Rand

Kinder,

I was just told that some EU banks sometimes return invalid expiration when in fact that is not the case. It is actually related somehow to the CVV2 value. I don't have any other details just yet, but this is a response from the issuing bank, not a glitch in the form. If you have a card from a different bank, I would be interested in knowing if you experience the same problem.

--Rand

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Kinder

After I hit I accept your processor start to process my CC and after about 30 seconds I see exactly what is displayed in this screen shot

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Kinder

Just my fucking luck.

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Kinder

Just my fucking luck.

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Rand

In case you were stunned or did not quite catch that post from Halcyon, I though I'd quote and respond. Check it out.

As Epoch was working on epassporte Flashcash was looking for a mechanism that would make sense for micro-payments. Since they were looking to solve a problem that we were working to resolve we began to beta our product with them. Shortly thereafter, FlashCash realized the potential of epassporte's ability to transfer funds instantly and globally in any amount at any time. The result of this new ability is real time instant payments. Catch that? Now an affialte can be paid in real time the moment he sends a sign-up. No waiting two weeks, or for a check to arrive, or a wire, or whatever. Send a sign-up and if you are an affialte with Flashcash you can be paid the instant the sign-up happens. Talk about a revolution?

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Kinder

A valid card is a valid card. If I can pay in lots of places should work for epassporte too.

Expect lots of declines in the future.

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jonnax

Yes i agree.

There should be a way to join without giving creditcard details.
Many people don´t have credit cards or don´t feel safe to give card details on the internet:

Why private persons can´t add funds just by sending a wire?

Rand

This may be a feature that will be added in the future. As previously posted, we are looking at a way to fund epassporte with an online check. A wire would probably not be a wide-spread solution for a personal account, but something we can definitely look into if there is a demand.

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Rand

This type of approval failure would happen anwhere you attempt to use your card that actually qulified the CVV2 value.

You must remember that only the issuing bank can qualify the CVV2 value of the funding card. I don't think this is a widespread or long lived problem. Issuing banks who want to have happy cardholders will need to resolve the CVV2 issues to insure acceptance of their product.

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Cindyff

Rand Hi
This is great news, i want to thank you guys at Epoch for at least trying to help with the charge back problem. I will be very interested to see if Amex and Discover join the program because here in the UK Amex is much bigger than in the USA, so i feel this will help with sign ups to US webmasters from the UK and perhaps other European countries if we are able to top up the card from our Amex accounts.

Have a great Internext and give Amparo my best

Cindy ff

m0rph3us

Rand,

I noticed you said you can add $1-$1M to your virtual visa using a corporate account via wire. What type of security measures are in place for the corporate virtual VISAs. What documents are required to open a corporate account? Credit check for the coroporation required?

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Rand

You could actually send someone a penny if you wanted to. This payment mechanism opens the door for micro-payments and instant money transfers globally.

Yes, a corporate or commercial account can be applied for from the epassporte website but does require a special contract to complete. Once the corporate or commercial account is approved, that account holder could purcahse and distribute and ultimately fund as many cards as they like. A nice benfit to these accounts is there no load fee (funding fees) to add funds to the cards! Nice!

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[The Leader]

uh Rand, I'm in Canada and I just got the same error message as Kinder. Anyone else out of the USA able to sign up?

On another note, as long as I can eventually get one ( ), this is going to be great. Flash cash has already stepped up and started paying in real time, kudos to them. I don't know if I'd want to be paid daily, but getting paid directly to the card weekly is something I'm looking forward to. I assume you're going to offer that option, for people who use epoch as thier biller and/or promote sites that do.

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m0rph3us

right on. Last thing to bug you with ;)
How is epassporte different than say the EU Virtual VISAs that are offered by VISA.com and several EU banks.

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Rand

I've asked the technical group for epassporte to look at this closer and make sure there is nothing we can do to improve the problem. We've already issued hundreds of Virtual Visas so I must assume it is a CVV2 approval problem as previously posted. Stay tuned. If you have a card from another bank you should try that and let me know what happens.

Currently, payments from Epoch are not being offered on epassporte but it is something we will be looking at as epassporte begins to be widespread. I'm guessing pretty much everyone on the adult biz will have one (or more) very quickly.

--Rand

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greenlab

Hi Rand, we are a non USA/CANADA company, and we are interested in the bussiness account of Epassporte....what documents are necesary to open the bussiness account, and also :

*how much a ATM plastic card will cost for bussiness accounts
*what is the charge for cash widthdrawal international

Greenlab
Icq #73520737

Rand

Greenlab,

Drop me an email and I'll get back with you on that. I havne't seen the contract for those accounts but will surly get back to you.

--R

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Rand

Oh yeah.... my addy is [email protected].

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Kinder

For all americans, just thank God every fucking day, that you did not had the misfortune to born in a shitty country like me where nothing works like it should be .

