Need HIGH END hosting - GoFuckYourself.com

Due · 09-13-2008, 12:14 PM

As my last post didn't get any responce here we go again

I'm searching a hosting company experienced with VOIP services.
I need a fully managed VOIP IVR server, eventually it will be used as gateway server as well, 24/7 monitoring and techs available is a must. We are probably aiming for using Asterisk but open for suggestions if you know better solutions.
Spam me your offers here or by mail [email protected] (look for spamarrest reply)

Obviously I'm not searching for a 10 mbit $300 /month server as this is not standard webhosting hosting

james_clickmemedia · 09-13-2008, 12:17 PM

We have been using National Net for years.. Contact them, i'm sure they can meet your needs..

GT-Omar · 09-13-2008, 12:20 PM

By far hands down Nat net!

Iron Fist · 09-13-2008, 12:23 PM

http://www.colo-cation.com

Look no ref code... located in the NAP of the Americas... you can't find connectivity any better than that.

Due · 09-13-2008, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_clickmemedia

We have been using National Net for years.. Contact them, i'm sure they can meet your needs..

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT-Omar

By far hands down Nat net!

Thanks to both of you, asked them for a quote :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharphead

http://www.colo-cation.com

Look no ref code... located in the NAP of the Americas... you can't find connectivity any better than that.

I checked their site and could see only information about P4's and no details about their support levels etc, not what I'm looking for but thanks

Phil21 · 09-13-2008, 12:37 PM

Instead of just blindly spamming crap...

What you want, I know of no "hosting company" that can truly provide in the full sense of what you want. Having techs trained on Asterisk is not something that would be profitable for anyone, unless it is their sole niche play. I do know of a few "VOIP" companies that would do something similar to what you want, but would be rather expensive.

The best advice I can give you is find a solid provider who has a great track record for network and facility uptime (no company-wide network outages recently, no history of recurring power outages, etc.). There are definitely a nice selection in the industry, but you may want to do some actual homework on them.

Additionally, voice stuff gives some other unique challenges in provider selection. Will you ever want to get your own PRI lines connected directly to your systems? If you are not having lines connected directly, and your phone service is via VOIP figure out where your provider is located and try to plan your hosting accordingly.

If I was looking for a provider for a full-blown VoIP solution I would probably look for the following:

1) Quality, redundant network. Strong track record of network availability.
2) Quality facilities - tour them. Ensure things are n+1, proper facility access control, good cabling standards, etc.
3) Carrier neutral facility with many voice carriers on-net for cross-connect ability. This generally narrows my choices down to providers located in facilities like Equinix, NOTA, 25 broad, the Westin building, Infomart, etc.
4) On-staff tech's who can execute instructions quickly and accurately - not simply read off of a script (this rules out the remote-hands techs for ALL of the above facilities - so a reseller is needed)

After this, I would contract with one of many VoIP consultancy companies to set things up properly. You can do lots of fun things with failover and the like. These guys you would have design and run your Asterisk (or whatever) setup, and they would be who you call if it breaks - unless there is a full-blown power or network outage.

This is coming from someone who does manage a few Asterisk servers for company use. They have been very solid, but they do pose very unique requirements most hosting companies could not in good faith say they could "fully manage" for you - myself included.

Good luck!

Brad Mitchell · 09-13-2008, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharphead

http://www.colo-cation.com

Look no ref code... located in the NAP of the Americas... you can't find connectivity any better than that.

Yes, they are located in the NAP of the Americas (just as we are) but whether or not they connect to the best networks and how they manage their routing is completely up to them. If I'm not mistaken, they are mostly Cogent on the outbound.

Brad

Brad Mitchell · 09-13-2008, 12:45 PM

My best friend uses http://www.aretta.com for his pbx which he says great things about all the time... but I just went to their site and apparently they're having some kind of outage. LOL So much for that, good luck on the VOIP search.

Iron Fist · 09-13-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Due

Thanks to both of you, asked them for a quote :-)

I checked their site and could see only information about P4's and no details about their support levels etc, not what I'm looking for but thanks

Call them directly.... I know of a few adult networks who use them as well as myself, and my sites are very seldomly offline.

Ask for Chris +1 561 333 6946 tell him Sharphead sent ya.

Iron Fist · 09-13-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Yes, they are located in the NAP of the Americas (just as we are) but whether or not they connect to the best networks and how they manage their routing is completely up to them. If I'm not mistaken, they are mostly Cogent on the outbound.

Brad

Nope... but that's okay... Chris at colo-cation doesn't post on GFY because he doesn't need to spam for more clients .. i'm a very happy customer which is why I chime in every once in awhile.

