True. And something I pointed out to people wanting 5 scenes on a day. The girls faked their way through it and the site often did not retain.

Let's face it, we are in a buyers market right now. If I didn't have other shit making rent I might consider the offer. But I am not that desperate......... yet.

Interesting turn of events...

And as soon as sponsors and affiliates realize it the better. :1orglaugh

Yep
 

Well have to state the obvious but I am 100% with Paul on this one... By what he say's he has them queing up to do this work... 8...9... 10 producers all willing to work for peanuts... the industry really is in a tragic state !

I'll stick to making less sales for more money lol...

The reason I reached out was bc I was looking for somebody in the us to shoot my games with solo scene at end. I told you that I was getting foreign at 3 games for 500 hundo. Even said that I know it will be more and asked u for a quote.

Your quote was 600 for 1 game. That was too high and I did not take u up on it.

Ironic that in this thread u raving how u can now do it for 150 ;). Not a game but a solo shot.

Just saw this thread, its VERY fucking easy to shoot exclusive SOLO stuff for $150 per set. For example I hired a milf a few weeks ago and shot her for $300. I shot 4 pic sets and 6 videos and was out of there in an hour and a half. Keep in mind people this is amateur style. Took me two hours of work for this, I made a profit and shot a bj video of her for free.

Peter i got to where you said that you are the best salesman bar none LMFAO
Now go shoot 10 sets in a day, get your 1500 bucks and keep 300-400 after expenses

Yeah that is a GREAT hourly wage :1orglaugh

Ohh jesus i just love when people say they are great at sales while undercutting to get business....
Which is exactly what people that cant sell shit do hehe

Word. Everyone is still trying to shoot scenes one at a time - at retail prices. This just wont do these days. It didn't do in the past either, but now you'll go broke trying to shoot one scene at a time. Porn companies are folding like napkins at a wedding and no-one is adapting at all. It's just crazy. I'm not gonna give away all my production secrets here but everyone saying it can't be done better open thier minds or get another job.

And to Loch - I never said I was the best salesman, I said I was one of the best he'll ever meet. Joe Gerard wrote a great book "How to sell anything to anyone". Since you're so flush with everyone here turning down work - go buy it for $10 and read it and then we'll argue about it. And tell me how to be a better salesman - I'm all ears. And I'm not too old and set in my ways to learn something new. I'd rather make a sale and break even (not that I did on this one) and have a new client than argue on an adult message board how something can't be done. Get off the cross - we need the wood.

Peter i will keep it short as im on my way out.
Shooting at prices like that CAN be done everyone knows that and you havent invented anything new....every good producer i know always books girls 8+ hours minimum, its the way it has always been done.

I have seen your work and its good.
Honestly go for the business i dont care...good on you.
However i now also know what i can get away with for your quality work should we ever end up talking about that.....you just undercut your own business in public and even snuffed at people laughing at prices like that.

There are still a LOT of companies paying 500-1000 for solos and 2k+ for hardcores/Lesbian
And even more than that.

PS, I already know how to sell anything to everyone if i can sell at any price,
However to be able to keep an office and feed 6/7 people you cant, that is where you actually have to know how to sell, analyse your markets and execute your strateries.

And yes i turn away any business for exclusive under 25k pr contract
Its not that im too proud or think that im too good for money less than that it is for the simple reason that we can make more money doing other things.

And here you see why the customers, the people who put the money on the table, are turning away from buying.

That must be some real kick ass content. It takes 20 minutes to move the equipment, model to change clothes and instruct her how to make the next scene a little different. It takes and hour for her to get her breath back. 6 videos in 2 hours. :Oh crap

Amateur has always been about a girl or/and guy doing it for the fun of it. Having an orgasm and being real. Some shooters on the adult Net have used the word Amateur for crap.

*************

I never said it could not be done. I said anyone shooting for these prices is doing something wrong. A sponsor who can/will only pay these prices is also doing something wrong. Customers what ever the niche are not paying for content shot like it was a race. They want something that makes them sit up and take notice.

Dude. Stop. Really... everyone else too. It's not a glam shoot, or even one that requires LIGHTS! It's not a boy/girl scene, it's a bunch of short Ex-GF solo scenes plus a little POV. Did anyone read the original message? It's not an anal gang bang staring every single expensive contract porn star and stunt cock in porn valley in a $1000 an hour location. It's something I can shoot in a few hours. And it's easy. On top of it all - after my day's pay I'll have 3/4 of the day to shoot something for someone else or my 5 sites... FOR FUCKING FREE!!! OR PROFIT!!! GET IT!!!

Production is like painting a house: it's all in the set-up: picking the paint, mixing it, buying ther pans and the brushes, taping everything off, laying down the drop cloths, etc... And once everything is prepped... do you just paint 1 wall? Hell no. 1 room? Fuck no! You paint the whole fucking house. Figure it out... or go work @ Taco Bell. And webmasters - if your producers cannot work within your budget, hit me up and maybe I can help you. If not, I'll send you to someone who can... if I can - or to this thread. Toodles!

