CCBILL Sponsor's Rebills... - GoFuckYourself.com

Lamis · 01-04-2009, 05:02 AM

Is this ULTRA LOW retention NORMAL with CCBILL Sponsors???

I can't believe how low the initial retention is... With any other sponsor is at least 50%.. AT LEAST!!

And here from 30 initial signups, only 3 members rebilled???

Paychecks ain't going to grow with so low retention.

MrDeiz · 01-04-2009, 05:17 AM

ccbill became unpredictable nowadays...
retention, sign ups, trials - all is totally unpredictable for me there...

as far as frequent mistakes in reports....

some sign ups are in transaction section, but aren't in conversions, etc. or there're sign up entries with $0 value, which disappear later...

it's still better than most of nats programs for me, but it's very suspicious

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 05:21 AM

a) billing companies dont matter when it comes to rebills (it does matter for initial signups)

b) tgp traffic and se traffic etc effect the type of joins and rebills etc

c) surfer know their shit in these days, you push junk sites they cancel in 2 seconds, you will know how junky it was when in a month you see chargebacks

d) 50% rebills is real good, and not common in these days, but if you push good programs with real updates and the traffic is quality on a 29.95 revshare join long term youll see on avg of 80 bucks profit thats as of nov 08

After Shock Media · 01-04-2009, 05:26 AM

What escortbiz said plus - be really picky when pushing sponsors on revshare that have trials. If they do not have much content and do not update enough members quickly learn to buy a trial, cancel and rejoin in a few months to grab updates.

clickyclick · 01-04-2009, 06:30 AM

I notice the same thing with my ccbill acount. Not only do I have low rebill last month but my clicks count is down even when my traffic is way up.

Lamis · 01-04-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

a) billing companies dont matter when it comes to rebills (it does matter for initial signups)

b) tgp traffic and se traffic etc effect the type of joins and rebills etc

c) surfer know their shit in these days, you push junk sites they cancel in 2 seconds, you will know how junky it was when in a month you see chargebacks

d) 50% rebills is real good, and not common in these days, but if you push good programs with real updates and the traffic is quality on a 29.95 revshare join long term youll see on avg of 80 bucks profit thats as of nov 08

Hello, I am infact promoting a very good site. And I know your sponsor is good, that's why I'm wondering about CCBILL. Not the site. Been promoting the same site for over a year and did some good signups hoping to increase my paycheck every month.. But no luck so far, BECAUSE THE RETENTION SUCKS TOO MUCH. All the hard work I did with this specific site for nothing. Paycheck amounts remain the same because THERE IS NO RETENTION.

Does anybody know if the sponsor can increase the percentage in CCBILL? They are currently giving me 50% revshare. Can a sponsor increase the percentage to 60% or 65% once the webmaster has been promoting the program for over 1 year?

femdomdestiny · 01-04-2009, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

Is this ULTRA LOW retention NORMAL with CCBILL Sponsors???

I can't believe how low the initial retention is... With any other sponsor is at least 50%.. AT LEAST!!

And here from 30 initial signups, only 3 members rebilled???

Paychecks ain't going to grow with so low retention.

Check my post here regarding conversions

biskoppen · 01-04-2009, 08:29 AM

Not enough sales for a real pattern there... but low, yes

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 10:42 AM

To answer one of your questions, yes, a sponsor can go in and change your payout percentage but you're probably going to want to be send more sales than you've indicated before you contact them about that.

Now, onto the 10% retention. That is a huge red flag in my book. Just the normal percentage of guys who forget or are too lazy to cancel a membership should be higher than 10%. In fact, in my opinion, the absolute worst rebilling sponsors should rebill in the 40% range.

I think it's in your best interest to do some digging into this. I believe you can go into CCBill stats and look up a particular subscription ID and see when a member cancelled. See if you see a pattern. If they're all cancelling the same day they sign up, then there may be an issue with the content.

I'm glad you didn't say the sponsor so this doesn't look like I'm bagging on a competitor but I would look into the possibility that the sponsor is going into the subscription and clicking on a button that stops you from getting paid on renewals. I have absolutely no proof that that is what is happening. Just giving you my input from a ccbill sponsor program owner.

