harvey

A lot of heat on the subject and pretty understandable. However, I think people is going berserk on these things and pretty off balance. After giving some think on the subject throughout these months, I came to these (non closed and always willing to be revised) conclusions:

* do I think MOST tubes are using illegal content? (being MOST the keyword, as opposed to NOT ALL OF THEM)
yes I do. I know it for a fact and can point to shitloads of illegal content on most big tube sites



* do I think MOST tubes aren't doing shit about it?
yes I do. They all started with illegal content and if they wanted to do something it's as simple as this:

Code:

<?php
$con = mysql_connect("localhost","user","pass");
if (!$con)
  {
  die('Could not connect: ' . mysql_error());
  }

mysql_select_db("my_db", $con);

mysql_query("DELETE FROM whatever_table WHERE User != 'Admin'");

mysql_close($con);
?>

but as we all know, they only delete things once they are caught and only after you send them a DMCA, otherwise they don't give a fuck



* do I think making money off tubes is wrong?

No I don't. I don't know if trafficjunky.net and tube8.com, pornhub and whatever are the same owners. But for what I know, they aren't doing anything illegal, just selling traffic



* do I think GFY is in the wrong?

No I don't. See, I know this is a pretty gray area, and a pretty sensitive subject, but where do you put the stop? I mean, by the sound of it, it looks like this:
TJ supports tubes = thieves
GFY supports TJ = thieves
GFY users supports GFY= thieves
GFY users family supports GFY users = thieves

and so on and so on. Seriously, where do we draw the line?



* do I think TJ will fail with this?

Not at all. I saw it all throughout my 12 years in this business. And one recurring thing I saw year after year after year is the "new doom" and how "everybody will fight it" and how everybody was doing "the new doom" in stealth mode. It never fails.

I'll go further: there are shitloads of adult tube sites and shitloads of adult tube scripts... are you telling me nobody owns those sites and nobody is buying those scripts? really?



* do I think there's money to be made with tubes?

yes I do. Although in the mid term I'm 100% sure they'll kill their own income sources by the own nature of the business model. I wrote a pretty long and explanatory article on this here on GFY so I won't go further than that. I'm still 100% convinced about it and every new day confirms it.



* do I think most GFY are a bunch of hypocrites?
yes I do. and not necessarily because of tubes. There is certain people that makes a stand and live and die for it. It must be like 0.1% of GFY users. The rest of them are just a bunch of hypocrites (when not plain and simply surfers). If in doubt, I'll repeat myself:

Quote:

I'll go further: there are shitloads of adult tube sites and shitloads of adult tube scripts... are you telling me nobody owns those sites and nobody is buying those scripts? really?

* so, do I support tubes?
Nope. As I said, I'm convinced they will kill everybody and then eat themselves unless something new I can't foresee shows up. However, the industry is revolving around this business model, so my only choices are to work with it and see what I can do or simply stop working (or lose 90% of traffic, income, whatever). For most people who doesn't own their own traffic sources or that provide services like scripting, design, etc, there's no room for choices. I don't like paying taxes or getting old, but my options are going to jail or killing myself, so I've to be rational and do whatever is best within some limits. It's not like TJ or GFY are selling crack to kids or stole anything




* so, my beloved fountain of eternal wisdom, should I buy traffic from TJ?

why not? they're offering $100 for free, so try it and see, maybe it's not worse than the usual TGP traffic and maybe you can make some money off it. Personally, I think that everybody and their mothers have already jumped on it while posing as "superior moral" people, with a few exceptions (that 0.1% mentioned above). If your moral, your religion or your sense of justice/ethic/beauty don't let you do that, then all my respect for you and I hope you turn out to be the answer to this fucked up business model. The first part of the previous sentence is a joke, the second part I really mean it






well, pretty much that's it. maybe I'll think on some thing later, but just wanted to give some balanced views, not everything is black or white, there are infinite shades of gray. Or even better: there are other colors. Think outside the box and survive

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Barefootsies

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

Iron Fist

Jesus people... it's JUST a forum... that will make money off your grandmother if she offered. Who fucking cares.

