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Old 10-03-2010, 07:47 PM   #51
cjhmdm
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People who do not believe their freedoms are being diminished will only continue to live in denial when someone tries to tell them otherwise. Most Americans actually believe that our government is doing what's best for the people. This is a simple fact that you cannot, and will not change their minds.

But for those who don't know.. the "Patriot Act" goes against everything in the US constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
While there may be no documented laws stating otherwise, those who enforce the laws and act on the behalf of the government (police, military, et al) strip you of the right to free speech every single day.
Freedom of religion? Right. Ask any muslim if they feel that right has been or is being stomped on every single day.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Anti gun laws do one thing, and one thing only... they make it more and more difficult for upstanding citizens to have a means to defend themselves. This is not because they want guns off the street, but instead to strip more power and freedom from the citizens of the US.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
This one is up in the air because, on a whim, the government can declare that "war" is going on, and then declare and practice martial law.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Do I honestly need to explain the many, many, many ways this has been violated?

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Search youtube for "police brutality".

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Hint: there are "concentration camps" inside the US, sanctioned by the US government.

I could go on for days, but I'd be wasting my time. Those of you who truly believe you have freedom, I must say you need to wake up.

Last edited by cjhmdm; 10-03-2010 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:48 PM   #52
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again, it was a simple travel alert.
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by theking View Post
I for one am not aware of any loss of freedom since 9/11. I do the very same things that I did prior to 9/11.
ehh? you missed the patriot act, didnt ya? you LOST a lotta freedom free speech? lmao - LOST already ...
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Last edited by Overload; 10-03-2010 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:57 PM   #54
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ehh? you missed the patriot act, didnt ya? you LOST a lotta freedom free speech? lmao - LOST already ...
fyi, speech has been limited for 100 years now. look up Schenck v. United States for starters
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjhmdm View Post
People who do not believe their freedoms are being diminished will only continue to live in denial when someone tries to tell them otherwise. Most Americans actually believe that our government is doing what's best for the people. This is a simple fact that you cannot, and will not change their minds.

But for those who don't know.. the "Patriot Act" goes against everything in the US constitution.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
While there may be no documented laws stating otherwise, those who enforce the laws and act on the behalf of the government (police, military, et al) strip you of the right to free speech every single day.
Freedom of religion? Right. Ask any muslim if they feel that right has been or is being stomped on every single day.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Anti gun laws do one thing, and one thing only... they make it more and more difficult for upstanding citizens to have a means to defend themselves. This is not because they want guns off the street, but instead to strip more power and freedom from the citizens of the US.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
This one is up in the air because, on a whim, the government can declare that "war" is going on, and then declare and practice martial law.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Do I honestly need to explain the many, many, many ways this has been violated?

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Search youtube for "police brutality".

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Hint: there are "concentration camps" inside the US, sanctioned by the US government.

I could go on for days, but I'd be wasting my time. Those of you who truly believe you have freedom, I must say you need to wake up.
You clearly are not the sharpest knife in the drawer...now are you?
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:04 PM   #56
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ehh? you missed the patriot act, didnt ya? you LOST a lotta freedom free speech? lmao - LOST already ...
Which patriot act are you speaking about...as it has been revised by Congress more than once...and parts of it have been knocked down by the Supreme Court. The original Patriot Act did not affect my life in anyway what so ever...and certainly not the revised Patriot Act.

What freedom do you feel you lost?
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:32 PM   #57
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At least Stratford Upon Avon will be quiet...
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:46 PM   #58
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Guess I'm not going sight seeing this week lol
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:48 PM   #59
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who reads those anyways ?
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:54 PM   #60
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

Free speech zone :D

I like the idea of freedom of speach in the USA
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:06 AM   #61
Tasty1
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I am scared, i think we all die the comming 100 years.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:09 AM   #62
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The Government can not really win either way. Issue the warning and everyone bitches or dont and if anything does happen then everyone bitches.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:35 AM   #63
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LIES LIES LIES



Hamburg, Germany (CNN) -- A group of jihadists from the German city of Hamburg are alleged to be at the heart of the recent al Qaeda plot to launch co-ordinated terrorist attacks against European cities, according to European intelligence officials.

The plan prompted the U.S. State Department to issue a Europe-wide security advisory for Americans traveling in Europe.

Japan issued a similar alert Monday, citing the warnings issued by the United States and by Britain, which raised the level highest for France and Germany. Western intelligence officials say they learned about the plot when Ahmed Sidiqi, a German citizen of Afghan descent was arrested in Afghanistan in July and taken to the U.S. airbase at Bagram for questioning. He has not been charged and intelligence sources in Germany say he is co-operating with the investigation. In early 2009, Sidiqi and 10 others left Hamburg for the tribal areas of Pakistan -- where most joined a jihadist group fighting U.S. and coalition forces across the border in Afghanistan, according to German intelligence officials. Sidiqi told American interrogators that at least one member of his travel group was to be a "foot-soldier" in the plot, with other members of the group helping to plan the attacks, a European counter-terrorism official told CNN.

Sidiqi has been fully cooperating with American authorities, German intelligence sources say. Every day, they say, information emerges from Sidiqi that provides a "new piece to the puzzle." German authorities expect to be given access to Sidiqi in the next few days, according to the sources, and until they do so will not be able to verify his claims.

