how long will pps last? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Mutt · 12-29-2002, 03:08 PM

good thread. the only people who know the truth about this are the people who own the paysites and the cc processors. The rest of it is all 'broken telephone' gossip about retention rates, membership counts.

An no Roger, all the big programs have not tried everything. You couldn't run a site like Amateur Teen Kingdom in your program, i'm assuming with your business model once webmaster affiliate payouts are done, overhead of running your business etc that it's not a big margin you're working on. Sites like ATK spend a FORTUNE on content every month, as do the new reality porn sites. Sites like Hustler can do it paying out 30 bucks per signup because they are in the content business.

you can also fall flat on your face, have shitty retention rates, even with spending a fortune on exclusive content. I've heard from people i trust who do shoot exclusive content that their retention rates aren't much better than what everybody here is talking about. So i don't discount the school of thought that retention rates suck and are about the same whether you've got a Mercedes Benz of a members area or a piece of shit members area.

and for you guys who think all the big boy programs have shitty
members areas - you're wrong. Do they have exclusive content, most don't have much if any but the MaxCash and Cybererotica members areas are BIG - surfers aren't getting ripped in those programs - both those companies buy practically everything available to be licensed. So surfers get a ton of stuff to choose from. I do think the surfers are getting more and more finicky, they want what they want - whatever the niche. They are in control now, they were so totally fucked over as hundreds of million were made it's almost like every time a surfer cancels on a trial he's laughing at the whole adult biz ''Nyah nyah na na na........YOUR CREDIT CARD WILL NEVER BE BILLED THIS IS ONLY FOR AGE VERFICATION PURPOSES........ahahahahhahah............guess what fucker? i just downloaded your whole fucking site for 1.99! Payback's a bitch ain't it!"

I think you will see the big programs going more and more to exclusive content, if a member's area for a big company like CE
is costing them 50,000 a month, they might find that spending that 50,000 on exclusive might be better in the end and getting rid of most of the plugin and filler content.

There is always going to be a scorched earth way of thinking with this business, nobody cares about how anything done today affects the future. Nothing anybody can do to change that.

greentea · 12-29-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

I personally will enjoy watching the rats flee the sinking ship.

They been fleeing! were you been?

[The Leader] · 12-29-2002, 03:09 PM

This is one thing I'll admit I was dead wrong about, sometime in I think '98 I predicted the PPS model would be VERY short lived, in fact I lost 1k betting they would be all but over with before the year 2000. I was wrong about the timeline, but I'm still confident that they will disapear within a couple years. It's up to the webmasters to smarten up. Guys who just want to make some quick cash and get out should use PPS, anyone in this to make a living should be smart enough to go with recurring.

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

Wrong....
but like I've said before we have tried it all nothing new here.

if we were doing 10 sales a day my average might be 4-6 months

we have a site that has more content then most and its only $6.95 a month every month. megaporn.com is that deal not good enough

just because you can't do it doesn't mean others can't

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Unfortunately the overall numbers do not support your claims. Average retention from trial to full might be 35% on the whole, and that's a might that decreases every day.

Surfers get smarter, they realize they don't have to pay a monthly charge to see what they want.

They more than understand the trial join. And they use it to their advantage.

For every member that stays more than two months there are at least 8 that dont make it past the trial, and that's a conservative estimate.

Talk to anyone doing triple or quadruple digit joins a day, they can corroborate.

The guy doing 15-20 sales a day on one site has a totally different revenue model than a guy doing 1500-2000 joins a day. Volume makes up for lots of things, including poor retention.

decent retention from trial is 50%. average doesn't mean much because most sites suck shit, simple as that.

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 03:15 PM

Wow Leader-anon, I find it amazing that you put your faith in the ability of others in this business to pay your bills.

Unless you personally administer the site, you have no control over what goes in the members area, what the members area evolves into, or even if the owners will stay in business... while I always like Jeff and Gav, let me remind you all of Busty Amateurs... or have you all forgotten how you bitched to high heaven and claimed they stole from you when in reality they didn't collect another dime off their members when it was over either?

