No you said 100k with full benefits and I had said earlier to think 50k is too much is nuts. So if you equate 50k with 100k with full benefits. Then 50 k must too be too much for those who put their life front of yours.Snippy ? I find it is insulting that when people think the rich should pay a whole 4 percent more are takers. Ive taken shit from no one.

I am sorry, but fuck you if that is what you think cops spend their time doing

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=2296766557537

I think you can understand what I'm actually saying. Don't be a fucking asshole to me Lloyd. I'm not a person who appreciates being talked to that way for no reason.

YES, there are cops who do that and only that. They are on traffic patrol and ride motorcycles and sit in neighborhoods and do NOTHING but give out traffic tickets. That's their division.

To pay that guy 50 grand is outrageous.

It's silly to think all cops are super heroes. It's silly to think all cops are worthless hacks.

I have no problem with great teachers, cops, or what have you making $100k or more. I have a problem with bad teachers, cops, or what have you making salaries they shouldn't have due to tenure, unions, or cronyism. Fire bad teachers and cops so can we can pay the deserving ones better, like any private institution does. Volume of workers does not equal "better."

I was raised in NY , our block was 70 percent cops. Some of the greatest guys and they all had really big balls. To go into those shit situations. The cop next door almost died from being shot. I have huge respect for those guys and even if most of their time was spent eating donuts. When shit goes down and they have put themselves in between that ,they got my respect and they deserve every dollar.

"welfare queens"

lol

I don't think ANYBODY should have gotten bailout money. But you are the same person who was screaming to the heavens about how it saved the auto industry. So make up your mind.
Sounds like the auto industry is a "welfare queen" too.

As far as the rich being "takers". I don't really even understand that line of thinking.

We are all just people. We work and we strive to make the most of our lives. I want to make as much money as I can. So do you. I guess that makes us "takers"?

Tony, you're espousing pure class warfare in this discussion. Pure and simple. You want to be a "taker" and take money from "rich" people and just give it to other people.

I don't think that's right.

But I do agree with you that NOBODY should be getting anything from the govt.
Not big companies, not you, not me, not my next door neighbor.

And we should cut the military down to the damn bone and stop fighting the Soviet Union in 1955. It's 2012 now.

THEN we could help people who actually need and deserve it without taxing people so hard.

Let's shrink the govt. down to a size and scope where it is exactly big enough to do the things it needs to do (and yes, "things it needs to do" includes social programs...I don't want to just stop them).

But all this endless talk of pro-govt./let's raise taxes to send to crooks in Washington is just not right.

Washington has enough of our money already. They are a den of thieves in Washington.

Four pages later and still 100% true... ;)

No, they don't "deserve" any such thing.

They CHOSE that job. And they know what the job calls for and the pay involved.

Nobody is forced to do anything. If they are an ENTRY LEVEL cop...the low man on the totem pole just starting out...there is no fucking way they should be making 50 grand a year at the taxpayers expense.

Maybe after a few years of GOOD service. But not at entry level.

Are you fucking high right now? The only difference between republicans and democrats is what they want to spend all this "free" money on.

And in DC a receptionist starts out at $27k on average. And you need a bachelor's degree to answer those phones. It's all on where you are.

I want to be a taker? Please explain to me how or is it you have no facts and just say what you are told. I take shit from no one. I work for every fucking dollar I make and I pay a nice chunk of taxes every year. No gifts here sorry to disappoint you. Actually you have gotten from the gov not me you had a kid.

Holy crap! That's outrageous!

When I visited D.C. it was all poor black people everywhere (1996)

We could barely get from one monument to the next without stumbling over black people putting on "shows" and singing and dancing, etc.

It was pretty fucked up.

And now it's all rich there? They must have cleaned that town up since I visited. It was disgraceful. And the security people told me and my then-wife not to be out after dark because of so much violence (D.C. has a strict gun law...and of course high rate of gun violence. lol )

I"m saying that you want to "take" from some people and give money to others. A "taker" if you will. And if you were to become rich because of your hard work would that make you a "taker" the way you are defining it?

And how does having a kid mean that I got anything from the govt? Or do you mean they TOOK less FROM me because I have a tax credit for having children?

I had heard it was scary from my dad years ago. We went in 2008 and it was nice,felt very safe.

Yep child tax credit. Why arent you out playing tonight? im home sick as a dog.

Somebody has to pay for the wars. The right love war until they got to pay the bill. Cutting some welfare isnt going to shit and these are people really getting shit. No one is living the high life on welfare.
walamrt pays shit and costs tax payers 400k for each store fed programs. To me thats a welfare queen not someone $200 a month in foodstamps to eat.

I'm going out in a little while to hit the strip clubs and have some fun.

But still Tony...you don't think that the govt. taking less from me than they want to is equal to the govt. giving me something do you?

Come on damn it! Be a little more outraged at the federal govt. and the things they are doing in this world! THEY are the bad guys. Not us.

