tubesites = death of tgps

[brand0n]

pull the alexa of any big tgp.. pick one off the top of your head, bet you money its on the downfall. we couldnt find 1 that wasent

then pull the alexa of any big tube site.


now think from a surfers view.. what would u reather have?

at best a few 1 min vids, and a join link

or a 45 min vid with no links anywhere really.


sad state of affairs really.

[The Duck]

Tragic...

[Barefootsies]

Where is hun's tube site again?

[VicD]

Old news but i agree, i was a surfer myself once, you probably too...

[Barefootsies]

[sortie]

It was predicted a long time ago and all the predictors were called idiots and fools.

[TheDoc]

While traffic volume will always produce sales... Quality of the traffic vs sales, is a huge difference between Tubes and all other normal Adult Sites.

Just because a group/base of traffic appears to have moved doesn't mean the quality based moved with them, even though the volume base did.

TheHun Referring Countries:
1. Finland
2. New Zealand
3. Germany
4. United Kingdom
5. Australia
6. Austria
7. Canada
8. Netherlands
9. Belgium
10. Turkey

YouPorn referring Countries:
1. Italy
2. Turkey
3. Greece
4. Belgium
5. France
6. Austria
7. Portugal
8. Switzerland
9. Mexico
10. Spain

And now from PK, which is a different type of site, with even more of the top quality traffic sources near the top.
1. South Korea
2. Finland
3. Canada
4. United States
5. Italy
6. Australia
7. Austria
8. Germany
9. Switzerland
10. Sweden

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by sortie

It was predicted a long time ago and all the predictors were called idiots and fools.

Now they are called Patriots.

[tony286]

got funny got listed on the hun yesterday and had a banner day.

[hjnet]

Well, I'd say not only TGPs or MGPs are affected, if tubes continue to give fullsize Movies, or even 10 Minute "Samples" away just for free then it would be the death for content based Adult Business anyway. Someone must be really retarded to buy a membership for a site just to view content, when he can watch the same content and much more by just going to one of the bigger tubes.

As our situation is right now it's exactly as retarded as trying to sell crushed ice to the Inuit

[brassmonkey]

yeah tubes are good

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Well, I'd say not only TGPs or MGPs are affected, if tubes continue to give fullsize Movies, or even 10 Minute "Samples" away just for free then it would be the death for content based Adult Business anyway. Someone must be really retarded to buy a membership for a site just to view content, when he can watch the same content and much more by just going to one of the bigger tubes.

As our situation is right now it's exactly as retarded as trying to sell crushed ice to the Inuit

I, for one, welcome things like this to stir the pot once in a while. You know what it means? Shit sites like yours won't be around for much longer, and this helps weed out competition that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Sounds like either your content completely sucks, and you just don't care about it being stolen - OR your content isn't exclusive, in which case you can't do shit about it being stolen.

My content doesn't appear on tube sites because I don't put it there. And any tube site I find with my content is going to have their ass sued, and I will win. Why? Because I shoot it, and I copyright it. And we have this thing called DMCA which protects us globally.

Like any new medium, there are ways to use this situation to your advantage. But few of you have the ability to think outside your little box.

Back in 2000 it was the same story, but instead of "Tube sites are killing the biz" it was "TGP sites are killing the biz". There's always a reason why people think the business is going to hell. The moral of the story is just to focus on your own business and producing good shit, instead of lamenting the fact that your business has gone to hell.

If your site was anything worth joining to begin with, you wouldn't be having this problem.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by xenigo

My content doesn't appear on tube sites because I don't put it there. And any tube site I find with my content is going to have their ass sued, and I will win. Why? Because I shoot it, and I copyright it. And we have this thing called DMCA which protects us globally.

I agree with what you said, but one small issue. DMCA protects piracy sites not the producers and it's far from global.

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by xenigo

I, for one, welcome things like this to stir the pot once in a while. You know what it means? Shit sites like yours won't be around for much longer, and this helps weed out competition that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Sounds like either your content completely sucks, and you just don't care about it being stolen - OR your content isn't exclusive, in which case you can't do shit about it being stolen.

My content doesn't appear on tube sites because I don't put it there. And any tube site I find with my content is going to have their ass sued, and I will win. Why? Because I shoot it, and I copyright it. And we have this thing called DMCA which protects us globally.