Revshare type programs were designed by credit card processors to lower the bar to entry for the common affiliate who wanted to start a paysite and have a reseller program but did not have the cash to do it.

Don't confuse the processors rightful desire to increase their business with some overly solicitious feelings that revshare owners have for their affiliates.

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

decent retention from trial is 50%. average doesn't mean much because most sites suck shit, simple as that.

And you are quoting this figure from where? Which processor? Because that's the ONLY place you get a decent view of the overall picture.

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

And you are quoting this figure from where? Which processor? Because that's the ONLY place you get a decent view of the overall picture.

from a processor? again you're looking at the average. the average site blows. of course the numbers will be lower if the site sucks.

thats pretty much common sense.

i'm basing this on 4 years of looking at members area's and the ones that i thought kicked ass retained real well. and i've yet to see a members area that i was truly impressed with.

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 03:29 PM

I see. Then let's take a look at the Bell Curve. If it weren't for the average, there would be no top or bottom.

I am simply playing devil's advocate, ok perhaps the devil herself, in this discussion.

So my next question iguana, what paysite do you run that has these incredible numbers you refer to? Obviously you've a ton of experience running paysites in order to know what works and what doesn't for retention, right?

Dveron · 12-29-2002, 03:29 PM

Good Post Mutt

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
I see. Then let's take a look at the Bell Curve. If it weren't for the average, there would be no top or bottom.

I am simply playing devil's advocate, ok perhaps the devil herself, in this discussion.

So my next question iguana, what paysite do you run that has these incredible numbers you refer to? Obviously you've a ton of experience running paysites in order to know what works and what doesn't for retention, right?

i promote sites. i see retention with my own eyes. i will look at the members area before i promote a site for % programs. i've seen what big cookie cutter sites retention is, wasn't impressed at all with the crap retention. i've seen other sites with exclusive content retain very well. sites that aren't the same blah blah plug in content site typically do better, and if done right will retain at very high levels.

if i actually ran paysites retention would be excellent. but i started in this business part time, and i'm still pretty much part time until i go where i want to go with my life. starting a paysite wasn't really on the agenda.

Donnie Gangsta · 12-29-2002, 03:57 PM

the local phone company here has a neat trick....

they implement it in two places..

if a phone number you ring is busy, a message comes up that says "We will continue to dial this number for you, so that if it becomes available in the next 30 minutes, you will be notified. You can do this by pressing 1... pause... for a charge of 90 cents"

Then, when you call information, it does the same thing...

"The number is 555-6785.. you can be connected automatically by pressing 1.. pause.. for a charge of 90 cents"

I bet they really thought about what they were doing when they decided they wouldn't tell you how much it cost until after they tell you you can conveniently be connected by pressing one.. I bet they'd lose half the suckers who do that if they said "For a charge of 90 cents, we can automatically connect you..."

It's no different in this biz.. I hate to be overly pragmatic and burst the bubbles of everyone who holds onto moral virtues and idealism, but the point is to make them forget... to cancel that is.

why do you think sponsors do tricky stuff on their cross sales.. they will offer three sites.. an initial site, and two cross sales. The initial site will be a 5 day trial, cross sale one will be a 2 day trial, and cross sale 2 will be a 3 day trial.. they do it to confuse them and get more $

Cuz the truth is surfers dont care and this whole industry is based on them forgetting to cancel.... I joined a site the other day to see members' area and forgot to cancel

It's really easy and thats how we make money.. Btw, another good suggestion to keep your members is to make the prices for recurring really weird, so they won't notice it on their credit card bill.. like 39.82 instead of 39.99 .. Then they will think its just some charge.. etc.. billing companies will recommend you do this too

It really helps.

Every industry does it... Those prepaid calling cards you buy.. you have to use all the minutes before a specific date, or you lose the remaining minutes. It's the same with anything else..