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PastorSinAlot

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Robbie

All that huge amount of traffic (betcha 90% of it is teenage boys who can't buy anything anyway) was built on full scenes and members areas of the very people they are trying to sell traffic back to!

lol!

The skin and the traffic offer are pretty funny. It's obviously designed to send a message to everybody. They don't need to skin GFY for business. Nor do they need to make a free offer of traffic.

They have no need for anybody on here. As I once said before...Brazzers has a traffic source that is bigger than all affiliates put together at this point.

As for the traffic they have? Hey...if it's so great...why sell it? Why not monetize it themselves? Open up some other niche paysites other than just big tits and let the money roll!

Reality is that with ONE BILLION impressions a day they can throw up most anything and make sales. I know I used to when I had 1.2 million uniques a day.

But for some reason they want to sell the traffic...which leads me back to my theory that 90 + % of that is teen boys with no credit card even if they wanted to buy a membership to something (which they don't need to anyway with full scenes right there in front of their steaming naked little eyeballs)

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

GrouchyAdmin

This.

If their traffic was worth anything, they'd be monitizing it, themselves, instead of trying to sell it back to those they're taking it from. Gee, I really want a whole bunch of traffic from people who are expecting 50 minutes of content as a free download.

__________________

batts

WHO CARES.

CyberHustler

* do I care?

no

RK

harvey, what you may not know, or know and don't write, is that the admins are the ones who are actually uploading all the stolen content - NOT THE USERS. So yes, in fact, what they are doing is criminal copyright infringement.

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Dirty Dane

If they made money off the tube surfers, why would they sell the traffic?

harvey

Obviously you care because you're posting, but I won't make you dizzy with so hard to grasp concept

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SomeCreep

Capitalism has no ethics. At least not at the top tiers of any industry. If something is legal and profitable, then it will be done, whether it's right or wrong. Currently, stealing content is legal, so long as one properly exploits DMCA laws.

All these people stealing content and making money with tubes and "girlfriend" sites don't care about what the industry will be like 5 years from now. They figure might as well cash in now while they can, otherwise someone else will, and just worry about the industry later. If it turns to shit, then bail, if not, then keep going.

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Webair Hosting

I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

mmcfadden

i will take all tube traffic

harvey

Pretty valid point and I knew it would come out. First, I'm convinced a priori that the traffic is crap, but testing it for free wouldn't hurt me. In any case, it would confirm my assumption, so no loss.

But let's play some devil's advocate. The same you're saying could be said for TGPs in the last years, if their traffic converted, why would they sell it? I know I had shitloads of sales with TGP traffic. Gee, I made 3 sales in the last 4 hours with a free listing at The Hun. It depends on many factors, but I had horrible experiences with some TGPs and great experiences with other TGPs, it's all trial and error. Going further: why Google sells traffic? Why programs have affiliates? The easy answer is there are advantages and disadvantages in every approach, you measure both and choose a course of action.

Again, I'm sure the traffic is crap, those that know me knows why I say it and I've wrote lots of logical steps on why it won't work in the mid-term for most people including the tube sites themselves. I might be wrong, but that will need to be proven in the future, for now I just can make logical assumptions.


@ RK
I'm trying not to point fingers here, I know what's going on, and some of what I posted was an "elegant" way to say what you're saying

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Robbie

REAL TGP's never sell "traffic" We sell a text link or gallery spots only. I never had the ability to sell "Traffic" How could I command a surfer to go to another site of my choosing?
Answer: I can't. And as a real TGP I never sold any "traffic" I made a lot of money off of text links though. And then a surfer had a choice to click it or not.

Only circle jerks with blind links can sell "traffic" And by "traffic", what I really mean is: Pissed off surfers who clicked a link thinking they were going somewhere and instead went somewhere completely different and/or got a pop-up thrown on them.

