PHP or ASP.NET

[Azoy?]

OK so I am going to ask the majority here.
Any particulars about one or the other that makes it worthwhile besides the Microsoft license issue.
So let?s pretend both cost money or both were free which you would choose based on the actual language itself?
What do you prefer to work with? PHP or ASP.NET and why the preference?

[GrouchyAdmin]

PHP. It's free, it has tons of documentation, a very large base of examples to use and learn from, and it works on more platforms than Windows.

However, PHP can (and usually is) sloppily written, so you need to learn how to do things the correct way.. not all of the documentation is worth anything.

[Kard63]

If you want to work for yourself or a small company learn php. If you live in a big city and want to work for a big corporation learn ASP.net. This is it. Period. I am right.

[Masterchief]

what kard63 said..if you're just doing stuff for yourself, then PHP is probably the best route. otherwise if you're looking to get a job, then .NET no doubt. the pay for php is a joke compared to what you can make doing .NET

[D Ghost]

Php......

[okok]

Originally Posted by Azoy?

OK so I am going to ask the majority here.
Any particulars about one or the other that makes it worthwhile besides the Microsoft license issue.
So let?s pretend both cost money or both were free which you would choose based on the actual language itself?
What do you prefer to work with? PHP or ASP.NET and why the preference?

In decent-sized cities you can find a number of junior to mid-level ASP.NET programmers. If the cost is not a problem -- and you anticipate building a web-based system that will be used, abused, and updated aggressively for a few years -- then basing your tech on ASP.NET is probably a good thing, if simply because you'll always be able to build out your staff.

PHP developers are increasingly difficult to find lately. I mean "PHP developers," not "guys who've written a few things in PHP." After having dealt with some large PHP projects in the past couple years, I would definitely consider ASP.NET or Java for my next project simply because of what I perceive to be a gap between the number of qualified PHP developers and the number of qualified ASP.NET or Java developers.

I expect this to change in the not too distant future. Personally, I think PHP is terrific (and Perl better ;P), but it's wearing on me that there seems to be a lack of professional-level PHP developers in the wild looking for new work.

[morningstar]

PHP! because its not a Microsoft product.

[GrouchyAdmin]

Originally Posted by okok

IPersonally, I think PHP is terrific (and Perl better ;P), but it's wearing on me that there seems to be a lack of professional-level PHP developers in the wild looking for new work.

If that ain't the truth. There's no 'use Strict' in PHP, and even if there was, somebody would find a way to not use it.

[Azoy?]

bump to get more feedback from everyone else at GFY

[freshxxxmovie]

php for sure

[draude]

do php...

[nnweb]

hands down asp.net C#.

[Nookster]

C and PHP. C# and ASP is a joke. Seriously.

Although you could get a better paying job with ASP, it is always not the best idea to develop with it.

[scoopyu]

PHP is much easier of ASP

[mrkris]

I can't say anything bad about ASP.NET since I have not used it, but I have friends who do, and they all hate it. As far as the previous statement regarding "Learn ASP if you want a good job", this is incorrect. Since there is a large gap between what one thinks is a developer and what is required to BE a developer, finding someone that knows what they are doing is difficult, thus, the jobs pay better than what I've seen with ASP.

[ScriptWorkz]

I personally have / can develop both, and php wins hands down everytime. It's flexibility, ease of deploying, cost, etc.. all make it way better then ASP (C#, VBS, JS, whatever)

If you want a bunch of useless extra confulated code, go ASP / .NET

If you want a simple, flexible, easy, cost effective solution, go PHP

Don't blame the language for the way people use it to program, you can't say php isn't any good because you can't find developers, or because most developers write crap code, it's just that Most of the developers your finding are writing crap code.

There are plenty of us professional programmers (note: not coders, web developers, etc..) that write professional code, in php or any other language. It just turns out we're usually to busy to work for the peanuts that are usually offered around here.

anyway, just my

[Nookster]

Originally Posted by ScriptWorkz

I personally have / can develop both, and php wins hands down everytime. It's flexibility, ease of deploying, cost, etc.. all make it way better then ASP (C#, VBS, JS, whatever)

If you want a bunch of useless extra confulated code, go ASP / .NET

If you want a simple, flexible, easy, cost effective solution, go PHP

Don't blame the language for the way people use it to program, you can't say php isn't any good because you can't find developers, or because most developers write crap code, it's just that Most of the developers your finding are writing crap code.

There are plenty of us professional programmers (note: not coders, web developers, etc..) that write professional code, in php or any other language. It just turns out we're usually to busy to work for the peanuts that are usually offered around here.

anyway, just my

Well said.