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Although I see some good points on both sides, the one thing that I can tell you is that the days of shooting the same girl for multiple clients in the same day are long gone for me. Not only did I find it a complete waste of time, I found that those clients were often the worst to deal with.

Beyond that...I think it's disrespectful, to my loyal clients, to offer to "piggy back" a cheap shoot off of their dime. Risking the loss of a loyal client for a few hundred bucks more is simply a foolish and greedy thing to do.

As for the client the extra stuff is being shot for, delivering a shot out model to them isn't really fair either. They may have a lower budget but they still want decent content for what they can afford. The only exception I can think of for working a model that hard is if you are shooting for a solo site and the "tired" look contributes to the "personality/different looks" factor.

There used to be a shooter here who got caught shooting the same exact sets and models for two clients. He would shoot for client A with Camera A on the right side of the bed and use camera B for client B on the left side. Just jump back and forth as the model stripped.

I guess what I'm getting at is that just because you "can" do something does not mean that you should. :2 cents:

Hey Aaron - hit me up on ICQ. Maybe it's time we burried the hatchet.

how in the fuck can one even manage to pay a girl properly...yourself... the rest of your bills with rates like that... or even close to.

also, with this video/picture set... youre shooting it twice? No fucking flashes in your video right? Thats double dongin alone.


anyway, its all been said...

Great post Aaron. Guess those piggy backing a "Free" shoot on another clients money don't have too many scruples.

Is that "Free" shoot the property of the guy who's paying the costs of the day. Morally or legally?

Peter, how do your clients think about this? :1orglaugh

I have no idea how someone can pay the model, pay an assistant and get paid them selves. This just doesn't make sense. Even if you leave out the PA, your time is worth something as is the model. Studio and equipment costs should also be included in the shoot fees.

And then the video...hell I give up at this moment.

Good post!

I have a question for you. How would this be exclusive if you shot using the style you mentioned in your post, both sides of the bed, different cameras?

If I paid a producer for exclusive and saw another set similar to the set that was supposed to be exclusive....with the same clothes, same setting and so on, I would not be a happy camper.
I would not call that exclusive, but then again...that is just me.

Great post dude.:thumbsup


You are always a great read dude.:thumbsup




To Peter Romeros defense, he actually owns his own sites, which makes it a bit easier to piggy back. But any other client who is paying top dollar, in the same room over and over again would not be right, unless they know what the deal is.:2 cents:

Seriously you guys- have you seen how many threads on the front page alone are about programs going under?

How about content companies?

When I buy content, I dont care about being piggybacked, in fact I encourage it. I want my content guy to stay in business.

As for 'doing something wrong', companies who have lowered the amounts they are willing to pay are doing something right. They're still in business. I recently heard quotes of $2500 to 4500 euros for a solo girl squirting scene! Are you fucking kidding me?
We all know that outside of LA, very few models earn more than a couple hundred dollars for an afternoon of solo anything. Don't kid yourself, I see performers handed $50-$100 all the time. These ridiculous rates aren't going to the talent, that's for sure.

You may feel that you are worth $300/hour, but it's not 2001 anymore.

Adapt or die.

So lets all lower our rates so we have less profit to stay in business longer!

Brilliant business plan you have there. :thumbsup

I'm not lowering my rates, I'm not going to piggback shoots, and I'm not going out of business any time soon. Use those bullshit lines on the newbies who don't know any better

The only people who don't care about piggybacked shoots are those who are too cheap to book real shoots.

If you say so
Of course, not everyone is in the business to get blown by models under the guise of POV

Just because someone is looking for cheap exclusive content, does not mean that other producers will go along with it and work for peanuts. Models for solo girl shoots go for 300 and up. I know some who have even paid 450.00 and more and that is just for the model.
So you tell me, where does the cost of my time, the studio, makeup and equipment come into play with your plan.

This thread was for exclusive content and I think piggy backing a shoot to sell to another client is deceitful at best and not a good business practice....just my opinion.

And just because a program is having hard times or going under and can only afford X amount to pay for content, do you think it is wise for us to follow suit of the company that is going under by giving our work away? If so, we would be heading down the same path as the company in trouble and would soon be out of business before too long.

I shoot content to make money, not to bail out any company that is on the verge of closing its doors, and I don?t make 300 an hour. If you don't have the money for exclusive content then buy content from a provider that has multiple sets for sale that have been sold 20 times over.

Disclaimer: I no way am I insinuating the person that started this thread is going out of business, I was responding to your comments.

Adapt or die? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

LOL 3? Do more than that the first 15 minutes....

Lol...
 

Hey you are in the porn industry right... oh hang on your a girl, that explains your last statement :1orglaugh

I paid a grand to the model I shot yesterday and another grand to the model I shot the day before, all solo stuff. And the last I checked, I was not in LA.

Woah! I must be getting them cheap after seeing what you pay.....

Must be a fantastic 3 shoots there :thumbsup

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Wait a sec Nikki so if i book a girl for 2 shoots and give both clients what they want , in thier budget, and the girl is happy to make extra money...that is decietful????? Cmon bro.
Whats the difference if I shoot her twice in one day or if i do 1 day and then next day>?