Which leads me to another thought...So now PH and T8 are going to start doing blindlinks or pops? Because I don't see them offering text links or banner spots in this promo from "Traffic Junky"

Nope, I see them offering "traffic" (See my definition of that above)

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

marketsmart

robbie hit the nail on the head...

if the traffic was so great, they wouldnt be selling it....

i know from experience what tube traffic converts at..

Fletch XXX

this can be said about any form of traffic purchase LOL

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Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

Traffic Junky

Why Trafficjunky? Cause we think that a broad range of advertiser is more profitable then 2-3 big programs. You had 1.2M Uniques a day, were you pushing only 1 product? I'm sure you were not...and if you would have only pushed 1-2 or even 5 sponsors only would you have made less money... I think so...

If tube traffic is only "teen boys with no CC" then make money of the 10% by trying it you will realize that it converts a lot better then you think... or maybe not... in any case if this was true (90% no CC) then why is everyone complaining since all the CC holders are still "elsewhere" ? The truth is they are on tube sites and they are still buying, better products, better ads...smart advertising is the way of the future... whoever wants to turn big profits should contact us and try it out...

Robbie

Yep.

And here's another thought...Brazzers is an affiliate of most every program that they have stolen content up there for. They signed up for everybody back when they got in the TGP biz a couple of years ago (they are an affiliate of mine as well).

So if that traffic is so valuable...then why don't they simply put their affiliate code on the goddamn videos????? Such valuable traffic would surely sell memberships for all those Naughty America vids.

Of course it won't and they know it. That's why they are trying to sell it.

And who will buy it?

Guys who want to jack up their Alexa ranking so that they can then turn around and sell MORE worthless advertising spots to all the webmasters who WON'T buy the worthless traffic themselves from PH

So don't worry folks...one way or another...if you buy "Traffic" you are gonna get yourself a big heaping bowlful of blindlink that was probably generated in the beginning by the draw of your own stolen content.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Traffic Junky

Wrong again, maybe my thread wasn't properly phrased... We sell ad spots, on page advertising... never blindlinks, maybe pops in the future

Robbie

I pushed and still push hundreds of sponsors. And as far as the 90% + being teenage boys? You bet your ass they are. That's who they were on our TGP's as well. That's always been the dirty little secret of our freesites.

And of course you have people with CC's on your site.

10% of a BILLION impressions a day is a LOT of money.

My 10% of people when I had 1.2 mil uniques a day was a base of 120,000 potential customers on my site with credit cards.

You have WAY more than that. But that doesn't mean your guys surfers are gonna convert. Especially when you are giving them complete movies for free. Why buy what you have given me? Not a few pics, not a minute of two of vid...but the whole thing.

If you really think you can convert it then why aren't you simply just putting your affiliate code with the vids and making sales? If what you are saying is true then you are losing TONS of money by selling "traffic". Right?

And I know much better than you do that the only way to sell "traffic" is to force it.

You want to sell text spots? Or banner ads? Ok. But "Traffic"? Whatever man...

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

Then I misunderstood what you are selling as I was going by what you were saying.
I could have sworn that you said you are giving away $100 worth of "Traffic"

How do you do that exactly? If I sign up you give me an ad spot for free for 15 minutes? Maybe you need to explain it a bit more carefully.

But again...instead of selling ad spots, why not just put your affiliate code with the proper video and be done with it?

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Agent 488

why does every big site sell traffic? guaranteed $ instead of worrying about conversions and the surfer and such. c'mon, this isn't rocket science.

mmcfadden

they sell it cuz it doesn't convert... if it did they would keep it and do revshare.

Robbie

We had some of the biggest sites in the world for about 10 years. We never sold traffic. The Hun never sold traffic.

We all sold text links, banner spots, and gallery placements. But the main emphasis for us was ALWAYS on selling memberships. So your off base by your statement. The only "big" sites that sold "traffic" were the ones whose numbers were artificial from all the circle jerking they were doing back and forth. And trust me...I dealt with all of those circle jerk sites at one time or another because they would send me 100,000 hits a day in return for me to give them an honest text link that might generate them 4 to 5 thousand uniques a day of actual surfers.

