while he is doing well with his site on thehun paid spots like there was 2003-07 again and its his own site. from what i have talked to him, even the other guys are lucky to earn what they paid for on pornhub and they are all owners, so they dont share the income.

its not as rosy as you described it.

There in lies the entire problem today... margins. The mega tube site owners ctr is prob so shitty that his bw kills him. Certainly he would lower price IF he could.

Were all paying for his bw one way or another. The tube biz model has fucked up margins across the board by deluding the piss out of non search traffic to the point that only guys with mega traffic can squeek out a living on today's margins.

Here is the bottom line, in my opinion. For every surfer that joins a paysite through a tube site, 10 other tube site surfers that used to join paysites, will not. So for every 1 dollar generated by tube sites, the industry as a whole loses 10 dollars.

even with 50 a day you could be loosing your ass on big tubes as the cost of advertisment are a bit higher.

Making money in the free market is never easy, never has been. Affiliates for sure get the short end of the stick. If you buy a pre-paid slot, that's an affiliate - money is split either way. The only real winner is the tube site owner, how most traffic works though :/

You "assume" that surfers can't be sold once they found a tube. That's crazy talk.

Your problem is, you can't market to people on the tube, thus you can't sell them.

They can damn sure be sold... porn freak, piracy loving, stealing nut cases that swear they will never buy porn again... will buy again.

Pornhub claims they have over 10,000,000 uniques per day.

That's one income source. Assume they sold the spot, the tube is often the winner in the deal leaving the paysite owner to make sure they monetize fully. Then they have dating, paid videos, banner spots, self content uploads, branding, etc...

Not all, but most of the big illegal tubes are clearly owned by paysites or other big networks of sites. The cost is simply absorbed helping lower the cost of everything else.

other than the short time I set my skim to 10% to do a test and the site grew to 220k/day... my traffic has been fairly stable... granted I don't have as much traffic on this site as those older tgps... but I run 200 sites.
http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...aked8teens.com

I agree, there is a percentage of surfers who continue to buy porn memberships even after they've been exposed to tube sites. That does not negate the fact that there is a much larger percentage of surfers who stop buying porn memberships once they've been exposed to tubes. How else would you explain the drastic secular decline in our industry? It's the tubes.

Your point seems to be that there is money to be made from tubes and I agree with that. My point is that overall, for every 1 dollar generated by these tube sites, the industry as a whole loses 10 dollars.

I disagree. If the graphs only show the trends, they tell the truth.

Freeones's traffic is on the slip. Are you saying tubes are good for this business? It sounds like you are. I am with Carmine. You are an idiot.

I like how you slipped in data from 2007-2008, we are in the 2nd half of 2009 buddy.

"I'd like to know what tubesite out there can post a link around a movie and make 100 sales a day"


Robbie- I'm skeptical of that myself.. bigtime. I'm sure tube sites can produce sales, but 100 a day is alot obviously.

but I would like to just see tubes sites posting links around movies. Period- as a starter.

My biggest irritation and head scratcher w the tubes is that they don't involve the paysites at all- they could be getting a good chunk of sales. And we'd be getting something out of the deal- but the bulk of them are just blowing through bandwidth giving away everything they can leaving tons of potential income on the table.

People can say what they will about oneclicktube, but I think his model is alot better than say Tube8.. I don't have a problem giving a tubesite that will market my paysite, some 3 minute clips. To me, thats just a modern day version of the FHG, with viral possibilites. Same goes for Snizzshare.. thats the model right there.


So any tube site owners reading this- ask yourself: "Am I accepting 3-5min clips from paysites and putting up banners and links to the program around the video?"

Because if you aren't you are leaving easy money on the table.

How many cam sites is a guy really gonna join? Give the surfers some options.

but having clips on a tube site with no links back whatsoever.. whats the point

It's an old screenshot from my blog and later I linked the current range, which you can go check at complete.. 2008 Dec is the peak for them, feb dropped - which happened last year too, and they continue to grow. Look it up yourself at complete.com


Stop being pissed because you don't get it.

My org point was that using Alexa to gauge tubes vs tgps doesn't tell you anything of value. Not how many sales, money, if they suck or not..

Adding to that, using Alexa and thinking something is going down is traffic, isn't wise. The traffic graphs you see are crap. Alexa "is a browser plugin" that is "dropping" on US/UK/AU/CA sources and increasing on Asian sources.

What you see happening in tubes can be duplicated, faked... XXXjay - Are you going to tell me nobody has tried to sell you traffic to fake your Alexa ranking? Difference is, tubes aren't faking it.. but the "reason" it can be faked, is why they look so holy large.