Like any new medium, there are ways to use this situation to your advantage. But few of you have the ability to think outside your little box.

Back in 2000 it was the same story, but instead of "Tube sites are killing the biz" it was "TGP sites are killing the biz". There's always a reason why people think the business is going to hell. The moral of the story is just to focus on your own business and producing good shit, instead of lamenting the fact that your business has gone to hell.

If your site was anything worth joining to begin with, you wouldn't be having this problem.

No offence, but I don't own any paysites, and I don't produce content

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by tony404

got funny got listed on the hun yesterday and had a banner day.

As did I. I can almost always tell when I get listed there as the sales REALLY are popping all day.

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I agree with what you said, but one small issue. DMCA protects piracy sites not the producers and it's far from global.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia.org Query: DMCA

The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law which implements two 1996 treaties of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). It criminalizes production and dissemination of technology, devices, or services intended to circumvent measures (commonly known as Digital Rights Management or DRM) that control access to copyrighted works and it also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself. In addition, the DMCA heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on October 12, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the U.S. Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended Title 17 of the United States Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of the providers of on-line services for copyright infringement by their users.

On May 22, 2001, the European Union passed the EU Copyright Directive or EUCD, which addresses some of the same issues as the DMCA. But the DMCA's principal innovation in the field of copyright, the exemption from direct and indirect liability of internet service providers and other intermediaries (Title II of the DMCA), was separately addressed, and largely followed, in Europe by means of the separate Electronic Commerce Directive.

That's a quote from Wikipedia on DMCA. It protects people who own copyrights, from the unauthorized use of said content.

It's purpose is to thwart the use of copyrighted content on piracy sites - not to protect piracy sites.

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by hjnet

No offence, but I don't own any paysites, and I don't produce content

Fantastic. What I said still applies to everyone else though.

[biskoppen]

Tubes are not killing sales, pre-checked cross sales below submit buttons are..

[gornyhuy]

Technology evolves. The internet keeps changing. Its not sad, its just a fact. Adapt.

[klaze]

I talk to everyone I meet about their porn habits.

Fact is some people prefer pictures over movies and some people prefer tgps over tubesites.

Nothing is the death of anything some pople will always prefer one way while another group prefers the other way..

[Klen]

Well maybe old tgp losing traffic a lot,but i think they losing it simply beacuse they didnt changed since time they started.I dont say they need to change it to tube site like xnxx or keezemovies did,they simply to make something new yet again not so bad as ilegal tube sites.

[Robbie]

Reality for me is this...3 years ago I had 1.2 million uniques a day. Today I'm lucky to have 50,000 uniques a day. Yet my sales are still about 1/2 of what they were from my tgps. So I have 1/24th the traffic and 1/2 the sales.

That tells me that at one time we tgps' ruled when it came to teenage boys looking for porn. The tubesites stole all my useless teenage traffic. I kept the majority of my productive traffic.

And since I never based my business model off of selling ad spots or blindlinkng traffic etc. but rather on selling paysite memberships...I'm doing great.

So no, they aren't gonna be the death of real TGP/MGP's And when the dust finally settles on the legalities of what they are doing, the real TGP's will still be here

[sortie]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Well maybe old tgp losing traffic a lot,but i think they losing it simply beacuse they didnt changed since time they started.I dont say they need to change it to tube site like xnxx or keezemovies did,they simply to make something new yet again not so bad as ilegal tube sites.

"Death of TGP" is a metaphor. He means "The decline in TGP".

The fact that xnxx switched to a tube site is very significant because why risk
swithing? It could turn out good or bad.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by xenigo

That's a quote from Wikipedia on DMCA. It protects people who own copyrights, from the unauthorized use of said content.

It's purpose is to thwart the use of copyrighted content on piracy sites - not to protect piracy sites.

I really wish that was true, if that was true, I think most of us would have sued long ago.

See, the quick of it is this. When a person submits content to a tube (if it's real or faked but looks real), and as long as the tube site follows DMCA notices, appears to and attempt to filter content out, ect. They are pretty much untouchable.

Then, mix that with hosts that you can't sue, that will host piracy, you can easily fake whois info and you can easily host in a piracy safe country. Several of the worst are untouchable. At this point copyright and dmca notices mean nothing or you can sue until you turn blue, with no results.

