Obama's 'Cliff' Proposal: $1.6 Trillion in Tax Increases
 

Great solution Mr. President.

Is there any chance he might consider lowering spending?


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obamas...125116262.html

we wanted wars, wars have to be paid for.

every serious expert said no matter what taxes were going up.

I'd be glad to see defense cut 200 bil a year.

God forbid they cut a little from the defense budget..

taxes are going to be increased, many more times, but it still isn't going to fix anything. no one has the nads to seriously curb spending.

And you are ok with taxes continuing to go up, without any consideration of reducing spending?

Most economists agree that the debt and deficit are so high that a combination of tax increases and spending cuts are needed. Even jumping off the "fiscal cliff" doesn't fix the problem though. The US will still have large deficit. They need to some tough medicine like they dished out for the EU countries.

Obama is in the driver seat because he can do nothing and blame the GOP.

True.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...y_category.jpg

The fiscal cliff is a leverage tool, nothing more.
If we go over the cliff the laws can still be changed before the consequences take place.
Going over it and then raising revenue can be called 'lowering taxes' by the Norquist crowd.
There won't be 1.6 in new taxes... But you wouldn't start a negotiation asking for your actual target would you?

Obama has finally learned how to handle opposition without getting paddled.
1.6T is a boogeyman. The cliff is a boogeyman. Riling up voters is a boogeyman.
He is using them effectively to get the deal he actually wants done.

My expectation is a cap on deductions at around 50K (which CBO estimates at 750B revenue), a small raise in taxes of less than the pre-bush tax cut rate on people over 500K (which CBO estimates at 200B revenue) and some cuts in spending (especially military budgets) to drop by an about equal 800B to 1Trillion. That would put 2T a year back in the coffers, allow republicans to save face by technically lowering taxes and allow Obama to claim he used a balanced approach. The deduction cap would hit the same top 2% but would hit people who don't actually pay the marginal rates the hardest. So people who pay 14% on 200M would take a bigger hit than people paying 30% on 200M. I'd also expect some form of the buffet rule to be enacted.

Just 'Asking nicely' won't make any of that happen. Seems Obama has figured that out.

Also btw... People who voted for Obama don't want 1.6T in taxes and no spending cuts.
If that happens the country will be pissed across the board.

Interesting fact the interest payments on the debt are the same percent of GDP that they were in 2000. So if go back to the 2000 budget of taxing the rich and less defense, we would have a surplus. 2000 was not in anyway a bad year and rich people were not leaving the US in droves.

Raising taxes just gives governments more money to waste no matter what country you live in. Counties (and governments) have to live within their means and cut spending or "cliffs" will be the least of your worries...

I wouldn't be too bothered if they spent the money well.

Trident. Why the fuck do we need that shit?

Governments *NEVER* spend your money well.

It's tough medicine, but realists know it has to happen. Republicans got us into this mess, and their solution would be to keep cruising along with rich people getting breaks and socking away their money in foreign bank accounts.

That said, the government is wasteful with a capital A.

If Department of Education was bigger, then it could eventually swap pie slices with Welfare.

Let's see the Republican plan... oh yeah, they don't have one, as usual.

As soon as 98% of the citizens see EXACTLY how the R's want to balance the budget, the D's will win the day... again!

98% of the workers in the US make less than $250K p/year - 97% of small businesses in the US make less that $250K p/year.

Those who make more will see a tax increase. That's what MOST Americans want to see, and that's why Obama won a second term. He won't budge on this, and the GOP will have to, or continue losing elections moving forward.

Taxes are at a 50 year low right now, and all of the talk about keeping taxes low for the supposed "job creators" has been proven to be solid bullshit, as they have not created any fucking new jobs in the 12 years they have been getting away with this scam.

You like the Republican's plan? What exactly, is the Republican's plan?

We clearly know where you are at Mr.Foodstamps. Obama won by 3 million votes. He sure as hell better sign the dream act this time around for the illegal aliens that got him his second term.

Mistake! The US is becoming more and more socialist like my crappy country Canada. Get ready to be handing over up to 60% of your earnings to cover sub par health care and to make sure all the single mothers can afford to keep plopping out babies.

I don't take 10 cents from ANY government handout program - not a dime! Never have, and (hopefully) never will.

That said, the number of food stamp recipients wouldn't be so high if tax cuts actually resulted in job growth. Trickle down economics is a scam, and so are extra tax breaks for billionaires.

People are stupid, but they are smart enough to see that criminals are in charge.

The high end tax rate in the US in the 1950's was 91%. Now they're crying like it's the end of the world, because MOST Americans wants this rate to go from 35% to 39%, like it was in under Clinton.

Yeah, socialism, communism, it's the end of the world - blah blah blah!

Any American that wants to pay more taxes is an idiot and doesn't deserve a vote.

Let's forget that trickle-down economics may or may not be a scam. Let's ignore for a minute that the top 1% of earners should be paying higher taxes, or maybe they shouldn't.

Let's look at one number really quickly. $10 billion. Daily. By the federal government alone. This doesn't include state taxes. County taxes. City taxes. That is just federal.

Do you really believe that we can tax a group of people, that you say are crooks who most likely steal, enough money to cover that bill? How on earth do we tax crooks?