What about the clients that ARENT paying top dollar and ask for reduced rates? Not everyone is beyond wealthy like Aarons clients.

If I book a girl, full day shoot.... 8-9 hours, for a specific client following their criteria/outline for that exclusive shoot and then double up the shots which had their criteria (Dress, settings, etc...) in it to sell to another client...... I think it is, but that is just me.

Obviously others do this, I am one that doesn't......:2 cents:

Now, on the other hand, if it was a half day shoot for one client and I can get the next shoot in the rest of the day using a different criteria (Dress, settings, etc...) then that would be workable.

I do not know the specifics of this persons shoot, so this is a hypothetical example....hope that makes sense ;)

Well 1st who is gonna book 2 eight hour piggy backs. Also the chances of getting 2 clients to want the same girl in the same criteria at the same time is EXTREMELY remote.
What im talking about and what MOSTLY EVERYONE in this biz does is book a BG for 1 person then try to get a shoot for someone else with the same girl. The girls love it, the agents love it and the clients get what they want.

By the way, how the fuck are ya Nikki?

Finally an honest reply in this thread besides mine. For once we agree on something. It was you, Aaron M, Matrix, hell... Earl Miller, Hank Londoner, Suze Randal, Ron Vogel and yes... PAUL Markham who I learned porn accounting from. 1st shoot pays the bills, second shoot pays your profit. You keep the profit, make a site out of it, sell it to a bunch of people non-exclusive, or sell it to someone else. EVERYONE DOES IT!!! What? Do studios and photography equipment grow on trees? Did I get a fucking grant from someone to pay for the maintenance of everything?

Where is everyone's mansions and $100,000 sports cars for just shooting porn and playing "Big Director" and paying full fuckin price? My 2 biggest clients encourage piggybacking and I give them discounts because of it - this keeps thier costs down. And these are big fucking programs - one of them even owns GFY!!! The other one is a top advertiser here!!!

These Ex-GF shoots are suppose to look like user submitted content. That means I have to unlearn everything and shoot like I did 10 years ago. Yeah, it's hard and I have to be creative, but so what. It's easier and faster with virtually ZERO set-up. It's called supply & demand. Think outside the box or get outta the warehouse. But hey if someone is ready to pay full price, all the perks and shipping too - sign me up - I like living in 2 years ago making $4,000 to $12,000 a day.

Well, as I mentioned it was a hypothetical scenario. I was looking at it from a stand point of booking a girl for the full day for a client and then trying to squeeze more of the same content out of it to sell to another client during that eight hour shoot using the other clients criteria.

I think I was relating to what Aaron had mentioned someone shooting for client A with Camera A on the right side of the bed and use camera B for client B on the left side. Just jump back and forth as the model stripped.

So with that in mind, that would not be a good biz practice and in my opinion would be deceitful, that's all.

I understand what you are saying and that is understandable..... nothing wrong with that ;)

On another note, I have been doing well except for the horrific humidity and heat, how about you?

Hey here is a great idea for atleast a few people in here.
Why dont we all just let the clients set the prices? If they dont have enough money we will just shoot for nothing or piggy bag.

Give me a fucking break :1orglaugh

You have no idea how true that is though....we call them "Guy with Camera".
TONS of producers that are basically just in this to get free BJ's and brag about it....met a few resently.

Its sad....

Damn, guys are getting blow jobs? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I will have to run this by my wife and see if I can do this too......NOT!

if remember correctly or interpret your post correctly: your ccontent business FAILED and you had to leave vegas because you are out of money.

you have no understanding of the content business

None at all what so ever :2 cents:

good words here A :thumbsup

why on earth would you need an assistant and PA? seriously....

you think you are being clever... trust me you have no idea what's going on

I guess i have just been here for 10 years for the fun of it?
Bradley take your ego somewhere else sir :321GFY

you can react anyway you want. I've been shooting content professionally for websites and programs since 2000, continuously, and from what you have just posted in the thread... you have no idea how it works for us in the game. trust me on that.

I have no idea to what you are referencing?
That being the game means that we have to shoot solo amateur for 150 bucks?
As far as i can see you and i have been in the same business for the same amount of time most likely with different business plans....

My company is just in more aspects of the adult industry which is why we can be more picky i suppose.

As for websites then please, we shot some of the first HD content in late 03/04 for industry leading systems.
And have been doing that since 2000 

Now lets stop the penis match

FYI, Fiddler the one that made this thread LOVES the content, it was exactly how he wanted it. And it was very easy, shot in the model's house with no lights, on her couch, her bed, her kitchen just the way the client wanted it, amateur ex-gf style, very short videos, like 5 minutes each, pic sets 80-100. Very easy to do in 2 hrs, you pro guys do your thing and make the big bucks, more power to you. I tried that route and clients are few and far between. I can shoot that style if needed and yes charge more but that doesnt mean I should say no to the guys that want amateur stuff for a lower price. I gotta put food on my families table. Thats the bottom line.

Umm. No. lol
I am still selling content and doing fine at it. I am leaving Vegas for better opportunities for my family. Been here since 2002 and tired of it.