Russia and China, democracy and capitalism

[xmas13]

Russia and China are somehow more democratic and capitalist than the US and UK, with less business regulation (wild capitalism), and leaders defending sovereignty & national interest (nationalism).

70% of Russians support Vladimir Putin. 70% of Americans want George W. Bush out.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,347749,00.html

Americans who spy against the U.S. are increasingly motivated by ideology rather than by money, with nearly half of the known spies since the end of the Cold War showing allegiance to another country or cause, according to a government report.

Before 1990, 77 spies in the database were solely or primarily motivated by money, compared to 22 who were motivated by ideology.

Do you feel closer to internationalists like American and British governments, or nationalists like Russian and Chinese governments?

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I invented The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

[Walrus]

China: A country with very few human rights. Look at what they are doing to these Tibetan protesters. They are beating them, killing them, and throwing them in jail. What freedom do they have over there?

Russia: A country that claims they are a democracy now, yet are still stuck in their old Soviet Union ways. Remember that Moscow Seige in the Theater about five years ago? That is a perfect example of how they still deal with things. In secrecy. And the Russian people seem to not even care either. There was no protesting after the Russian Special Forces gassed and killed over 150 citizens. I think we forget how lucky we are here in America. We have problems too, but not as bad as these countries.

Who can possibly feel closer to these kind of governments?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Walrus

Russia: A country that claims they are a democracy now, yet are still stuck in their old Soviet Union ways. Remember that Moscow Seige in the Theater about five years ago? That is a perfect example of how they still deal with things. In secrecy. And the Russian people seem to not even care either. There was no protesting after the Russian Special Forces gassed and killed over 150 citizens. I think we forget how lucky we are here in America. We have problems too, but not as bad as these countries.

"Russian Special Forces gassed and killed over 150 citizens"? Really? Do you remember how many citizens the CIA has killed on 9/11? Do you really happy with that?

P.S. How many US soldiers have died in Iraq and Afghanistan for NOTHING? Do you call that democracy?

[RedGlamourStudio]

Walrus, use alternative sources of the information for reception of data on Russia, for example:
http://www.russiatoday.ru/

[Jens Van Assterdam]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

"Russian Special Forces gassed and killed over 150 citizens"? Really? Do you remember how many citizens the CIA has killed on 9/11? Do you really happy with that?

No i dont remember the CIA killing anyone on 9/11.. please hand me some waterproof numbers

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Machete Rodriguez

No i dont remember the CIA killing anyone on 9/11.. please hand me some waterproof numbers

I don't want to provide you any numbers. If you want you'll find them yourself.

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Do you remember how many citizens the CIA has killed on 9/11? Do you really happy with that?

yeah and I heard that New Orleans was flooded cause Bush forgot to turn off the tap in his bathtub...the bastard.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

yeah and I heard that New Orleans was flooded cause Bush forgot to turn off the tap in his bathtub...the bastard.

I don't know about New Orleans but I know this:
1) Osama Bin Laden is a former CIA agent.
2) The US air defence has shot down a civilian plane which was hijacked by terrorists and directed to Washington on 9/11. How many civilians died?
3) The CIA has all the info on terrorist plans a month before 9/11 but did nothing to prevent it (read: simply allowed thousands of the US civilians to die)
4) The CIA and Bush lied to start war in Iraq. This lie has killed thousands of American soldiers and over 1 million if Iraqi civilians.
5) Almost all the US soldiers who died in Afghanistan were killed by Taliban - the organization created by CIA.
etc..

Still funny? How could you call this a democracy if the US government and CIA use you as brainless bunch of sheep and send you to die just because they want? How long will you suffer that madness?

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Still funny? How could you call this a democracy if the US government and CIA use you as brainless bunch of sheep and send you to die just because they want? How long will you suffer that madness?

when you are in the military of ANY country you go into combat and die because your government wants you to....they dont start a debate with the soldiers and take a vote on who wants to go and who doesnt. Dont want to go into combat? Dont join the army.

And you are Russian yes? Then you have absolutely no valid ground to critize any other governments policies or actions. Clean up the shit in your own back yard first.

the CIA helped the taliban because The Russian govenrnment invaded afghanistan so in your logic the ultimate blame for the rise of power of Bin Ladin should go to the Russians.

[Due]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

you have absolutely no valid ground to critize any other governments policies or actions. Clean up the shit in your own back yard first.

AMEN TO THAT I wish americans would do that as well

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

the CIA helped the taliban because The Russian govenrnment invaded afghanistan so in your logic the ultimate blame for the rise of power of Bin Ladin should go to the Russians.

so the USA helped terrorists ??? or if you prefer " insurgents " .....