Caesar's Palace doesn't have $1 chips.. instead, they pay you with $1 slot machine coins... Why? So instead of cashing in your dollar chips, as you're walking to the cashier, you'll see the $1 slot machines and figure what the hell, and blow the $1's.. that shit adds up..

It's the same in this business..

You guys need to get your head out of the clouds... the surfer doesn't care about you.. fuck them.. it's just $40... and for the people who say that this industry is bad because people think that way "Fuck the customer".. I say that I'd rather be around people who don't hide behind a veil of hypocracy, convincing themselves that they're moral, when in reality they're just fake, and their whole lives are a lie... Let's just be real. A market economy works by selling something for a profit.. so the consumer always gets fucked.. I'd rather get $40 from some perv jacking off to porn than sell him a piece of shit car for $30,000 that will be worth half that in 1.5 years .. now go figure -- which business is more corrupt?

Anyway.. just my

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana
if i actually ran paysites retention would be excellent. but i started in this business part time, and i'm still pretty much part time until i go where i want to go with my life.

ah yes, and if a frog had wings...

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

ah yes, and if a frog had wings...

i'm sure your paysites are soooo successful

TheFLY · 12-29-2002, 04:55 PM

Busty Amateurs

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingIguana

i'm sure your paysites are soooo successful

For the most part the ones I have been associated with definitely were.

kenny · 12-29-2002, 05:28 PM

Persignup programs arent going nowhere. You can graph and chart average retention, trials to memberships, etc. But that means very little when you control the payout. How can you make a bad investment when you just payout what you want?

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

For the most part the ones I have been associated with definitely were.

exactly

just because i don't run paysites myself, i do know what sells and retains and what doesn't because i've been pushing this shit for years.

[The Leader] · 12-29-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Wow Leader-anon

Leader-anon?

I don't understand how I'm more anon than anyone else here. You want to contact me? My name, e-mail, and icq have been posted on this board a couple times. What, do I have to post my home address to not be anonymous here?

Richard Helman
richard AT bigleaguebetting.com
icq: 177240182

Oh I see, you want 12clicks to be the next guy you fuck for a job, so you're kissing his ass. I see now, sorry, at first I didn't understand. Blow away ugly.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
I find it amazing that you put your faith in the ability of others in this business to pay your bills.

I find it amazing you'd rather trust some cokehead PPS owner to credit you all your signups through his software than run your own paysite. Or at least take the time to find a good, honest reccuring program that updates often and cares about its members.

Troels · 12-29-2002, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFLY
Busty Amateurs

Yep, http://www.bustyamateurs.com/

Let me know if you want to promote it.

ICQ: 44957551

I think you'll be satisfied with the conversions.... we are.

Note: we are/were not affiliated with Jeff.

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [The Leader]
Oh I see, you want 12clicks to be the next guy you fuck for a job, so you're kissing his ass. I see now, sorry, at first I didn't understand. Blow away ugly.

Struck a nerve I see... rofl.

drops · 12-29-2002, 08:28 PM

I love reading about these whiners.. "If a program did this.. and a program did that"

You know.. Let see you spend at lease 15k to even start a program, to pay programmers, designers and others, and then use the rest of the money to market that program.

So when you finally have a webmaster base in your program that cost you an arm and a leg for, try to manage them, watch for the cheaters, and keep the good ones happy in a non stop 24/7 business..

Point here..

Stop fucking complaining.. Send the traffic.. Get paid.. You want recurring money.. then find a exclusive content program. You want to convert great and get paid.. Go with PPS

PornBroker · 12-29-2002, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
Do they have exclusive content, most don't have much if any but the MaxCash and Cybererotica members areas are BIG - surfers aren't getting ripped in those programs - both those companies buy practically everything available to be licensed. So surfers get a ton of stuff to choose from.

agreed

FlyingIguana · 12-29-2002, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drops
I love reading about these whiners.. "If a program did this.. and a program did that"

You know.. Let see you spend at lease 15k to even start a program, to pay programmers, designers and others, and then use the rest of the money to market that program.

