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I predicted it.
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But even the 95% care little about how we are perceived. We spam them with porn, we run sites that are totally hardcore and open. We do nothing to control what we show the world. In fact we do the opposite. We take every opportunity to throw porn in their faces. All in the name of profit. I speak as someone who knows what it's like to produce porn that was illegal, though never obscene. I know what it's like to worry every time the door bell rings and to have policemen standing in my home clutching a sledge hammer in one hand and a search warrant in the other. |
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what exactly is considered "obscene" anyways? i bet the religious right would consider it obscene. IMO, if its not illegal to engage in the act, it shouldnt' be illegal to film and distribute. |
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So what if they draw a line and say "If you go over this you get slapped." It means us who stay the right side get to make money and no dangers of getting the police knocking on the door. Step over it, like Max did, and you will get slapped. Just please don't cry about it as if you never knew what you were doing. |
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Like the people who pirate porn say!! Think about it beyond the small box. :winkwink: |
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And it's easy to say "set a line in the sand", but how do you do that? Who determines what is acceptable and what is not? Would there be a time limit for how long someone can gag for, or is it strictly based on particular sex acts? Would there be a written list to work off of? I just don't see how you could draw a consensus from this in the adult community. Even if that line can be drawn, it will just be fought to be pushed back. Do you seriously believe that conservatives will stop battling pornography simply because the adult industry decided that scat was a bad thing? To them this isn't about just Max Hardcore, it's about all porn. Look at the gun industry. If the NRA came out tomorrow and decided they would stand against machine guns, would anti-gun advocates call it a day and move on to something else? The only thing setting a line in the sand does is admit that something between consenting adults should be illegal. It in fact makes their argument stronger. And from a strictly business perspective, I agree with a lot of your points. I think this stuff does hurt the industry. But from a human perspective, I'm just tired of people telling others what is right or wrong. I'm tired of people telling me what is obscene. The definition of obscene is different for every one of us. When this industry (or any other in the entertainment world) admits that something should be considered obscene by all, it simply gives their argument credibility. The argument should simply be, if you don't like it, don't watch it. |
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For about 40 minutes Wednesday and for more than an hour this morning, the entire DVD "Max Extreme 20" was shown to jurors. As the DVD began, the jurors sat mostly stone faced. Two women blushed and smiled slightly. One woman sat wide-eyed. The DVD progressed, and the smiles vanished. Hands often covered mouths. Men and women fidgeted in their seats. Expressions turned to concern as women onscreen screamed in pain during some scenes. In one scene, Little slaps a woman repeatedly, curses at her and urinates on her. She vomits. "That's OK," Little says in the film. "You look better with puke on your face." As the rough sex continues, they discuss her fictional 12-year-old daughter. Little, playing the role of Max Hardcore, tells the woman he had sex with the "preteen." In another scene, a younger woman says she is a virgin. The Hardcore character gives her a modeling job. He grabs her neck and the back of her hair, and forces her into a sex act. The girl vomits. Several of the jurors wince. One man rubs his closed eyes for several seconds. During a sex act, the young woman begins to scream. "I've got to move," she says. "Ow, ow, ow." Hardcore slaps away her hands. "Stop, stop, stop," she says. "Can we stop for a minute? Can we have a break?" The scene ends abruptly but begins again and lasts for several more minutes. While I don't agree he should have been in court to begin with, This needs a judge not a jury. No jury in this country is going to NOT consider this obscene. right or wrong, it doesn't matter. |
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Most of those telling us it's the end of porn are scared little whimps or trying to scare people out of the industry. The sky is falling. Again!! :1orglaugh pocketkangaroo the Government does not decide, a jury does. And yes it's the job of the Government to decide on many things. The line in the sand is moving all the time. Max got slapped for totally ignoring the line. He was not pushing it. Mack you are 100% wrong. This should never be decided by a judge, it's the job of the people to decide whether it should be allowed. And the rest of you, would you want your sister to be in a scene like this or would you be going after Paul for abusing her like this? By what is described it seems what he did was illegal. So he was filming an illegal act unless you can prove it was acting and the girl was acting/faking the crying and displeasure. Good luck proving it was acting. Keep protecting shits like this and the Government will keep going after you. |
