Quran burning protestor fired by government - GoFuckYourself.com

cambaby · 09-15-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

The protester who burned pages from the Koran outside a planned mosque near Ground Zero has been fired from NJTransit, sources and authorities said Tuesday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...j_transit.html

I guess New Jersey doesnt believe in freedom of speech, well thats one state I wont ever do business in.

SykkBoy · 09-15-2010, 02:51 PM

What are you talking about? He exercised his right to free speech...he wasn't arrested for it...he also knew about the code of ethics that were part of his job and still exercised his right to free speech...good for him. By the way, we all have freedom of speech and we also have to understand that by exercising that right, we might piss someone off, someone who signs our paychecks.

I'm one of the biggest supporters of free speech there is, but I'm also realistic that when we exercise that right, we just might upset someone with what we've said.

If he was one of those "crazy arabs" burning an american flag and got fired for it, would you still feel the same way?

PornMD · 09-15-2010, 02:55 PM

Let's face it, if it was an employee who got fired for talking shit against Christianity or burning a flag, cambaby would be cheering and slutboat would have posted this thread. Same ol' shit.

I have both on ignore but don't need to see their posts to know what they posted.

DWB · 09-15-2010, 02:56 PM

That's how you create a home grown terrorist.

EZRhino · 09-15-2010, 02:59 PM

So much for freedom of speech. Hope he sues and becomes a millionaire.

iSpyCams · 09-15-2010, 03:03 PM

Wasn't he in another state when he did it? I fail to see how this has anything to do with his job.

Unless he was wearing his uniform or badge or something when it happened.

Rochard · 09-15-2010, 03:15 PM

By law, he has the right to burn whatever the fuck he wants. At the same time, his employer, by law, has the right to decide that he is no longer employable due to his conduct outside of his job.

It's like the police officer who was fired for doing porn. The police department has the right to decide it's not in their best interests for someone who produces porn not to represent them, in the same way that a someone running for President doesn't want to admit he smoked pot when he was tweny.

SykkBoy · 09-15-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

By law, he has the right to burn whatever the fuck he wants. At the same time, his employer, by law, has the right to decide that he is no longer employable due to his conduct outside of his job.

It's like the police officer who was fired for doing porn. The police department has the right to decide it's not in their best interests for someone who produces porn not to represent them, in the same way that a someone running for President doesn't want to admit he smoked pot when he was tweny.

Exactly, this guy knew what the code of ethics were for his job when he took the job and willfully broke those...as bullshit as they may be, he wasn't ignorant to the code of ethics.

While I would defend his right to burn the koran, the american flag, a book of poems, a copy of "Cool as Ice" DVD, doesn't matter...the right would be defended, but the rights of his employer should also be defended....freedom of speech isn't without it's hitches, but it's what makes them important and more importantly, if you really want to defend your freedom of speech, you better be prepared for the cost of that freedom.

Bill8 · 09-15-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cambaby

I guess New Jersey doesnt believe in freedom of speech, well thats one state I wont ever do business in.

thats perfectly reasonable. we all have the right to decide where we will do business, and with whom.

i suggest going over your purchases and expenses and making sure nothing you buy has any relation with new jersey.

iSpyCams · 09-15-2010, 03:26 PM

Wow. I guess I've been living in a semi socialist country for so long I forgot that in the rest of the world hiring an employee is not the same as adopting a child.

I would never be able to get away with firing someone for something like that without providing a generous severance package.

Max Cannon · 09-15-2010, 03:38 PM

This is the deal. If he wasn't allowed to burn the koran at all - that is lighting a match and throwing it on the book - then that is a violation against Freedom of speech.

But he was allowed to light a match and throw it on the book. <-that's his freedom of speech right there

The other side is that the employer also has a freedom of speech/expression as well, just like him, which they also excercised - by firing him

Quentin · 09-15-2010, 03:42 PM

As a legal matter, this isn't as cut and dry as you might think, regardless of what the transit autority's code of ethics, or his specific employment contract might state.