So when you finally have a webmaster base in your program that cost you an arm and a leg for, try to manage them, watch for the cheaters, and keep the good ones happy in a non stop 24/7 business..

Point here..

Stop fucking complaining.. Send the traffic.. Get paid.. You want recurring money.. then find a exclusive content program like Lightspeed's... You want to convert great and get paid.. Go with PornDollar or PornKings..

if i was to start one i would need in the 50-75k range to start up. 15k isn't gonna get you a whole lot, would be a bit thin on content.

drops · 12-29-2002, 08:50 PM

My point exactly..

Donnie Gangsta · 12-29-2002, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by drops
I love reading about these whiners.. "If a program did this.. and a program did that"

You know.. Let see you spend at lease 15k to even start a program, to pay programmers, designers and others, and then use the rest of the money to market that program.

So when you finally have a webmaster base in your program that cost you an arm and a leg for, try to manage them, watch for the cheaters, and keep the good ones happy in a non stop 24/7 business..

Point here..

Stop fucking complaining.. Send the traffic.. Get paid.. You want recurring money.. then find a exclusive content program. You want to convert great and get paid.. Go with PPS

Word... well said.

Pornkings · 12-29-2002, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EscortBiz
dont see it going anywhere

escort biz how is your escort site doing since its a niche we don't have maybe a revshare works well for it.
we should talk at the show
we have this free escort site maybe we can work something out
http://www.worldsexguide.org/WSGMainPage.html

rayzor · 12-29-2002, 11:13 PM

pps is not going anywhere... as long as the webmasters want it, there will be a sponser that has it. even if sponsers decide to shut it down, there will always be another sponser to buck the trend. if you're smart you'll use both and see what works best for you.

Pornkings · 12-29-2002, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rayzor
pps is not going anywhere... as long as the webmasters want it, there will be a sponser that has it. even if sponsers decide to shut it down, there will always be another sponser to buck the trend. if you're smart you'll use both and see what works best for you.

I couldn't agree more.

Try out a few sponsors and see who makes you the most.

I have at least 20 sponsors on my exits and I get a daily report on who's doing well and we bump them up acordingly. its an ongoing process that never ends.

If you can't convert a one month $1 trial membership you've got problems.
we made it simple for you Porn4aBuck

Carrie · 12-29-2002, 11:28 PM

There's only one site out there I would join today.
It isn't any of the big mega-sites... you kidding me? They've all got the same girls on the tours, which says "we've all got the same stuff inside". How many ways can you take that Matrix set of Skye in the blue outfit or Aria in the red patent leather and make a tour out of them? Surf around, you'll find out.

Trial? Don't make me laugh. I don't trust it - and that was BEFORE I became an adult webmaster. Tell me I'll pay $X for a yearly subscription or even a 6 month subscription, then you've got my attention. That tells me a few things:
1. The site plans to be around for a while
2. I'm getting some value for my money
Besides, from a webmaster's point of view - surfers are far more likely to forget about a bill that recurs in 6 months or 12 months than one that pops up on their statement every month.

Monthly fee? Hell no... I've got enough monthly bills. The minute you tell me it's $X per MONTH you've changed my line of thought from "damn I'm horny" to "oh shit, what bills do I have left this month? I'd better check the online bank statement..." and I'm gone.

Offer surfers a 3/6/12 month membership and you'll see wallets getting pulled out. It's what the customer *perceives*, not necessarily what you tell him or show him. Make him think he's getting a real deal and he'll hop on it. A trial membership or $1 membership doesn't say "deal", it says "you're gonna get burned on this, don't trust it".

Then again, I'm a spendthrift who gets horny, rather than a guy who's always horny and thinks with his little head before his big head.

