Damn whatif_3 I can see where you got your nickname bro! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh "Whatif" you blew up a city and then you would say that's not as bad as blowing up a whole country! :1orglaugh

Come on back to the subject at hand. You're comparing apples and oranges. This is business. If you don't want to make money with someone because you are morally outraged then just don't promote them. If enough people stop promoting them, then maybe they will change. Maybe not. It's none of our business what someone else does with their business. We can't force anybody to do anything. We can only make our own choices.

Very nice!

Off topic: PPjohn, I'm one of your affiliates and your shit kicks ass! I'm liking the new big tit stuff too. Very hot. :pimp

Alright, I didn't read the last two pages, but I just gotta be clear here. You can't just "not promote" cross sale sponsors.

People submit galleries

It is damn near impossible to know everything about what sponsor they are using, and whether or not there are cross-sales even there, because maybe there are only cross sales for brazillians, whatever.

People already know about brooke skye. If people like her, they are going to that fucking site, period, and when they search freeones or pichunter, and she's not there. They are going to type in the domain, or search it on google, and WHAM still cross sale'd...

So, if you at least have a warning, or a link that's designated clean there's a possibility they can join brooke skye without the hassle.

PH and FreeOnes are more like Search engines, we don't "promote" as much as we "aggregate all porn"

BTW, TheDoc, what the hell are you doing to help anything other than flaming progress threads?

Yeah Tarpy you have a problem there with still taking submits. We stopped all that back in 2003, but I remember the headaches you are going through. BUT, we used to do our submissions by hand. And we did have specific rules just as you do. I think you could choose not to promote them...which is what you said you were going to do in your thread about the subject. You said you were going to start weeding them out. And that is definitely your decision to make.

I know you have to have a spider that checks those for changes in the galleries. We all had systems like that going back to 1998. I don't envy you still taking submissions. But you can definitely control it. We did back then and I'm sure you still keep a tight reign on it now.

So you are going to "not promote" them correct? Which is exactly the right thing to do if you think it's a bad deal. I'm gonna promote the revshare sponsors that make me the most money over the years. Just like I always have.

Tarpy. I just saw the cliphunter thread. Went over there and found this

http://www.cliphunter.com/w/143849/C...and_Sexy_Karen

What the fuck? Take that shit off there. Goddamn it

Looks like removeyourcontent already took it off of the original tube site that you embedded from. But goddamn it! That is still making use of my content with no link at all back to me. That is stealing. Fucking dating site ads on the page.

You don't work for the company that invented the xsell and not know it or how it works inside and out.

The data tells you everthing you need to know. We could debate all night long about the ethics. There is absolutely nothing unethical about a clearly visible precheck or unchecked xsell above the submit button IMHO. The people who are joining these sites are adults with brains. Some people think it's unethical for someone to have to uncheck a check box, but ethics is a sliding scale.

Also, everyone talks as if the primary and/or xsell product somehow don't offer value. Members' areas get better and better every month and the consumer gets more and more and more and more for their money. Let's get real people, even if someone had 2 concurrent memberships billing at $40 a month - that's $80 per month - the equivalent of maybe 4 adult DVDs bought on sale at a video store. Those monthly memberships probably offer access to hundreds, maybe thousands of DVDs, feeds, live sex products, etc, etc.

I'll reiterate again, we have to be the only industry in the world that apologizes when we charge money for something. We give more and more value, charge less and less per month... less revenue only makes it more difficult for EVERYONE to make money, programs and webmasters alike.

No business should ever apologize for making money. The sole reason a business exists is to make money. If you provide value to a consumer you deserve to make money, it's how capitalism works - you take risk and get rewarded.

godaddy

They advertise 8.95 domains yet have crazy aggressive trans path, easily trying to ring you up for 5 times that.

"Cross sale" is of course an industry term. Something like "extra charges" would be better.

Firstly i will recognise that x-sales are a legal way of upselling customers in a range of industries, not just adult, and if you make the decision to use 'legitimate' unchecked x-sales ABOVE the submit button then that is of course your choice.

What I cant understand is any program that uses pre-checked, half hidden and/or unrelated xsells as it really will hurt your bottom line in the long run. For alot of programs it is the number of surfers who re-bill that determines profitability (especially when the PPS>monthly access) and when a surfer signs up expecting to be billed just the $1 for his porn trial at site x but finds charges from sites y and z as well they surely wont be happy about hanging around for 3 lots of rebills.

The programs engaging in this dodgy practice must know that when a surfer has a bad experience on one site he is alot less likely to sign up to any site in the future, 'once bitten twice shy' anyone. So not only are they screwing themselves in the long run they screw everyone else over in the meantime.

