reddawg

I told this guy that he is not entitled to a charge back after 6 months of service and if he does I am going to warn everyone about his behavior.

Am I wrong, he cried to his credit card company that he did not recieve services and his credit card was used without authorization and he has been a member since july 05.

What do you all think.

And is there a website for example "cheaters exposed" where I can add this cheaters name to it and if not, it may be a good program for one of you to start.

We could go to the site and type in a name and see if this person is a cheater, for a small membership we could use the database and look up names and see what others have to say about them, before we have to learn the hard way!

I would join such a service

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FlyingIguana

tell him you'll sue him if he charges back. then go after him and have press releases made.

it'll be great exposure for your site and maybe some other idiot won't lie and chargeback so fast. hell i'd even sue the credit card company for allowing the chargeback, especially if everything on your end is up to par.

reddawg

Yes, I could see the headlines now....

"Owner of Adult site is nuts!"

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jimmyf

you'll never know will you?

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FlyingIguana

well then all his friends and family can know that not only is he spanking his monkey to porn, he also rips off companies.

x-vision

Not gonna happen. Credit card companies couldn't give a flying fuck about you, only their customer. Unless you show them an imprint of the card with a signed copy of the sales receipt, you can kiss the money goodbye. I have plenty of stories about my fights with the CC companies and I lost them all, even with more evidence than there was against OJ.

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reddawg

It sucks that credit card companies are so eager to chargeback, especially since I already paid my afilliate, unfortunately, we don't have a hard ass processing company to turn to who says fuck off monkey boy!

I wish there was one like VisaFuckcard

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FlyingIguana

were you in court? did you actually sue them?

reddawg

I know, but it sucks and I pissed about this bullshit and it is not my first time either, however, as I mentioned before, we should start a cheaters exposed site, so maybe when one guy fucks one of us at least the others will have a chance to avoid him or her.

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reddawg

The little fee I charge, I wouldn't bother.

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x-vision

It's just not worth going to court. If I want to hire a lawyer, it's not worth it. Plus it takes me away from the office for longer than it's worth when I can be making money to pay for it. A few of them were international so those are a lost cause. And who knows where these fuckers live. If I sue them near me and they don't show up, I get a default judgement which I'll never be able to collect of these shady fucks without spending even more money to a collection agency. You'll never even cover your cost on a lawsuit unless you're talking many thousands. I guarantee you I would have won in court with my evidence, but that's not good enough for CC companies. They don't want beyond a resonable doubt or even preponderance of the evidence. If he says it wasn't him, that's enough for them. There could be a picture of the guy holding his credit card in one hand with your website members section on his secreen and and my 3D glasses on his head with a nametag on and you'll still lose against the credit card gods. now you got me pissed just thinking about it.

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UnseenWorld

Same here. Generally speaking, unless you have them dead to rights (signed imprint, or at least some sort of credible evidence the CC company can understand and come to believe) you just met up with a "cost of doing business."

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slapass

I just ran into this with an infomercial campaign. Some companies are able to get a reputation as fighting hard on chargebacks so that the CC company rolls over on the customer when he tries the chargeback route. Carlton Sheets is very successful in this. So it just takes 15 years and millions of dollars but it might be the start of a sea change. The big issue is that damn signature. They use a tape of the conversation. I wonder if we can use IP's. As then at least it brings it the persons home and then if he logged in several times he knew he had access etc.

Brad Mitchell

wah wah wah

I've had chargebacks come back over 12 months from the date of service on my merchant account from paysite subscriptions.

Brad

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pine

It happens. We once had a guy charge back 4 months worth of membership. We had logs to show he had accessed our site three-four times a month over that period. All the billing company could say was that Visa would tell them "The logs were forged". Not much you can do when someone decides to willfully defraud Visa. Best thing to hope for is that his card gets on the blacklists and he never gets to use it online again.