And now you guys bitch because Iraq neighbor ( and same religion ) is possibily helping the Iraqi Freedom Fighters ....

You guys have a real hard time with logic ....

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

when you are in the military of ANY country you go into combat and die because your government wants you to....

Seems you have no idea what democracy does mean

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

the CIA helped the taliban because The Russian govenrnment invaded afghanistan so in your logic the ultimate blame for the rise of power of Bin Ladin should go to the Russians.

What a naive statement



"Dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan", Rambo III

[GetSCORECash]

China and Russia both promote economic growth, they invest government money into busines.

China and Russia both peg thier currencies based on the United state dollar inorder to keep it at lower to dollar ratio.

These governments while not democratic are very involved in the day-to-day financial growth of thier citizens and business community.

The united states does give money to farmers, big oil and several other areas which a long time ago needed the money. We haven't invested in education, nor in the people who live in this country.

We are now importing nurses, doctors, scientist, programers, and many others as our population is not educated or trained to do these tasks.

Luckly as a human society, India and China are responding with more scientist, doctors, and programers.

Hey assian nurses are more polite!

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

so the USA helped terrorists ??? or if you prefer " insurgents " .....

And now you guys bitch because Iraq neighbor ( and same religion ) is possibily helping the Iraqi Freedom Fighters ....

You guys have a real hard time with logic ....

whos bitching? where did I bitch? maybe you need to read better before making comments. I didnt agree with it...I mentioned that its hypocritical to critize another governments actions when your own has done the same if not worse things.

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Seems you have no idea what democracy does mean

democracy is when the people elect their rules, which is what happens in the US...the person who gets elected may not be the best but he is elected...thats what a democracy is

maybe you should explain to me what a democracy is since you seem to be such an expert and live in a country where democratic ideals are held high...

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

What a naive statement



"Dedicated to the gallant people of Afghanistan", Rambo III

how is it a naive statement? did the Russians not invale Afganistan? did they not murder thousands, rape, kill children? are you saying all that didnt happen?

Im not condoning what the CIA or the US government did but for you to critize another persons government and act like you are better is laughable when your own leaders are guilty of crimes just as bad...

Funny how all these people who denounce the US and their people and government have no problem taking their money....just like the same people complaining about China yet buy their goods at Walmart...

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

so the USA helped terrorists ??? or if you prefer " insurgents " .....

And now you guys bitch because Iraq neighbor ( and same religion ) is possibily helping the Iraqi Freedom Fighters ....

You guys have a real hard time with logic ....

yeah same thing.....idiot..

the same "freedom fighters" from the same religion are killing their own people...

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

democracy is when the people elect their rules, which is what happens in the US

So most of the American citizens support war in Iraq and they are happy to know that US soldiers die there just for Bush's fun?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

how is it a naive statement?

Because you helped to TERRORISTS and now you got paid for that on 100%.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Look at Chicago, they are doing the same thing to blacks there

Originally Posted by Walrus

China: A country with very few human rights. Look at what they are doing to these Tibetan protesters. They are beating them, killing them, and throwing them in jail. What freedom do they have over there?

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Look at Chicago, they are doing the same thing to blacks there

not condoning what China is doing in Tibet but lets not forget that the majority of us only saw the part where the Chinese troops attacked the protesters....the media convienantly left out the part where the protesters were throwing rocks and other projectiles into the troops, actions which the Daila Lama himself has said goes against his belief of non violent methods.

Wish more people would watch BBC instead of Fox and CNN, still not perfect but definetely a lot less one sided.

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

So most of the American citizens support war in Iraq and they are happy to know that US soldiers die there just for Bush's fun?

the American people make their voices heard in many ways, and hopefully they will do it at the polling stations when it comes to elect a new leader...the people dont run the military, becuase they are not qualified to do so...thats why we put people in power who we think can do the best job...unfortunately that wasnt the case this time.

now let me ask you something, since you are hell bent of showing us how undemocratic the US is....what would happen if there were similar protests in Russia? You know the country where you "elect" your leaders, the country where only the guy picked by Putin gets any national air time to make his voice heard...

[spunkmister]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

Because you helped to TERRORISTS and now you got paid for that on 100%.

so when the Chechen rebels attack Russian civilians I guess I can say its just payback for how your government treats them right? and Im sure when that happens you will be fine with me saying it and wont argue any different...because its just you guys getting paid back.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

the American people make their voices heard in many ways, and hopefully they will do it at the polling stations when it comes to elect a new leader...

Exactly as I expected: many words but no straight answer.