Anyway, the bottom line is that 10% retention sends up a HUGE red flag in my book. Were I in your shoes I would do some digging into the reasons.

Good luck to you.

Steve

CamTraffic · 01-04-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

Is this ULTRA LOW retention NORMAL with CCBILL Sponsors???

I can't believe how low the initial retention is... With any other sponsor is at least 50%.. AT LEAST!!

And here from 30 initial signups, only 3 members rebilled???

Paychecks ain't going to grow with so low retention.

I am right there with you

cybermike · 01-04-2009, 11:40 AM

sorry but you are dreaming for 50% initial rebills.. 20-30% is pretty normal/good these days unless you are pushing something ultraniche

AZNNC · 01-04-2009, 11:41 AM

MY REBILLS ARE SHIT right now!
I lost about 20% of my rebills from November to December.
And I am almost getting no rebills this month.
Did something change? People's credit cards all expire Dec 31st?
wtf?

alias · 01-04-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

. ..
I'm glad you didn't say the sponsor so this doesn't look like I'm bagging on a competitor but I would look into the possibility that the sponsor is going into the subscription and clicking on a button that stops you from getting paid on renewals. I have absolutely no proof that that is what is happening. Just giving you my input from a ccbill sponsor program owner.
.. .
Steve

CLICK.

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZNNC

MY REBILLS ARE SHIT right now!
I lost about 20% of my rebills from November to December.
And I am almost getting no rebills this month.
Did something change? People's credit cards all expire Dec 31st?
wtf?

even if peoples card expires the new card takes over rebills, I know it sounds crazy but thats how it works

but what did happen is banks are chopping peoples credit line and also taking away peoples cars, today there is a story of amex taking away a amex plat from someone even thou they made payments ontime (amex felt because that persons score changed since they took out a loan its best if they shut the persons card down).

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042009...led_147081.htm

and here you can see that even for good customers banks are cutting the lines

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz...cut_credi.html

So if you have someone with a 5000 credit limit that had 3200 of their card being used for stuff and the bank cut their limit to 2500 all of a sudden they are seriously fucked, and yes this is happening to millions of americans

Kimmykim · 01-04-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

Now, onto the 10% retention. That is a huge red flag in my book. Just the normal percentage of guys who forget or are too lazy to cancel a membership should be higher than 10%. In fact, in my opinion, the absolute worst rebilling sponsors should rebill in the 40% range.

40% is dreaming of the year 2000.

And people don't forget or get too lazy that much any more. With the credit situation the way it is, people are looking at their cc statements and bank statements very closely.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

40% is dreaming of the year 2000.

I respectfully disagree with this. If I had a sponsor who wasn't rebilling at at least 40% I would drop them. If my own site was rebilling at under 40% I would shut it down. Ok, maybe not at 40% but at 30% I would shut it down.

I don't want to oversell my own site or CCBill. They are what they are. Everyone has their own experience with their programs and processors. I'm simply trying to provide valuable information to the OP based on my personal experience.

I only promote my own site and three others that I feel are a good match to mine. The thought process being that I want to promote my own site first and foremost, but for those that don't want to join my own site, I give them some alternatives so that I can maximize my traffic.

I am not going to say my rebill % cuz everyone will say I'm lying anyway but 10-20% is way way out of whack based on my own numbers and based on discussions I've had with other program owners with sites similar to mine.

Now, as I write all of this keep in mind that I'm assuming that the initial signups are full month subscriptions and not $1.99 trials. I don't do trials so I have no experience with them. CCBill stat screenshot is vague on this cuz CCBill labels all initial sales a trial sale whether it's a full month subscription or a real trial subscription. If the OP is saying that he's selling trials and their rebilling at 10%, then that would make more sense as he's catering to people who's surfing habits are to sign up for trial memberships and cancel before the initial rebill. One would think that he'd get a much higher ratio of signups but a much lower ratio of rebills. Then his stats would make total sense.

But, if he's talking about full month initial subscriptions, then based on my personal experience, those stats are way out of whack.

crockett · 01-04-2009, 01:12 PM

You really have to pick the sites you promote with ccbill. The rebills don't have anything to do with if it's ccbill or some other 3rd party. I have some ccbill rebills that have gone 24 months. A lot of ccbill sites suck because pretty much anyone can toss a pay site together with out a lot of investment.

