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04-23-2012, 10:58 AM | #1251 | |
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04-23-2012, 03:49 PM | #1252 | |||||||||||||
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The towers were made to suffer catastrophic damage and support compromise from multiple sides and even commercial airliner impacts. How do you validate your statement? Quote:
If the design was so weak that removing "one of the supports and the tower falls down" was possible, it wouldn't have been built. The core was not destroyed. The core was likely not even damaged. Read it up. The outer columns cross-supported each other and were bolstered by undamaged core columns. Eventually, the fire should have gone out and left a steel armature, not crushed every last bit of material to granular substance. :D
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04-23-2012, 03:55 PM | #1253 | |
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But it wasn't "one of the supports" that was removed. It was dozens.
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04-23-2012, 05:10 PM | #1254 |
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Currently Sober still likes poo.
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04-23-2012, 06:17 PM | #1255 |
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With those who are still clinging onto the official 9/11 story at this advanced stage, I believe the best approach to convert them would be challenge the trust they have for Western authority, if that trust can be damaged, then they will be able to reconsider 9/11 in an open fashion, instead of feeling that they already know the conclusion before they've started investigating
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04-23-2012, 06:29 PM | #1256 | |
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"trust for western authority"? Really? So if someone doesn't agree with your objective, well reasoned opinion based solely on the evidence (according to you), then a person is "clinging to the official story"? This is the choice? Any party in this discussion/debate can only be delusional or brainwashed?
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04-23-2012, 09:21 PM | #1257 | |
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For example, I don't believe JFK died the way he died. I question the Gulf Of Tonkin, Bay Of Pigs, or the USS Liberty incident. I bet half of what our government tells us is far from the truth. But that doesn't mean I have to question everything I'm told. A fucking airliner hit a skyscraper that is 200 feet wide - and hollow. That in itself is the only fact you need to know.
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04-24-2012, 12:10 AM | #1258 | |
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Holograms, missiles, bombs, 1000's of people involved, planes dissapearing, etc. Believe it or you = sheep. You are mind controlled if you believe a group of muslim terrorists flew into a tower which resulted in the collapse of that tower. Because that is IMPOSSIBLE you know! Any other totally insane theory ofcourse is possible, as long it's a secret conspiracy by the government. |
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04-24-2012, 12:11 AM | #1259 | |
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Don't you know the truth is out there! It's the biggest secret conspiracy in the history of civilization but it's right there on Youtube. |
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04-24-2012, 02:18 PM | #1260 |
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04-27-2012, 08:53 AM | #1261 |
I'd rather be on my boat.
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04-27-2012, 10:56 AM | #1262 |
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04-27-2012, 02:35 PM | #1263 | ||
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:D
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04-27-2012, 04:42 PM | #1264 | |
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The "tube within a tube" description is deceptive at best. :D
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04-27-2012, 06:09 PM | #1265 | ||
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I mean, seriously, take a look at this picture? How in the world do you expect that not to collapse?
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04-27-2012, 06:39 PM | #1266 | |
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There was physically no support from the inner core to the outer wall: It's pretty simple: A huge airplane destroyed an entire side of perimeter support across ten floors, damaged the core, and further fire weakened it. From wikipedia: After the planes hit the buildings, but before the buildings collapsed, the cores of both towers consisted of three distinct sections. Above and below the impact floors, the cores consisted of what were essentially two rigid boxes; the steel in these sections was undamaged and had undergone no significant heating. The section between them, however, had sustained significant damage and, though they were not hot enough to melt it, the fires were weakening the structural steel. As a result, the core columns were slowly being crushed, sustaining plastic and creep deformation from the weight of higher floors. As the top section tried to move downward, however, the hat truss redistributed the load to the perimeter columns. Meanwhile, the perimeter columns and floors were also being weakened by the heat of the fires, and as the floors began to sag they pulled the exterior walls inwards. The building fell because a fucking airplane destroyed a large percentage of the support and the building was unable to support it's own weight. It's pretty simple. Take out 70 percent of my load bearing walls on one side of my house, the second floor is coming down.