Me and you didn't start wars. Me and you didn't do "experiments" on black people a few decades back. Me and you don't profit off of all that govt. spending...we aren't the cronies of any Senator or Representative.

Come back to real Liberalism with me Tony. Me and Bob Dylan...we don't trust no stinkin' govt.! :)

Thank you,you made me smile. I love ya bro

I'm with you on that.

But if you look back...the Dems and Repubs BOTH voted for the wars :(

And the Congress has kept funding it year after year after year.

Meanwhile, no country has invaded the United States since the "War Of 1812"

"Defense" spending? More like "Offense" spending.

That's my job. To get you fired up...and then bring you back down.
It's like "speedballing" First I get you coked up...then a nice shot of heroin to smooth you out. :1orglaugh

Actually I do believe it. I am someone who has always believed that you get what you pay for. I'm not saying teachers are living in poverty, but there are a lot of jobs a person can do that pays the same as teaching and are easier, less stressful and you don't have to put up with the constant shit you deal with.

I am seeing it first hand right now. My mom moved into an assisted living center about 6 months ago. About 95% of the care given there is done by CNA (they have an RN that oversees them). These people make between $10-$12 per hour. The job is difficult, they have a huge turnover and the lack of training they have is actually kind of scary. In the building my mom lives in there are about 12 CNAs on staff. Of the 12 that were working there when she moved in only about 5 of them are left and they have had several people that came in, worked for a month or two and moved on. If the company paid more and worked more on properly training people they would have less turnover and happier residents and the CNAs that they would get might actually be people who are interested in the profession and not just people who are trying to get a paycheck while looking for something better.

Would raising teachers' wages solve all the problems? Absolutely not. As I said before there are many other issues at play with our educational system, but I feel it would at least give the schools a larger pool from which to draw talented, committed teachers from.

You are correct. Household income actually has dropped about $4K per year between 2000-2011 half of that came in the last three years.

Right, I wasn't necessarily pointing that out to say that Clinton was great with the economy, but more as a way of showing how we had one big jump during an 8 year span then next to nothing and even losses during the remaining 28 years.

This right here is all you need to know. Capitalism you say? Ya fucking right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us...ions.html?_r=0

I think that Clinton indeed was great with the economy. :)

It would have been easy to fuck the tech and internet bubble up by getting greedy and trying to tax the hell out of it.

But with his leadership the govt. (for once) kept their hands off and it created an incredible boom for our economy and the world.

That's true. He was smart enough to basically stay out the way. . . of course some of the deregulation he signed into law did help cause the later collapse, but that could easily be seen as one of those hindsight is 20/20 things.

Yeah, the bills that caused the real mess we are in (the economy collapsing) were done during the Clinton years.

But it wasn't Clinton's fault.

It's actually the same exact guys in Congress and The Senate who are STILL there as lifetime politicians. They are the crooks who wrote and passed that shit.

And they are the ones screaming "It's Bush's fault" the loudest trying (and succeeding) to get people not to realize what they did.

Yep, they did it, then when the shit hit the fan the dodged it and now they are right back at it. Career politicians need to be a thing of he past. If they limit the president to 8 years in office, I don't see why they can't limit senators and representatives to the same.

It was one of those things where if the banks did things as intended all should have been fine. They got the sweet taste of the insane returns on sub-prime mortgages and exploited them every way they could think of.

Gotta think of the banks like junkies. Give them a little baggie and tell them it has to land all weekend and they will go off the deep end into a deep binge.

That is actually a spot on analogy of what happened. Banks like Washington Mutual suddenly found themselves able to give out mortgages to anyone who could sign their name then sell them off real fast before they went bad and make some quick money. Pretty soon there doing this as fast as possible not caring what harm may come if and when these mortgages went bad.

Not only that but they have a quota to meet to write those tickets.

I heard, so not sure, but with the higher tax Rates, they also had a TON more deductions.

If this has been proven wrong, how does taking more money from companies make them hire? Or giving the poor money to not work? See the problem with the welfare is if they make one dollar over a small amount they lose ALL benefits, it needs to be a sliding scale.

It is actually changing, but it can still depend on the state you are in. For example if you want to have housing assistance (Section 8) you have to at least have a part time job to help pay for it. Some states make you work in order to get welfare and other things like money for babysitters. With things like social security you can actually work and earn up to a certain amount and still draw your social security tax-free.

I never said anything about trickle down.. I said tax cuts for both rich and poor help stimulate the economy. Don't cherry pick a specific thing to make it fit something that I'm not even arguing for.

A very easy example of a tax credit that helps stimulate the economy is the federal first time buyers program which helps new home owners get into a house a bit easier.

Again as I mentioned before, it's all a balance act. Extreme tax cuts for just the rich at the expense of everyone else, as the right would love, would do little or nothing to stimulate the economy, simply because they don't have the same spending power as the middle & lower class. Meanwhile when it comes to the middle class it's the largest buying power in this country so any extra money in their hands stimulates the economy.