this sucks
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Also captain dip shit there was no need to prove she was acting in an obscenity case or was there some hidden rape charge tossed in we all missed as well? Yet by your logic every film inside and outside of porn would have to prove that any scene of violence or displeasure was indeed acting only. I do not agree with the shit he produced and yes it is shit. I personally never want to watch another minute of it again myself ever and I can make that choice. Though to go to the other extreme why is it not obscene for that one church group to be protesting soldiers burials and other functions with their own form of fucked up christian hate that is forced on others? Even taken as a whole, their beliefs, teachings, brainwashing and forced participation of minors, and public displays all come across as obscene. Now if you were not so single tracked in the head which if you would bother to ask anyone who will not lie to you, you would find out. You would also see that the very same Government is taking on other cases of much more mild material. In one case in particular they are skipping right past obscenity laws and just saying it is and the jury gets no choice in that matter, where it is purely about distribution and access. You may also want to take a peak at some of the blogs and message boards of our adversaries who are not only highly organized but major political funders and lobbyist. Go see what they have to say about your repetitive ass porn where your degrading women. Honestly if I did not believe in no forced censorship of ones thoughts, opinions, and such I would actually wish that you could just be banned from the industry as a whole until you could prove that your mind is capable of more than one train of thought and that you way and thoughts are not the be all end all in arguments. |
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The verdict was as expected. Anyone who thought it was a sure thing that he would be found not guilty was living in their own dream world. Not many people win obscenity cases that go to trial. GFY is acting as if this case is something new. THEY HAPPEN ALL THE TIME ACROSS THE COUNTRY. You just don't read about them on GFY or the industry news sites.
They even go after foreign webmasters for sending obscenity into the US through the internet. The infamous Two Girls One Cup video out of Brazil was involved in such a case a couple years ago (he took a plea bargain). There used to be a page online that had a running total of all the obscenity cases for each year and then a win, loss, settle column. Anyone know the site? If I recall, most took the settlement. Those who didn't, lost the vast majority of the time. |
pretty much what I expected to happen
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that movie has nearly everything you describe (no vomit/urination). obscene? |
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I hate the fact that 12 people can "decide" what is and what is not obscene when you can't even get those same 12 people to agree on what the best movie ever made was - or the best topping on a pizza for that matter. I hate that our industry is always under the gun but this is a prime example of why!
I don't give a fuck about Max. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on. His shit is obscene and I damned sure don't want him to blazing a path and anyone who is hollering about what he does should be protected under freedom of speech - pony up to your convictions and toss on a white hood and walk around Harlem on a Friday night cause that's protected under freedom of speech as well. How many of you will do it? Not 1 damned person and not because of any racial prejudices but simply because you can do something doesn't make it a good fucking idea. You know you'll soon be getting a cap busted in your ass. When Flint pushed back, about the worst a person would see was a hot chick with goo on her face and the chances are good that even if none of the 12 actually ever had the chance to give the wife "a different kind of facial than she goes to the spa to get", you'd have at least 1 on the jury that wanted to! Max was all but raping that girl - simulated or not and finding 12 folks who didn't think that was obscene is a much harder task to accomplish. We're between the religious right and the moral majority. Max was a mosquito taking bites whenever he could and he finally got bitched slapped for it. Every great once in awhile the big white horse needs to feast on someone. It's not like it's overly difficult not to make yourself look appetizing.... sheesh! |
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As for getting 12 people to agree on it let alone discuss it in the open among a group of strangers and then also have to go back into society that knows they were on that jury to admit it. Good fucking luck. I was never thinking he would come out innocent at this level of the trial. I just also seem to notice that his titles seem to move a whole fucking lot of units and that must say something about the people and the communities. |