BT · 09-13-2008, 01:01 PM

www.isprime.com "the host with the most from coast to coast"

BSleazy · 09-13-2008, 01:01 PM

Liquid Web has there own datacenters and are top notch.

Iron Fist · 09-13-2008, 01:05 PM

Hmm, you got me thinking Brad... i'll have Chris confirm what routing and connectivity arrangements he has in place, so i'm more informed next time

Thanks for the heads up!

Due · 09-13-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Instead of just blindly spamming crap...

What you want, I know of no "hosting company" that can truly provide in the full sense of what you want. Having techs trained on Asterisk is not something that would be profitable for anyone, unless it is their sole niche play. I do know of a few "VOIP" companies that would do something similar to what you want, but would be rather expensive.

The best advice I can give you is find a solid provider who has a great track record for network and facility uptime (no company-wide network outages recently, no history of recurring power outages, etc.). There are definitely a nice selection in the industry, but you may want to do some actual homework on them.

Additionally, voice stuff gives some other unique challenges in provider selection. Will you ever want to get your own PRI lines connected directly to your systems? If you are not having lines connected directly, and your phone service is via VOIP figure out where your provider is located and try to plan your hosting accordingly.

If I was looking for a provider for a full-blown VoIP solution I would probably look for the following:

1) Quality, redundant network. Strong track record of network availability.
2) Quality facilities - tour them. Ensure things are n+1, proper facility access control, good cabling standards, etc.
3) Carrier neutral facility with many voice carriers on-net for cross-connect ability. This generally narrows my choices down to providers located in facilities like Equinix, NOTA, 25 broad, the Westin building, Infomart, etc.
4) On-staff tech's who can execute instructions quickly and accurately - not simply read off of a script (this rules out the remote-hands techs for ALL of the above facilities - so a reseller is needed)

After this, I would contract with one of many VoIP consultancy companies to set things up properly. You can do lots of fun things with failover and the like. These guys you would have design and run your Asterisk (or whatever) setup, and they would be who you call if it breaks - unless there is a full-blown power or network outage.

This is coming from someone who does manage a few Asterisk servers for company use. They have been very solid, but they do pose very unique requirements most hosting companies could not in good faith say they could "fully manage" for you - myself included.

Good luck!

Thanks for taking the time for writing such a detailed reply

Currently we already have a couple online and I'm fully aware it is not cheap compared to standard hosting

I would prefer putting it with a hosting company that either have the staff to maintain this or have contracts with consultancy companies already to handle this, I would like to avoid hearing "your host need to" or "your tech need to"
We won't need PRI lines as we have that already through our other providers so everything is IP based.
We do not need a full blown Asterisk config, currently we are in need of only the IVR part and configuration/maintnance of it.
If you are able to manage it please shoot me a mail with your offer

Iron Fist · 09-13-2008, 01:12 PM

"The reason Cogent has a bad name in the hosting industry is because lots of two-bit hosting shops sprang up on Cogent bandwidth, and the hosting shops oversold their bandwidth. This is not Cogent's fault."

Hmmm.... sounds like GFY is good for spreading FUD

Doesn't matter if your provider uses Level 3 or Cogent, if they oversell their offerings, they will be slow - period. Why colo-cation is top notch is they don't oversell their bandwidth.

Burridge · 09-13-2008, 01:13 PM

isprime ...

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-13-2008, 01:27 PM

NakedHost

Excellent service to!

Due · 09-13-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

My best friend uses http://www.aretta.com for his pbx which he says great things about all the time... but I just went to their site and apparently they're having some kind of outage. LOL So much for that, good luck on the VOIP search.

Thanks for the heads up, this might be usefull for other things we got in the pipe

Due · 09-13-2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burridge

isprime ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BT

www.isprime.com "the host with the most from coast to coast"

The isprime network is top notch, their support primary support standard web applications so not exactly what we are searching for

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-13-2008, 01:51 PM

At least contact Naked Hosting in your search I am not an expert in Hosting I think everyone knows that around here. But what I do know is NakedHost has alot solid clients that depend on them in the biz.

at least check them out and contact them while you run down the list

Due · 09-13-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienQ

At least contact Naked Hosting in your search I am not an expert in Hosting I think everyone knows that around here. But what I do know is NakedHost has alot solid clients that depend on them in the biz.

at least check them out and contact them while you run down the list

I sent them a mail

To anyone else, this does not need to be adult based hosting, mainstream will work as well

Brad Mitchell · 09-13-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Instead of just blindly spamming crap...