The biggest draw back with ccbill is it seems sales have went to shit. I went from doing 30 to 40 sales a month the start of this year with 2 or 3 ccbill sites down to being lucky to hit 10 sales the last few months.

Meanwhile some of my other stuff has actually increased with sales on the same traffic.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

the sponsor is going into the subscription and clicking on a button that stops you from getting paid on renewals.

Ding, ding. If everyone thinks back, that has always been done by some sponsors with cc bill. And with the economy taking a nose dive, I'm guessing it's gonna start happening a lot more.

As a paysite owner, I can tell you that making a handful of dollars off of a $34.99 sale and watching the lions share go to affiliates is a neccesary but painful reality. So I can definitely see some program owners that bill exclusive ccbill just going in and limiting the rebill to the affiliate. It's a great way to increase their profit by 50% instantly. Not so good for the affiliate.

Iron Fist · 01-04-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

Hello, I am infact promoting a very good site. And I know your sponsor is good, that's why I'm wondering about CCBILL. Not the site. Been promoting the same site for over a year and did some good signups hoping to increase my paycheck every month.. But no luck so far, BECAUSE THE RETENTION SUCKS TOO MUCH. All the hard work I did with this specific site for nothing. Paycheck amounts remain the same because THERE IS NO RETENTION.

And then people wonder why affiliates flock to $100+ PPS when this shit keeps happening. The sponsors can only blame themselves. Wouldn't everyone benefit if you ran a program with regular updates and model interaction? Seems to me that you wouldn't need to put a whole lot of effort to keep surfers happy, and the ROI would be better than ditching the site and having to recruit and start up a whole new one. But that's just me.

Iron Fist · 01-04-2009, 02:05 PM

Also don't forget credit card fraud is getting worse every year. If a card is pulled due to the owner calling in and calling it stolen, that card is cancelled, and any rebills from that person is gone.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 02:10 PM

And sadly, I just checked with CCBill Client Support and they told me there is no way for an affiliate to find out if the customer cancelled or if the sponsor pulled the rebill.

I hesitated even posting this cuz I didn't want to give anyone any ideas but it is the truth and the truth is what we're all after. Any sponsor who would pull that bullshit already knows about it anyway, I'm sure.

Steve Hardeman ‎(15:49):
Hi
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:49):
hello
what can i assist you with today?
Steve Hardeman ‎(15:50):
Question, is there a way for me, as an affiliate, to check to see whether a cancelled subscription was cancelled by the subscriber or by the sponsor?
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:50):
No there is no way you can check that.

Altheon · 01-04-2009, 02:48 PM

I agree that there are sales patterns that I can not explain. It's a little early to assign blame but in the end the least converting sponsors will lose 100% of my traffic if things don't change regardless of biller.

femdomdestiny · 01-04-2009, 04:02 PM

I had two sales today with them and one is already cancelled.What is void?

PixelBucks · 01-04-2009, 04:06 PM

I would say it's 20-30% average... of course we can all make mad claims... yeah yeah my program rebills at 89% the other 11% die !

Let's be honest most sign up and cancell 5 minutes later ! They then download the sites entire content onto their hard drive... stay away for 2-3 months then come back and repeat...

The question is what does the sponsor do to keep their members... we are about to add a load of value added stuff for the surfer... also webcam shows are good as you just cant download that...

Anyways if anyone wants to give us a spin feel free

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by femdomdestiny

I had two sales today with them and one is already cancelled.What is void?

That typically means that the charge was determined to be fraudulent after it was accepted and processed.

You guys rebilling at 10 and 20% I feel for you. Let me put my money where my mouth is. You promote BrokeAmateurs.com and don't rebill at a bare spanking minimum of 40% or better, I'll write you a check for the difference. Not kidding. That applies to anyone. New or existing affiliates.

Now, don't be sending me three sales, one rebills and I end up owing you $5. Not worth my time. But if you send.....oh.... I don't know, let's make it easy....you send me 10 sales in a month and you rebill less than 4 of them, I'll write you a check for the difference. I'm not fucking kidding. You send me 1000 sales in a month and don't rebill 400 of them or better, I'll write you a check for the difference. Guaranteed 40% rebills. Can't beat it. I had no idea how bad it was out there for some affiliates.

