I was simple mentioning what I hard on the morning news as I mentioned and it did not surprise me after the stunt they pulled.

I do not feel any company is guilty of voicing their opinion. It was the suns and the way they did it that that got under my skin.

Like I said before, I see nothing wrong with the new law, you obviously have another opinion and that's OK. If you would like to point out what you see so bad about this law, please feel free to express yourself.

Nash may well be a guest of this country, however, its safe to assume that his impact on the city of Phoenix, the money he spends as well as the philanthropic services rendered throughout, trumps most Phoenix citizens.

Sports teams shouldn't get involved in politics, as at the end of the day, its entertaiment. I wholly agree. However, to disfranchise fan or community support over it, you really partake in the same act. Would this be all better if they were pro the law?

Calling them retarded over the name is better grammar? : )

What is the issue here? Isn't los the plural? Or maybe I am wrong? Or are you talking the team name? If you are, I can't see why they'd change that. That's the name.

I agree about the politics.
It really doesn't matter if you are pro law or against the law, it was the way it was presented and the fact that is was known they did it in support of the fan base, opposition against the law and for cinco de mayo....all during this heated time in AZ.
My beef was the insensitive way they just went about making their statement, that's all...

I cannot imagine what the Suns and the NBA are thinking when they do something to alienate at least 60-70% of their fan base. A really weird move in my opinion.

Naaa.. The 60+ age population that votes Conservative, is the majority here and will always be. If you build the population out that much more, you put water in new sources, which will attract cheap housing and more old people.

The ratio of old people to everyone else, is about equal. Some areas it's like 99% 60+, entire cities that are 55+ age housing.

Most people here like the law and want it enforced, of every race. They just aren't taking to the streets... If they had a vote on it, it would have passed with flying colors.

Here is how it's going to go down... if the law is blocked/removed, they will put it on the ballot and we will vote it back in and then all the moaners can piss off until the next round.

Don't you find it somewhat ignorant that you've already come out in support of the law and you admittedly haven't even read it? I'd point out some of the details I think they need to amend, but I'm trying to encourage you to actually take the time and become familiar with something you've already aligned yourself with.

Maybe you should read back to some of my post where I answered you. I said yes, I have read it and I have no problem with the new law.
But you on the other hand call me ignorant because I am not taking some side you are on or see things the way you do.....I have no idea.....

I said I have no problem with the law, you obviously do, but you fail to mention what you dislike so much about it. It's pretty difficult to disagree with you when I don't know where you stand.
So, care to elaborate?

I guess maybe I am missing something....sigh

Here is where I read the law. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

haha ya some people will never take the time to educate themselves on the actual facts. The owner nor Nash never said they were against the law but were against the law in it's current form.

I've been a long time Suns fan and will continue to be for many years and don't see too many real fans walking away from the suns over this unless they are just plain racist or not true fans before anyways.. The suns didn't make this out as a big deal hyping it up for a longtime or making announcements at the game. Anyone that knows Nash knows that he has some real big causes that he supports day in and day out as does many other players on many other teams. The los suns jerseys were not just made up for this but were used earlier this year in the "NBA's Noche Latina program" where all teams had jerseys with "Los" added to their jerseys for games.

I'm all for this law and think it could really help a very troubled state of Arizona but not in the current form cause it does more harm than good. I hope that in coming mos they will work to fix the new law so that is not so wrong. I love that this law gives rights to the police to send illegal immigrants back to where they came from but it also takes away rights of legal immigrants and is racist in it's current form.

The AZ law is a mirror of our federal law other than it hands the power down to the local and adds penalties towards abuse and it asks for funding to pay for more troops. That same power has been given to local enforcement along the border before.

I highly doubt the suns owner read the law... I haven't heard anyone be against the law after they actually read it.

You may want reform or a few points of the law might not be perfect - but overall it's what is enforced every day in our Country already.


Speaking against it, truly makes people look rather uneducated. If you want to focus on a few points, that's understandable.

this is very true and that is what i like about the law that it gives the local police the power to enforce a law that is already a federal law but the problem lies that it will also give so much racial profiling. When is the last time a federal government employee just pulled over a group of Latino looking people at 2AM to check to see if they are legal? For those that say by law they can't just pull over anyone just to check for this.. Bullshit! Cops can look at 100 cars on the road and with all the laws on the books these days could pull over 70% of them on something.

