It's not as simple as that...eye witness testimony is the most unreliable form of testimony there is...there are corrupt police officers and when I say corrupt they are willing to close out a case at all costs and even ignore evidence to the contrary.

Not all "admissions of guilt" are 100% reliable...there is coersion on the part of some police officers etc.

One famous case involves a young black boy in Flordia.

I don't recall the name of the documentary but it was nominated for an academy award for best documentary feature.

Anyway the police had a "confession" the young boy admitted to the crime, however he testified later in court that it was only because the officer took him into the woods and frightened him as well as toyed with his gun in the interrogation room while interviewing him.

The officer of course denied all of this...but guess what?

They found the real criminal later with the real criminals fingerprints on the purse of the lady who was murdered.

This young boy was about to spend the rest of his life in prison or be summarily executed because the police officers had a "confession."

you're right - due the the enormous extra legal checks and balances in most states with the death penality it costs more to kill someone than keeping them in jail for life. Scarry but lawyers arn't cheap and the state usually picks up the tap on both sides in most capital cases

Then show me the facts on how much it costs, I will believe you.

obviously you've a nobody who's never had to hire a lawyer for anything.

Ahem.

Not a criminal lawyer.

I have lawyers in my family Sleazy, no need to compare dicks here.

:winkwink:

When you're on trial for your "LIFE" you should have every "stalling method" at your disposal.

Not everyone is afforded a defense team like OJ...in most cases people are given lawyers who have never defended a capital offense in their lives...they are ill prepared etc.

The state has at it's disposal the necessary funds to prosecute you but give you limited funds to defend yourself.

This means you may not have the scientists needed to disprove or cast doubt on dna evidence against you...or hell to even bring forth dna evidence to prove your innocence.

Some of these "stalling methods" are like a case in Texas where a man convicted of murder was trying to get a new trial because his lawyer slept during some of the proceedings.

If we followed your rules he wouldn't have lived long enough to see a judge finally award him a new trial based on the fact that his lawyer slept.

We are talking about utilizing a punishment method that is irreversible...you can't just say..."whoops we pulled the switch on the wrong guy...sorry....we want a do over."

It is because we expect fallible human beings to investigate these crimes...fallible human beings to prosecute these crimes...fallible human beings to defend those that are accused of these crimes...fallible human beings to sit in judgement during the prosecution of these crimes...and ultimately fallible human beings who sit in judgement (the jury) of the person accused of these crimes that I no longer believe in capital punishment.

People make mistakes and I do not want Billy Bo Jim Bob who couldn't even complete his GED to be the guy deciding my fate.

Another case of a confession. The police convinced a somewhat slow minded 18 year old (through many hours of interrogation) that he must of killed his mother, so he agreed to sign a confession that they had prepared. Keep in mind that he was fully convinced by the police that he in fact had killed his mother. He felt terrible because he dearly loved his mother. He was tried and convicted and was sentenced to life in prison (with him believing that he belonged in prsion). Somewhere along the line the real murdererer was caught and at some point the boy, that was convinced by the police that he had killed his mother, was released from prison.

I often wonder how a lawyer can defend someone like Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy...:helpme

then go ask them about the total costs involed for a capital case and stop asking dumbassed questions on the board. duuuuuu

Come on guys! I obviously opened a can of worms here! Let's just agree to disagree! :)

I asked because you as well as the other guy claimed I am incorrect. If I am, show me, I wont deny it. I just asked for proof.

And you still cant prove me otherwise. So shut the fuck up.

The 5th Amendment of the Constitution specifically *allows* the death penalty and it is quite clear that you can be "deprived of life, liberty, or property" as long as there is due process.

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

why wonder about those lawyers - they lost - wonder about OJs lawyers.

You can do your own research, but this is a known indisputable fact, and has been the case for all of my life. Maybe someone has a link readily available and will provide it for you.

Good point!

Youre the one slinging the Almighty I am Correct hammer.

All I ask is show me your source.

:winkwink:

here's one example:
http://www.dnai.com/~mwood/deathpen.html#Costs

I gots an Idea,
everyone go out buy a gun,
Open all the jails, Letem run free,
see someone breaking in your house,
Give them the justice they deserve...
So basicaly if caught red handed....

No I am not serious about that above,
but, most people against anything
has not had anything happen to them...

hehehe this is how much Idaho criminals cost.


"The average inmate cost per day at the Department's prisons was $55.33 for fiscal year 2002 (which ended June 30, 2002). The average inmate cost per day at the community work centers is $43.64. The average offender cost per day for someone on probation or parole is $3.80."

Thats 20 grand a year per criminal and over 1 million for 50 years.

Funny.

some things are soo obvious they don't need proof, but I guess for someone with as little insite as you must be taken by the hand and walked across the street.

Thank you. There are many more soucres of info. I have seen this very subject debated on TV hundreds of times since I was old enough to watch TV and understand what was being said. It makes one wonder how anyone could be ignorant about this subject but many people continue to espouse that it costs more to house than to have capital punishment.

You go from one extreme to the other...can't there be a middle ground?

Found a Los Angeles page.

http://www.worldpolicy.org/americas/dp/dp-cost.html

So it fluctuates with every state, but yes it does cost mroe to house them.

I was wrong.

See, all I wanted was the numbers.

"In Los Angeles County, the total cost of capital punishment is $2,087,926.
In Los Angeles County, the total cost of life imprisonment without possibility of parole is $1,448,935."