Lamis · 01-04-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

I would look into the possibility that the sponsor is going into the subscription and clicking on a button that stops you from getting paid on renewals. I have absolutely no proof that that is what is happening. Just giving you my input from a ccbill sponsor program owner.

Steve

WHAT???? CAN the sponsor DO THAT????? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE??????

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 06:06 PM

there is no way for a program owner to login and say this affiliate should no longer get commission from a specific signup

no such thing

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

WHAT???? CAN the sponsor DO THAT????? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE??????

You log in and do it. lol

But seriously...yes, the sponsor can do anything they want. If I wanted to I could just go in and remove an affiliate and keep everything they ever sent. Wouldn't be the smartest thing to do long term business-wise, but it can easily be done.

Or I could change the payout to whatever I wanted. Or even put it on a sliding scale. For instance if you send a lot of daily traffic to AFF you're percentage goes up on sales. If you don't send much it goes down.

The sponsor is the OWNER and can do whatever they want to. But it's never good to fuck over members of your team...meaning affiliates in this case. But as I said earlier...I expect to see more and more of that happening as the economy tanks and some people panic.

After Shock Media · 01-04-2009, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PixelBucks

I would say it's 20-30% average... of course we can all make mad claims... yeah yeah my program rebills at 89% the other 11% die !

Let's be honest most sign up and cancell 5 minutes later ! They then download the sites entire content onto their hard drive... stay away for 2-3 months then come back and repeat...

The question is what does the sponsor do to keep their members... we are about to add a load of value added stuff for the surfer... also webcam shows are good as you just cant download that...

Anyways if anyone wants to give us a spin feel free

No you are very right. To top it off many sites have trials like I said. Not even limited trials either but full on access to every piece of content trials. They can join for 2.99 or whatever. Cancel 5 minutes later. Then rip the entire site with the 10-15mbps connection. If they like the material they will come back in several months via a type in or bookmark - sign up for a new trial and then rip the new stuff.

Why pay 24.99 when you can rip a whole site for 2.99? Then who in their right mind will sit around and wait for 4 updates a month for an additional 5 bucks a week, when they can go rip some other sites and just come back in 4 months to rip your 16 latest updates to add to what they already have, assuming they like it and want it?

This really is another case for streaming if one even thinks about it.

Oh as for a minimum of 40% retention on rebills, that is doing pretty damn well. I am fairly happy to see most sites that pull 30% nowadays.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

This really is another case for streaming if one even thinks about it.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

This really is another case for streaming if one even thinks about it.

Oh as for a minimum of 40% retention on rebills, that is doing pretty damn well. I am fairly happy to see most sites that pull 30% nowadays.

I definitely think streaming is the way to go but I haven't gone there yet. I suppose if I ever become bigger I'll be forced to do it for exactly the reason you stated above but for now I don't need to.

As for 40% retention.... I put my money where my mouth is.

Lamis · 01-04-2009, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

there is no way for a program owner to login and say this affiliate should no longer get commission from a specific signup

no such thing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You log in and do it. lol

But seriously...yes, the sponsor can do anything they want. If I wanted to I could just go in and remove an affiliate and keep everything they ever sent. Wouldn't be the smartest thing to do long term business-wise, but it can easily be done.

Hmmm.. I am confused now.

Can the Sponsor do that or not? What is the truth???

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

Hmmm.. I am confused now.

Can the Sponsor do that or not? What is the truth???

I am logged into admin now I looked everywhere, there is no such thing as me taking a subscription and saying do not pay rebills to ABC affiliate anymore on this sub

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 06:38 PM

And whatever I do for example say I modify a payout to an affiliate, the affiliate can see that and that goes to everything.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamis

Hmmm.. I am confused now.

Can the Sponsor do that or not? What is the truth???