What you want, I know of no "hosting company" that can truly provide in the full sense of what you want. Having techs trained on Asterisk is not something that would be profitable for anyone, unless it is their sole niche play. I do know of a few "VOIP" companies that would do something similar to what you want, but would be rather expensive.

The best advice I can give you is find a solid provider who has a great track record for network and facility uptime (no company-wide network outages recently, no history of recurring power outages, etc.). There are definitely a nice selection in the industry, but you may want to do some actual homework on them.

Additionally, voice stuff gives some other unique challenges in provider selection. Will you ever want to get your own PRI lines connected directly to your systems? If you are not having lines connected directly, and your phone service is via VOIP figure out where your provider is located and try to plan your hosting accordingly.

If I was looking for a provider for a full-blown VoIP solution I would probably look for the following:

1) Quality, redundant network. Strong track record of network availability.
2) Quality facilities - tour them. Ensure things are n+1, proper facility access control, good cabling standards, etc.
3) Carrier neutral facility with many voice carriers on-net for cross-connect ability. This generally narrows my choices down to providers located in facilities like Equinix, NOTA, 25 broad, the Westin building, Infomart, etc.
4) On-staff tech's who can execute instructions quickly and accurately - not simply read off of a script (this rules out the remote-hands techs for ALL of the above facilities - so a reseller is needed)

After this, I would contract with one of many VoIP consultancy companies to set things up properly. You can do lots of fun things with failover and the like. These guys you would have design and run your Asterisk (or whatever) setup, and they would be who you call if it breaks - unless there is a full-blown power or network outage.

This is coming from someone who does manage a few Asterisk servers for company use. They have been very solid, but they do pose very unique requirements most hosting companies could not in good faith say they could "fully manage" for you - myself included.

Good luck!

Great post Phil

Brad

Pornopat · 09-13-2008, 08:07 PM

I can fully recommend Nat Net

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-13-2008, 08:20 PM

Hit up Jim at Techie Media . com, tell him I sent you too him... And I said too hook you up!

spooky181 · 09-13-2008, 08:26 PM

Go with www.suavemente.net they have been great for us....

Brad Mitchell · 09-13-2008, 08:38 PM

Jesus christ are you all fucking stupid, he's looking for fully managed Asterisk support.

Brad

davidd · 09-13-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil21

Instead of just blindly spamming crap...

What you want, I know of no "hosting company" that can truly provide in the full sense of what you want. Having techs trained on Asterisk is not something that would be profitable for anyone, unless it is their sole niche play. I do know of a few "VOIP" companies that would do something similar to what you want, but would be rather expensive.

The best advice I can give you is find a solid provider who has a great track record for network and facility uptime (no company-wide network outages recently, no history of recurring power outages, etc.). There are definitely a nice selection in the industry, but you may want to do some actual homework on them.

Additionally, voice stuff gives some other unique challenges in provider selection. Will you ever want to get your own PRI lines connected directly to your systems? If you are not having lines connected directly, and your phone service is via VOIP figure out where your provider is located and try to plan your hosting accordingly.

If I was looking for a provider for a full-blown VoIP solution I would probably look for the following:

1) Quality, redundant network. Strong track record of network availability.
2) Quality facilities - tour them. Ensure things are n+1, proper facility access control, good cabling standards, etc.
3) Carrier neutral facility with many voice carriers on-net for cross-connect ability. This generally narrows my choices down to providers located in facilities like Equinix, NOTA, 25 broad, the Westin building, Infomart, etc.
4) On-staff tech's who can execute instructions quickly and accurately - not simply read off of a script (this rules out the remote-hands techs for ALL of the above facilities - so a reseller is needed)

After this, I would contract with one of many VoIP consultancy companies to set things up properly. You can do lots of fun things with failover and the like. These guys you would have design and run your Asterisk (or whatever) setup, and they would be who you call if it breaks - unless there is a full-blown power or network outage.

This is coming from someone who does manage a few Asterisk servers for company use. They have been very solid, but they do pose very unique requirements most hosting companies could not in good faith say they could "fully manage" for you - myself included.

Good luck!

Your knowledge of hosting is clearly very narrow.

His request is a legitimate request that any hosting company should be able to do. Note I said "real hosting company"... not the resellers of hosting that 98% of the companies on GFY are.

I used to do similar requests frequently... Channelized T1's/PRI, VOIP connections/servers, etc etc.

Just because you can not do it does not mean it is an out of the ordinary request that needs to be handled by a consultancy.

-dd

Phil21 · 09-13-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidd

Your knowledge of hosting is clearly very narrow.

His request is a legitimate request that any hosting company should be able to do. Note I said "real hosting company"... not the resellers of hosting that 98% of the companies on GFY are.