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04-28-2012, 09:22 AM | #1267 | ||||||||
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So one side out of four is compromised, the weight above drives down, and all four sides of all compromised floors and all four sides of all the uncompromised floors below give out all at once? That's not even logical. Your one-side of four theory would indicate the top-dropping section would tilt to one side and topple, relieving the other three sides of the weight load and thus not leading to global collapse. Quote:
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On top of this ridiculous contention, the increasingly thickened core column support also disappeared in dust. If the official version were logical, wouldn't this "spindle" have remained? It wasn't grated to shreds by the only part of the airplane massive and hard enough to sever them - the engines - from top to bottom zig-zag style... Quote:
And if there were absolutely no support, no floor, how did those people get to the airliner impact zone/hole in the outer wall? Quote:
The core was not damaged - though NIST theorized that perhaps three of the fifty core columns may have been damaged or weakened in one tower, and further theorized that up to five were damaged in the other. The report also mentioned temperatures hot enough to weaken the steel may have occurred for several minutes, but the majority of the fire temperatures were on average a little over half that requirement. Even in a foundry, this highest-temperature requirement needs to be applied in a controlled manner for up to three hours before the result is achieved. Quote:
The building was made to support it's own weight beyond the extrapolated damage in the NIST report. Like the NIST report, the Wikipedia explains a part of what happened - which it probably did, it's logical. But they entirely avoid tying together the elements leading up to collapse initiation and the collapse event itself. They leave it up to the reader to assume a conclusion they did not make, that they avoided entirely. Quote:
:D
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04-30-2012, 08:10 AM | #1268 | |
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04-30-2012, 08:53 AM | #1269 | |||||||
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They floated in the air - they were hooked up the outer column and the core, no place else. Quote:
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However, the building was not designed to survive an impact, have the outer perimeter destroyed and weakened, and then it wasn't design to have multiple floors crashing down. Could it support the extra weight? Maybe? But not when most of the support was weakened and the weight was crashing down the way it was. __________________________________________________ ____________ Media Guy, you can sit here and debate this all you want. The truth is an airplane slice through the buildings, destroying a percentage of the column support and instantly weakening all of the perimeter. The core was also damaged. The damage to the support, the fire that continued to weaken everything eventually lead to one or more floors collapsing onto the floor before it, which was unable to support the load because it too was damaged. It was only a matter of time before it fell.
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04-30-2012, 08:53 AM | #1270 |
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What about it? I've never given it much thought.
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04-30-2012, 09:01 AM | #1271 |
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04-30-2012, 09:03 AM | #1272 |
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http://loveforlife.com.au/node/5656
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04-30-2012, 09:25 AM | #1273 | |
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What did Israel have to gain by 9/11? Did Israel want us to invade Afghanistan? How did that benefit them? Or anyone for that matter.
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04-30-2012, 09:50 AM | #1274 | ||||||||||
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An hour-long fire would not weaken steel unless it was approximately 6 times the reported temperatures. Quote:
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While one compromised suppot/floor would be unable to resist the load of the upper 20 or so stories, the lower 80 stories would be able to provide resistance; would be able to hold out more than 1/10th of a second per down-crash, and would most likely have sent the downward-moving mass the way of least resistance. Actually, neither have I, but it was the one conspiracy theory you didn't mention :P It was also the instigator of the first "Patriot Act".... :D
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04-30-2012, 09:54 AM | #1275 |
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Too bad someone wasn't there to call these men conspiracy theorists and retards. These guys were obviously loons. He even said other there might be bombs in other buildings.
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04-30-2012, 11:04 AM | #1276 |
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Okay, I listened to the first fifteen seconds and they are talking about explosions in the lobby before the building collapsed. YOU THINK? Fireballs that traveled nearly one hundred floors, fires everywhere... Of course shit was exploding.
