150 - huge piece of metal with horrible mpg and not more space inside than a regular Jetta or Passat

still the most sold car in the US (for whatever reason)

seriously - before you start worrying about cars that in the foreseeable future will remain a small percentage of total cars sold, rather start convincing people to drive smaller (in total size/weight) cars with 3 or 4 cylinder gas or diesel engines that do 40 mpg or more

but since that doesnt fit your agenda, i dont have much hope

I drive a F150. It gets ok gas mileage for a 4x4 with a V8. I don't drive it much anymore. When I go on trips I use my Harley that gets just a hair over 40 mpg.

My agenda is common sense.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, federal policies to prop up and promote electric cars will cost taxpayers $7.5 billion through 2019.

It's not about the size of sales that I'm concerned about, it's the money that the government is spending on each car when the battery technology is flawed. They need to address that before pushing forward.

Last month, the ?father of the Prius,? Takeshi Uchiyamada declared that electric cars were simply ?not viable.? "Because of its shortcomings--driving range, cost and recharging time--the electric vehicle is not a viable replacement for most conventional cars," said Uchiyamada. "We need something entirely new."
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...as-Powered-Car

Show me the test done by an independent company that has nothing to gain except the payment and I MIGHT believe it.

Dynamo, let's be clear. EVERYTHING has an impact on the environment. What I usually bitch about is people's disregard for the facts. Tesla promote itself as a very green car which it is, but of course things like its batteries and manufacture cause some pollution too.

What I wish people would do is support more companies that not only have a green policy, but push harder for change to the system. For example, tax subsidies should go to new green companies for research and development, not to big oil.

But that's what you do, just like in this thread. You say peeps should pick up a science book, then go on to say laptop batteries are the same as the batteries in the Tesla. I posted a chart 2x showing the basic difference for you, which you disregarded.

That's why I like replying to your comments, btw, so don't you go changing! :1orglaugh

Exactly right.

Why?

Personally I was never a big fan of electric but I am really getting there. IMO I think Telsa makes the best electric car. I tried the Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf and neither compare to Telsa.


About 10k to 40k of Birds die from hitting Windmills every here, but this is nothing compared to other sources.

Lighted Communication Towers : 40 to 50 MILLION bird deaths each year.
Cars : 60 to 80 Million Bird deaths each year
Windows : 100 Million to 1 Billion per year
Power Lines : 130 Million to 174 Million
Domestic cats : Hundreds of Millions.


That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. There are too many cars in busy cities. Stop lights are used to KEEP TRAFFIC MOVING, not slow it down. Since the world love their cars, replacing them with greener cars is the best way to reduce pollution.

But hey, you know what you would be a good start? Drive-thru windows at MacDonalds. Talk about a waste of energy for all the wrong reasons.

Wrong again. Don't you read anything but right-wing bullshit? http://www.technologyreview.com/news...-gets-a-boost/
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesl...ycling-program
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/tesla...in-europe.html (since 2011)
https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/

I don't think Hyrdogen is a good idea. As you like to say about batteries, there is a huge cost to the environment to make and refine Hydrogen. And, Hydogen requires very large spherical tanks in your car. And hydrogen doesn't just burn like gas when in an accident. It explodes with incredible force. And besides, Hydrogen requires a whole new delivery infrastructure so cars can "gas up". Why bother, when you can get "gas up" at home with an electric car?


This is called Electrolysis, and sure I thought about this too. In fact I did this when I was a little kid. With a couple of test tubes or jars, a plastic bucket, wires and DC current, I could separate the Oxygen and Hydrogen from water, then light the gas on fire for a fun POP of a mini explosion. Sound like the answer, right? Zap water and turn it into fuel. The problem is that it is not efficient enough. It takes alot of energy to separate the H and O from water, and alot of time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolysis

http://www.abtassociates.com/newsrel...nvironmen.aspx

This study was done in partnership with the EPA

Not laughing at this - I really think you're right. Vendy, maybe you should see a shrink...



:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup



Vendy, it's you that has the issues. You are so blinded by any other ideas that do not sit perfectly with what you think you know. The basic issue is this : The world is a dirty place thanks to coal and big oil. Alternatives need to be discussed, found, explored and exploited. That's it, thats all. Stop shitting over other ideas just because you're an old fart too set in his ways. By your thinking, your computer would still be nothing but a terminal connected to a Univac.

It's a shame that you call people like Crockett a "Waste of time" when you are the one with the ass-backwards ideas.

But Vendy old pal.... don't you agree that it is better to have a car that does not spew out noxious gasses out of its ass just to get people from here to there? Don't you at least agree that a high tech car is better than a new car based on the century-old "technology" of a noisy, dirty, gasoline engine? This isn't the 1950's anymore...

But Vendy this is the entire point. Maybe battery technology isn't perfect, but R&D money and other loans are intended to help RESEARCH and DEVELOP new technologies to make things better.