SomeCreep to your comment on the 1 to 10... At this point, you are correct it is prob something like that. But that's only because we can't reach the people at mass levels.

Things would be very different if the biggest of tubes openly shared the traffic and owners uploaded big videos... things would work more like a gallery posts do, just the rules would be different.

Listen clownshoes, the fact is that what I posted shows that LEGITIMATE TGPs that used to generate money for this industry in a legimate manner without stealing people's hard earned work HAVE TANKED in traffic numbers. WHAT I HAVE SHOWN is that PAYSITES that used to PAY THESE PEOPLE THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY's traffic has also TANKED.

Whatin God's good fucking name do you NOT understand? You are like talking to a brick fucking wall. Here, I have a sticker for your helmet.

Yawn... they where tanking before tubes came around ass hat.

Great thread :glugglug

No excuse. Traffic may have been on the decline for numerous reason, but not the way they tanked. Look at the graphs again Sherlock. Look when the tubes spawned and look when the TGPs died. If you can not see that? I seriously hope you never have children and if you do? I hope there is a grown adult around to watch them

Nice try though. The only thing you have proved is that you are a newfag that has been arouns since what? 2000? Have a few failed TGPs, some of which you let the domains just go... and you are going to school who on what?

Go back to your douchebaggery of a blog nobody reads and whine there about it.

Hurr durr
http://www.doodlestop.com/durr.jpg

I love it when I shut people down..

That is a nasty fact people like to skip out on.

Tubes are only like 2 years old, maybe 1 is a little older. So your little attack.. is getting shut down now.



This downtrend we are talked about is NOT 2-3 years old. The "peak" is older than Tubes.

It's more like when the first 2257 regulations came out. That's the spark of the down trend.. 911 too.. then add in the rest the crap over the years, and it never got better.

This has been blamed on Bush, War, 911, Eco, Piracy even then, 2257, other gov legal crap, Xsales, Upsells, Scams, Carding and the list goes on - all before tubes came around.

If anything... today's stats show things starting to level out... in many areas and people starting to reverse last years downtrend. I see that posted often on gfy and I have seen it in several various sets of stats.

Now the Eco is kicking the majority in the balls and you guys can't stop fucking pointing fingers long enough to see or remember, that porn has already changed like 10 times online.. and it's going to continue doing so. So sitting still, ever.. in this industry is a huge f'in mistake.

No go look at your examples... and who never changed? vs new sites, new ideas, big network sites, that don't have the same trends.

It's not everyone, not every affiliate program is down, not every legal free site is down... many are growing, doing great.. seeing more profits, sales, etc than ever.

The tides changed.. but a new one is always coming in.

Examples... Myself Shap and others help kickstart CJ's... Think if we still did that exact same sites today, doing the same thing?

Before that, I had windows based search engine spammer submitting to Infoseek and Altavista. Would really suck to still be doing that.

Think if CE still had ran every ones sales, hand paid people, or RC still sent daily fed-ex checks, or nobody ever got cascade billing.

No xsales... no exits, no $35pps no $100 bonus days... no special ways for programs to make up sales that still confuse Affiliates to death.

My gosh... Sooooooooooo much has changed?

--
Yet, people can't figure out why gallery posts, that look the same, do the same, run the same bs, same features are failing.. hell, statistically - they should. But they blame something, just like I did with SE's and Circle Jerk sites.

You Can't Stay The Same In This Business Or You Will Die!
--

Anyone buying traffic from GTS? I bet they are happy to be busting down some new traffic streams.

It never goes away.. it never stops. Just the the controllers do.

FYI: SleazyTube.com domain is for sale. If you want it contact me!

What would you know about TGP or tube sites? :1orglaugh

Alexa has and still is a pretty damn accurate traffic indicator. Always matches up well with my server stats - of course not perfectly but well enough. If a site is getting garbage Asian or South American traffic Alexa shows it.

People with shitty Alexa rankings always have an excuse for why their stats suck and somebody else's are better - cuz they're embarassed.

I'm sure some cockholsters in this industry know how to inflate their Alexa's so they can rip off some newbs or maybe just to impress others.

hhaha :1orglaugh .. spot on

I have to be honest...I have spoke to a lot of program owners, face to face and man to man. I've even looked at a few peoples NATS with them. I have not found one big mega paysite program owner who is "seeing more profits, sales, etc. than ever" Not one.

I've seen a lot of people doing marketing and hoping that there is a big whale out here that might read them claiming that and become their affiliate and save the day.

But TheDoc, I have to tell you...those big guys are in trouble. I have watched with my own eyes what has happened. As an affiliate, it started for me in the second half of 2006. Coincidentally right about the time that tubes and torrents first started to grow.