:2 cents:

In the modern world has a county *ever* taxed itself out of trouble?

And the 1% laughs on.

Survival of the fittest. Congrats to the winners.

elections have consequences. you right wingers bet your money on romney, and you lost.

You lost BIG. No fucking landslide, you got kicked in the nuts.

if romney won you could have just cut off all the hahahahahahas and spics and elderly and sick to your hearts content, and given the oil companies and farm corporations more subsidies, and started a few more wars and pumped billions of military welfare into your rich master's pockets - and nobody could have stopped you.

but you lost, and you lost BIG. so you dont get to say how things go now - you wanted to chop the poor and give more to teh rich, and the american people said no.

so man up and stop whining, and put some realistic cuts on the table.

cut defense, cut subsidies, cut corporate welfare, and clearly that uncle tom obama is going to give the younger generation of boomers a kick in the nuts and a shove under the bus.

you right wingers are always cryin', "boo hoo hoo, i dont like taxes, but I LOVE wars - I just dont want to pay for them.". buncha weakass crybabies.

From what I heard is voter machines were being confiscated. There is no safety in any politician. If you believe so then you need some serious help.

That's a load of shit. $45,000 in '97 is the equivalent of $64,900 today adjusted for inflation.. And that's without the cheap Chinese production lowering the cost of living - ie 65k today buys more shit. Yeah you'd have to live in assfuckville surrounded by trash to feel like a "king". It's was an ok middle class wage though. In '97 the average doctor's income was about $190,000 - four times as much.

Fwiw I wouldn't say teachers have it hard either, not easy and living large. I sure as fuck wouldn't do it for the money (double that for being a cop).. but not hard. If they were all like Finnish teachers with PHDs and whatnot and working hard it would be different, but there are too many structural issues to expect just throwing money at it would fix it.

But at the end of the day, the wealthy are still wealthy. They can enjoy a quality of life that most dream of. And even with Obama's stunning victory you are still, --- you.

Excellent article. Thanks for the link.

I had always thought Minte to be a good guy. Now he's coming across as a real douchebag.

Your boy lost, does that mean we have to spend the next four years listening to you whine and cry?

200.... :)

Oh please spare me the sob stories about school teachers - I agree they are important contributors to society BUT they are overpaid where I am from and their union consistently holds the government/taxpayers hostage with strike threats and strikes. I went to elementary school, high school and university. The vast majority of teachers/professors I had put in a very average effort and were very average overall. Let's not forget the 2 month long summer vacation, the 2 week Christmas vacation, the one week Spring break.

Here is a snapshot of what life is like in Canada regarding salaries for people working in the public sector versus private sector for people who have educations/training and qualify for good jobs.

It is obvious that the public sector in Canada is well paid, overpaid.

And the Canadian dollar is worth more than the US dollar :Oh crap

FACT - The average single income in Canada in 2011 was $46,000

Highlights
********

1)The AVERAGE salary for a fireman in St Catharines, a small US/CAN border city is $112,000 topping out at $128,000

2)The AVERAGE salary for a police constable in Durham Region, a suburb of Toronto, is $114,000 topping out at $178,000

3)The AVERAGE salary for a prison guard in Ontario, Canada is $109,000 topping out at $219,000!!!

4)The AVERAGE salary for a college/university professor at the University of Windsor, which is hardly Harvard, one of the lowest ranked academic universities in Canada actually, is $139,000 topping out at $313,000!!!

5)The AVERAGE salary for a high school teacher working for the Toronto Catholic School District, which somehow is paid for by the public, is $106,000 topping out at $122,000!

6)The AVERAGE salary for a registered nurse at Sunnybrook Hospital is $110,000 topping out at $164,000

Now look at the salaries for the public sector - a WestJet pilot makes $87,000, engineer at Toyota makes $83,000, project manager at Bombardier Aerospace makes $76,000

Nurses, cops, firefighters, teachers do serve the public in important jobs and they deserve to be paid "well" - but firemen making 3 TIMES what the average worker makes, university professors making 6 TIMES what the average worker makes, nurses making 3 TIMES what the average worker makes, high school teachers making 2-3 TIMES what the average worker makes ........ it's flat out wrong. It's a conspiracy and what happens in a socialist country.

of course idiots who bought houses they can't afford are 100% innocent in all this... no matter how the facts are spun, at the end of the day, they were the ones that signed their name on the dotted line agreeing to pay $XXXX per month and they were the ones that breached the contract by not paying later...

I'm still a good guy. If people weren't interested in these topics they wouldn't exist. Because Obama won, it does not mean we are all supposed to fall in line and be happy about another round of taxes without any consideration of spending cuts. After all, it is our money these people are entrusted with.

How many tubesites are killing the business threads does GFY need?