Man and I was so glad first when I have read this thread

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adonis

I just opened an account and tried my Virtual Visa on CCbill and Ibill.... Both attempts were declined at pre-auth.
This will only work for Epoch sites as I see, so EU webmasters cannot benefit from Epassporte.

mpegposter

Ouch, if true that does not bode well for this launch.

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Chris Mallick

As I understand it, the EU Virtual has no Elecron Card, the physical card that allows you to withdraw funds.

Moreover, this is issued in realtime, on the fly with no friction.

We give you free email, P2P, etc, etc, etc....

Check out the site... www.epassporte.com

Thanks,

C

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Chris Mallick
[email protected]

Chris Mallick

Check your email confirmation. It states that the Virtual has to propogate throughout the Visa System. This will be completed by Thursday, worldwide, on all mainstream merchants accepting Visa. As for iBill , CCBill, etc... they too have the ability to accept epassporte. We have spoken at the show already.

We announced here first, so we have not had time to make deals with everyone.

epassporte... Its everywhere... soon!
C

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[email protected]

goBigtime

Chris/Rand/Epoch -- Great Idea. I remember Amex Blue and paypal both touched on the 'virtual visa' or 'visa on the fly' there for a minute.

Everything kicks ass except that site & the marketing =(

I don't think that site explains what its all about quickly enough to win the potential client over. I'm sure you guys don't plan to let a little thing like site design kill this project though, so I'm sure we'll be seeing some revisions. It's just a little unclear as to whats going on over there (for newbies).

Also there wasnt any information for businesses really -- like how do we get hooked up like flashcash?

Great idea though. I'm sure with you guys behind it, it will do fine in time




Ahh.. I see.. webmasters will be able to promote it FOR you as a "secure, VIRTUAL transaction" -- that they dont have to give the card number out to everyone. So some of it can be made a little more clear by the referring webmaster.

See.. the thing is YOU GUYS know what all this stuff is on your site, because its your site & you've been neck deep in it for the past XX months.

Virtual Visa? Wtf is that (I know, but do they?) Visa Electron?..

Needs a good flashy design.

Probably was already talked to death in this thread.. I didn't read it yet. I'm going in reverse

psyko514

It hasn't been discussed yet, which surprises me. I find the design to be pretty crummy and generic.
I couldn't design better, but a lot of people could (even a lot of people from here)

Rand

Those are good comments to hear. As mentioned, we've all been so close to this project that the comments regarding usability are welcome and encourged. I think that in terms of funtionality, the site works very well. I have no doucts, however, that improvements to asthetics and marketing could be made to enhance the experience and ultimately better promote the product. We are always open to constructive criticism and ideas about how we can do better so bring it on or drop me a line.

---Rand

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psyko514

The functionality and navigation of the site are great, I just don't find it visually pleasing... I think the colours are pretty drab. that's just my opinion though.

As for ideas on doing better, don't ask me, cause I suck ass when it comes to webdesign.

Just something I noticed: When I go straight to epassporte.com, the bottom line of the page reads like this:
"Copyright %/1 iso8859-15© 2002 ePassporte, N.V. - All Rights Reserved"

Kimmykim

Unreal. Epoch produces a product that can add pure profit to the bottom line of every person doing business with them and you guys want to get on Chris' jock about the website design?

Understand it for what it is, a way to turn scrubbed out transactions into money, something that currently can only happen if you fall back on a dialer.

Rand

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psyko514

Did you read the thread? Or just the last two or three posts?

I think everyone who has posted in this thread (myself included) have shown their support and appreciation. It's an incredible idea and like I first said "it's about time".

Chris and/or Rand asked for comments and constructive criticism, so we're offering it. The fact that the only thing I can find "wrong" with epassporte is that the website has drab colours is a positive point, not a negative point.

dig420

Rand, assuming that we can steer international surfers to epassporte, will there be any payout to us based on the number of accounts referred to you?

Kimmykim

I read the thread from start to finish. So I was nice about it.

Rand

DIG, That question was raised earlier in the thread. I'm not sure about the answer. We (Epoch) "did" discuss this. Perahps this is a topic we should explore further and release at a later date.

--Rand

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cool1

Very cool stuff Rand

Kuddos to Epoch

__________________

goBigtime

But what about chargebacks? What about the scammers and cheaters? Is Epoch/ePassporte this confident in their fraud control that we as affiliate program operators could pass this confidence on to our webmasters?

I just don't see where the chargebacks/fraud are being limted (yet) any more than how it was before -- and theres plenty fraud now. It seems like it's possible to do a completely 100% online unverified transaction still right? No paypal-style confirmations of their address/bank account or some other ePassporte presignup record to hold them to their purchases.