Robbie is correct. EscortBiz is wrong. I own a CCBill program. I can go in and change payouts anytime I want to. As Robbie said, that would be very short-sighted. I love it when I see a rebill that's a 6 time rebill. Makes me think that that affiliate is seeing it too and thinking to himself....hmmmm....I should be sending more traffic there. :-)

Before you get too worked up about the program owners on CCBill being able to change payouts or stop them altogether, any program owner can do it. In fact, it's even easier in NATS.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 06:41 PM

You can go into CC Bill and choose how many rebills to pay out to affiliates. That option has always been there. And no, the affiliate can not see that. For instance you can set it to pay 3 months of rebills to the affiliate and that's it. After that you can keep it all.

But again, that has never been a good idea because why would an affiliate continue to send good traffic if they don't see good rebills.

EscortBiz · 01-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

Robbie is correct. EscortBiz is wrong. I own a CCBill program. I can go in and change payouts anytime I want to. As Robbie said, that would be very short-sighted. I love it when I see a rebill that's a 6 time rebill. Makes me think that that affiliate is seeing it too and thinking to himself....hmmmm....I should be sending more traffic there. :-)

Before you get too worked up about the program owners on CCBill being able to change payouts or stop them altogether, any program owner can do it. In fact, it's even easier in NATS.

Read what I wrote and what others wrote you seem to read one line and go off on a rant

After Shock Media · 01-04-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

Robbie is correct. EscortBiz is wrong. I own a CCBill program. I can go in and change payouts anytime I want to. As Robbie said, that would be very short-sighted. I love it when I see a rebill that's a 6 time rebill. Makes me think that that affiliate is seeing it too and thinking to himself....hmmmm....I should be sending more traffic there. :-)

Before you get too worked up about the program owners on CCBill being able to change payouts or stop them altogether, any program owner can do it. In fact, it's even easier in NATS.

Your confused.

Yes you can change an affiliates percentage (change an affiliate and they can see it). You can also set total rebills to bet unlimited or set for a set period (this is publically viewable though).

However there is no way to go in and turn an affiliate sale to no credit for a rebill. Meaning I can not go in and click anything to make a given sale no longer credit that affiliate. I could just adjust that affiliates payout - with them knowing about it.

Also if I cancel a join it cancels it for both the affiliate and the site owner. Again that is where your question to ccbill confused them. Then yes as an affiliate there would be noway of knowing if the member cancelled or the site owner cancelled them.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 06:47 PM

What would you do if an affiliate was breaking all TOS and/or doing spam emails etc. for sales? Would you continue to pay him rebills on those sales? Or would you figure a way to stop them.

After Shock Media · 01-04-2009, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

What would you do if an affiliate was breaking all TOS and/or doing spam emails etc. for sales? Would you continue to pay him rebills on those sales? Or would you figure a way to stop them.

You cancell them and set payout to 0%.

They will be able to see and tell they have been set to 0% though.

SteveHardeman · 01-04-2009, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EscortBiz

Read what I wrote and what others wrote you seem to read one line and go off on a rant

Hey man, I didn't mean to sound like I was going off on a rant. I respect what you're saying now and in all your posts.

Yes, an affiliate can see their reduced payout. And guess what, it turns out EscortBiz was correct and SteveHardeman was wrong. I just went and checked and you cannot stop an affiliate from getting paid on a rebill while continuing to bill the subscriber. I stand corrected.

RevTKS69 · 01-04-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHardeman

And sadly, I just checked with CCBill Client Support and they told me there is no way for an affiliate to find out if the customer cancelled or if the sponsor pulled the rebill.

Steve Hardeman ‎(15:49):
Hi
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:49):
hello
what can i assist you with today?
Steve Hardeman ‎(15:50):
Question, is there a way for me, as an affiliate, to check to see whether a cancelled subscription was cancelled by the subscriber or by the sponsor?
ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:50):
No there is no way you can check that.

You have got to be kidding me? I'm new to the adult website world, but I've been in corporate business environments for quite some time. This is quite simply unacceptable. If there is not 'transparency' in the accounting, then money will wind up in places it shouldn't be.

No wonder you guys are always talking about 'shaving' and dirty dealings by sponsors.

How in the hell can you run a business when the sponsor can just say 'sorry, you didn't make any money this month' and CCBill says 'sorry, you'll just have to take their word for it.'

Please tell me I've interpreted this incorrectly.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 07:56 PM

You're also talking about a business model that pays higher percentages than ANY other.

Iron Fist · 01-04-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You're also talking about a business model that pays higher percentages than ANY other.