Now, what I have found odd is nobody has sued other companies profiting from the Tubes that do not respond to DMCA notices. Several of those Companies can be touched.

Now, to twist this. If you DRM protect your content, it is CRIME in many countries to crack DRM protected movies, copy them or upload them. This, gives you power to take on Tubes and the people giving your content out since it can be tracked with DRM. The problem it's almost impossible to find DRM protected content on tubes. And the little you do see is from direct recordings, which makes the upload, hosting, or anything related to the content a Crime.

If someone is just straight stealing from and profiting from it, like someone rips your members content and opens a paysite. You don't need to send a notice, just sue.

DMCA protects a new way to steal movies. DRM protects the owner, it gives them more to attack with in more countries. My opinion of the situation at least.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That tells me that at one time we tgps' ruled when it came to teenage boys looking for porn. The tubesites stole all my useless teenage traffic. I kept the majority of my productive traffic.

It might also tell you that you dropped all your shitty traffic trades and now only have
good ones. Or that sponsors have worked harder to convert better.
Or you stilll have nothing but those same teenage boys but they've now turned 18
and are now signing up.

Many times I deleted my top traffic trades which cut my traffic in half but sign ups
actually increased because then I sent more traffic to the smaller sites and they sent
more higher quality traffic back.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by sortie

It might also tell you that you dropped all your shitty traffic trades and now only have
good ones. Or that sponsors have worked harder to convert better.
Or you stilll have nothing but those same teenage boys but they've now turned 18
and are now signing up.

Many times I deleted my top traffic trades which cut my traffic in half but sign ups
actually increased because then I sent more traffic to the smaller sites and they sent
more higher quality traffic back.

Never did shitty traffic trades. We have always been known as a clean site. AL4A, Ampland, Grampland, and ShavedGoat was what we did. AL4A was sold to Pierre back in 02. Ampland is now with my former partner Al. So no, we are real tgp's that didn't ever need to do shitty traffic trades. We were the originators.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Never did shitty traffic trades. We have always been known as a clean site. AL4A, Ampland, Grampland, and ShavedGoat was what we did. AL4A was sold to Pierre back in 02. Ampland is now with my former partner Al. So no, we are real tgp's that didn't ever need to do shitty traffic trades.

Name dropping I see, hehe..

[Robbie]

Yeah, I have to do a little name dropping ever once in a while.

[the Shemp]

i hope i don't have to sell the house, its almost paid for

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Never did shitty traffic trades

Maybe you never did any shitty trades you knew about.

I would catch a bot hitting my site and block it and then see that bot site
listed in the top 10 spots on some "good TGPs" for fucking months.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by the Shemp

i hope i don't have to sell the house, its almost paid for

Rob, that's my place to the right. If you ever need some more juice for your internet connection just come on over. I have a 56k modem that is twice as fast as your 28k

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by sortie

Maybe you never did any shitty trades you knew about.

I would catch a bot hitting my site and block it and then see that bot site
listed in the top 10 spots on some "good TGPs" for fucking months.

Kinda hard for that to happen since I did our trade lists by hand and updated them only when I personally spoke to a person face to face and knew them. We tried to keep a good handle on that back in the day because we didn't need them. Nowadays...I'll take any old hit I can get. LOL.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by the Shemp

i hope i don't have to sell the house, its almost paid for

Just kidding Shemp.

[the Shemp]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Rob, that's my place to the right. If you ever need some more juice for your internet connection just come on over. I have a 56k modem that is twice as fast as your 28k

....

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I really wish that was true, if that was true, I think most of us would have sued long ago.

See, the quick of it is this. When a person submits content to a tube (if it's real or faked but looks real), and as long as the tube site follows DMCA notices, appears to and attempt to filter content out, ect. They are pretty much untouchable.

Then, mix that with hosts that you can't sue, that will host piracy, you can easily fake whois info and you can easily host in a piracy safe country. Several of the worst are untouchable. At this point copyright and dmca notices mean nothing or you can sue until you turn blue, with no results.

Now, what I have found odd is nobody has sued other companies profiting from the Tubes that do not respond to DMCA notices. Several of those Companies can be touched.