Remember -- if the contract he signed with the Transit Authority violates state and/or federal law, or the state and/or federal constitution, the portions of that contract that are in violation are essentially unenforceable. (This is a basic and central principle of contract law).

If he was fired under an unenforceable clause of the contract, that is very likely to be considered wrongful termination by the court.

Rather than try (and probably fail) to break it down myself, I'll leave that to UCLA law professor and respected 1st Amendment scholar Eugene Volokh. The text of Volokh's post on this situation is quoted below. To see the post in its original context click here.

Quote:

The relevant First Amendment test for when the government may fire an employee for off-duty expression on a matter of public concern (such as the expression here) is unfortunately quite vague: The government may restrict such speech, but only if the restriction is ?necessary for their employers to operate efficiently and effectively? (with ?necessary? being read a bit loosely). It?s hard for me to see much of an argument that Fenton?s expression interferes with the employer?s effectiveness by undermining public confidence in the employer; Fenton isn?t a spokesman for the employer, or in a position where the public must be able to count on his fairness in exercising discretion with regard to members of the public (e.g., a police officer)

The one argument I can see the government potentially persuasively making is that Fenton?s expression might lead to a risk of terrorist attack on NJ Transit trains; such a ?heckler?s veto? might be permissible when it comes to the government?s actions as employer, as opposed to the government?s actions as sovereign policing the speech of private people. But if that?s so, then unfortunately it?s one other item we have to add to the growing Extremist Muslim Thugs Win file; and unfortunately the bigger the file gets, the more incentive the thugs ? including at some point thugs of other ideological stripes ? have to keep being violent and threatening violence.

If you can point me to the relevant part of ?New Jersey Transit?s code of ethics,? I?d love to see it; a quick search through the NJ Transit site didn?t uncover this document. Thanks to Jeff Heldman for the pointer.

1st Amendment jurisprudence is many things... simple and straightforward aren't among those things.

Bill8 · 09-15-2010, 03:49 PM

I think the aclu might be happy to fight the case for this guy.

howardzinn · 09-15-2010, 03:52 PM

Sykkbouy nailed it, I guess you guys didn't fully comprehend his post? he didn't get arrested for burning the Qur'an, he didn't go to jail. He was fired from his job because he CHOSE to violate the code of ethics and they CHOSE to fire him.

If he had burnt the flag or a bible while wearing a turban and stomping around ground zero would you have been happy about it? No? That's why he got fired, the employer doesn't want employees acting like douchebags and burning people's holy books or flags. He can find another job and continue burning Qur'ans.

Tempest · 09-15-2010, 03:54 PM

Freedom of speech/expresion always comes with consequences.. People need to realize that when you work for a big company, you have to be a good little drone or you put your job at risk.

topnotch, standup guy · 09-15-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

Wasn't he in another state when he did it? I fail to see how this has anything to do with his job.

Unless he was wearing his uniform or badge or something when it happened.

Yeah, but what he did wasn't politically correct and therein lies the rub.

Having said that, I hope he gets himself a good lawyer and sues the bastards.

.

ianlester · 09-15-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SykkBoy

What are you talking about? He exercised his right to free speech...he wasn't arrested for it...he also knew about the code of ethics that were part of his job and still exercised his right to free speech...good for him. By the way, we all have freedom of speech and we also have to understand that by exercising that right, we might piss someone off, someone who signs our paychecks.

I'm one of the biggest supporters of free speech there is, but I'm also realistic that when we exercise that right, we just might upset someone with what we've said.

If he was one of those "crazy arabs" burning an american flag and got fired for it, would you still feel the same way?

I 100% agree with you.

Finally some common sense on this board.

topnotch, standup guy · 09-15-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max Cannon

The other side is that the employer also has a freedom of speech/expression as well, just like him, which they also excercised - by firing him

Okay, that would mean, for example, that I can fire anybody who works for me and later reveals themselves to be a Republican, right?