It's been on the books for years that the cops can pull you over for reasonable cause and give you the third degree.

Illegal, is still the key word.


.

Exactly, they look at 100 cars (not people) on the road and can pull you over for anything... just like that has happened to me and everyone else here. They then ask for an ID.

This is very clear in the law... profiling is not allowed already through State and Fed laws, plus this law has extra stuff in it to prevent it.

If you don't have an ID, you're breaking the law.. they then ask for Insurance and Proof of Registration. The illegal will again fail to provide proof, again breaking the law. The officer will then ask for his papers.

Before this law, he said here let me detain you, called border patrol, filed a joint paper, but 3-4 hours.. Now they arrest them, file them, and if needed border patrol picks them up from a few locations rather than random roads all over the State.

IE: Everyone gets more done.

Nothing wrong with any of this..... as you could be DUI and maybe he was just fishing for that, but found you were Illegal. Maybe it's a road check for DUI, but they nail illegals... just like at the illegal check points they nail people for DUI.

When the UA Cats changed their name for a game it was Los Gatos, meaning The Cats.

I just think it's silly that they use half and half. If you are going to recognize and support the culture, just translate the entire name for the game.

wildcats suck G0 DEVILS :winkwink:

Prepare for a first then. ;-)

My problem with the law is simple; this is NOT an area where I want states to be allowed to create and enforce their own laws. If you are for more stringent enforcement of existing immigration laws, I think you should be against individual states being given too much rope in this area of jurisprudence.

Why?

The value of federal preemption (via the supremacy clause, the dormant commerce clause, etc.), cuts both ways. By the same token that federal preemption guards against a state passing a law that might be too restrictive, it prevents a state from passing a law that might be too permissive with respect to immigration enforcement.

Let's suppose this new law survives a preemption challenge from the federal government (which is pretty unlikely, but possible) -- what if a few years down the road another state (let's say New Mexico for example) decides that it wants to simply open the length of its southern border, citing the Arizona law as precedent that states have the requisite authority to create and enforce their own immigration policy?

Now, it's quite possible that this wouldn't work and the NM law would be voided even if the AZ law had survived the earlier preemption challenge, because the AZ law comports with federal law where the hypothetical NM law would contradict federal law. You can rest assured of one thing, though; both the state and the feds, in each case, will spend a lot of money (money that they don't really have) to argue it all out in court.

The impending legal wrangling is not a desirable outcome, IMO, and our legislature had to know it was inevitable once the bill was signed into law. I really wish the legislature had not decided to set itself up for a court battle like this; there were other ways to go about putting pressure on the federal government to enforce existing immigration law, ways that would not have resulted in such public turmoil, and that would not have spawned a (likely doomed) legal battle for the state, which is already struggling financially.

Then there's the process of the legal challenge itself. Given that the court is likely to hold that the feds are raising a substantial issue, and have a significant chance of prevailing at trial, the court is very likely going to issue a temporary restraining order against enforcement of the law, pending full adjudication. That TRO will likely remain in place throughout the appeals process, regardless of which side wins the opening round, which means we get to spend some indeterminate amount of time with a law on the books that is getting people all riled up, despite the fact that it isn't even enforceable yet.

I don't think the law is "racist;" clearly some of its supporters certainly are, and just as clearly some of its opponents are racist, judging by statements that have come from both the 'for' and 'against' camps. It's just that I have serious issues with ANY law that has such enormous potential for unintended consequences, results in wasteful spending on easily avoided litigation and gets people all worked up without leading to any actionable solution to the problem it is purportedly trying to solve.

So that's it... no accusations of racism, nobody who disagrees with me is being called an idiot, just a simple (and I like to think both rational and valid) set of concerns.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Why do you think this isn't an area for the States to be? This is how the entire Country is setup.

I'm for States that use the Constitution to evoke the rights that they have when the Federal Gov fails to do it's job. The State of AZ has been screaming for help for years and has greatly been ignored as chaos happens.

The State does have this authority... and much more.


I think AZ doing this is exactly what was needed to bitch slap the fed into finally recognizing our problem.