I used to do similar requests frequently... Channelized T1's/PRI, VOIP connections/servers, etc etc.

Just because you can not do it does not mean it is an out of the ordinary request that needs to be handled by a consultancy.

-dd

Okay...

Which company listed can do fully managed Asterisk support. I don't mean "some guy knows his shit" - every company probably has one or two folks that know Asterisk. I mean, every single tech is trained on the platform they use for this given product and can handle everything but the most difficult troubleshooting issues.

We do voice for some select customers, in very significant volume. I'm sure other providers here do as well. This does not mean they have built an actual product around it.

Unless you actually have built a product around it, any one of your techs can instantly jump in and diagnose/fix an issue, and you have processes/procedures on how to set things up, monitor it properly, do updates, etc. I do not call it managed. Others may, however and they will generally get away with it. That fact does not make it right.

Due · 09-14-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidd

Your knowledge of hosting is clearly very narrow.

His request is a legitimate request that any hosting company should be able to do. Note I said "real hosting company"... not the resellers of hosting that 98% of the companies on GFY are.

I used to do similar requests frequently... Channelized T1's/PRI, VOIP connections/servers, etc etc.

Just because you can not do it does not mean it is an out of the ordinary request that needs to be handled by a consultancy.

-dd

I received some good feedback after this thread and going through the various replies.
In general it is not easy though as most companies deal only with standard applications to keep the costs low as their techstaff will be cheaper. Even the more expensive companies such as rackspace said they could not handle it, we simply don't have the time ourself as we wish to keep focus on growing and development rather than maintaining

Resellers can actually be a very good choice from my experience as long as it is not a 1 man operation or ref code referrals as they can keep their focus strictly on sales and technical staff without needing to maintain the infrastructure themself.

Klen · 09-14-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

Jesus christ are you all fucking stupid, he's looking for fully managed Asterisk support.

Brad

Not everyvone actualy read fully first post.In most cases people read only title and make a reply based on that.

cotsios · 09-14-2008, 08:25 AM

www.addora.com

icq: 149389211

u-Bob · 09-14-2008, 09:14 AM

http://www.securax.org

xxweekxx · 09-14-2008, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

http://www.securax.org

LOL.. nice site

09-13-2008, 12:14 PM	#1
Due Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 3,620	Need HIGH END hosting As my last post didn't get any responce here we go again I'm searching a hosting company experienced with VOIP services. I need a fully managed VOIP IVR server, eventually it will be used as gateway server as well, 24/7 monitoring and techs available is a must. We are probably aiming for using Asterisk but open for suggestions if you know better solutions. Spam me your offers here or by mail [email protected] (look for spamarrest reply) Obviously I'm not searching for a 10 mbit $300 /month server as this is not standard webhosting hosting __________________ I buy plugs Skype: Due_Global /Due

09-13-2008, 12:17 PM	#2
james_clickmemedia Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Texas / London Posts: 2,204	We have been using National Net for years.. Contact them, i'm sure they can meet your needs.. __________________ $ CLICKMEMEDIA.COM $ CONVERTING ETHNIC TRAFFIC SINCE 1998 ~ $30+PPS BLACK-X.COM - NEW BLACK EX-GF SITE CLICKMEMEDIA.COM ~ ICQ - 8788771

09-13-2008, 12:20 PM	#3
GT-Omar DM at Performive.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Atlanta, G.A. Posts: 2,968	By far hands down Nat net! __________________ Email me Skype me

09-13-2008, 12:23 PM	#4
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	http://www.colo-cation.com Look no ref code... located in the NAP of the Americas... you can't find connectivity any better than that. __________________ i like waffles