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04-30-2012, 11:10 AM | #1277 | |
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Your fireballs are hypothetical, and could not take out basements. Explain those. The possible fireballs that you believe in would have descended the elevator shafts (possibly) and taken out either one of the sky-lobbies, the lobby or blown out the doors of the sub-basements. Not all of these, and certainly not the structural bases of the basements. A fireball is a ball of fire, not an explosive event. How could it have taken out (for example) the huge marble tiles of the walls in the actual labbies? No explanation for that, if you insist on believing the government conspiracy theory.... :D
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04-30-2012, 11:18 AM | #1278 |
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Odigo says workers were warned of attack
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...attack-1.70579 "Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack. "
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04-30-2012, 11:19 AM | #1279 |
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04-30-2012, 11:25 AM | #1280 |
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04-30-2012, 11:34 AM | #1281 | ||||||||||
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And no, nothing would have "tilted to the side". The floors fell down. Not sideways. Quote:
This is where your points fail. Your making it sounds like the core magically disappeared, but that would have happened no matter what. Even if the building was brought down entirely by explosives, the core and everything else would have been pulverised and turned into debris. Quote:
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Saying they were different is like saying one car hit another car head on at 70mph opposed to one car hitting the passenger door head on at 70mph. Very different, but you still end up with the same result. Planes crashed into the towers, destroying the support and hitting the core. Quote:
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My car is designed with a crumble zone so that I can survive a car crash. However, that doesn't guarantee that I will survive a car crash. The buildings were designed to survive a plane crash, but not the kind of plane crash that happened. They were designed to survive an impact of a plan traveling at 300 mph - not a plane intentionally slammed into a building at almost twice that speed. And the towers did in fact survive the impact. It was the impact and the resulting fires that took down the towers, not the impact itself. Quote:
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Do you mean to tell me that the US government bombed buildings to enact a law? What exactly did that law accomplish? Can they read my email? Could they read my email before? Now? I'm sure they can.
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04-30-2012, 11:40 AM | #1282 |
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Hey Rockhard - next time you're in Montreal, you should come out with us for a beer... or 10...
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04-30-2012, 11:44 AM | #1283 | |||
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And no matter what... Let's just say that towers were taken down by explosives. Why would there be explosions in the basement an hour before the towers fell? Quote:
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No one ever said anything about taking out huge marble tiles or walls in the lobbies. In fact, the lobbies were pretty much intact after the fireball. The glass was pretty much blown out, but because there was little to burn in the lobby - which was like four stories tall and for the most part empty - it quickly burned itself out.
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04-30-2012, 12:45 PM | #1284 | |||||||||||||
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The unlikely NIST theory is that the inner buttresses between the core and perimeter began to "sag" because somehow low temperatures for a short amount of time weakened the steel which they were made of. The official conspiracy theory states the perimeter columns bent inwards, not "outwards" as you claim. Regardless, this would not "pull" all perimeter columns all the way down to their undamaged and un-weakened base 80 stories below. Quote:
Exactly correct. Most floors were uncompromised and structurally sound. Quote:
Out of three buildings, you'd think at least one would tilt and fall sideways, but none did. One did start to fall sideways, but against all probability got "eaten up" and consumed in the vertical destruction. There's nothing in these "collapses" that smacks of "origanic" or natural collapse... Quote:
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But your officially sanctioned theory would have it that the building fell by happenstance, and that the core somehow was pulverized along with the "accidental" destruction of the exterior columns and inner floors. Quote:
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The buildings suffered very different impacts. Quote:
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What I'm saying is that it would require exceedingly hotter temperatures than those accounted for by the government hypothesis to produce the results we were witness to... Quote:
Another thing is the actual speed of the airliner - according to pilots who disagree with the official theory, commercial airliners couldn't reach or maintain such a speed at this elevation and air pressure. It's unlikely that they were actually going as fast as reported, and even if it was possible they wouldn't have compromised the entire structure's solidity. Quote:
There's no reason - and there were no indications - that they would crash down through their basements. Quote:
The speed estimates have been exaggerated through ignorance. No commercial airliner can move at 600mph at this sea-level and air-pressure. Whether 200mph or 400mph, these sorts of incidents were considered. Plenty of agencies were planning for such attacks. Only Condie Rice and Bush Jr. ever claimed that no one imagined attacks of this sort. Made your life so much better. Quote:
Whether or not that's affected you yet I can't say. I can bet that it will sooner or later though... :D
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04-30-2012, 02:49 PM | #1285 | |
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You have changed my mind. It's obvious to me now that by smashing a jet airliner into a skyscraper it's impossible to bring it down. It didn't happen the way the government told us. Clearly the Jews wanted us to build a pipeline through Afighanistan. Thank you for helping me see the truth.
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05-07-2012, 10:16 AM | #1286 | |
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Though I don't know what you're talking about Jews for. I didn't even mention Zionists... what's your point? :D
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05-07-2012, 10:31 AM | #1287 | |
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05-07-2012, 10:50 AM | #1288 | |
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You told me that the fire didn't burn hot enough to bend the steel beams. But then you told me that Thermite must have been used, which means the fire was four times hotter than required to bend the steel beams. Once you take science out of everything, anything you say makes perfect sense.
