That's why we have the first amendment, to protect unpopular speech.
It's the most extreme stuff that needs that protection.

But, I guess we have this great government that we all trust to tell us what is ok to watch. No, no, can't make up your mind for yourself... Oh, ok. then I guess we can just get rid of the first amendment now. We don't need it. The government has it all taken care of.

Have you seen the makeup of the supreme court lately?

I may not agree with what he does but it's his right to do what he does.

It's stacked with right wing nuts, nuts I tell you.

Nixon stacked the court in the 70's too. And they went after porn.

It's the same culture war that's being fueled by the religiuous right wingers in high places. The ones that don't know how to feel about their own sexuality, so, like all crazies, they point the blame at an easy target.

Gosh. This is a sad day in America. Sad.

Besides being an idiot, the President is a liar too
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sm73wOuPL60

Read pleasurepays he makes some sense,its the hard truth:

If people in this biz weren’t totally retarded, totally disorganized and actually had some guidelines and standards to work and live by this industry wouldn’t have many real legal problems. How about not pushing? how about setting some clear, defensible boundaries and staying within them… rather than always challenging the world to shut you down?

There is a difference between drawing the line in the sand, one which you know can be defended and staying behind it and the totally incorrect assumption that anything and everything you do is somehow Constitutionally protected and to keep pushing the most influential groups in this country to shut you down by making sure they always have the ammo they need to keep firing at you until they hit something.

Right now many of you US idiots want to make the argument that shitting on, pissing on, vomiting on, pissing in girls mouths until they choke and cry etc isn’t “obscene” or isn’t obscene in GodsVillage, Indiana… and most of you then go further to suggest that what he is going through is unfair as if no one really knew that you can’t just mail out totally over the top porn with some old wrinkly fuck pissing into a girls mouth until she starts to choke and cry to any state, county and city in the country without a serious risk of being prosecuted.

Really?

The biggest problem with this industry is that it is full of anti-social idiots with a strong resentment for authority. Thats all fine and well when you are rebelling against your alcoholic father who frequently tried to kiss you or watch you take a bath… but it’s not hardly a winning formula for the long term success of a controversial industry whose greatest enemies are infinitely more organized, deep pocketed and focused on the simple goal of stopping you and that usually have the public and federal government behind them to do it.

The “rights” you many of you seem to think you have in the US are an illusion. People make the laws. People make the laws against people like you. They can because they know you are weak. You are the low hanging fruit of society. They will attack you because they know no one is going to defend you… because you can’t defend yourselves. They will continue to attack you because they can always rely on the fact that you will constantly be throwing whatever offensive thing you do right in their face and daring them to do something about it. And they are fucking you over right now. They are arguing that each one of you is a Max Hardcore,.. no better. A disease in society. Eventually, they will win and you will lose and it will be your fault, because far too many people in this industry are irretrievably damaged, self destructive fuck ups… and because no one will separate you and what you do from the absolute worst of the worst in this biz.

The public doesn’t see (and never will see) “good” and “bad” pornographers. They just see “pornographers” and the public perception of you will never be any better than the publics perception of Max Hardcore and some old guy shitting on an 18 year old runaway while she cries. And its not the publics fault. It’s your fault. You repeatedly make the choice to defend the worst of the worst in a political and social climate where you will eventually lose. You don’t even have the sense to pick and choose battles and choose battles you can win. Instead, you let the worst of the worst in this industry pick a fight on your behalf. Brilliant! Are you fucking kidding me? Eventually you will lose these fights… And once you finally lose… you will lose big because the fight against you will never stop and you don’t have the brains or foresight to organize and defend yourselves, set standards and police yourselves. Instead… you are happy doing lines of cocaine off a strippers ass while complaining about who is President and how unfair life is and will just let the Christian Right do it for you.

How will the government restrict your business because you didn’t have the brains, foresight and organizational skills to put yourself in a defensible position first? Because in the most important fights, you choose to not have a strong defensive plan or even an offense?

This industry is like a really big, cocky, heavy weight fighter with a glass jaw. Eventually, its going to catch one on the chin and it will be lights out for all. It’s not a question of “if”… only “when” …. and why? because most of you stupid assholes prefer to think its your “right” and will keep doing that until its finally decided to take that “right” away because you just can’t and won’t see the bigger picture.

So it might take years before the SC hears the case.

Not anymore it's not. Not ours either.

I would laugh my ass off if a few of the members from the jury beat off to watching the evidence. :)

This is really going to cost Max allot of money! I'm sure he will get off on appeal.