09-13-2008, 12:37 PM	#6
Phil21 Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: ICQ: 25285313 Posts: 993	Instead of just blindly spamming crap... What you want, I know of no "hosting company" that can truly provide in the full sense of what you want. Having techs trained on Asterisk is not something that would be profitable for anyone, unless it is their sole niche play. I do know of a few "VOIP" companies that would do something similar to what you want, but would be rather expensive. The best advice I can give you is find a solid provider who has a great track record for network and facility uptime (no company-wide network outages recently, no history of recurring power outages, etc.). There are definitely a nice selection in the industry, but you may want to do some actual homework on them. Additionally, voice stuff gives some other unique challenges in provider selection. Will you ever want to get your own PRI lines connected directly to your systems? If you are not having lines connected directly, and your phone service is via VOIP figure out where your provider is located and try to plan your hosting accordingly. If I was looking for a provider for a full-blown VoIP solution I would probably look for the following: 1) Quality, redundant network. Strong track record of network availability. 2) Quality facilities - tour them. Ensure things are n+1, proper facility access control, good cabling standards, etc. 3) Carrier neutral facility with many voice carriers on-net for cross-connect ability. This generally narrows my choices down to providers located in facilities like Equinix, NOTA, 25 broad, the Westin building, Infomart, etc. 4) On-staff tech's who can execute instructions quickly and accurately - not simply read off of a script (this rules out the remote-hands techs for ALL of the above facilities - so a reseller is needed) After this, I would contract with one of many VoIP consultancy companies to set things up properly. You can do lots of fun things with failover and the like. These guys you would have design and run your Asterisk (or whatever) setup, and they would be who you call if it breaks - unless there is a full-blown power or network outage. This is coming from someone who does manage a few Asterisk servers for company use. They have been very solid, but they do pose very unique requirements most hosting companies could not in good faith say they could "fully manage" for you - myself included. Good luck! __________________ Quality affordable hosting.

09-13-2008, 12:45 PM	#8
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	My best friend uses http://www.aretta.com for his pbx which he says great things about all the time... but I just went to their site and apparently they're having some kind of outage. LOL So much for that, good luck on the VOIP search. __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

09-13-2008, 01:01 PM	#11
BT Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft liquordale FL Posts: 6,481	www.isprime.com "the host with the most from coast to coast" __________________ IS Prime Hosting Bald Head Shine "BT" The American Dream, baby! " THE HOST WITH THE MOST!" My ICQ 122994792

09-13-2008, 01:01 PM	#12
BSleazy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: USA Posts: 6,721	Liquid Web has there own datacenters and are top notch. __________________ icq 156131086

09-13-2008, 01:05 PM	#13
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	Hmm, you got me thinking Brad... i'll have Chris confirm what routing and connectivity arrangements he has in place, so i'm more informed next time Thanks for the heads up! __________________ i like waffles

09-13-2008, 01:12 PM	#15
Iron Fist Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 23,400	"The reason Cogent has a bad name in the hosting industry is because lots of two-bit hosting shops sprang up on Cogent bandwidth, and the hosting shops oversold their bandwidth. This is not Cogent's fault." Hmmm.... sounds like GFY is good for spreading FUD Doesn't matter if your provider uses Level 3 or Cogent, if they oversell their offerings, they will be slow - period. Why colo-cation is top notch is they don't oversell their bandwidth. __________________ i like waffles

09-13-2008, 01:13 PM	#16
Burridge Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York City Posts: 1,186	isprime ... __________________ NYC

09-13-2008, 01:27 PM	#17
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	NakedHost Excellent service to! __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

09-13-2008, 01:51 PM	#20
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE best designer on GFY Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IALIEN.COM - High Definition Video and Photographic Productions -ICQ 78943384 Posts: 30,307	At least contact Naked Hosting in your search I am not an expert in Hosting I think everyone knows that around here. But what I do know is NakedHost has alot solid clients that depend on them in the biz. at least check them out and contact them while you run down the list __________________ NAKED HOSTING FTW!11 I'm On The INSANE PLAN $9.95/mo! \| The Alien Blog Adult News Worth Reading Updated Daily \| Content For Sale! 641 PICS 216 MINUTES OF VIDEO $350.00 \|ICQ: 78943384 \|

09-13-2008, 08:07 PM	#23
Pornopat AdultTubeSubmits.com Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 10,598	I can fully recommend Nat Net __________________ https://stripcash.com/sign-up/?userI...fff832eb95ab6a

09-13-2008, 08:20 PM	#24
Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE North Coast Pimp Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 304-534-757 Posts: 9,395	Hit up Jim at Techie Media . com, tell him I sent you too him... And I said too hook you up!

09-13-2008, 08:26 PM	#25
spooky181 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: back of beyond Posts: 2,951	Go with www.suavemente.net they have been great for us....

09-13-2008, 08:38 PM	#26
Brad Mitchell Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Southfield, MI Posts: 9,812	Jesus christ are you all fucking stupid, he's looking for fully managed Asterisk support. Brad __________________ President at MojoHost \| brad at mojohost dot com \| Skype MojoHostBrad 71 industry awards for hosting and professional excellence since 1999

09-14-2008, 08:25 AM	#31
cotsios Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,371	www.addora.com icq: 149389211 __________________ SIGNATURE FOR SALE - SEND Icq 149389211

09-14-2008, 09:14 AM	#32
u-Bob there's no $$$ in porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq: 195./568.-230 (btw: not getting offline msgs) Posts: 33,063	http://www.securax.org