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Now, if you also take into account that you also have a good chance of having a Christian on the jury then their beliefs can't be set aside to make a decision and no Christian would ever do that in open court I don't think. Bible says not to covet thy neighbors wife - doesn't say shit about spraying spunk on your own wife's face tho! |
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yeah as a business person in this industry I want to have sympathy for Max, but man oh man the stories I have heard - direct from talent - about that guy. Emergency room visits and what not, bad stuff. but all that extreme porn should have made him extreme profits, so hope his lawyers work hard. |
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I've seen extreme porn and still won't watch that movie. :1orglaugh |
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One of the most perplexing of all speech-related problems has been the issue of obscenity and what to do about it. A wide variety of tests have been employed by individual justices to determine what is constitutionally proscribable obscenity, and for long periods of time, no single approach commanded the support of a majority of the Court. The difficulty of defining obscenity was memorably summarized by Justice Stewart in a concurring opinion when he said: "I know it when I see it." |
The one thing that really scares me about how this case went down is the obvious manipulation of the jury in many ways. Obscenity is established by viewing the ENTIRE BODY OF WORK, not just portions, it must be taken in it's entirety. The jury in this case were ONLY SHOWN TRAILERS, and when it was requested that they view the FULL body of work, they were DENIED. THAT scares the shit out of me, because now all of a sudden even "obscenity under community standards" isn't fair this way.
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good, that video of that girl and him that got posted here made me sick.
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I rarely post or even read GFY anymore after retiring from porn a couple years back. I retired from porn for a couple reasons, a major one being what happened to Max. My own site was a little over the edge so I felt exposed.
Like a lot of people I am sure here I met Max, chatted with him for a while at a porn convention, nice and pleasant guy but his stuff grossed me out. I am absolutely amazed anyone would want to buy it or make it. But I am more amazed they could find 12 people who would convict him for it, sad commentary. One thing I shared with Max, DVDs were a huge part of my site, bigger than membership some months. Early on I took the warnings of porn first amendment attorneys seriously and NEVER shipped mail domestically. Its idiotic to save a buck when thats historically been a big part of porn persecutions. Sure he could have still been charged with the other stuff but why make it easy for the government? Not sure if it was smart or not but I did ship postal mail overseas. There wasn't any reasonable alternative and I think it would be vastly harder (if even possible) to prosecute. But that was just my opinion. I do hope you guys are voting republican will take note. An Obama dominated supreme court could save Max a few years hence. |
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I don't know about the "slam dunk" on appeal, but if he ever had a chance of one, yes, his chances of getting one are definitely higher on appeal. In fact I like his chances now that this lower juristictional court has given his side several grounds for appeal. I can already spot several instances where the jury pool was tainted or allowed to be tainted. Makes me wonder what else the judge said or did or allowed that was prejudicial. |
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As a business person I welcome more restrictions. Dip shits who need to abuse women to sell porn will hate it. People who can produce porn without turning women into objects of abuse will fear it. This industry wants freedom to do as it pleases and that's it's biggest enemy. |
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Maybe if they had forced them to watch an entire scene it might of got him a not guilty verdict. However I doubt it. .................................................. .................................................. .................. I wonder if people here would think the same if this were a video without sex and porn. Someone was pouring piss into a girls mouth, covering her face with puke, forcing something down her mouth to make her vomit. Slapping her so hard she cries. Put the girls clothes on and then think if you agree with his freedom of speech. Now ask yourself if the guy would get arrested for assault even if the girl was paid? Then remember bum fights. Thinking outside the box too much for some? |
that's what you get from a justice system based on random morons snatched from the streets, sitting together in a room all being the biggest hypocrites to eachother when it comes to porn - saying you've seen it before or that you get off to it, or just saying that you think it's acceptable, to the other 11 people is what the majority will never do. Preserving their 'reputation' to 11 complete strangers is more important to them than protecting the freedoms of the people. Short sighted and egoistic: The definition of the human race.