Not really when a few button clicks levels the playing field... at least in mainstream you know your getting an honest 10-20%... here it sounds like how cable companies market their internet speeds...

"you could earn UP TO 50% revshare!***"

*** provided all my hookers and blow are paid for, otherwise it's a sliding scale.

EDepth · 01-04-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevTKS69

You have got to be kidding me? I'm new to the adult website world, but I've been in corporate business environments for quite some time. This is quite simply unacceptable. If there is not 'transparency' in the accounting, then money will wind up in places it shouldn't be.

No wonder you guys are always talking about 'shaving' and dirty dealings by sponsors.

How in the hell can you run a business when the sponsor can just say 'sorry, you didn't make any money this month' and CCBill says 'sorry, you'll just have to take their word for it.'

Please tell me I've interpreted this incorrectly.

He asked the CCBill rep if they could tell who canceled a subscription, ie. the webmaster or the subscriber. I'm not sure how that relates to an affiliate payout at all. I think he didn't ask the CCBill Rep. the right question.

Shoplifter · 01-04-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevTKS69

You have got to be kidding me? I'm new to the adult website world, but I've been in corporate business environments for quite some time. This is quite simply unacceptable. If there is not 'transparency' in the accounting, then money will wind up in places it shouldn't be.

You're not going to like working in adult much, as a lot of the backend software is designed to reduce transparency specifically so the money does end up in the wrong place.

As for CCBill these problems are just unintentional design flaws, and I understand they are working on fixing it. Obviously there should be no possible way for a merchant to change the affiliates terms on the fly like this.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharphead

Not really when a few button clicks levels the playing field... at least in mainstream you know your getting an honest 10-20%... here it sounds like how cable companies market their internet speeds...

"you could earn UP TO 50% revshare!***"

*** provided all my hookers and blow are paid for, otherwise it's a sliding scale.

My experience in mainstream internet was not like that at all. I did a mainstream clothing store for a while about 6 years ago. What a waste of time. Most of the payouts were in the 5 to 8 percent range. I've never even personally saw a mainstream affiliate program that paid 20%. And then....once you sold a pair of shoes, or some jeans or whatever...the motherfuckers would start emailing your customers with their spam mails everyday with "specials". So the customer would go back to Fredericks or Brooks Brothers or any of the other dozen or so that I was pushing and buy WITHOUT my code the next time.

So my personal experience was NO it was not "honest" at all (because there was NO return customer because they "stole" them) and the percentages were very low. So you ended up (at least with clothing, shoes, and jewelry) making 5 to 8 percent ONE time and no returning customers. I closed that shit down about 3 years ago. It wasn't even worth my time.

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoplifter

As for CCBill these problems are just unintentional design flaws, and I understand they are working on fixing it. Obviously there should be no possible way for a merchant to change the affiliates terms on the fly like this.

Of course there has to be a way to do that. When I send a lot of traffic and sales I get plenty of sponsors who want to bump up my percentages "on the fly" And others, like AFF as I mentioned before, have their backend set up automatically to raise and lower your percentages according to traffic.

And that includes rebills too. Say you sent 2,000 sales to AFF last month, and you sent them half a million uniques. Well, you're gonna find your percentage set at 55%. Great!

But now next month you only send 100 hits and one sale. Well, guess what? All of those rebills from the previous month are now gonna come in at only 35% And that's worked that way since the beginning.

So yeah, there should and is a way for merchants to do whatever they like with the business that they own. As affiliates, we are just glorified salesmen. Nothing more. Even though I like to think I'm "important" as an affiliate lol

Iron Fist · 01-04-2009, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

My experience in mainstream internet was not like that at all. I did a mainstream clothing store for a while about 6 years ago. What a waste of time. Most of the payouts were in the 5 to 8 percent range.