As a consumer, the Chevy Volt is flawed because the range sucks (50 miles per charge). Tesla beat them silly with a 250 Mile range. Imagine a few years from now when a 500 Mile and 1000 mile battery range becomes reality. This can only be achieved by more research and development. The government's push and promotion on this is a great great idea.




Well first of course he would say that.

My problem with Hybrid cars is that they carry around a gas engine, transmission, gas tank, oil tank, oil pump, pistons etc etc and all the extra weight, placing unnecessary burden on the electric engine. Strip all that stuff out and you have a lighter car that can go further on a charge. The gas engine components in a way, make the reason for the electric side of the car moot, and vice-versa. The Prius is a pretty nice car, but seems flawed in my opinion.

Maybe in Canada, but stop lights are used to keep traffic going sounds a little weird. Do you run red lights a lot in Canada?

Ok, so they started
You do know that Hydrogen is made from water right?

That's why I want to see more efforts go into it. Make the chemical reaction more efficient and we will have the perfect power plant.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markrogo...-going-to-try/

right now Tesla indeed buys regular laptop batteries from Panasonic

or at least people argue about it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster


But:


and to put that into perspective

So everyone that disagrees with you needs a shrink? I know who needs a shrink!


crocket gave no ideas, only that I needed a shrink. And I think the world needs new ideas, but not ones that involve all the dangerous chemicals

I never said that, voices in your head?

So you are agreeing with me

Carbon footprint is bigger than a normal car because of the battery, that's what I don't like about them

He will ignore your facts and raise you a couple innuendos

and one more:
http://cleantechnica.com/2013/09/10/...top-batteries/

so i have to admit that they use indeed way more batteries than i thought - but it's still laptop batteries

good thing i said that i dont like electric cars anyways...

Anyone have a study on how much lead paint was used in the interiors of submarines?

None, not much paint at all. But then all you care about is attacking me. Fucking Troll

20,000 units, 7,000 laptop batteries per car, that's 140 million laptop batteries
If Tesla continues to grow, this could turn into a huge problem.

While they are the same form factor, 18650, but are not of the same chemistry, the key difference is the nickel cobalt cathodes(which is the problem). laptop batteries used in laptops do not use nickel cobalt

more here

http://www.teslamotors.com/forum/for...ly-lithium-ion

http://largebattery2012.blog.terra.c...oxide-battery/

Just trying to diagnose the root cause of this mental obsession of yours.

What's causing your obsession of me?

Here's an interview with the CTO of Tesla where he talks about using the nickel cobalt batteries

http://articles.sae.org/11923/

Look everyone, like electric cars?
Well batteries suck
Here's a better idea by Honda called the FCX Clarity
http://www.carscoops.com/2014/01/hon...ogen-fuel.html
Fill it up at a station just like gas, no emissions other than water. Running an electric motor.
This is the kind of tech we should look at, we can never run out of Hydrogen.

That only works for very localized travel.

Speaking for myself, I did not own a pickup for the inside space; never knew anyone that did. Cargo space.

One lead paint comment about Zilla versus hundreds of hours spent ranting about Obama.

Lol you crack me up

Obsession confirmed

Cargo space, being able to tow trailers with ski boats or jet skis or dirt bikes on them. Pickups are awesome!

4X4's are the best

but why do they sell like crazy - there cant be that many mexican gardeners...

and you cant tell me that 1 million+ pickups sold every year are used to tow boats every weekend (which you also can do with a regular car unless your boat is midsize yacht)

People here like to fix up their homes, you can bring home a full sheet of plywood in the bed of mine. I have a couple milk crates in the back for when I go grocery shopping. A ski boat with a big V8 in it can weigh a lot. You would be surprised how many times I get asked to help haul something because I have a pick up. I have always owned a pick up! My first was a 70 dodge 4x4 with a 440 magnum...

Also, not everyone lives in the city, if you own any property, you have to own one

When talking to you there is no reasoning or any chance that you will ever accept anything that doesn't fit your narrow little view of the world as you see it. Trying to reason with you or explain something to you is a waste of time. However I'm doing a community service by telling you to visit a shrink..

Meanwhile Tesla is now out selling BMW, Mercedes and Lexus in many areas of the US but that's a failure in your little Fox News utopia.

Lol.... And you were saying that you were concerned about " the carbon footprint " ...... :) :)

I don't have a dog in this race, but read the whole article. Tesla is outselling the top of the line of the 3 mentioned for a few months. Apples and oranges. The entry level Sclass is $25k more than a top line tesla. And the feds don't kick in a rebate.

That being said, I like electric cars. I might trade my Smart car in for the electric version.

Why I also have a Harley that gets a hair over 40 MPG
I know that's not as good as your skateboard, But I'm happy.

End result is that Battery based cars are being sold because they are good for the environment, that's a lie.

The Hydrogen car that Honda makes is much better

LOL, you haven't even got into the conversation you dumb fucking shit for brains!