Over the weekend, CNN spoke with Sidiqi's sister in Hamburg, who said his family was shocked by the allegations against him. She said Sidiqi told his family in 2009 he was traveling to Afghanistan to start a new life with his wife. They say they last heard from him shortly before his arrest, when he phoned to tell them that he would soon be coming home because he missed his family, said his sister, who described him as a devout family-loving man.

German officials say the Hamburg group were all recruited from the Taiba mosque in Hamburg. In the 1990s. The same mosque -- then
called Al Quds - was attended by the lead hijacker in the 9/11 attacks, Mohammed Atta. A friend of Atta from those days has emerged as a crucial figure in the new plot, European intelligence officials tell CNN. Naamen Meziche, 40, a French citizen of Algerian descent, worked to persuade a number of young men praying at the Taiba mosque to fight Jihad, according to the officials. His whereabouts are unknown; he is thought to be in the Afghan/Pakistan border area. Meziche's wife told CNN that he was overseas. According to a European counter-terrorism official, Meziche had longstanding connections to al Qaeda dating to the 1990s that he was able to rekindle once he arrived in Pakistan's tribal areas.

The group coalesced late in 2008, and most of them had left for Pakistan before authorities had a chance to prevent them, according to German intelligence officials, despite constant surveillance of suspected militants at the Taiba mosque. The group used several different routes to get to Pakistan, some going overland through Iran and some traveling by air via the Gulf. Managing the logistics, according to German intelligence officials, was a man known as Asadullah M., 52, a Hamburg resident of Afghan origin. He is also thought to be in the Pakistani tribal areas along the Afghan border.

Eight members of the travel group, including two wives of the militants, eventually made it to the tribal areas of Pakistan, where they joined the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), an Uzbek militant group with strong ties to al Qaeda, according to German intelligence officials.
One member of the group was Rami Makanesi, 25, a German of Syrian descent. Another was Shahab Dashti, a German citizen of Iranian descent. He appeared in an IMU video in late 2009. Wielding a knife and gun, he urged other Germans to join in the jihad against American forces in Afghanistan. Several other Germans appeared in the video and were filmed firing weapons in what appeared to be live fire exercises. Several scenes featured what appeared to be the group storming enemy positions with rockets and guns, the type of combat skills that Western counter-terrorism officials fear could be used in Western cities in a "Mumbai-style" attack. In November 2008, more than 160 people were killed in an assault on hotels and other "soft targets" in Mumbai by members of Lashkar e Tayyiba, a terror group based in Pakistan.

One European counter-terrorism official says Sidiqi told his interrogators that Meziche assumed a planning role in the new plot -- assisted by Asadullah M -- which Osama Bin Laden himself approved. Sidiqi said that Dashti, who appeared in the IMU video, was tasked to be a "foot-soldier" in the plot against Europe, a European counter-terrorism told CNN. German intelligence officials believe Dashti is still at large in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

Dashti, who previously had a Westernized lifestyle, started to attend the Taiba mosque in Hamburg after converting from Shia to Sunni Islam, in part, German intelligence officials believe, to distance himself from a domineering father. Family members reached by CNN over the weekend believe he was "fooled and tricked" by extremists into going to Pakistan. His wife traveled with him to Pakistan and is still believed to be in the Afghan-Pakistan border region.

The Imam of the Taiba mosque in Hamburg is Mamoun Darkazanli, a German businessman originally from Syria. The 9/11 Commission identified him as having links to al Qaeda financiers. He was charged in 2003 with membership of al Qaeda by Spanish authorities, but as a German citizen was not extradited. He faces no charges in Germany. Repeated attempts by CNN to reach Darkazanli for a response on the latest plot have been unsuccessful.

In the years after 9/11 the Taiba mosque became a magnet for al Qaeda sympathizers across Europe. "They all wanted to come and pray where Mohammed Atta prayed," a German intelligence official told CNN. Hamburg authorities shut down the mosque a few weeks after Sidiqi was arrested. The decision to shut the mosque was difficult, say officials in Hamburg, because the presence in one place of so many militants made it easier to monitor their activities. But they say the mosque had become a recruiting center for jihadists across Europe. Several militants now back in Germany who failed to make it to Pakistan's tribal areas are of continuing concern to German intelligence services, who have kept them under observation.

"Their greatest enemy is the United States," a German intelligence official told CNN.
A recent report by Hamburg's intelligence services stated that 45 jihadists lived freely and openly in the city, from where they actively supported al Qaeda. High evidence thresholds under the German legal system have made it very difficult for authorities to make arrests, German officials told CNN. In addition to those actively supporting al Qaeda. another 200 Islamists living in the city are described as having "violent tendencies."

German intelligence officials told CNN that like many European cities, Hamburg faces a challenge from Islamist extremists, but that some cities, like London, face greater challenges. They say they are increasing resources to confront the problem of Islamist extremism. They say that radicalization is on the rise because of the growth of German-language extremist websites and the revolution in social media.

A senior German counter-terrorism source told CNN that some 200 individuals have left the country since 9/11 to receive training with militant groups in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region, and that dozens have returned. According to German intelligence officials, the uptick in U.S. drone strikes in the tribal areas of Pakistan has not staunched the enthusiasm of German militants wishing to travel there.
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