While it does seem extreme, I believe that is the law and it really needs to be changed to redefine community standards. The three part test for determination of obscenity as defined by Miller Vs. California was made in the 1970's. It really needs to be updated to redefine community standards for the internet era.
WG

Consent of the governed? The opinions of the vox populi are the reason Max is in trouble in the first place. The majority of the governed could care less about this trial and a huge number of self-righteous people I'm sure support the decision.

its sucks for Max but I have no doubt he knew this day was coming and has planned for it. So he has the resources for multiple rounds.

This is the same public which in the majority have all watch porn in thier lives and enjoyed it. The same public by the MILLIONS that go the the local porn shop, look on the internet order on PPV or enjoy at the hotel when on vacation. So yes public, see us as evil and don't defned us and one day when you go searching for your porn and it can't be found you have yourself to blame.

That's right. If an idiot took someone to court everytime they found something obscene it would be ridicululous. If they don't like Max Hardcore's work then don't friggin look at it. Some people just like to make court and lawsuits their hobby. I think all of the simple minded omish acting people should start a colony somewhere and allow only what they want into it that way they can stay out of the real world. They need to find a new hobby. :321GFY

And even a conservative SC will not agree with the fact that some backwater community standards should apply tot eh internet. A porn shop is a real building that is in the community. The internet is something that each individual let's or not into his own home. No SC will agree with the fact that your neighbors can dictate what you watch on TV or your computer in the privacy of your own home.

Those aren't my words but he brings up strong points. The motion picture industry stopped government censorship by policing themselves.

Appeal coming for sure. Watch for it.

Give em hell Max. I don't care for your brand of crappola but I'll defend your right to produce it. I've never heard of one model complaining about working with you. Ever.

AVN Story:

Max Hardcore Found Guilty in Obscenity Trial
Jurors find Max and his company guilty on all counts
By: David Sullivan

Posted: 06/05/2008

TAMPA - Producer Max Hardcore (a.k.a. Paul Little) was found guilty of 10 federal counts of distributing obscene materials over the Internet and through the mail.

Little's company Maxworld Entertainment was also found guilty on 10 related charges.

Earlier today, jurors asked U.S. District Judge Susan Bucklew for guidance as the jury was having trouble reaching a unanimous decision.

Full Story

My point is people in my area would look down on me for making a living the way I do. Yet these same people are gleefully jacking thier dicks and diddling their pussies to the very same material that I am some sort of "scumbag" for pushing.

Jurors need to be told there's a difference between "distasteful" and "unlawful." Just because the material isn't your personal preference does not make it obscene.

so......where were the Free Speech Coalition peeps during this? hmmmm

F'ing nosy neighbors. It's our right to decide what we watch and what we do as long as it falls within the law, and even out of the law sometimes I believe. I believe Max was within the lines and it's shitty that a jury and a judge whom apparently didn't care much for porn made a biased decision. It's not like his models did it without consent. And because his work is a little more controversial, you know he keeps all of his paperwork handy. I hope he beats this because I think the whole thing is stupid. Why don't they go after child pornographers and molesters instead.

More anlalysis from our legal team should come tomorrow....

One of, if not the, best posts I've ever read here.

:thumbsup

Please do not go there Tony, I do agree with much of what you say however the MPAA is much worse than anything the Government could legally come up with as guidelines. Hell even the CCA is fucking insane if you look over its history starting in 54.

oh your preaching to the choir, ever realize the more righteous the political scumbag then they find out he is trying bang page boys or the minister buying gay whores smoking meth.

your right, watched a documentary on them but you dont see people going to jail for making a movie.

Max would not of needed any legal help and honestly the FSC would just bungle things otherwise. Reality would say that they need to change their name and sell off the 2 phones and whatever office furniture they have.

that was written by PleasurePays - the best poster on any adult board EVER!

Yes, yes and yes. Well said.

The Miller Test is not a very good way to define obscenity. It's plain aweful and overly vague. The way it's written ANY work is subject to an indictement.

Watch the documentary "Inside Deep Throat" it is very educational about how all the obscenity prosections were started by Nixon and the religious right. Crooks.

wasnt his personal lawyer,I forget his name on the board of the fsc?

quoted for truth.

I still hope the earth swallows him tomorrow, but if it doesn't, I hope he wins on appeal.

Indeed!

I'd never heard of PleasurePays before now. Just did a search for him here and hit him up on ICQ.

One of the most well written, well thought-out posts I've ever read here.