Originally Posted by spunkmister

so when the Chechen rebels attack Russian civilians

Are you stupid or what? Chechnya is a part of Russia, so if one Russian man is trying to kill another one, he's being considered as a criminal but not as a "rebel" or a "pope". How could you compare internal Russian criminals with external terrorism supported by your government? You really have a serious lack of logic

[xmas13]

The US is run by unelected bureaucrats, elites and business leaders.

Big media is the unofficial US Department for Desinformation.

US and European Public don't know anything about the Council on Foreign Relations, the world's most influential think tank.

They are pro-war on terrorism, pro-globalization, pro-immigration ... etc. It doesn't take a genius to figure out their agenda matches the West political agenda. What a happy coincidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council...eign_Relations
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/200701...al-values.html

Also a pure coincidence if Western European Prime Ministers, US Presidents, former CIA agents and mega corporations are involved in the CFR.

[xmas13]

A parallel can be drawn between Russian / Chinese and Western leaders.

All of them are pocketing enormous amounts of money by pretending to save their nation or the world.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by xmas13

A parallel can be drawn between Russian / Chinese and Western leaders.

All of them are pocketing enormous amounts of money by pretending to save their nation or the world.

So true.

[theking]

Originally Posted by cyberxxx

I don't know about New Orleans but I know this:
1) Osama Bin Laden is a former CIA agent.
2) The US air defence has shot down a civilian plane which was hijacked by terrorists and directed to Washington on 9/11. How many civilians died?
3) The CIA has all the info on terrorist plans a month before 9/11 but did nothing to prevent it (read: simply allowed thousands of the US civilians to die)
4) The CIA and Bush lied to start war in Iraq. This lie has killed thousands of American soldiers and over 1 million if Iraqi civilians.
5) Almost all the US soldiers who died in Afghanistan were killed by Taliban - the organization created by CIA.
etc..

Still funny? How could you call this a democracy if the US government and CIA use you as brainless bunch of sheep and send you to die just because they want? How long will you suffer that madness?

Every point you made is 100% pigshit.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by theking

Every point you made is 100% pigshit.

Of course, because everything about 9/11 is 100% pigshit

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Cyberxxx STOP USING TIN FOIL!

Ya wrap food with it, ya do not fucken eat it!

[Libertine]

The batshit insanity is strong in this one.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by spunkmister

democracy is when the people elect their rules, which is what happens in the US...the person who gets elected may not be the best but he is elected...thats what a democracy is

maybe you should explain to me what a democracy is since you seem to be such an expert and live in a country where democratic ideals are held high...

Actually that is not what a democracy is, and the U.S. is not a democracy. Sorry to be a jerk, but stating the U.S. is a democracy shows you don't know what that form of government is.

[J. Falcon]

Originally Posted by theking

Every point you made is 100% pigshit.

Bin Laden was not a former CIA tactician?

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by J. Falcon

Bin Laden was not a former CIA tactician?

What evidence do you have that he was a CIA tactician? Most of the claims have been that the U.S. helped fund and sell weapons for groups he worked with. To call him a tactician is a stretch, he was hardly on the U.S. radar at the time.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by Machete Rodriguez

No i dont remember the CIA killing anyone on 9/11.. please hand me some waterproof numbers

how many did FBI burn alive in Waco, TX in 1992? remind me plz.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Alexis Content

how many did FBI burn alive in Waco, TX in 1992? remind me plz.

Oh come on. What was the government supposed to do? Just let a bunch of murderers and child rapists sit around?

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Oh come on. What was the government supposed to do? Just let a bunch of murderers and child rapists sit around?

really? didn't know kids can be "murderers and child rapists"..
http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/waco-victims.html
who did they kill or rape?
so how is that any different from Russian special forces gassing terrorists and unfortunately inocent civilians? What were they supposed to do?

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Please and you do?

I never said that Russia is a true democratic country. But at least I can see and accept it. However, you can't. You still believe into all that bullshit about democracy, freedom etc. Very pathetic.

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Putin the Russian president leaves office and appoints himself PM and then choses his successor. Well, let's not also forget he jailed all the other "hopeful" candidates.

Putin jailed all the other "hopeful" candidates??? Really? You are crazy man, really Could you call at least 1-2 names here?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

And...<insert drum role> ...Putin is estimated to be worth $30 billion.

Any facts? Bush is estimated to be a son of devil. So what? Why should we speak about rumors like old loquacious women?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Yes, we Americans need your/Russian advice on democracy.

I never tried to give you any advices on democracy. I believe you confused me with someone else.

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

You had no problem jumping in to "your" Theory of the CIA murdering people.

Seems your English is even worse than mine or you just can't read. "My" theory of the CIA was mentioned as an answer to this post: http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showpo...85&postcount=3

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Would your opinion and energy be more useful on preventing future Russian atrocities?