However, even if the Fed rules the AZ is not legal, AZ can still enforce the law that they have on the books, the Fed has no power to change this at the State level. The question will be then, will the Fed fund the troops or will the State. The State can force the troops here, but they can't force the Fed to pay for them.

If the Courts win, it will go on the ballot and be voted in next year, then they will have hell stopping it at any level, being that the people actually want this - it will go through.

What a bunch of fucking idiots - blasting a sports team for something the state government did. It doesn't matter what side your on, that's just stupid. The Suns had nothing to do with this either way.

burritos

My frustration is towards the Owner, not the team members.

I feel sorry for those few team members that had no choice and they agree with the law but were forced to follow an idea that they don't believe in.

I feel sorry for all the fans that have to put up with bullshit like this too. They came to watch a ball game, not the owner force his political view on his players.

Personally I feel the team should be removed from AZ all together. If that could happen, the players would have stood up to the Owner but because it can't happen, they laid down and took it up the ass.

There was nothing in this guys statement that suggested support for illegal immigration.

He simply said a) the federal govt has failed to address the issue b) the AZ law calls in to question equal rights and protection c) the law will adversely affect AZ's economy.

What exactly do you take exception to? If anything it seems you should agree with the majority of this.

He probably doesn't support illegal immigration... however saying it calls equal rights and protection into question means he didn't read the law when he made the statement.

a) true, which is why the State did it. Each State has that power and right to do this and much more.
b) false, it has protections built into the law, plus other state and fed laws protect from that.
c) false, historically they have very little impact on the economy, it's not our first. And most of the sectors the immigrant rights groups are boycotting is a heavy Latino worker base. The backfire is on the way.

Don't forget, he changed the uniform... in protest.

I'm not sure the protections go far enough. The AZ House seems to agree as they've proposed the following amendments:

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/con...-sb-1070-.html

Have you considered that he may have been referring to the impact from reduced _legal_ immigration to AZ? I'm a legal alien. 13% of your census completing population is foreign.

I'm definitely going to think twice about visiting if I'm going to get shaken down by abusive cops.

No, he changed it in support. Of _legal_ immigrants. The Suns GM was born in Lebanon. His star player is from Canada. They've got other internationals. All legal.

That's very possible... but also is a great example of 'why' the law is good. It's not something they're taking laying down, this is rather serious shit.



I have several legal alien friends, they aren't really worried. They could and sometimes have been stopped by Border Patrol at the check points, asked for ID, and off they go.

It's when you don't have your ID - then it's a problem. It makes no difference what you look like.

Do you not visit any other Countries? They all ask for your ID followed by your Passport pretty much all over the world. Some Countries if you don't have and ID or Passport on you at all times, it's instant jail.

Like in Mexico.


Yes, because Legal Immigration is in question.... Hellllllooooooo

That's how politically correct marketing teams take advantage of something they know they can't stand up for and actually speak out against because it will create hate for them.

So you do the next best thing, you sugar coat it.

Perhaps they should have got the law right before the governor signed it?

I think you're missing it. This is about AZ creating a law that leaves open discrimination against a very large (but still minority) population, that's it.

You don't have to show your ID to any cop that wants to fuck with you. Why should I?

Let's all be honest. Racial profiling has been happening for years. If you are white in an all black neighborhood you can get pulled over. If you are black or mexican in an all white neighborhood people have been pulled over. Police have anyways been able to pull you over for some lame ass reason.

AZ is trying to crack down on illegals. So pulling the race card is not going to work. Any race can be here illegally. I remember not to long ago they caught a group of illegals trying to cross the border. They were from Mexican, China, Panama, Sweden and I think Spain. The point is that it is scary that anyone can walk across the border. I really do not care where they are from. The fact the border is not protected should worry people. Not everyone that crosses wants to come here for a better life. :2 cents:

Fuck that, I'm not going to leave my liberties at the AZ border.

How about this?

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — The Tucson and Flagstaff city councils voted Tuesday to sue Arizona over its tough new immigration law, citing concerns about enforcement costs and negative effects on the state's tourism industry.

It's not a law yet, that is why it is being changed... and to be able to make changes, you need to here what the problems are.

It doesn't leave anything open with discrimination. Besides the law covering those factors, we have federal and state laws that cover them as well, for police officers.