Oh yeah, the only site I'd join? Nina's. Because it's so damn different and it SCREAMS personal attention and interaction. This isn't just some site where you can jerk off to the girl, this is a site where you can get to KNOW her by interacting with her on a regular basis. A lot of amateur sites have this angle, but they don't push it; instead they try to push themselves off as "just like the megasites but with a personal touch".

Just my

...I've not been in this so long that I can't see things from the surfer's point of view.

All of you guys arguing... it's a moot point. Different traffic converts and retains differently. People in different niches convert and retain differently. You can make a generalization about retention rates etc. but arguing over it is pointless unless you can take over your arguing opponent's sites and traffic and see things/change things for yourself.

Kimmykim · 12-29-2002, 11:34 PM

FYI Carrie -- multiple month memberships are the single biggest point of reseller fraud in a program, usually because they pay alot more and don't recur as often...

Pornkings · 12-29-2002, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
FYI Carrie -- multiple month memberships are the single biggest point of reseller fraud in a program, usually because they pay alot more and don't recur as often...

And most of them chargeback no matter what you have inside
why because they can 0 tolerence

In phone sex we could record the voice of the guy so when his wife would call to complain about the charges we could play back her husbands voice

but right now we have no way of verifying without a sig thats why you need excellent customer support

Pornkings · 12-29-2002, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Carrie
There's only one site out there I would join today.
It isn't any of the big mega-sites... you kidding me? They've all got the same girls on the tours, which says "we've all got the same stuff inside". How many ways can you take that Matrix set of Skye in the blue outfit or Aria in the red patent leather and make a tour out of them? Surf around, you'll find out.

Trial? Don't make me laugh. I don't trust it - and that was BEFORE I became an adult webmaster. Tell me I'll pay $X for a yearly subscription or even a 6 month subscription, then you've got my attention. That tells me a few things:
1. The site plans to be around for a while
2. I'm getting some value for my money
Besides, from a webmaster's point of view - surfers are far more likely to forget about a bill that recurs in 6 months or 12 months than one that pops up on their statement every month.

Monthly fee? Hell no... I've got enough monthly bills. The minute you tell me it's $X per MONTH you've changed my line of thought from "damn I'm horny" to "oh shit, what bills do I have left this month? I'd better check the online bank statement..." and I'm gone.

Offer surfers a 3/6/12 month membership and you'll see wallets getting pulled out. It's what the customer *perceives*, not necessarily what you tell him or show him. Make him think he's getting a real deal and he'll hop on it. A trial membership or $1 membership doesn't say "deal", it says "you're gonna get burned on this, don't trust it".

Then again, I'm a spendthrift who gets horny, rather than a guy who's always horny and thinks with his little head before his big head.

Oh yeah, the only site I'd join? Nina's. Because it's so damn different and it SCREAMS personal attention and interaction. This isn't just some site where you can jerk off to the girl, this is a site where you can get to KNOW her by interacting with her on a regular basis. A lot of amateur sites have this angle, but they don't push it; instead they try to push themselves off as "just like the megasites but with a personal touch".

Just my ...I've not been in this so long that I can't see things from the surfer's point of view.

All of you guys arguing... it's a moot point. Different traffic converts and retains differently. People in different niches convert and retain differently. You can make a generalization about retention rates etc. but arguing over it is pointless unless you can take over your arguing opponent's sites and traffic and see things/change things for yourself.

How about this when they join our sites on a trial we give them a full year free to another members area even if they cancel.
mostly pics and upsell feeds but its free for a year.

And a $1 trial membership for a month doesn't say deal?
tell that to the 1000 surfers who join every day

Pornkings · 12-29-2002, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

ah yes, and if a frog had wings...

or if a pig could fly

Brad Mitchell · 12-30-2002, 01:22 AM

Great thread everyone... what a thoughtful read.

Brad

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donnie Gangsta
the local phone company here has a neat trick....