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05-07-2012, 04:24 PM | #1289 | |
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The only way the steel could have softened/bent/weakened so much - and so universally and equally - in such a short time is if the alternate theory were accurate. :D
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05-07-2012, 05:03 PM | #1290 | |
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Let's say you were standing 10 feet away from any building as it fell apart. You would see pieces flying and falling all over the place: To the left, to the right, in front of and behind you. It would look like a cloud of debris. Now imagine yourself a few miles away. It would appear to you that the building is falling straight down because from your point of view, it is. There's nothing to the left or to the right, or in front or behind. The same analogy applies to anything. From a distance a snowflake looks like a single white dot. But under a microscope it is a highly detailed structure. All of the up-close footage I have seen (and you have seen) looks like a cloud of frame-enveloping debris. All of the distant cameras look like a straight-down fall. Even a true controlled demolition looks like a cloud of debris up close. You are looking at the visual "evidence" and seeing only what you want to see, discounting everything else and / or finding excuses for things that do not fit your version of what happened. You are not truly skeptical, and you're not approaching this from a scientific or fact-finding point of view. Instead like most other conspiracy theorists you are looking for "evidence" that proves your pre conceived notions only. Tisk tisk.
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05-07-2012, 05:08 PM | #1291 |
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The term "Vertically" would mean absolutely no movement on the X or Y axis of any component of the building. Any video of the collapse clearly shows debris going on all directions outward from the building.
It is not against all probability because it did not fall "perfectly, vertically". Imagine yourself closer to the explosion, and you'll see that your statement is not valid and should be removed from any future arguments.
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05-07-2012, 05:11 PM | #1292 |
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1500................conspiracies
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05-07-2012, 05:27 PM | #1293 | ||||
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You cannot dismiss speed because it does not fit with your view of the "Facts".
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05-07-2012, 06:13 PM | #1294 | ||
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It's like ten people seeing a car accident from different angles. Ten people will come up with three or four explanations of what happened. The truth is they are trying to explained what happened on 9/11 without having enough information, and only going on clues. They can't explain why steel bent because they didn't have a camera up there recording what happened during that hour. You can pick it apart so quickly because we don't have all of the answers - and we never will. Quote:
At the moment of impact, some of the support was instantly destroyed while others were damaged. Yet other support beams were instantly supporting more and more weight. The already damaged beams, under a huge amount of stress, were then exposed to heat... Plenty enough to do further damage to the beams.
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05-07-2012, 07:31 PM | #1295 | ||||||||||
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Radar and GPS data will not testify to whether an airframe's operator is human or programmed. Quote:
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Not true at all. I'm not assuming anything. I consider the facts that according to building designers and steel support construction, buildings such as WTC 1 and 2 as well as number 7 could not have collapsed due to the damage incurred by the foreseen airline impacts and fires which occurred... Quote:
Whereas the opposite is true.... or truer...
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05-07-2012, 07:37 PM | #1296 |
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05-07-2012, 07:38 PM | #1297 |
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I'd like to see at least one other camera angle of the Pentagon attack. My gym has 12 cameras monitoring the outside so I'm a little surprised that the Pentagon only has a parking lot gate camera keeping an eye on things.
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05-07-2012, 08:25 PM | #1298 | |||||||
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If you ram your car into a brick wall at 10mph, you'll dent your car. Ram it at 60mph and your going right through it. A plan hitting a building at 300mph does a certain amount of damage, and a plane hitting a building at twice that speed does a lot more damage. Quote:
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The buildings were in fact no designed to withstand such impacts or the resulting fires. They were designed to withstand impacts from smaller planes at lower speeds that hit the towers by accident - not by someone intentionally ramming the buildings at 600mph. Quote:
From one of your friends: http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/anal...res/steel.html They claim that steel will melt at 800 degrees. That is, of course, undamaged steel not under any pressure or stress. The fire was between 600-800 degrees... More than enough to cause the steel to bend or melt.
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05-07-2012, 08:29 PM | #1299 | |
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But in 2001.... It was a bit expensive and their concerns were most likely more in tune to what was going on inside the building, not outside.
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05-07-2012, 08:44 PM | #1300 |
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Oh come on, there are STILL people out there who believe it was not a plane flying into the Pentagon? You have to be fucking kidding me?
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