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Thi part of Miller bothers me and needs to be redressed in the courts "4. The jury may measure the essentially factual issues of prurient appeal and patent offensiveness by the standard that prevails in the forum community, and need not employ a "national standard."" If this shit holds up websites will just have to start IP blocking areas of the country where they might run into trouble. |
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They were able to get the max conviction in a pretty open minded place, they have over 72 adult video stores and Tampa isnt that huge of a place. They got it because it was so over the top. Also they did watch a whole dvd in court.The jury was very upset by it, so I guess that prompted the judge for them not to have to go thru watching them all but that does gives him an opening for appeal. You cant compare his shit to rambo because we all know that's movie magic and acting. Some porn chick throwing up and crying is probably real and this probably makes it very hot for the people that get off on this type of stuff but for the regular person it makes it very disturbing. |
what a bad situation!
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Max HC shit is real no pun intended. There is no story line and he can't claim there is any artistic value too the scenes. Why do you think porn in the 70's and 80's always had bad acting and story lines? Why is it nude theaters would go to the lame plays in the nude to get around the laws? Why? because they could claim there was artistic value to it and beat the obscenity laws. Porn these days is just straight out fucking most of the time, because the law has been a lot more lax and the bar had been pushed back quite away so everyone felt safe. However, you just can't keep pushing and pushing and then be surprised when it pushes back. There is a limit when you are judged by community standards. If you are pushing the limits you damn sure better be able to show it has artistic value.. something it seems Max HC couldn't do.. |
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For instance in closing arguments, the prosecution said the jury could "send a message" with a conviction, even though the judge specifically forbade them from implying that the jury could send a message with a conviction. Sirkin moved for a mistrial, denied. The fact that the judge herself had to have her arm twisted until it broke before she would allow all of the videos to be played in their entirety, and then they had to be played by the defense, not the prosecution, tells me that the judge had prejudice against the content. The fact that a juror wrote a note to the judge asking to not have to watch the rest of the videos but only excerpts, and that juror was not dismissed. Lots of stuff like that when put into the hands of jurists who care about the law (instead of a jury who was sick to their stomachs) makes me think Max will be ok. |
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Once again any DA anywhere can go after who he pleases. In Alabama they arrested people for selling dildos to married couples. |
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If you think about it, obscene is in the eye of the beholder. Hell, the government can't really define obscene. While some of us don't really care for his content, it is his right to produce it. Someone may find a solo masturbation scene or just softcore images to be obscene. Where will it end? All in all, this chipping away at our rights is going to hurt everyone and it won't be long before they start going after the softer stuff......all they need is a doorway. I hope he appeals and wins round two |
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I don't agree with Max's content.. not my thing. But his ability to deliver that product to people that request it shouldn't be questioned. It's not against the law for adults to have sex. It's not against the law to film it. I find some of the things that come across the TV to be highly inappropriate for my kids, but as a responsible adult, I shut the TV off or change the channel. That kind of content is more accessible than what Max does. Where's the outcry about that? (it's never coming of course). |
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Laws are supposed to be lines drawn in the sand. Don't cross this line or here's your punishment. They aren't supposed to be subjective. |
I have a feeling this is going to the supreme court.
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I think the Max Hardcore stuff lines up with Bumfights more than it does with Jackass. However, I also think MH has a better defense than the BF guys because he can make the argument that his models are interested sexually in what he is doing to them. None of the bums brought into the legal issues with Bumfights said they enjoyed their performance and were happy they had done it. I think combining violence with sex makes you a much bigger target than just producing something containing only violence or just producing something containing only sex. It simply makes *most* people nervous and uncomfortable so it's easier to prosecute and (attempt to) regulate. |
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Can you tell me what are the obscenity that Max hardcore did? I can't find it on the link
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The envelop you pushed was nothing compared to the current issue... even for that time. When something gets pushed too far a line must be drawn. Perhaps you think snuff films should fall under freedom of expression as well.. Now I must get back to selling my bibles. |
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