It's no different in this biz.. I hate to be overly pragmatic and burst the bubbles of everyone who holds onto moral virtues and
Cuz the truth is surfers dont care and this whole industry is based on them forgetting to cancel.... I joined a site the other day to see members' area and forgot to cancel It's really easy and thats how we make money.. Btw, another good suggestion to keep your members is to make the prices for recurring really weird, so they won't notice it on their credit card bill.. like 39.82 instead of 39.99 .. Then they will think its just some charge.. etc.. billing companies will recommend you do this too It really helps.

Anyway.. just my

Don't give away all the secrets
yes it is smart to charge an off number like 37.48 because $39.99 is rare since there is always tax and its a good idea to keep it under $40

or another good one is $40 even so it looks like fast cash etc.

Kimmykim · 12-30-2002, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pornkings

or if a pig could fly

LOL get on your knees and bark like a dog.

Then I'll start busting your balls again ;-}}}}

Pornkings · 12-30-2002, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

LOL get on your knees and bark like a dog.

Then I'll start busting your balls again ;-}}}}

I'll get on my knees and bark like a dog. if you get on your knees and S-@k my C*#k

Just messing I like it better this way.

12-29-2002, 03:08 PM	#51
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	good thread. the only people who know the truth about this are the people who own the paysites and the cc processors. The rest of it is all 'broken telephone' gossip about retention rates, membership counts. An no Roger, all the big programs have not tried everything. You couldn't run a site like Amateur Teen Kingdom in your program, i'm assuming with your business model once webmaster affiliate payouts are done, overhead of running your business etc that it's not a big margin you're working on. Sites like ATK spend a FORTUNE on content every month, as do the new reality porn sites. Sites like Hustler can do it paying out 30 bucks per signup because they are in the content business. you can also fall flat on your face, have shitty retention rates, even with spending a fortune on exclusive content. I've heard from people i trust who do shoot exclusive content that their retention rates aren't much better than what everybody here is talking about. So i don't discount the school of thought that retention rates suck and are about the same whether you've got a Mercedes Benz of a members area or a piece of shit members area. and for you guys who think all the big boy programs have shitty members areas - you're wrong. Do they have exclusive content, most don't have much if any but the MaxCash and Cybererotica members areas are BIG - surfers aren't getting ripped in those programs - both those companies buy practically everything available to be licensed. So surfers get a ton of stuff to choose from. I do think the surfers are getting more and more finicky, they want what they want - whatever the niche. They are in control now, they were so totally fucked over as hundreds of million were made it's almost like every time a surfer cancels on a trial he's laughing at the whole adult biz ''Nyah nyah na na na........YOUR CREDIT CARD WILL NEVER BE BILLED THIS IS ONLY FOR AGE VERFICATION PURPOSES........ahahahahhahah............guess what fucker? i just downloaded your whole fucking site for 1.99! Payback's a bitch ain't it!" I think you will see the big programs going more and more to exclusive content, if a member's area for a big company like CE is costing them 50,000 a month, they might find that spending that 50,000 on exclusive might be better in the end and getting rid of most of the plugin and filler content. There is always going to be a scorched earth way of thinking with this business, nobody cares about how anything done today affects the future. Nothing anybody can do to change that. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