If only programs in the adult industry could learn to treat surfers with a bit of respect instead of the usual 'surfers are retarded, can barely spell their name' crap, who knows, maybe they would feel a bit better about paying for your porn then going to redtube or pornbb.

I think this move by Freeones to at least point out the varying degrees of dodginess on these sites is a step in the right direction but their certainly needs to be some kind of recognition for sites who are totally legit and wont hurt your creditability with your surfers.

For the record JuicyBucks does not offer x-sales in any form on our join pages as we don't see any benefit from being underhanded with our sales techniques and we also offer console free links for our webmasters with no payout penalty.

GoDaddy for the most part is B2B. An extremely high percentage of their customer base knows exactly what those unchecked upsells are.

What's going on at a lot of porn sites is pure trickery aimed specifically at people who do not understand the adult internet. This is unfortunate because these people are probably not very knowledgeable in the area of tubes, boards and torrents either. In other words, super prime targets to sell to that should be treated very well.

When you earn the surfers confidence, they buy from you. Don't some of you idiots know this?

Once again we see progressive thinking and action from Roald and FreeOnes.
It is good that an industry leader like FreeOnes has enough business savvy and common sense to step up and attempt to address the current self destructive trend of hidden xsells the industry has taken.
That takes balls.
Instead of pissing and moaning, maybe some constructive criticism can take place to come up with some helpful ideas to help Roald refine the FreeOnes proposed changes to their business model that is being put in place to further the trust factor with the clients (surfers), resulting in continued membership sales. The current prevalent practice of hidden xsells is sure to impact the surfers willingness to signup for a membership.
Longevity is better for our industry, not short term gains. :2 cents:

yea man

i agreed with your first statement. i would never fault a man for doing what he has to to put food on his familys table, and this is a tough world.

but dont pull this shit that its not deceptive. call it what it is. your doing what you have to do to make $$$. its ok. *some* other people would love to be in your spot

it is pretty common knowledge that vanderpool/python/you guys invented the prechecked crossell. wasnt sure if everyone was aware.

the reality here is that guys that make their $$ off of crossells really dont have a lot of content to offer that isnt saturated on a few tube sites. and consumer loyalty is a concept foreign to them.

not that i think that investing a lot into content at this point would get a lot more consumers rebilling.

i think that there were people that came to that fork in the road, decided to go the evil risk-management way rather than the good biz provide value way, and that road eventually leads to slaughter

I disagree, and have my data that supports this but i cannot prove that to you so will end this with one last thing since i feel you went on a different road then what i intended to say. It's not that relevant anyway since you were talking about pre-checks above submit. Just wanted to add i the remark that surfers are not smart and can't read well.


The "selective retardation" as you have nicelly put it is not there. The surfer is able to do what he knows and is familiar with. Credit card number, cvv, name, surname, address, etc. Those are all things he is familiar with. Putting chick name in google, or visiting freeones (or anything else) because someone in his office/company told him to visit that and look there, he also knows. He knows how to click around. Knowing that when he reads "free" and it's not free actually, is something he does not know. Expecting checkboxes bellow the submit button he also doesn't know. Signing up to free site where he has to input CC number for validation, and then on the fine print it says he has to cancle in 30 minutes or else it will rebill, is something he does not know. Anyway, you have enough members to make your own estimate on this. I believe the numbers would match if you did.
No offense, but you never really processed enough members to have a real statistical case on this, however, the captcha reference is to an issue that is supposed to be something well known to the surfer, yet a relativelly high percentage (for something regarded as commonly known) has issues with it still.

A guy with a hard cock in his hand will buy anyway. The primal need to ejaculate trumps good and fair business or even common sense sometimes. :2 cents:

You can not pay us to advertise on our site since we don't sell (yet?). Ofcourse if we would we would have some sort of check before we put anything up.

Hey guys,

This is a great step forwards, and I really hope this will inspire more people to take action against these hidden cross sales. I am pretty sure that every customer who has ever been fucked up by these kind of cross sales, never will join a porn site anymore. I hope that your system is really going to make a difference!

Wow - the insider guy really knows! You may want to dump who is ever feeding you the bullshit.

Like your xsale info, straight up bullshit and wrong. Of course you are to stupid to admit that, but I can look past that. Then someone that could "build and test captcha", it really sounds like you have the captcha data to backup your cock holster. So really...


Could you please just turn your bullshit spew spout off, it's just stupid at this point.

Sorry i offended you, but your 300 to 800 members doesn't make you have enough statistical data for me to consider valid.

I'm turning it off now.