True... I hear you brother... loud and clear. My mom keeps asking me when i'll stop promoting porn sites, and I keep telling her when there's something better in mainstream. I'm looking... trust me, this is a means to an end, and if there's something better elsewhere, i'll be there. 12,000+ posts or not, i'll be gone like the wind if there's more money to be made elsewhere

Robbie · 01-04-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharphead

True... I hear you brother... loud and clear. My mom keeps asking me when i'll stop promoting porn sites, and I keep telling her when there's something better in mainstream. I'm looking... trust me, this is a means to an end, and if there's something better elsewhere, i'll be there. 12,000+ posts or not, i'll be gone like the wind if there's more money to be made elsewhere

I haven't found anything legal that can make as much money as adult internet. I guess if i were head of a large drug cartel I could make a lot more. But other than being a Donald Trump or Warren Buffet, it's hard to find a way to make this much money for someone who is smart and motivated.

01-04-2009, 05:02 AM	#1
Lamis So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 961	CCBILL Sponsor's Rebills... Is this ULTRA LOW retention NORMAL with CCBILL Sponsors??? I can't believe how low the initial retention is... With any other sponsor is at least 50%.. AT LEAST!! And here from 30 initial signups, only 3 members rebilled??? Paychecks ain't going to grow with so low retention.

01-04-2009, 05:17 AM	#2
MrDeiz SignBucksDaily.com Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 9,802	ccbill became unpredictable nowadays... retention, sign ups, trials - all is totally unpredictable for me there... as far as frequent mistakes in reports.... some sign ups are in transaction section, but aren't in conversions, etc. or there're sign up entries with $0 value, which disappear later... it's still better than most of nats programs for me, but it's very suspicious __________________ Make money with WEBC$MS The only way to still make money in adult Last edited by MrDeiz; 01-04-2009 at 05:21 AM..

01-04-2009, 05:21 AM	#3
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	a) billing companies dont matter when it comes to rebills (it does matter for initial signups) b) tgp traffic and se traffic etc effect the type of joins and rebills etc c) surfer know their shit in these days, you push junk sites they cancel in 2 seconds, you will know how junky it was when in a month you see chargebacks d) 50% rebills is real good, and not common in these days, but if you push good programs with real updates and the traffic is quality on a 29.95 revshare join long term youll see on avg of 80 bucks profit thats as of nov 08 __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

01-04-2009, 05:26 AM	#4
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	What escortbiz said plus - be really picky when pushing sponsors on revshare that have trials. If they do not have much content and do not update enough members quickly learn to buy a trial, cancel and rejoin in a few months to grab updates. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

01-04-2009, 08:29 AM	#8
biskoppen Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Very small penis Posts: 5,809	Not enough sales for a real pattern there... but low, yes __________________ Submit my videos to make bank, tons of 5 minute videos offered right here

01-04-2009, 06:30 AM	#5
clickyclick Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Somewhere on Earth Posts: 159	I notice the same thing with my ccbill acount. Not only do I have low rebill last month but my clicks count is down even when my traffic is way up.

01-04-2009, 10:42 AM	#9
SteveHardeman Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,728	To answer one of your questions, yes, a sponsor can go in and change your payout percentage but you're probably going to want to be send more sales than you've indicated before you contact them about that. Now, onto the 10% retention. That is a huge red flag in my book. Just the normal percentage of guys who forget or are too lazy to cancel a membership should be higher than 10%. In fact, in my opinion, the absolute worst rebilling sponsors should rebill in the 40% range. I think it's in your best interest to do some digging into this. I believe you can go into CCBill stats and look up a particular subscription ID and see when a member cancelled. See if you see a pattern. If they're all cancelling the same day they sign up, then there may be an issue with the content. I'm glad you didn't say the sponsor so this doesn't look like I'm bagging on a competitor but I would look into the possibility that the sponsor is going into the subscription and clicking on a button that stops you from getting paid on renewals. I have absolutely no proof that that is what is happening. Just giving you my input from a ccbill sponsor program owner. Anyway, the bottom line is that 10% retention sends up a HUGE red flag in my book. Were I in your shoes I would do some digging into the reasons. Good luck to you. Steve __________________ BrokeAmateurs And ErosPOV And GirlsGoingSolo And PureAshley Sign Up At AmateursConvert.com Questions? I-C-Q: 3Five1FiveFive3476

01-04-2009, 11:40 AM	#11
cybermike Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ny Posts: 4,117	sorry but you are dreaming for 50% initial rebills.. 20-30% is pretty normal/good these days unless you are pushing something ultraniche __________________ Hey surfers how about some The Best Porn Sites

01-04-2009, 11:41 AM	#12
AZNNC Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 592	MY REBILLS ARE SHIT right now! I lost about 20% of my rebills from November to December. And I am almost getting no rebills this month. Did something change? People's credit cards all expire Dec 31st? wtf?