I'm not sure which exactly "Russian atrocities" you are talking about. Do you mean the USSR times, tsarist Russia before 1917, or modern Russia after 1991? Could you please be more specific because these are 3 different political systems. In a same way as Indian America before Columbus, the slave-holding America and the modern USA - all those countries are different. However I never called you a slave-holding beast because of all the atrocities your ancestors did to the black people. Right?

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I believe Stalin still holds the world record on oppression, starvation, genocide, and fear.

Stalin was GEORGIAN. He has never been Russian. But once again, re-read my comment about your slave-holding ancestors. You are not responsible for their crimes as well as I'm not responsible for the crimes of mad Georgian moron who died when my father and mother haven't yet met each other.

P.S. BTW, I'm in a very good mood because of Russia-Czech hockey match (we won 3:2), but now I'm gonna sleep (it's 2:47AM here), so please continue this very intelligent discussion without me

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

I believe Stalin still holds the world record on oppression, starvation, genocide, and fear.

you believe, Native Americans or Blacks don't. They can think of local american Stalins that did them great favor.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Alexis Content

really? didn't know kids can be "murderers and child rapists"..
http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/waco-victims.html
who did they kill or rape?
so how is that any different from Russian special forces gassing terrorists and unfortunately inocent civilians? What were they supposed to do?

Every single major report from the incident has stated the fires were started from within the compound by members. Nonetheless, it was a hostage situation that went wrong. It happens. The criminals are the ones who should be blamed, not law enforcement for doing what they felt was right.

[femdomdestiny]

Even if Russia is not democratic at all, Putin know what he is doing and he is doing it best regarding situation where Russia was 18 years ago. No real dmeocracy anywhere, it is just question will we be in situation to feel that on our skin. But probably, it must be like that since not all people want just to watch porn and make websites but some of them want to conquer or force others to their religion and beliefs. That's why many times "democracy" must forgotten.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Every single major report from the incident has stated the fires were started from within the compound by members. Nonetheless, it was a hostage situation that went wrong. It happens. The criminals are the ones who should be blamed, not law enforcement for doing what they felt was right.

ok, so how is it any different with hostage situatio in russian theater?
PS: what "other" reports did you expect? did you expect them to tell public that FBI killed 100 of their own citizens? Get real. We did win war in Vietnam, remember?

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Alexis Content

ok, so how is it any different with hostage situatio in russian theater?
PS: what "other" reports did you expect? did you expect them to tell public that FBI killed 100 of their own citizens? Get real. We did win war in Vietnam, remember?

You really think the FBI went in there trying to kill all 100 people? Do you have any evidence to back this up? Or is this just pulled from some conspiracy site? Is it so improabable to believe that a bunch of fucking brainwashed lunatics may have killed themselves thinking it was for God?

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

wow wow wow. You missed the point. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

But if we are on the subject Stalin spawned many deaths:

Stalin Era: 50 million
Mao regime: 40 million + Tibet 600k
North Korea: 1,663,000
Cambodia, Khmer Rouge (1975-1978): 1.650 000

Too lazy to look up all, but if you follow it back it points to Stalin and his ideology. Also, if you knew anything about American black culture you would also know that per-capita African Americans are the most successful and prosperous then any other of African descent.

Excuse me while I fart.. Lets look at % of native Americans exterminated by settlers not the numbers.
Lets think of blacks back in 50’s not now. Name me “most successful and prosperous” blacks back than. Tell me, how many of them went to Harvard or Yale Universities.

if you knew anything about American black culture you would also know that per-capita African Americans are the most successful and prosperous then any other of African descent.

Oh that’s cute. Who you comparing them to? Siera Leone blacks? Ethiopian blacks? No shit Einstein, guess what, American blacks have best fried chicken in the world, and best variety of fruit flavored sodas than any other black-heritage nation in the world. Woo-hoo, great success.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

You really think the FBI went in there trying to kill all 100 people? Do you have any evidence to back this up? Or is this just pulled from some conspiracy site? Is it so improabable to believe that a bunch of fucking brainwashed lunatics may have killed themselves thinking it was for God?

You really think KGB or what ever their name is nowadays went in to that Russian theater to kill 150 people and “kill” the democracy? Don’t answer question with question. You’re not selling me user car here.

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Alexis Content

You really think KGB or what ever their name is nowadays went in to that Russian theater to kill 150 people and ?kill? the democracy? Don?t answer question with question. You?re not selling me user car here.

I thought we were talking about Waco?

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

I thought we were talking about Waco?

no, we’re talking about russia, china usa and how much there alike. You haven’t noticed yet.