I mean even if they payments to webmasters are $10 per signup -- people will find a way to exploit it. They will try like hell to anyway.

Just because your giving US the money in real-time, is it really all that wise for us to give it to unknown webmasters in real-time?

I'm just picking at things here because I don't understand yet how this is possible... how you plan to control the next level of fraud attemps that "real time payments" will create.

goBigtime

Rand,

Keep in mind that a good majority of the target users of ePassporte email us (paysite operators) things like:

"Hi please I can you tell me where I can find (some girls name from a gallery) address or telephone number?????"

Dick in hand, these people are NOT going to find the site nearly as functional as you do. Like I suggested -- its probably functional to you, because you've been eating, sleeping & dreaming every aspect of the project for the past xx months

You guys should do a massive contest for the design or something... something to bring designers out of the woodwork to submit MULTIPLE template concepts in hope to snag the epassporte designer position (which you damn well should have with a project this big).

I think if you did a something like a $5000.00 design contest you would be very thrilled and surprised with the results you would get. You would probably get a couple hundred submissions to sort through and choose from - not to mention the publicity it would bring the new project.

Don't fuck around. The concept is great, and I'm sure the code is great - but the features and benefits to using ePassporte are NOT being conveyed to the end user properly.

The website has very much a coder/insider feel to it to me. For something like this you want to go for the gold.

To me the colors scheme is bad, its very "blah" and not very inviting. The pictures are all very cliparty (as most e-commerce sites are ) - but the MOST IMPORTANT bit of critique I could give you is this -- the features, benefits and reasons to use ePassport (which is like the HIGHLIGHT of this whole thing right?) aren't even there! I mean you would have to look for them if they are... I (joe surfer) am gone by then, or at least not realizing the POWER of ePassporte. Wtf is a virtual visa? Does joe surfer know? Did you tell him? Fast enough? ;)

It's like you guys have 2 groups of clients here, buyers/consumers and sellers/webmasters. You need to quickly get your most important message to each of them.

For the buyers/consumers I would think it would be something about how they could use it to make discreet purchases & how the can generate a virtual visa card "on the fly" to give to a merchant that they may not know so well.. but you have to do quickly in as few words as possible. (look at me trying to tell epoch about marketing.. silly)

For the sellers/webmasters, its a little easier. We have slightly longer attention spans, and also use word of mouth to share information about the services that may have been unclear to someone who glanced at the page. But I would think to webmasters you would want to hype up the real-time payments, the fact that they will be able to lure more potential customers out of hiding by giving them access to the prepaid virtual visa, that this system has uberfraud protection (though I don't understand how its better just yet) and they will be able to pay their affiliates in real-time as well.

It's like you guys got all caught up in releasing this and busted your load on the community a little prematurely ... but don't worry, you've got us all excited too.... just wipe off and climb back on

Rand

goBigtime,

I like the ideas and appreciate the input. I "really" like the contest idea.

Your questions reagarding real time payments are good ones. Remember that Epoch is providing the vehicle that makes real time payments possible, but it is actually Flashcash who is offering and making real time affilate payments. You can imagine the kind of capital it would take to do this and the discussions that took place before the decision was made. Of course these affilate transations will be watched very closely.

---Rand

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Halcyon

With regard to the instant payout risk with the new FLASHCA$H program:
The system looks for a transaction history. So, we?re not going to pay instantly on the first signup of someone we?ve never heard from before. Because, you?re right, the risk would be huge.
But as soon as the system sees that the transactions you are generating are legit, you are assumed to be trustworthy and the money flows instantly.

http://www.flashcash.com/RealTimePayments

Rand

You can bet that they guys at FlashCash have thought this all through very carefully.

Congrats to them to taking "instant gratification" to another level.

---Rand

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DjSap

This could work as a good proxy for european webmasters who don't want to pay taxes.

* How many sponsors have shown interest in payments though epassporte?
* Will there be an option to wire money to my online account?

DarkJedi

What if the webmaster does bring in real signups and thorw in a small % of fake ones ?

I think it would be really hard to track.

goBigtime

Hmm no this is just not good for real-time affiliate payments at all then. Not if a first time user can make a purchase instantly. I mean you COULD do it, sure, you could drive your car into oncoming traffic too - but you just don't.

You don't think that the chargeback protection needs to be a bit stronger for real-time affiliate payments to be a realistic feature?
People who use paypal right now for processing could do some basic scripting and offer real-time affiliate payouts like that if they wanted.

Nothing has really changed in the chargeback arena then? It's still a non-swiped transaction and if they want to say "I didn't do it!" - they didn't do it. Of course you can then threaten to shut down their epassporte account.. but a carder isn't going to care about this .. hes just going to sign up a bunch of people as fast as he can, then take that ATM card and pull the cash over a few days - rinse & repeat.

We should talk though.