Sadie

Often times when I travel, I use priceline.com. They require me to type in the last three digits in the signature field on the back of the card. This is sort of an electronic signature. It tells priceline that at the very least I am holding the card in my hand. If your "cheater" had to do this...then one of two things happened...either his card got stolen, or he is lying. If his card got stolen 6 months ago, then why wasn't it canceled?

x-vision

That's the CIN number. More and more people are using it. Problem is, the more people that require it, the more it becomes useless. Now everyone who steals the credit card number also steals the CIN because it's used together with the original credit card number (it's like having a 19 digit credit card number instead of 16, just as easy to steal). Yes, it's still a bit of a deterrent, but in my experience we would ask shady customers for their CIN and everytime it was fraud, we still had a their CIN. If he does not have the CIN at all, then you can say it's fraud because every card has one, but just because he gives you one, don't assume it's legit.

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salsbury

it's too bad someone big hasn't sued Visa/MC - force them to re-issue any card before issuing a chargeback. if the customer doesn't want to wait for a new card, assume that the chargeback isn't important enough to them. if they want to wait 3-7 days for a new card, maybe it's for real.

something like that would sure change a lot, i think.

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multisexsite

salsbury your counter sucks

FlyingIguana

a password system would be best. debit cards could also be added to the system so that there's no more cheque bs. but its cheaper to have all these fees that go with chargebacks and let online companies get ripped off.

yambo.biz

as well as I understand, it is not allowed to charge back after 180 days.

it's impossible to charge back

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AM Jeff

Welcome to the Club.

Happens everyday..
You'll always get assholes that will chargeback after 6 months of service or even emails after a year..thanking you for the awesome website and to issue a refund, or they'll chargeback.

Serge taught me.....
If you do not have a signed reciept with the customers signature on it.
VISA will chargeback.

If you get an inquiry....just issue a refund and be done with it.
You WON"T win.

Merry Christmas all'

ThunderBalls

The problem is the banks and processors actually
profit from chargebacks and the merchant is the one that gets fucked.

Most processors charge anywhere from $10 to $25 for chargebacks to the merchant so whats their incentive to do anything about it?

slapass

And if you get too many chargebacks they gauge the hell out you. Then drop you if it continues.

Brad Mitchell

I stopped saving all my remittance but you are wrong. I'll see if I can dig up one of those chargebacks.

Brad

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reddawg

Thanks for all the responses, I know it was not much money, but I hate a thief and a liar and I hate the credit card companies as they make stealing digital products easy and I sent Visa a letter suggesting they institute a digital agreement act, but that will never happen.

Life goes on

Enjoy your Holiday, if you celebrate it and if not just have fun.

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MakeMeGrrrrowl

You know, just a few days ago I got about 400.00 in charge backs from this guy.

What I did was, called him...he hung up on me twice, told me he knows nothing about it.

Then I called him back, and left a message.

*so and so* This is *so and so from so and so* I WANT my money back, I know you did the calls, YOU know you did the calls. My next step is going to be to send you a bill with phone sex all over the outside of the envelope. If you don't respond, I will send you an envelope with CHILD PORN all over the outside of an envelope and SURELY the police will find you...then I will report you to the white collar crimes unit because what you are doing is a FELONY! You WILL go to jail. Call me back IMMEDIATELY.

Well he called the next day, saying he wants to take care of it ASAP...and faxed me a letter stating he now recognizes the charges and is no longer disputing them.

Yes, this is an awful tactic, but it works. I always list them on my site too, and make sure they know it.

Losers

Notice there are not many there, the one that is there, is working on his last bit of money. =)

FlyingIguana

all the processing companies should hire you as a collection agent

MakeMeGrrrrowl

I have thought about it! I actually enjoy tracking people down! This particular guy disconnected his phone, so I called the issuing bank. Well they cant GIVE you information (and I do this EVERY time I get a charge back) but they can tell you if you're correct. So I always ask do you have a work number? they will say yes...so then I will just start guessing numbers while *giggling* and I get their work numbers. =) I USUALLY only do this when I have a guy on the phone, and I can flirt..but in this case it was a woman, and bingo, I got his number, and that's how I contacted him. He's done it to like 4 other phone sex companies too. Jerk!