I don't have a problem showing my ID.. Border Patrol has asked, Cops have asked, the Bartender has asked. What the hell do I care?

It's a law to carry your ID... don't confuse what you think is liberties with reality.

Yep, hippie towns that are like 15 million dollars in the hole suing, when the people are telling them not to, when they're taking locked account funds to pay for it. Rather stupid move being that elections is coming up and they're already under fire.

Gotta love people on the outside looking in and offering their opinions. I'm in favor of the law. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL. no matter which way you look at it. Racial profiling? Please..... if a cop is that bored, he's going to get fired sooner or later. He might do it once... he might do it twice, but an entire profession fucking around with the Hispanic population just because they now think they can? People, seriously, I'm not naive, but I think cops have better things to do than harass the shit out of Hispanics just because they think they can. There are bad apples in every profession. On the whole I think the cops in this town and this state do a superior job.

Hey... I get pulled over for any reason, a cop asks me for ID. I show it to him, I'm fine. I tell him to fuck off or just ignore him, I get a date with the silver bracelets. Not that big of a deal to say that a legal immigrant should carry their documentation with them at all times, I mean that's just logical, isn't it? My DL is with me whenever I leave the house. I gotta have it to drive. I gotta have it to use a Credit Card. I gotta have it to go to the bank. I gotta have it to get a drink (fuck even after this many years, I still get carded!), I need it just about everywhere, don't you?

Complain all you want, but until you move to Arizona and face what is happening here, keep your opinion reasonable. It's easy to play armchair quarterback, but not so easy when you have to get in the game.

I am for this law also, people against it really do not understand the underlying reasons why the mexican goverment and the democrats want this law - Its all about money and votes.
Mexicans send home about 23 BILLION us dollars a year - this is 23 billion dollars taken out of our economy and put into the mexican economy
Remittances are one of Mexico's top three sources of foreign income, along with oil and tourism, and help sustain millions of Mexican families.

votes - the dems know there is a huge hispanic population in the US and they want those votes, so they are siding on the side of the hispanics.

Immigration reform has to start in mexico, not in the US. thousands of US jobs have been sent to mexico, but it did not stem the flood of illegals, why..because the jobs pay crap, poverty wages. the mexican goverment needs to set wages, increase wages to those similar to the US and canada. They have to give their people a reason to want to stay in their own country. But they wont. There can never be open borders and laws regarding illegal aliens need to be strengthened, including import laws, untill mexico starts taking care of their own people.

Didn't you guys just spend the last year crying about how the federal government has gotten too big? How big brother is upon us? Now you want big government.

I'm not arguing the law because quite frankly, I could give a shit up here in Illinois. I just like watching people act like hypocrites.

And anyone complaining about the jerseys aren't fans of the NBA anyway. These jerseys are worn by all teams a few times a year. They are sold on every team's website. It's a marketing gimmick.

I'm a season ticket holder for the Bulls and I attend the games to watch basketball. I could care less about any jerseys or political statements. People that do are not likely fans of the team or the sport.

Nash pays much more in taxes to the state than you or most Arizona residents do. He is the star attraction on a basketball team that brings in tourism dollars and creates a lot of local job. He also runs a Children's Charity that helps kids in the Phoenix area.

Yeah, maybe he should be sent packing.

Well Nash is here legally but you are saying that he should be sent packing. So this isn't really about legal vs illegal to you, it's about whether the person agrees with you or not.

Blah, blah, blah....I realize that and my statement did not come out the way I meant it to read. I was corrected........:winkwink:

This is about illegal VS legal! I suggest you read the thread once more.....It's about the way they showed support against the new law.

The federal government should have had this type of law in place since 9-11. They have failed to enforce the laws and turned a blind eye to the growing situation. Now that the State of AZ has taken action, they want to jump and toss their :2 cents: in.
If the federal government had been doing their jobs, we would not be in this situation that we are in.
Maybe they will start doing the job they are paid to do!

if you support the new law >>>SIGN HERE<<< :) almost 80k signed

Nope, you haven't ever seen me complain about that... I'm for social care, social services, healthcare, etc..

While I support the smallest/conservative gov possible, I understand in this situation it's not an expansion of Gov, it's an expansion of protection.