I have Big ideas & even bigger contact lists

goBigtime

Rand/Chris/Epoch,

I don't mean to keep picking at this.. I just really want to see it work. I know you guys can be the ones to do it too

Anyway that said... (uh oh)

But isn't visa and the feds going to have a problem with this? I mean your sort of bypassing the whole big brother masterplan here no?

I mean picture that it far exceeds epochs best case projection and the industry just cant live without using epassporte...

You guys know whats going on with Visa, the gov and everything else far more than we do I would think. To me it sure seems like they are trying to keep tabs on the adult industry for whatever reason - most likely for taxation. But ePassporte sort of circumvents that no?

This is GRRRRRRRREAT and all. But I remember that somehow a very similar situation in the gaming industry got shut down.

But yeah.. realizing all that .. ePassporte kicks even more ass.

I just question how long it can last... any thoughts?

Rand

It's not as simple as you make it sound. First, the "know your customer" idea comes into play on two levels. First, Flashcash is not going to make instant payments to first time affialtes. They will do this with those that they know and others as they qualify them. That just makes good sense. Second, yes, you can get an epassporte virtual Visa account in seconds and funds can be loaded up on the account, but to retrieve them you also need the physical Electron Visa card. That takes a few days and the card must be sent to a physical address. So you have a few days to qualify that affiliate as sending legit traffic before they can pull out any cash. Not to mention the fact that the card is being sent to a physical address and credit card fraud is a felony. Seems to me like a lot of trouble to go through if your a cheater because the risk of getting caught and jailed would be too great. And we know most of us are way too pretty for prison.

To address your other question, yes, the chargeback issue does change here. The purchase/load of an epassporte Visa is marked as a retail transaction and CB rules are very different here than they are for 5967 transactions. It is very difficult to chargeback an account funding transaction.


--Rand

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goBigtime

Ah.. didn't see this before I posted the other message. My sleeping schedule is so messed up right now.. tired =(

I was going to suggest something like this

I was thinking that this function was going to be automated somehow within epassporte. Like true thrid party real-time per-signup payments.

goBigtime

Aww don't worry Rand I'll have your back if you ever go to prison.


Nice

But while we can talk about it and know its potential for the industry.. will it be (is it already?) going to be accepted by Visa as a long term solution to this industry?

Wont all the site urls and per-merchant tracking be able to be thrown out the window here? Woah wait a min.... even the Visa registrations? Is this even still part of the whole IPSP/Visa Registration/high-risk merchant stuff? Will we be required to register and pay the Visa registration fees when using ePassporte?

Rand

I don't follow your logic here. Epassporte is a Visa card. Yes you can get a Virtual Visa account instantly online and yes it is integrated to work seemlessly with Epoch's services, but other than that it's really a Visa card, same as any other (with a few extra perks such as peer-to-peer money transfers). I really don't see how any of this changes the equation in terms of Visa regulations, URL registration, etc.. etc..

Epassporte is payment method just like MasterCard, JCB, Discover, or any other Visa card. The difference for the industry is the ability to issue these cards globally to those surfers who's regular credit card's are not accepted by the current billing models. Blocked countries, fraud DB's, ..all those transactions that are currently not-acceptable now have an opportunity to be taken. We've worked on this for 2 years with experts in the transaction field all over the world. It is a well designed prodcut which just happens to address the online entertainment communities needs very well.

What we want is for everyone to send us their denied transactions. If you're already an Epoch client you're covered. If not, you should have us as a back-up and send us every denied credit card order you have. A pre-funded card guarantees a sign-up and the conversions will rock. You'll get paid the same as any other creidt card sign-up, so, a lot of those coutries your using with a dialer should now go to epassporte.

--Rand

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Rand

Report from the show....

Epassporte has a life of it's own and after disucssing it's potential with many of the webasters at InterneXt, we are very excited about hearing your thoughts and ideas about how you feel you might use it to make your program even better.

If you don't want to throw your ideas out in an open forum, please send your ideas or questions to me at [email protected].

---Rand

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Hansm

i have one question

can i use the epassport with another company such as datahosters or rackshack or another company with normal visa support to pay a monthly server ?

let me know that.

Rand

Absoultely. We knew early on that this would be a great tool for paying hosting fees, content providers, affilaites, etc....

You can pay peer-to-peer instantly any time you like by simply logging into you epasporte account and submitting the epassport email addy of the person you'd like to pay and the amount. On another thread earlier today, I sent funds to Kinder by simply knowing his epassporte name. He received them and returend them to me. Fast. Easy.

You could also use the Virtual Visa to pay for anything you would normally tranact online with a Visa card.

There are several benefits to this, not the least of which is that your actual credit cards are never accessible by the person you are paying, and, that epassporte purchases will only be logged in your epassporte online account and never on your credit card statement.



--Rand

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