I mean, let's say that I really, really don't like the Republican party?

.

fatfoo · 09-15-2010, 05:10 PM

I think religion is supposed to work to reduce violence.

cambaby · 09-15-2010, 08:48 PM

Are you comparing what he did to illegal acts?
You equate Quran burning to doing porn and smoking pot wtfffff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

By law, he has the right to burn whatever the fuck he wants. At the same time, his employer, by law, has the right to decide that he is no longer employable due to his conduct outside of his job.

It's like the police officer who was fired for doing porn. The police department has the right to decide it's not in their best interests for someone who produces porn not to represent them, in the same way that a someone running for President doesn't want to admit he smoked pot when he was tweny.

cambaby · 09-15-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy

Okay, that would mean, for example, that I can fire anybody who works for me and later reveals themselves to be a Republican, right? I mean, let's say that I really, really don't like the Republican party? .

Apparently the government of New Jersey thinks that burning a Quran is an immoral act, which is kind of odd considering there is supposed to be separation between church and state.

This guy could sue, there is no doubt about it.

tony286 · 09-15-2010, 08:55 PM

I read the article its amazing how many people dont understand what freedom of speech means.

directfiesta · 09-15-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howardzinn

He can find another job and continue burning Qur'ans.

He should apply at Fox News ...

EZRhino · 09-15-2010, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

I think the aclu might be happy to fight the case for this guy.

Sounds like he is white and christian, ACLU wont take the case.

directfiesta · 09-16-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Sounds like he is white and christian, ACLU wont take the case.

wrong again .. but you are used to it ...

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...587&topic=2552

Dirty Dane · 09-16-2010, 09:09 AM

Sucks for him.

Quentin · 09-16-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Sounds like he is white and christian, ACLU wont take the case.

Sounds like another reiteration of a common misconception about the ACLU, to me. Among other things, the ACLU actually supports Christians in their right to protest the ACLU itself.

You may not like them, and I often disagree with the positions they take, but I don't question the ACLU's broad commitment to defending free speech rights.

I know some attorneys at the ACLU who are among the most committed professionals I've met in any field. This doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with the arguments they make, but I still respect their conviction and integrity.

Bill8 · 09-16-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZRhino

Sounds like he is white and christian, ACLU wont take the case.

you're a lazy dupe who is clearly incapable of research, and probably reason.

google is the friend of the simple minded.

ACLU defends the Ku Klux Klan

http://www.google.com/search?source=...2d49f7a278c83c

Recent ACLU involvement in religious liberty cases include:

September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show.

August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from prison.

May 25, 2005: ACLU sues Wisconsin prison on behalf of a Muslim woman who was forced to remove her headscarf in front of male guards and prisoners.

February 2005: ACLU of Pennsylvania successfully defends the right of an African American Evangelical church to occupy a church building purchased in a predominantly white parish.

December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors.

December 14, 2004: ACLU joins Pennsylvania parents in filing first-ever challenge to "Intelligent Design" instruction in public schools.

November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas.

November 12, 2004: ACLU of Georgia files a lawsuit on behalf of parents challenging evolution disclaimers in science textbooks.

November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school.

August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln.

July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.

June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit.

June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County.

May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries.

March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks.

February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages.

October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church.

July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school.

April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating.

January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run "anti-Santa" ads in Boston subways."