Now, to twist this. If you DRM protect your content, it is CRIME in many countries to crack DRM protected movies, copy them or upload them. This, gives you power to take on Tubes and the people giving your content out since it can be tracked with DRM. The problem it's almost impossible to find DRM protected content on tubes. And the little you do see is from direct recordings, which makes the upload, hosting, or anything related to the content a Crime.

If someone is just straight stealing from and profiting from it, like someone rips your members content and opens a paysite. You don't need to send a notice, just sue.

DMCA protects a new way to steal movies. DRM protects the owner, it gives them more to attack with in more countries. My opinion of the situation at least.

I understand that there are obstacles in place designed to delay and deter legal proceedings, but even with a private WHOIS, they can't hide their provider, and if the provider refuses to act on the violator, there's always upstream providers.

And I'm sure there's ways to embed a signature in a video that can't be edited out - which can be used to identify, and prosecute, a unique user.

[the Shemp]

Originally Posted by sortie

Just kidding Shemp.

it could be worse.... i still get the free Canadian Medicare system...

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by klaze

I talk to everyone I meet about their porn habits.

Fact is some people prefer pictures over movies and some people prefer tgps over tubesites.

Nothing is the death of anything some pople will always prefer one way while another group prefers the other way..

I prefer pics as my favorite niches don't translate well into videos.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by xenigo

I understand that there are obstacles in place designed to delay and deter legal proceedings, but even with a private WHOIS, they can't hide their provider, and if the provider refuses to act on the violator, there's always upstream providers.

And I'm sure there's ways to embed a signature in a video that can't be edited out - which can be used to identify, and prosecute, a unique user.

Taking down upstream providers or putting pressure on them does work in some situations. However like Spam, it is not going to be a solution that even half way works.

The Whois information isn't only private, it's wrong/fake but pulls up a working phone number to a call center that answers under your business name.

DRM Protecting your videos is a solution to several of our Industry problems.

The people that are being taken down and beat are the people that don't respond to the DMCA notices and/or are straight stealing and reselling your content. Those are the cases that have been won.

I think we are going to have to first fight to have the laws changed so we can fight piracy at a equal playing level. And that does not include supporting net neutrality.

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That tells me that at one time we tgps' ruled when it came to teenage boys looking for porn. The tubesites stole all my useless teenage traffic. I kept the majority of my productive traffic.

Or your sites grew older and get more SE traffic these days than a few years ago.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by hjnet

Or your sites grew older and get more SE traffic these days than a few years ago.

They are definitely older now. But we always had great SE traffic. AL4A and Ampland were started in 1996 for instance. SE traffic was never much of a concern. We always had a lot percentage-wise. It was always a big sales day when a search engine crawled our links back in the day.

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Robbie

They are definitely older now. But we always had great SE traffic. AL4A and Ampland were started in 1996 for instance. SE traffic was never much of a concern. We always had a lot percentage-wise. It was always a big sales day when a search engine crawled our links back in the day.

Damn, even Googlebot payed for Porn back in the 90's? I really started too late! jk

But to be serious, you run text sites, so bandwidth should only be a a small issue for you, and you still have lost 50% of your earnings during the last 3 years, so that's a serious sign that something goes wrong.

I know that things are changing all the time, but that doesn't mean that we all should just sit there and watch it happen. 10 years ago the conversion rates have been at least 10 times better as they are now, and I'm sure that 99% of GFY doesn't have deep enough pockets to survive another 10 years if thinks go on like that, my

[Robbie]

Whoa whoa whoa! I NEVER said I lost 50% of my revenue! I said NEW SALES are down for me by 50% with 1/24 the traffic. Which means that percentage-wise my sales ratios are much better.

And my revenue grows every month. I have been doing revshare since day one bro. I'm making more money now than I ever have. Now, if I had been a "quick money" PPS kind of guy...I would be in a world of shit.

[xenigo]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Whoa whoa whoa! I NEVER said I lost 50% of my revenue! I said NEW SALES are down for me by 50% with 1/24 the traffic. Which means that percentage-wise my sales ratios are much better.

And my revenue grows every month. I have been doing revshare since day one bro. I'm making more money now than I ever have. Now, if I had been a "quick money" PPS kind of guy...I would be in a world of shit.