All you have done in this thread is try to insult me and you can't even do that.

You are a waste of my time, you have a problem with what I'm saying, join the debate, don't yell insults from the sidelines and confirm just how fucking stupid you are!!!

The thread is based on a government study that shows that the batteries in the Tesla are bad for the environment, please tell me where that's wrong you mental midget!

Just so long as the government doesn't give out a loan, even if it is paid back early, RIGHT?

or you do it like the people over here - you just borrow a trailer for the weekend

or have your stuff delivered

People use them as work vehicles; and there is a whole tot of empty space between LA and NYC, trucks come in handy for the people that live there.

I suspect boats rank pretty low on the reason trucks are purchased.

Dynamo,

I didn't answer you yet because I really don't know how to answer you. I'm not a chemistry major and I wanted to do some research before answering you.

You said in your post that the batteries are not the same, and you posted a chart:

http://i.imgur.com/zJ4u9RN.jpg

If you look at the very bottom of the chart you posted it says "Table 1: Reference names for Li-ion (Lithium Ion) batteries. All of the batteries are Lithium Ion, and are used in cars & computers. The chemical composition may be different for different types of batteries but this is to be expected. I don't know which of the compounds in each of the batteries is more polluting than the other, but this is not the point. I am happy to say that All of them have pollution issues when it comes to the manufacturing process, especially if the plant that makes them dumps waste instead of process & recycle it properly.



Wow... now you're trolling. Without traffic lights, your city would be in 24/7 gridlock and save lives. Sure they're a nuisance when you've got to get from A to B, but really man... fuck.. now you're anti traffic-light?

Sigh... I guess you didn't read my post. Yes there's Hydrogen in water, but it is not the only source.

Allow me to school you on SCIENCE 101. Hydrogen powered cars convert Hydrogen into electriciy with something called a Fuel Cell. At first it seems like a GREAT idea because (Hey! It's electric!) and Hey Hey! It produces zero emissions except for WATER (Yes, Water comes out of the tail pipe in a Hydrogen powered car) and heat.

The Hydrogen fuel to power your car can come from water, and it can also come from Natural gas. A process called steam reformation can be used to separate the hydrogen in the gas from the carbon and is the most common way to get Hydrogen. If the point of using Hydrogen in cars is to save the earth, getting it from Natural gas is the worst possible way to do it because surprise - it ads CO2 and other crap to the atmosphere.

By the time Hydrogen is put into your tank the cost to you is almost the same as regular gas too, not including the cost of the carbon footprint.

Besides that, the cost is high. You need the cars to run on them, and you need the infrastructure to fuel them as I said earlier. The cars are very expensive - over $100,000 right now. Then there's the storage of Hydrogen. Did you know that Hydrogen expands when it gets warm? To make sure the thanks don't explode, Hydrogen powered cars have to vent some gas to reduce the pressure if the car is parked in the sun for too long. Leave your car out for a few days, and the tank will be empty.

So really, really? Tell me fucking why you think Hydrogen is a better solution than plug-in electric. Come fucking on...

My god you are hopeless.

I give up.

Vendy: Just keep on voting for republican assholes. Just keep on sucking the tit of big oil and paying a fortune and a half for the energy you use. Just keep on polluting your world and choking the children. Just keep your head in the sand and dismissing all forms of real progress so you can live forever in the "good old days". Be happy my friend, be happy.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=enpmXZYc5qA

The bamboozling of America.

Why would I want to borrow a trailer when I have a truck?

I never said get rid of the stop lights, read again

So wait, you are telling me there is a bad way to produce it and a good way to produce it and you are telling me we are stuck with the bad way?

Come on, earlier you told me you could make it. Yes it has challenges, but so does everything else. If you used electricity to make hydrogen from clean energy, then stored it for use. Yes it expands, so does gasoline, you knew that didn't you?
They have working models of cars that are not tethered to electric plugs that don't need a battery that have a range of over 200 miles that are cleaner than anything else on the road and you think it's not worth the time to look at?

Wait, I bring up a car that has zero emission and somehow your twisted mind thinks I want to pollute the world, get a fucking grip!

Just because I think Obama is a shit for a president, don't think you know how I vote. I'm not republican. Under Obama the cost of gas has skyrocketed. But you want to blame the republicans for that? Pull your head out of your ass!

I see a bunch of holes in that, I watched an episode of top gear and they love the new tech. James Mays drove it, he really liked the idea.

His point is don't own a truck for the 20% of the time you actually do use it for the purposes it was designed for (read: "2 milk crates in the bed for grocery shopping" would not fall under "purposes it was designed for"), own a lower-emmission vehicle and rent a trailer (or similar apparatus) when you need it.

You mean like earlier in this thread when I mentioned I have a Harley that gets a little over 40 mpg?
If you are going to comment, read first! Otherwise don't waste our time!