HERE ARE SOME EVEN MORE RECENT ACLU-RELIGIOUS FREEDOM CASES:

ACLU & Veterans Win Right to Post Religious Symbol on Headstones (4/23/2007)

ACLU of Rhode Island in Appeals Court Overturns Ban on Christian Preacher in Prison (4/9/2007)

ACLU of Louisiana Affirms Christian Protester's Free Speech Rights (01/29/2007)
over a year ago · Report

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...587&topic=2552

09-15-2010, 02:51 PM	#2
SykkBoy Jesus loves bacon Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Sin City, Motherfucker Posts: 19,969	What are you talking about? He exercised his right to free speech...he wasn't arrested for it...he also knew about the code of ethics that were part of his job and still exercised his right to free speech...good for him. By the way, we all have freedom of speech and we also have to understand that by exercising that right, we might piss someone off, someone who signs our paychecks. I'm one of the biggest supporters of free speech there is, but I'm also realistic that when we exercise that right, we just might upset someone with what we've said. If he was one of those "crazy arabs" burning an american flag and got fired for it, would you still feel the same way? __________________ Support my new movie “The Second Coming”

09-15-2010, 02:55 PM	#3
PornMD Mainstream Businessman Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 9,291	Let's face it, if it was an employee who got fired for talking shit against Christianity or burning a flag, cambaby would be cheering and slutboat would have posted this thread. Same ol' shit. I have both on ignore but don't need to see their posts to know what they posted. __________________ Want to crush it in mainstream with Facebook ads? Hit me up.

09-15-2010, 03:15 PM	#7
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 74,563	By law, he has the right to burn whatever the fuck he wants. At the same time, his employer, by law, has the right to decide that he is no longer employable due to his conduct outside of his job. It's like the police officer who was fired for doing porn. The police department has the right to decide it's not in their best interests for someone who produces porn not to represent them, in the same way that a someone running for President doesn't want to admit he smoked pot when he was tweny. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

09-15-2010, 03:38 PM	#11
Max Cannon Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 277	This is the deal. If he wasn't allowed to burn the koran at all - that is lighting a match and throwing it on the book - then that is a violation against Freedom of speech. But he was allowed to light a match and throw it on the book. <-that's his freedom of speech right there The other side is that the employer also has a freedom of speech/expression as well, just like him, which they also excercised - by firing him __________________ cliquepay at gmail dot com Last edited by Max Cannon; 09-15-2010 at 03:39 PM..

09-15-2010, 05:10 PM	#19
fatfoo ICQ:649699063 Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 27,763	I think religion is supposed to work to reduce violence. __________________ Send me an email: [email protected]

09-15-2010, 02:56 PM	#4
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	That's how you create a home grown terrorist.

09-15-2010, 02:59 PM	#5
EZRhino Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: couch Posts: 6,258	So much for freedom of speech. Hope he sues and becomes a millionaire.

09-15-2010, 03:03 PM	#6
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	Wasn't he in another state when he did it? I fail to see how this has anything to do with his job. Unless he was wearing his uniform or badge or something when it happened.

09-15-2010, 03:26 PM	#10
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	Wow. I guess I've been living in a semi socialist country for so long I forgot that in the rest of the world hiring an employee is not the same as adopting a child. I would never be able to get away with firing someone for something like that without providing a generous severance package.

09-15-2010, 03:49 PM	#13
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	I think the aclu might be happy to fight the case for this guy.

09-15-2010, 03:52 PM	#14
howardzinn Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 76	Sykkbouy nailed it, I guess you guys didn't fully comprehend his post? he didn't get arrested for burning the Qur'an, he didn't go to jail. He was fired from his job because he CHOSE to violate the code of ethics and they CHOSE to fire him. If he had burnt the flag or a bible while wearing a turban and stomping around ground zero would you have been happy about it? No? That's why he got fired, the employer doesn't want employees acting like douchebags and burning people's holy books or flags. He can find another job and continue burning Qur'ans.

09-15-2010, 03:54 PM	#15
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	Freedom of speech/expresion always comes with consequences.. People need to realize that when you work for a big company, you have to be a good little drone or you put your job at risk.

09-15-2010, 08:55 PM	#22
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	I read the article its amazing how many people dont understand what freedom of speech means.

09-16-2010, 09:09 AM	#26
Dirty Dane Sick Fuck Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: www Posts: 9,491	Sucks for him.