And after seeing what their traffic was...I without fail would write them and end our agreement. What use was 100,000 fake hits to me? And in return I was sending them 4 to 5 thousand unique pieces of gold.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

stever

robbie they sell banner spots

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Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

Nicky

It seem's they sell ad spots based on cost per click though. Other than that Robbie is on the money as usual.

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Robbie

He corrected himself on that in a reply to me. Still have to ask....why don't they just use their affiliate code on the vids they stole? Instead of stretching the bottom of the vid out when they encode it and removing every chance that the original person who invested their time, money, and took the risks involved with shooting porn of ever making even a sale from a type in?

That's a rhetorical question by the way.

They have amassed huge amounts of traffic off of other peoples work. Okay.

Then they are going to sell those same companies the traffic that was generated via their own stolen content. Uhhhh

And then they are going to offer you $100 worth of "free traffic" built on your own work. Nice.

My question still remains...if I claim my "free traffic" that was built off of all of the other producers here (my shit ain't on Pornhub ) then how do they give me One Hundred Dollars worth? Do I just pull my website up to the pump and they fill 'er up? lol

Or do I get one of those ad spots for 30 minutes? If none of you guys are gonna get mad about me getting a free ad spot on pornhub and having them put my ad right above YOUR content to send traffic to me....then I'll take them up on that offer.

The only reason I have a problem here is the damage that they have done to my affiliate work. They have ZERO effect on my paysite. My shit sells no matter how much generic porn scenes with Sara Jay and Puma Swede they pack up there for free.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

PornMD

Go into the domain biz. Our industry actually did something when widespread piracy of sorts was happening (referring to domain kiting aka repeated domain tasting and the ensuing setup of fees for it followed by prohibition of it when the fees didn't work). Much better ROIs than you'd ever get in adult anyways.

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Robbie

Really? My only "investment" in dollars over the years is paying my server bill each month. Looking through stats remote I see I made 3.5 million dollars since 2003 (that's as far back as stats remote goes) I've been doing this since the mid-90's so let's say I've made around 7 million dollars with ZERO real investment. How's that for ROI compared to domains?

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

SleazyDream

prepaid credit cards in todays' world make teenage boys more and more possible paying clients.....

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SleazyDream

soo true - been there soo many times

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harvey

Robbie, as usual your views and will to discuss things in an intelligent informed way is always refreshing. I think it's not news that you're in that "0.1%" I mentioned above, I already told you in a couple of threads. However, I think that when we talk about traffic I guess we're talking about banner placement and text links (as opposed to blind links, pop-up/under, 404, whatever)

Anyway, it's nice to see how this discussion evolved, although my point was to put some balance on GFY having this skin and everybody yelling because sky is falling down.

For the record, if anyone is in doubt about what do I think about tubes, here it is. All these things being said, everybody has to cool down and draw an strategy, whether it's playing with, without, against or in an alternative way to tubes. I never saw a battle won by crying and complaining, and quite honestly, I don't take anyone that 'cries and do nothing' seriously, most people with this behavior uses to be copycats and band-wagoners that are just waiting to see how the wind blows

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Carmine Raguso

Tube traffic is worse than CJ taffic. It's crap. It's like trying to sell a full priced Rolex watch to someone that already was given the same model on the street 5 minutes ago. Fucking useless.

Dating site? Fuck that. Cams? POSSIBLY, POSSIBLY.

Traffic Junky

So are you implying that Rolex's sales are down because of "fake" sold in the street... In the end quality sales... not sure which tube traffic and what delivery method you used to say that it doesn't convert... I know we do when we put affiliate links to various sponsors including porn paysites (not only cams or dating) and to answer as to why we don't put affiliate links, we do... just the amount of traffic is so big that we'd rather have skilled advertisers monetizing it for us and making a share of the profit.

fusionx

I think it really means that it's hard to sell a rolex when you are giving them away free. Not fake rolexs, real ones. That's what pornhub and tube8 and their ilk do.