Alexa doesn't show back far enough to tell the real tale. But I watched my traffic fall from a little over one million uniques a day down to the 600,000 uniques a day range within a couple of months in the last part of 2006.

It didn't bother me because I was still making over a million dollars a year just on affiliate sales.

By the end of 2007 it was in complete free fall and the tubes and torrents were taking over.

And then near the end of 2008, the rebills stopped as people just quit spending money (economy + everything free)

If I were still an affiliate only I would be in the poor house.

I'm sure that there are one or two exceptions to the rule for paysites...hell, I'm one of them, though I'm not "seeing more profits, sales, etc. than ever" but not losing ground either.

But I was KILLING it in Jan. of 2008 with the paysite. Making more money than I ever had with Claudia-Marie.com And good thing because my affiliate sales to other sites were dropping like those alexa graphs.

I have busted ass and monetized things to the point where I am still kicking it. But this bullshit has set me back hard. I'm nowhere near the revenue that I should have been at by now.

And many of the big programs that keep this business alive have watched their profits drop to the point that they can no longer sustain the large number of people working for them. Content producers are going down, many companies that were shooting 3 to 4 scenes a day/ 5 days a week are no longer shooting.

I'm really at a loss to see how or why you think that everything is just peachy.

This is kinda reminding me of that "Baghdad Bob" guy. "Everything is fine"

Tubesites don't sell porn. They sell cams and dating. I think this is the big problem.

obviously what they were not intended to do............

I thought the point of their being was to DRIVE traffic back for SALES!

:2 cents:

I was thinking the same thing. He made his point. It is important to remember there are some people still doing well.

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?&w=40...htyamerica.com

Its because you guys NEVER evolve...you think that your sites will sell FOREVER...i dont care if you are selling midgets,trannies...whatever the niche however small.....IT IS STILL an antiquated system...once you realize that....adapt your marketing....and sell what the people want...or else ALL your paysites and the paysites in 99% of programs will STILL suck and people WONT join.....the days of the easy buck are over....everything is new..and the ones that get it will be the ones that last....pretty simple really.......its not the tubes that dictate the market....its the surfers that made the tubes.....they are simply providing what users want.....go point your fingers at youtube for starting the whole thing....users demand full length fast downloads.....the problem is stolen content.....but to blame the decline of the industry on a new medium is pretty small minded.....tubes are here to stay.....you all need to adapt your biz models....why on earth would anyone pay full membership fees for an adult site when MOST OF THEM SUCK.....maybe in 1997 before on demand.....before youtube...before hulu and realtime streaming video.....but today?? no way...they want it fast...they want it free and they want it now.....now you just need to sell them something while they are there......

I'm just a casual observer, but why do people continually use "Alexa" as their choice of defining traffic? It's definitely not because they have the best graphs. So why? Is there no other ruler?

its not exact but its generally close

yep started gaining again since they switched to tube layout.

Well the GFY has a lot of people telling stories, a few that posted stats too. And I know Duke Dollars is rockin it.. the man posted it himself, record year several months so far and I will proudly confirm it.

I know people kicking ass today, often don't admit it because our industry is the copy freaks of the Internet. If you come up with a half ass decent niche and someone gets wind of it... it's copied 10 times over.

I would say to these people.... Stop looking for affiliates and start looking for people with credit cards. Things change... this has changed too.


You had a hell of a run... the problem was you quit building. One or a handful of properties won't last forever, at least not with out more being built to support it.


How many new sites have you created to support this major site?

Have you opened yourself up to social networks in a large way, and used them to feed your other social network/bookmark sites, and reached out to your Visitors to build a relationship with them?

You stated on a trend.. did you follow the along or stop?


Torrents were going far before 2007 along with piracy... which was just as big if not bigger, it was for sure in the media more before 2006.


Everything free isn't what's doing it.. eco is a bitch, but people still have money. The question is, are you reaching new people or the same old people?

And credit card fraud, hundreds of millions of card cancels, super hurricanes and massive floods, fires, and natural disasters, fires in eu.. talking what, a few 100 million people at least, displaced?

Agreed 1000 times over... same here. Having your own product, at least one tiny thing, is key.

Affiliates.. what is your ratio of affiliate sales vs. internal sales?

Way back in the day we had CE, Xpics, Intergal and even Maxcash.. to TCG, Python and so on.. The leaders of our Industry have continually fallen. Some get up, others don't.

Because if one program can do 500 sales a day and you are bitching that you can't get your sales up.. well it means, you are doing something wrong.. not that someone is taking something away from you.