01-04-2009, 01:12 PM	#17
crockett in a van by the river Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 76,806	You really have to pick the sites you promote with ccbill. The rebills don't have anything to do with if it's ccbill or some other 3rd party. I have some ccbill rebills that have gone 24 months. A lot of ccbill sites suck because pretty much anyone can toss a pay site together with out a lot of investment. The biggest draw back with ccbill is it seems sales have went to shit. I went from doing 30 to 40 sales a month the start of this year with 2 or 3 ccbill sites down to being lucky to hit 10 sales the last few months. Meanwhile some of my other stuff has actually increased with sales on the same traffic. __________________ In November, you can vote for America's next president or its first dictator. Last edited by crockett; 01-04-2009 at 01:13 PM..

01-04-2009, 02:05 PM	#20
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Also don't forget credit card fraud is getting worse every year. If a card is pulled due to the owner calling in and calling it stolen, that card is cancelled, and any rebills from that person is gone. __________________ i like waffles

01-04-2009, 02:10 PM	#21
SteveHardeman Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,728	And sadly, I just checked with CCBill Client Support and they told me there is no way for an affiliate to find out if the customer cancelled or if the sponsor pulled the rebill. I hesitated even posting this cuz I didn't want to give anyone any ideas but it is the truth and the truth is what we're all after. Any sponsor who would pull that bullshit already knows about it anyway, I'm sure. Steve Hardeman ‎(15:49): Hi ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:49): hello what can i assist you with today? Steve Hardeman ‎(15:50): Question, is there a way for me, as an affiliate, to check to see whether a cancelled subscription was cancelled by the subscriber or by the sponsor? ClientSupport CCBILL ‎(15:50): No there is no way you can check that. __________________ BrokeAmateurs And ErosPOV And GirlsGoingSolo And PureAshley Sign Up At AmateursConvert.com Questions? I-C-Q: 3Five1FiveFive3476

01-04-2009, 02:48 PM	#22
Altheon Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	I agree that there are sales patterns that I can not explain. It's a little early to assign blame but in the end the least converting sponsors will lose 100% of my traffic if things don't change regardless of biller.

01-04-2009, 04:02 PM	#23
femdomdestiny Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,177	Void I had two sales today with them and one is already cancelled.What is void? __________________ Femdom Destiny -------------------------------------------- ICQ: 463-630-426 email: webmaster(at)femdomdestiny.com

01-04-2009, 04:06 PM	#24
PixelBucks Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 553	We'll I would say it's 20-30% average... of course we can all make mad claims... yeah yeah my program rebills at 89% the other 11% die ! Let's be honest most sign up and cancell 5 minutes later ! They then download the sites entire content onto their hard drive... stay away for 2-3 months then come back and repeat... The question is what does the sponsor do to keep their members... we are about to add a load of value added stuff for the surfer... also webcam shows are good as you just cant download that... Anyways if anyone wants to give us a spin feel free __________________ Need Content TRASHY CONTENT

01-04-2009, 06:06 PM	#27
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	there is no way for a program owner to login and say this affiliate should no longer get commission from a specific signup no such thing __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

01-04-2009, 06:38 PM	#34
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	And whatever I do for example say I modify a payout to an affiliate, the affiliate can see that and that goes to everything. __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

01-04-2009, 06:41 PM	#36
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	You can go into CC Bill and choose how many rebills to pay out to affiliates. That option has always been there. And no, the affiliate can not see that. For instance you can set it to pay 3 months of rebills to the affiliate and that's it. After that you can keep it all. But again, that has never been a good idea because why would an affiliate continue to send good traffic if they don't see good rebills. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

01-04-2009, 06:47 PM	#39
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	What would you do if an affiliate was breaking all TOS and/or doing spam emails etc. for sales? Would you continue to pay him rebills on those sales? Or would you figure a way to stop them. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

01-04-2009, 07:56 PM	#43
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	You're also talking about a business model that pays higher percentages than ANY other. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com