" The incarceration of an inmate sentenced to life imprisonment generally costs about $821,613. "

hummm

http://www.dnai.com/~mwood/deathpen.html#Costs


am I allowed to speak now???? I majored in criminology on my B.A. - I havn't looked at the stuff in 10 years since I graduated but I can assure you that if you were worth 5 mins I could dig up a ton of data like the link above to suppot what I've been saying. it's costs a LOT more to kill someone than to keep them in jail for life.


dumb redneck

You're wrong on that one! My best friend was savagely raped by 3 men last year...I was there at the hospital EVERYDAY during her recovery...She can never have children because of this incident. And I still feel the same way about the death penalty.

Well in my opinion I think everyone who serves time should have to pay for it in someway or another...they should have to work...the streets of your community and/or state should never be dirty...there is something we can do other than just killing them.

You live in Canadas Alabama dude, I live in Hollywood.

Whos the frucking redneck?

hahah

what I said above was a joke,
But for going to one extreme to another, isn't true..
I am for the death penalty,
and with that joke above, I am saying I believe Most criminals
will go a crime again, and get shot, so thus inacting the death penalty...

If you don't understand, sorry, my thoughts are out there sometimes..

in retrospect

We have to remember that there is NOTHING common about commen sense. It hurts dealing with idiots sometimes but an idiot doesn't know that he's an idiot and usually gets mad when he finds out the truth.

$20,000 per year is about the average national cost to house an inmate, although some high securtiy housing units can cost as much as $50,000 per year. The cost to charge, try, convict, and ultimately execute is higher than housing.

WOAH! I happen to be in Canada too! :winkwink:

physical location doesn't change the tanline on your neck.

I would like to know if added in that cost is
all the medical, dental, stupid lawsuits, education, so on...

Okay fine, so you are against the death penalty. That's cool... I defend your right to your opinion. However, I'd like to know what the alternatives are.

You say, "Lock 'em up, don't rehab them, don't let them get an eduction." Fine. But why should I, and other taxpayers like me, have to support them? They aren't members of my family, I have no obligation to them, and frankly I resent the fact that they live better than most of the people I know... and all they had to do was break the law to get there!

My feeling on the matter is that ANYONE who is put in jail for anything, no matter how "minor" an offense, should damned well have to earn their keep. Bring back the chain gangs, the farms, the quarry workers. Or would you consider THAT "cruel and unusual punishment" also? The whole idea behind jails and prisons is to make people PAY for their crimes! To my way of thinking, that means that making them a "little uncomfortable" is NOT a bad thing.

Why should these people, who have broken the law and, in some cases, infringed upon the rights, life, and safety of others, be allowed to sit in a cell with cable TV, Nautlius equipment, a better law library than Harvard (something they are "entitled to" by law, mind you), and three squares a day while people like you and I bust our asses and pay taxes at a hideous rate to support them? That's not punishment (unless you happen to be a taxpayer, of course... we get to literally pay for crimes we didn't commit!)! For most of these guys, that's like a vacation at the Ritz!

Not killing them isn't the answer. Revamping our system and making them PAY for their crimes, even if it means losing their own lives or have to work their asses off every day, IS the answer, IMO.

And to address your initial topic, I do believe the death penalty is appropriate in certain cases, but I don't really see it as a "deterent" anymore. Hell, when a CONFESSED serial killer like Ted Bundy can drag shit out in the courts for 12 years, I fail to see how that is going to deter anyone from doing anything. Yes, I believe in "an eye for an eye"... but I also believe that we need to make DAMNED sure we've got the right guy before we stick the needle in.

gotgauge... rent paradise lost

it's about these guys.
http://www.wm3.org/

You'll see all the hysteria that surrounds murder sometimes.

The need to just find anyone to exact punishment/revenge.

No physical evidence tying them to these crimes.

No weapon found.

Hell no blood was even found where the bodies were discovered.

The prosecution used scare tactics to get these guys convicted...Damien Echols practiced wiccan at some point...wore all black so they became "devil worshippers" who preyed upon little children.

But yet one of the boys stepdad gave the camera crew his knife that they turned over to authorities and lo and behold blood that matched both the stepson and the stepdad were on that knife...and then when you watch the follow up to the documentary the little boys mother just happens to die unexpectedly while laying in bed with the guy and they discover teeth marks on the boys body but can't get a bite impression from the step dad because he at first claims his teeth were knocked out...but come to find out he had them all pulled.

The stepdad eventually ends up in prison on some drug charge.

But yet these guys are still in prison and one is on death row and will more than likely be executed.

Entertainment lawyers are the worst lawyers on the planet.

:smokin

Being an idiot and being ignorant about a subject are two different things, but speaking out about a subject when you are ignorant of the facts does tend to make one appear to be an idiot. When the facts are presented and one does not accept the facts then one does become an idiot.

Well, you pay taxes right? See it as a way to keep the streets clean. I strongly feel that if the jails were less lenient the cost would go down! personally I have no problem paying for people to be in jail! I have bigger issues paying for people that sit on their asses all day and refuse to work!!! (but that's another topic....)

i never said they was anything wrong with being ignorant - but our favorite redneck did speak on something he knew nothing about with authority - thus an idiot.

Someone screaming about their degree who cannot spell looks way more than an idiot.

hahahah

Learn to spell then lie about your degree.

Liar.