12-29-2002, 03:57 PM	#62
Donnie Gangsta Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 1,104	the local phone company here has a neat trick.... they implement it in two places.. if a phone number you ring is busy, a message comes up that says "We will continue to dial this number for you, so that if it becomes available in the next 30 minutes, you will be notified. You can do this by pressing 1... pause... for a charge of 90 cents" Then, when you call information, it does the same thing... "The number is 555-6785.. you can be connected automatically by pressing 1.. pause.. for a charge of 90 cents" I bet they really thought about what they were doing when they decided they wouldn't tell you how much it cost until after they tell you you can conveniently be connected by pressing one.. I bet they'd lose half the suckers who do that if they said "For a charge of 90 cents, we can automatically connect you..." It's no different in this biz.. I hate to be overly pragmatic and burst the bubbles of everyone who holds onto moral virtues and idealism, but the point is to make them forget... to cancel that is. why do you think sponsors do tricky stuff on their cross sales.. they will offer three sites.. an initial site, and two cross sales. The initial site will be a 5 day trial, cross sale one will be a 2 day trial, and cross sale 2 will be a 3 day trial.. they do it to confuse them and get more $ Cuz the truth is surfers dont care and this whole industry is based on them forgetting to cancel.... I joined a site the other day to see members' area and forgot to cancel It's really easy and thats how we make money.. Btw, another good suggestion to keep your members is to make the prices for recurring really weird, so they won't notice it on their credit card bill.. like 39.82 instead of 39.99 .. Then they will think its just some charge.. etc.. billing companies will recommend you do this too It really helps. Every industry does it... Those prepaid calling cards you buy.. you have to use all the minutes before a specific date, or you lose the remaining minutes. It's the same with anything else.. Caesar's Palace doesn't have $1 chips.. instead, they pay you with $1 slot machine coins... Why? So instead of cashing in your dollar chips, as you're walking to the cashier, you'll see the $1 slot machines and figure what the hell, and blow the $1's.. that shit adds up.. It's the same in this business.. You guys need to get your head out of the clouds... the surfer doesn't care about you.. fuck them.. it's just $40... and for the people who say that this industry is bad because people think that way "Fuck the customer".. I say that I'd rather be around people who don't hide behind a veil of hypocracy, convincing themselves that they're moral, when in reality they're just fake, and their whole lives are a lie... Let's just be real. A market economy works by selling something for a profit.. so the consumer always gets fucked.. I'd rather get $40 from some perv jacking off to porn than sell him a piece of shit car for $30,000 that will be worth half that in 1.5 years .. now go figure -- which business is more corrupt? Anyway.. just my Last edited by Donnie Gangsta; 12-29-2002 at 04:01 PM..

12-29-2002, 08:28 PM	#72
drops Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,116	I love reading about these whiners.. "If a program did this.. and a program did that" You know.. Let see you spend at lease 15k to even start a program, to pay programmers, designers and others, and then use the rest of the money to market that program. So when you finally have a webmaster base in your program that cost you an arm and a leg for, try to manage them, watch for the cheaters, and keep the good ones happy in a non stop 24/7 business.. Point here.. Stop fucking complaining.. Send the traffic.. Get paid.. You want recurring money.. then find a exclusive content program. You want to convert great and get paid.. Go with PPS __________________ <img src=http://porndollar.com/webmasters/banners/porndollar/120x60_25_pd.gif border=0><br>$84 Per Signup \| $25 Per Free Signup \| $20 Per Cross Sales \| Credits On Exits \| Paid Weekly <br>Contact Info. http://porndollar.com/support.html Last edited by drops; 12-29-2002 at 08:37 PM..

12-29-2002, 08:50 PM	#75
drops Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 1,116	My point exactly.. __________________ <img src=http://porndollar.com/webmasters/banners/porndollar/120x60_25_pd.gif border=0><br>$84 Per Signup \| $25 Per Free Signup \| $20 Per Cross Sales \| Credits On Exits \| Paid Weekly <br>Contact Info. http://porndollar.com/support.html

12-30-2002, 01:22 AM	#85
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	Great thread everyone... what a thoughtful read. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

12-29-2002, 03:09 PM	#53
[The Leader] Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Van City Posts: 1,026	This is one thing I'll admit I was dead wrong about, sometime in I think '98 I predicted the PPS model would be VERY short lived, in fact I lost 1k betting they would be all but over with before the year 2000. I was wrong about the timeline, but I'm still confident that they will disapear within a couple years. It's up to the webmasters to smarten up. Guys who just want to make some quick cash and get out should use PPS, anyone in this to make a living should be smart enough to go with recurring.