I have. There have been a few articles written about it. I don't remember the details and have no way to know if it's true, but the allegations have been made at least.

This is bad however Vanilla you shoot or where your site is served.

With one banning of a questionable book we have banned and burned them all.

Get ready for all porn hell to break loose from big brother.

The landslide is coming - and this is an election year!!!

FUCK!!!

some of you people are so naive or far out on looney street it hurts - it's like you just were made aware that you live in a country with obscenity laws and can't believe it.

a middle aged man makes movies where he pees in the mouth of 18 year old girls dressed up to look 12 and forced to call him Mister over and over and you are shocked that this might be judged to be obscene by 12 citizens? :1orglaugh

I think if someone has vanilla fucking and sucking or some solo girl jacking off,its much harder to go after. When you show it, you don't get that reaction from the jury they need to win. They are numb to it for the most part.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. There was a case a while back where a judge said that by posting something on the internet you are making it available to all communities and that you could be held accountable by some of them. He said that a person doesn't have a constitutional right to put something on the internet especially if the know it could be considered illegal in some areas.

It has a been a while since I saw the article so I don't remember what judge said this and it wasn't a ruling but basically he was saying you could make a porn video and sell it locally and you would be exercising your freedom of speech, but that the freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you the right to sell it anywhere you please. They could easily take someone to court in Godwater, Deep South and say that you are making that available to our community and we think it is obscene. People in California may not feel that way, but we do so we have the right to take you to task for it.

So I wouldn't be so sure if that argument was made the the SC would not find for them and say that local governments can go after websites that are available in their community. This has been a conversation that has been going on for some time and there was never a case out there that set any kind of legal precedence. If this ruling is allowed to stand there would now be one.

I would like to think that somewhere up the chain someone would agree that the internet is a voluntary thing and that each of us determines our own standards when using it. There is all kinds of filtering software out there that lets you block things you don't want so, as you say, your neighbor shouldn't be allowed to tell you what you can and can't look at in your home and you can block stuff you don't want to see. That said you never know what a court will do and I can see how some of the SC judges could find themselves saying, "Communities should be allowed to protect themselves from having this filth piped into their homes."

All this said, I think mainstream stuff, anything softcore and stuff considered pretty much vanilla, would be very hard to prosecute anywhere. Hell, half the shows on MTV are nearly porn and regular porn is becoming more and more mainstream with each passing day. I don't think there will be an all out war on porn, but I wouldn't be surprised (if this case eventually is allowed to stand) if there were not more prosecutions of the extreme type content.

The problem is that DAs should surely know this will be appealed and thus if they start to go hog wild and then the SC decides that "community standards" don't apply to the internet you will see all sorts reversals of convictions and possible lawsuits against for wrongful prosecution. Caution you'd think would err on the side of letting this appeal play itself out first.

When everyone on the jury goes home tonight I hope they realize how bad they fucked up freedom of Speech in America. We just went back 200 years. This sucks.

I agree. You know he will appeal so I would think any further action would wait until the appeal process is played out so they can see where they stand and what happens. If it is allowed to stand, it could be very bad for us. If it is eventually overturned or a new trial is granted and Max wins, then it is very good for us.

The odds were very much stacked against him on this.
He's just lucky that the government hasn't declared him a terrorist.

I was surprised when they picked tampa. It seems like they have a strip club or adult book store on every other corner.

Hate Max. Love Freedom. This sucks.

I was referring to an actual person or persons rather, stepping forward and complaining publicly about working with him. I've never seen anywhere where this has happened. Doesn't mean it hasn't, it means what I said... that I have never seen it.

Mere allegations and/or accusations mean very little to me.

I find your shit obscene ... I hope they nail you to the cross ....:2 cents:

what? the guy who puts out videos talking about 3 year olds getting raped and assfucking some chick's 10 year old sister was found guilty of obscenity charges? so it ain't so!

IMO, The Prosecution/Judge/Jury/Verdict are all a major disgrace and an insult to America, freedom, and the Constitution!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope the case will be appealed.

I don't personally get sexually turn-on by the content involved in the case, but I support Max's Free Speech rights. I feel that the wrong decision was made today by this jury.

I wonder if the jurors were subjectively more concerned about getting home for supper than they were about an objective verdict, especially since just hours before they were reported as being deadlocked on many of the charges---I predict that we’ll later hear about some jurors “caving in” to the pressure of the others who didn’t want to report for deliberations in the morning.

Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

I thought that too it was like they didnt want to come back on friday. So complex to be decided so quickly.