I also know for a fact people still spend money, in America and all over the world.. Just because the trends changed and the money moved, doesn't mean it's dead, bad or dieing...

Everything is more than peachy.. it's super green.


Not sure who that is.. I don't get on the TV much, too busy following trends :)

Quantity does not equal quality. AskJolene's traffic used to be bomb and convert better than Adwords, I doubt it will continue to after surfers have unloaded on a few of those 25 minute videos.

:2 cents:

LOL! I hope that when you said "you guys" you weren't talking to me. I've been ahead of the pack for the last dozen years online.

In case you didn't know...I made Claudia-Marie.Com into the first true Tube/Paysite about 6 months ago. The tour and the members area. Add in the fact that I also did LIVE streaming sex shows (HARDCORE b/g) since the the fall of 2007 along with her forum and "regular" nude webcam chat with members and you are definitely not talking to me. We do good. But the big generic sites? Times are hard on them.

So what have YOU done to "evolve" OldSchoolJim? I love hearing new ideas and new ways to implement things. :)

Shut people down? They probably got sick of replying to your inane bullshit.

If you can't look at those graphs and see what is going on then you have really lost it.

Doc, how bigga tube you run. :)

Cool! I personally never made a lot promoting their stuff, but I'm always happy to hear somebody is doing well.

Maybe. But I'm talking personal friends of mine that own a lot of big programs. And when I'm sitting there man to man with them and they tell me what they are seeing in sales, not to mention all the ICQ's I've gotten from people formerly employed and now asking me for work, I have to think the majority are NOT kicking ass.

That's not true at all. We were always working and always pushing to make our stuff the best. From creating entire porn parody comedy sites to implementing "web 2.0" before we even knew what it meant...we were constantly changing and coming up with new things to entertain people. When the tubes and torrents started taking our traffic we didn't even understand what was happening. Matter of fact, it led to the dissolution of my former partnership. My partners thought I was doing something to cause us to lose traffic! LOL! The arguments over that led to a split. Little did we know that in Nov. of 2006 we were just seeing the beginning of what we have today. We had no idea what a "torrent" was.


Answer is "yes". I was on top of myspace when it first came out...pushing our tgps. There is and was ZERO interest in us. Conversely I have pushed CM on myspace, twitter, and facebook with EXCELLENT results. But again, the things we do are a little different on that site and apparently meet the needs of the big tit niche in a different way than what is out there currently.


Difference is...nobody knew about them on a major scale. Not one person that I knew in 2006 had any idea what a "torrent" was. These days? Every person that has a computer knows what they are...and knows that the entire members areas of most paysites are ripped on them.

[QUOTE=TheDoc;16064907]
Affiliates.. what is your ratio of affiliate sales vs. internal sales?[QUOTE]
I just looked at NATS. In the last 10 minutes I had 4 sales come in. 3 were type ins, 1 from an affiliate.


Okay, so all those companies cutting back on shooting new scenes and all the people who are now looking for work in the porn biz because they got laid off is an indication of good times? Hell, I think the big companies are still bloated. I can do everything I do with just me and my programmer. But still...apparently there was enough fat on the bone until now to be way overbloated for those companies...but not anymore. Wonder why? Because everything is "super green"?

Now you're pulling my leg. :) He was the guy who worked as publicist for Saddam when we invaded Iraq and our troops were inside of Baghdad and he was appearing on televison claiming that they were winning the war. lol

how can anyone pretend to deny that tubes are effecting the industry and not for the better? Give away tons of free shit and see how much they pay for?

If you do something right and you master it...it's damn hard for anybody to copy it. "Often imitated, NEVER duplicated" is a good mantra.

Otherwise we'd all just open a tube site and fill it with full length vids and have 10 million uniques a day. Or we'd all just make model pages like Freeones and have their traffic. Or you could just find a big tit blonde and film her fucking and take me down. And while people are at it they could just learn the guitar licks from all the Van Halen albums and be a millionaire rock star.

You know it ain't like that.

Haha another tube bashing thread.

It's not rocket science guys, those sites that have falling traffic much like linklists haven't really updated their old 1998 methods. Adapt or die, pretty simple. The very nature of surfing has changed, and tube surfers do buy when they see some good content.

Assume I have never owned a tube or any adult free sites, ever. Does that change anything that I have said?

You can't believe for a second that their is more money in porn now then in 2006. Everyone needs to be positive and move forward, I agree but this is just a lie and you are too smart to not know that.

adapt or die

you think the people at the VHS rental store are still bitching? no, they now rent DVDs.

again... adapt or die

Actually finding a video rental store is pretty tough these day's