BluMedia

Visa/Mastercard need to do something about this bullshit. We had a user today do 4 chargebacks. Can't the processors share peoples info that competly abuse this? I heard in Europe credit card holders have to actually pay to do a chargeback, is that true?
Damn FlyingIguana that was awesome what you did. There is just to many people out there abusing this.

Mark

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aleck

no need to pay for a chargeback. u call/email ur bank, they r checking that transaction and after u send 'em signed fax - they do it.

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reddawg

That loser page idea is sweet, I may do that.

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x-vision

LOL that's hillarious! I'll have to try that sometime!

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reddawg

I am doing it! No one is on it yet, but they have been warned!

I put a loser icon on the front page and in the terms of agreement and I made a page for the new losers community

http://sexsentry.com/losers.html

I don't wish to put anyone on it, but you fuck me and my affiliates you will live there until you make restitution

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ACE777

you should remember, card companies policy are guided by various state and federal laws, intended to protect the consumer.

it is amusing that Visa's TV commercial puts a spin on the fact that you as a customer don't have to worry if your card is used in a fraud transaction on the internet.

Visa and other card companies simply jumping on the bandwagon, and making it appear they are the champions of consumer protection, where the actual "protector" is the Law.

salsbury

i don't know if it is the christmas spirit, or all of the alcohol in my system, but i'm now inspired to fix it!

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Shaggy

i think a database with all of there names should be used by the processors. The third strike and your out, you no longer have the ability to charge anything back.

Either that, or they get cut off and can't join any site. So they will have to get a new card and think twice about doing it again.

FlyingIguana

i had to make a chargeback with ccbill once because they decided to charge me after giving me a refund a month earlier. it was their mistake and now i can't use any credit card with ccbill.

so you end up with legit customers not being able to buy because of the processor screwing up. between the credit card companies and the processors, i bet we're losing half of sales or maybe more.

MakeMeGrrrrowl

You guys know....between me and about 50 other phone sex owners we share ALL our information. If I get a charge back, everyone knows and they immediately block that guy and his card.

I don't know why there could not be something like this for paysites and similar sites. We have a HUGE loser list with like 700 people on there, but it's not very well put together. Many are lacking the company who put them there and why. I think that's important, this way you can contact the company and ask them. Sometimes guys just go on the list because they are annoying little fucks!

If someone had the time to put into making a site, with a members section where you could expose all the cheaters, liars, and all their information...I think it would be a great success! Even if there was a small membership fee..10.00 to join or something. There would probably be much less fraud going on, if everyone just kind of stuck together. =)

Just my

reddawg

Exactly! Your a smart cookie
If we built such a site and made it clear that cheaters will end up there, I believe it would make cheaters think alot as they now know they will be exposed and people will know who they are. A humiliating situation and a great deturent and a great resource for webmaster to expose cheaters and look up names before they do business with them. $10.00 a month, I would join it

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MakeMeGrrrrowl

Well dang...I meant 10.00 for a lifetime membership! It would basically be just text...so hosting it would be nothing really.

You'd share your information with others and have them share it with you...and have one central place where people could view all the bad guys.

Right now, I basically just check all the girls sites that are on my e-mail list...I check their loser sections.

ThunderBalls

Exactly, and there lies most of the problem. AMEX started this 'not responsible for online fraud' campaign about 3 years ago and in a matter of months I noticed I was getting all these chargebacks from AMEX cardholders where I was getting virtually none before. Then Visa followed suit and the chargebacks jumped with them. They are basically advertising the fact they will back the consumer in any online transaction dispute.

We get fucked by the govt with taxes, get fucked by the processors and get fucked by the consumers, yet businesses are looked upon as the bad guys.

wolfie

Such boards exist already.
Invitation only.
The data shared between the WM's is invaluable in the fight against fraud.
Online checks is the biggest avenue of fraud by far.
Credit card generators especially from china are a constant source of interest.