It's not going to work. So instead of focusing on a pipe dream of taxing the ultra rich more money, which wouldn't solve the problem anyway, we should probably look for a different answer. Don't you think?

Most Americans want the tax rate to go from 35% to 39%?

My first question is, how much is most?

My second question is, of this group of "most" people, how many of them are in that tax bracket?

My third question is, if these "most" people are not in that tax bracket, would they also be rooting for their own taxes to increase 5%? 3%? Even just 1%?

These are all questions that the takers in society have a problem answering. In some respects I would love to see what happens to these obama fans if a solution isn't found and EVERYONE gets a nice tax increase.

If you think the deficit can be erased solely by cutting spending then you're just as much of an idiot.

No one wants to pay more taxes, but many realize that a combination of spending cuts and tax increases is the only way to make the math add up.

98% = MOST Americans.

You guys have already altered the argument in this post to confuse the issue.

2% of Americans will see a modest tax increase on income over $250K - BIG FUCKING DEAL!

Until that pill is swallowed, the negotiations will continue to stall, and 98% of the American public will know who is to blame... Period.

2% of Americans are going to pay 1.6 trillion in tax increases?

Altered what argument? You are claiming 98% of the population wants taxes to go from 35% to 39% for that tax bracket. This is a tidbit that YOU added to the conversation.

Show me. Where is this data from?

No, I said that's where the negotiations begin. If you are not willing to give 98% of the American people a tax break unless the top 2% get their asses kissed (again) then you are not negotiating.

Hmmm, good question. I guess Romney won because he was the candidate the American people wanted.

Oh, wait a minute... he lost. Now I'm just all confused...

LOL.

Now I know why you post pictures all of the time.

I want a part of all this free shit Obama is giving everyone. What entitlement programs did he create again?

You bet they will. The president will be to blame, He will have shown the world that he is unable to deal successfully with 435 other people.

Can the people who are complaining about a tax increase at least acknowledge they know its a marginal tax?

Sure Mr Stamps...post some more irrelevant lame pictures.

Obama is the president. It's his cross to bear if the whole economy comes crashing down.

He wasn't able to the first four years and the public decided he is still better than the other side. What does that tell you?

What reality do you live in?

Straight from your lover Breitbarts mouth:

Poll: More Americans Blame Republicans For Fiscal Cliff Impasse
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...s-fiscal-cliff

$1.6 Trillion is marginal?

If my bankaccount showed up being short $1.6T I would be concerned...very concerned actually.

That too many people have their hands out and feel it's someone elses job to pay for their stuff.

What reality do you live in where it's *cool* to be taxed another $1.6t dollars?

At this point I welcome the fiscal cliff if for no other reason than to shut up the idiots.

Nice deflection.

That's exactly why I despise wasting my time with any sort of intelligent conversation with conservatives, prove them wrong on one point and they quickly start babbling on about something else like some kind of carnival barker.

What are the deep spending cuts that the Republicans are offering?

Which tax loopholes are the Republicans putting on the table?

To say the GOP plan is better, requires a specific plan, which they refuse to offer, as they know it will be totally unacceptable.

They lost the election in 2012, and they will lose further, come 2014.

When you can't accept a 4% tax increase on your annual income of OVER $250K you can suck an egg. Cry me a fucking river. No one gives a shit about your "financial problems" - get over it!

you know what's going to happen here, the mess will just be passed along to another day, neither side wants to do what needs to be done. i wouldn't either if it wasn't my own money i'm spending and the Republicans are just as big of spendthrifts as the Democrats. as long as none of the entities who borrow the US money says 'no' they'll just keep spending.

i need to go back to YouTube and watch The Creature from Jekyl Island again - fascinating how the Federal Reserve works.

Did you read the topic of the thread.. and did you read the attached article?

Obviously not.

I heard a woman on the local talk radio show call in yesterday and she said something interesting.

She is Republican. And she said she's sick and tired of Republicans getting blamed for simply doing what their constituents voted them in to do.

She suggested that the Republicans should just vote "abstain" on everything for a while. Let the Dems successfully pass everything they want. More taxes, more spending, etc.

And then see where the chips fall.

If taxing and spending cures the countries ills...then so be it. We all win.

But if it does what common sense sort of suggests (nobody ever borrowed their way out of debt...lol), then it would all be on Democrats hands.

I think she has a good point. If it works...great! If it doesn't then the Democrats get the blame and the Republicans are no longer blamed for blocking what they don't believe in (because they would have voted "abstain"...so they don't have any responsibility one way or another for the consequences)

I don't have any financial troubles.

And I certainly don't care about your financial troubles. Earn your own money and quit expecting someone else to take care of you.

They can't do that, it's un-American.. Cutting Defense budget would cut into Boeing, General Dynamics, Halliburton's, ect.ect.. profit margin..

Don't you know the only true solution is to cut funding for Schools, Social Services and lower the pay for civil servants? I mean really we can't actually ask the wealthy, whom pay less taxes than they ever have in the last 50 years to pay a little extra. That's just un-American god damnt!

I mean really, they have the right to lower taxes, because they are rich.. It's their right to pay lower taxes because they are Rich.. The only solution is to cut teacher's pay I mean really why do they really need to make 25-35k a year? Bunch of un-grateful teachers are what is causing this country to lose it's footing as the Only super power.