12-29-2002, 03:15 PM	#56
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Wow Leader-anon, I find it amazing that you put your faith in the ability of others in this business to pay your bills. Unless you personally administer the site, you have no control over what goes in the members area, what the members area evolves into, or even if the owners will stay in business... while I always like Jeff and Gav, let me remind you all of Busty Amateurs... or have you all forgotten how you bitched to high heaven and claimed they stole from you when in reality they didn't collect another dime off their members when it was over either? Revshare type programs were designed by credit card processors to lower the bar to entry for the common affiliate who wanted to start a paysite and have a reseller program but did not have the cash to do it. Don't confuse the processors rightful desire to increase their business with some overly solicitious feelings that revshare owners have for their affiliates.

12-29-2002, 03:29 PM	#59
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I see. Then let's take a look at the Bell Curve. If it weren't for the average, there would be no top or bottom. I am simply playing devil's advocate, ok perhaps the devil herself, in this discussion. So my next question iguana, what paysite do you run that has these incredible numbers you refer to? Obviously you've a ton of experience running paysites in order to know what works and what doesn't for retention, right?

12-29-2002, 03:29 PM	#60
Dveron Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Vancouver Posts: 2,794	Good Post Mutt

12-29-2002, 04:55 PM	#65
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	Busty Amateurs

12-29-2002, 05:28 PM	#67
kenny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 7,245	Persignup programs arent going nowhere. You can graph and chart average retention, trials to memberships, etc. But that means very little when you control the payout. How can you make a bad investment when you just payout what you want?

12-29-2002, 11:13 PM	#78
rayzor Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Br00klyn, NY Posts: 245	pps is not going anywhere... as long as the webmasters want it, there will be a sponser that has it. even if sponsers decide to shut it down, there will always be another sponser to buck the trend. if you're smart you'll use both and see what works best for you.

12-29-2002, 11:28 PM	#80
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	There's only one site out there I would join today. It isn't any of the big mega-sites... you kidding me? They've all got the same girls on the tours, which says "we've all got the same stuff inside". How many ways can you take that Matrix set of Skye in the blue outfit or Aria in the red patent leather and make a tour out of them? Surf around, you'll find out. Trial? Don't make me laugh. I don't trust it - and that was BEFORE I became an adult webmaster. Tell me I'll pay $X for a yearly subscription or even a 6 month subscription, then you've got my attention. That tells me a few things: 1. The site plans to be around for a while 2. I'm getting some value for my money Besides, from a webmaster's point of view - surfers are far more likely to forget about a bill that recurs in 6 months or 12 months than one that pops up on their statement every month. Monthly fee? Hell no... I've got enough monthly bills. The minute you tell me it's $X per MONTH you've changed my line of thought from "damn I'm horny" to "oh shit, what bills do I have left this month? I'd better check the online bank statement..." and I'm gone. Offer surfers a 3/6/12 month membership and you'll see wallets getting pulled out. It's what the customer perceives, not necessarily what you tell him or show him. Make him think he's getting a real deal and he'll hop on it. A trial membership or $1 membership doesn't say "deal", it says "you're gonna get burned on this, don't trust it". Then again, I'm a spendthrift who gets horny, rather than a guy who's always horny and thinks with his little head before his big head. Oh yeah, the only site I'd join? Nina's. Because it's so damn different and it SCREAMS personal attention and interaction. This isn't just some site where you can jerk off to the girl, this is a site where you can get to KNOW her by interacting with her on a regular basis. A lot of amateur sites have this angle, but they don't push it; instead they try to push themselves off as "just like the megasites but with a personal touch". Just my ...I've not been in this so long that I can't see things from the surfer's point of view. All of you guys arguing... it's a moot point. Different traffic converts and retains differently. People in different niches convert and retain differently. You can make a generalization about retention rates etc. but arguing over it is pointless unless you can take over your arguing opponent's sites and traffic and see things/change things for yourself.

12-29-2002, 11:34 PM	#81
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	FYI Carrie -- multiple month memberships are the single biggest point of reseller fraud in a program, usually because they pay alot more and don't recur as often...