Hmm... but one could quantify that a 50% reduction in new sales will lead to a reduction in rebills... leading to a reduction in revenue.

Rebills or not... it's all related.

[Robbie]

One COULD Say that. But you're discounting what my sales were. My revenue is constantly rising and I'm making enough sales still to offset cancellations etc. So it keeps going up. Not at the rate I'd like it to. But it is going up nontheless. Last year I put $511,440.11 in my pocket. This year I'm on course to increase that slightly to $554,638.21 Not a significant increase at all. Just a tiny one. But enough to show me that I'm making enough sales to offset cancels on my rebills and add a little to it.

Once the dust settles on tubes...I'll still be here offering a clean site with a few interesting things to do, and of course porn. So I don't think that tubesites=death of tgps at all. Just the death of the ones that were blindlinking, circle jerking, and popping up.

[Fabien]

Of course !
Remember Toplists ? When tgps came out, toplists died.

Remembers Xpics ? One of the biggest pay/per/click sponsor in the 90's. The hell with this kind of program now ! Someone offering pay/per/click is crazy or shaving madly and/or you won't get paid !


My point is, the net it's changing but not for the better !
The more and more free shit we give away, the less they pay. Why pay when you can get it for free ?

One of my friend had a site online in 95 and he was charging 100$ for 30 months ! Guess what ! HE WAS SELLING MEMBERSHIPS LIKE HOT BREAD (no it ain't Cp assholes) but very very neat targeted niche with hot and rare content. Now it's priced at 39.95$ and ratios are getting worst and worst.

FUCK TUBE SITES FUCK THEM FUCK THEM AND RE RE RE FUCK THEM

[hjnet]

Originally Posted by Robbie

One COULD Say that. But you're discounting what my sales were. My revenue is constantly rising and I'm making enough sales still to offset cancellations etc. So it keeps going up. Not at the rate I'd like it to. But it is going up nontheless. Last year I put $511,440.11 in my pocket. This year I'm on course to increase that slightly to $554,638.21 Not a significant increase at all. Just a tiny one. But enough to show me that I'm making enough sales to offset cancels on my rebills and add a little to it.

Once the dust settles on tubes...I'll still be here offering a clean site with a few interesting things to do, and of course porn. So I don't think that tubesites=death of tgps at all. Just the death of the ones that were blindlinking, circle jerking, and popping up.

Well, sounds like you're making enough, but it really doesn't concern you that your new sales have dropped by 50% during the last 3 years, what if that trend continues for the next 3 years? I'm not sure if the dust will ever settle on tubes. I'm not as long in this industry as you are, but I've never seen that conversion ratios have gone UP again once they came down due to some shakers, might it be Free Porn, Visa Regulations, 2257, Tubes, whatever.
My sales haven't dropped as much as yours, but I'm concerned already that things are going in the wrong direction

[Fabien]

Oh yeah, cool to find a biz thread at GFY !

[undersoul]

don't think tgps are dead just yet. obviously you have the hun but overall some niches work better on tgp related sites. Legal tubes are another avenue for us to get traffic. not everything new has equate to the death of something else. i for one rather use as many quality resources as possible.

[Fabien]

You know what i think ?
Every pay sites should have DRM !

Everybody was laughing there asses off DRM. That was before the Tube area !
I'm saying DRM but it could be anything that could prevent copying content, tho i ain't fool, there will always be a way to copy stuff but it would be far less.

Of course some surfers would be pissed off but they would get used to it.

Anyways, just an idea...

[klaze]

Originally Posted by Robbie

One COULD Say that. But you're discounting what my sales were. My revenue is constantly rising and I'm making enough sales still to offset cancellations etc. So it keeps going up. Not at the rate I'd like it to. But it is going up nontheless. Last year I put $511,440.11 in my pocket. This year I'm on course to increase that slightly to $554,638.21 Not a significant increase at all. Just a tiny one. But enough to show me that I'm making enough sales to offset cancels on my rebills and add a little to it.

Once the dust settles on tubes...I'll still be here offering a clean site with a few interesting things to do, and of course porn. So I don't think that tubesites=death of tgps at all. Just the death of the ones that were blindlinking, circle jerking, and popping up.

Half a million in your pocket after everything is said and done?

That's pretty impressive.