UPDATE

http://www.hostones.com/temp/board/warninglevel4.gif

We added a green/check icon for sponsors we think are clean ones.

Sample: http://www.freeones.com/html/e_links/Eva_Angelina/

NOTE: We are in the process of adding everything in our backend.

Maybe my settings are different for them, but nothing I see is prechecked with GoDaddy. There are a lot of things they try and upsell you on, but they are blatantly in front of your face and not prechecked.

Roald, so will the green checkmarks be extended to submitted galleries too? Or will they be limited to your own sponsor FHG's?

Not sure about this yet, we need to think this over.

Ok, I can't even imagine the amount of work involved in re-reviewing all galleries listed on your pages :)

As I recall you are defaulted into a 2 year registration, but before you even get to that part there's 2 or 3 upsells, then they "precheck" you into "customize my order" which has 6 upsells. Personally I believe the godaddy process is way more deceptive and aggressive, and the products they are selling are garbage.

I'm not sure. I've used them for awhile so I think my settings are saved in their system. I always pick the quick checkout option.

Offended me? About the members statement? Hahaha, come on - I have several sites with 300-800 members - what is to be pissed about?

It's just funny because clearly you have no idea what I do, what I own, or anything at all, you really aren't an insider of anything. So I just simply call it how it is, you are an idiot.


Anyway, again, the point of the post was to prove that you are an idiot, acting like you know a subjects you have clearly never dealt in, proving I'm probably the real idiot for arguing with a board whore.

TheDoc are you going to be in Atlanta?

I wouldn't piss in a cup and send it to that coked up show.



Anyway, no sir - I quit doing shows a bit back. I will fly in for a dinner now and then, otherwise I don't hang around the shows anymore.

OK, just wondering. :)

This was about evilgeniuscash you just sold since i saw on boards you were the owner. Other then that i have no intention to look up more of your data and waste my time since it serves no purpose. Feel free to say you delt with more numbers on that program.

Since your inside knowledge is so limited, I will assist you.

EGC was program #4, it's a 6 year old program, I have ran paysites for about 10 years of the last 11, I still own several sites and have stakes in several programs.

EGC was a small program - I have posted this and so has Kristin. We hid nothing. I have shared my stats on GFY and Webmasters have shared stats. So you aren't exposing anything that I just didn't tell people in the open. However - it's odd how it could support a staff of 5, trade shows, booths, parties, make the top earning lists for rabbit, gg&j, and others.. it's pure amazing I even made it out alive!

Now you can say you have some real insider knowledge, it came straight from me - so nobody is going to give you the wrong story.



So this was all about Captcha anyway, and I said strongbox. So back to that, so you don't think EGC had enough members, what about DukeDollars or MayorsMoney? Oh, prob going to say I didn't do support, you are correct - but I did and do monitor the support emails. Both run my custom changes to strongbox, along with ... oh just a couple of others.

So again, your idea on captcha is just wrong. Members know what it is. From free online email accounts, member forums, social sites, and even basic contact forums - captcha is a major thing on the Internet now and as long as the image isn't hard to read - it causes less issues than any other single support complaint.

You did not follow correctly.

Captcha was added in relation to cross-sales as something that is in the business for years, and still gives people problems. All in relation that surfers are not that smart and can't read that well as was initially put.

Other things you rambled is your broken ego (which shouldn't be as you have said here you are successfull enough), which does now warrant a reply.

You can keep bringing my program up into this if you like. I ignored your first statement when you brought it up, I just slammed you for being an idiot for posting bullshit xsale information. I then confronted you the second time you posted your insider info. I'm also not really sure why my ego would be broken. Is this your method of attacking me when you have no other leg to stand on? It's kinda lame.



Anyway, it's fun to see an idiot try to twist what they said into fact. Like you stated "My estimates are that 30%" - Difference between me, steve and you - we didn't give an estimate, we gave factual numbers that can be backed up and proven.

Then you said "If you disagree, i can't give you my real numbers/evidence on this, but you can easilly verify this by putting a captcha on the login page for test,"

Of course you can't give real numbers or evidence, and I did disagree, see I have years of experience, knowledge, and testing to back it up, posted several times - even from other programs with permission. You, have being a gfy insider with the wrong info, you should try being a Webmaster - you might actually learn something.

Now if you actually made an analogy on xsales vs captcha, the wow... Do I need to say what I already think again? Naaa...

When you buy a domain at godaddy they show their upsells clearly in every page. Not 5 paragraphs below the "Buy Now" button. Big difference

Lol, you turned into a troll. If you think you slammed anyone other then yourself, ok. Keep slamming.