[mrkris]

Originally Posted by ScriptWorkz

...

There are plenty of us professional programmers (note: not coders, web developers, etc..) that write professional code, in php or any other language. It just turns out we're usually to busy to work for the peanuts that are usually offered around here.

anyway, just my

I think implying that a developer is not a programmer is silly. Should I relate the 'Script' in your name and 'Workz' to you being a script kiddy who downloads hacks from packetstormsecurity.nl ?

[ScriptWorkz]

Originally Posted by mrkris

I think implying that a developer is not a programmer is silly. Should I relate the 'Script' in your name and 'Workz' to you being a script kiddy who downloads hacks from packetstormsecurity.nl ?

I mighta said that wrong (english is only my native language after php), i just was trying to point out the fact that there is a differance between a professional programmer and someone that knows a little php and does some freelance stuff.

[pornguy]

If you have the time, then do your self a favor, and learn BOTH. Once you get the basics of any language, then picking up a second is not that hard.

[mrkris]

Originally Posted by pornguy

If you have the time, then do your self a favor, and learn BOTH. Once you get the basics of any language, then picking up a second is not that hard.

Yeah, for the most part

[okok]

A couple of posters have stated things along the lines of "ASP.NET is a joke. PHP is awesome."

May I ask you to qualify those statements? Coming from a Perl background, I appreciate PHP's syntax, ease of use, and the ability to get functional prototypes out quickly. Nice, but those are my main reasons for doing toy development with it, and I would not base a business decision on that. Hell, if those were the only factors, I'd be advocating web apps in Scheme :D.

Plenty of mainstream companies are pushing tons of traffic through web apps that use ASP.NET. It can't be so absolutely bad, or it would be a no-brainer for the folks that have to make the decisions, and ASP.NET would die a quick death.

The only arguments I've heard so far that have merit are related to expense. If you don't have the budget for a proprietary platform, then it's easy to cross ASP.NET off your list.

[Nookster]

Originally Posted by okok

A couple of posters have stated things along the lines of "ASP.NET is a joke. PHP is awesome."

May I ask you to qualify those statements? Coming from a Perl background, I appreciate PHP's syntax, ease of use, and the ability to get functional prototypes out quickly. Nice, but those are my main reasons for doing toy development with it, and I would not base a business decision on that. Hell, if those were the only factors, I'd be advocating web apps in Scheme :D.

Plenty of mainstream companies are pushing tons of traffic through web apps that use ASP.NET. It can't be so absolutely bad, or it would be a no-brainer for the folks that have to make the decisions, and ASP.NET would die a quick death.

The only arguments I've heard so far that have merit are related to expense. If you don't have the budget for a proprietary platform, then it's easy to cross ASP.NET off your list.

I don't just say things without having anything to back them with. All I have to say is this:
ASP requires Windows to function correctly and efficiently. I don't think I need to elaborate on that any further.

[brandonstills]

I haven't tried ASP before but I can tell you I don't like PHP much either. I hate having to do $ and ->.

My other gripe is having to do $this->blah(). If the function doesn't exist in the current scope then check the class you dumb fuck.

And also:

$IAmATempVariableBecausePHPSucks = functionThatReturnsValue();
echo $IAmATempVariableBecausePHPSucks[0];

Instead of:
functionThatReturnsValue()[0];

It seems like all the really cool languages don't work well because they can't be deployed easily to the web backend.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Nookster

I don't just say things without having anything to back them with. All I have to say is this:
ASP requires Windows to function correctly and efficiently. I don't think I need to elaborate on that any further.

[okok]

Originally Posted by Nookster

I don't just say things without having anything to back them with. All I have to say is this:
ASP requires Windows to function correctly and efficiently. I don't think I need to elaborate on that any further.

You should definitely meet with Dell, Match.com, Monster.com, NewEgg.com, and a little start-up called MySpace. They all use ASP.NET. Someone should tell them that means they must be using Windows somewhere and that is so like uncool.

[derf9o9]

You might also want to consider ruby and python if you are looking to learn something new for yourself. Much easier to learn than both php and asp. They both also usually require much less code to get the same tasks done. Especially with ruby on rails. You usually also end up writing much cleaner code that is also more understandable. Especially with python.

To answer your question though, .net if your looking for a job(like someone mentioned), php if your looking to make your own scripts.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by okok

You should definitely meet with Dell, Match.com, Monster.com, NewEgg.com, and a little start-up called MySpace. They all use ASP.NET.

Yeah... we all see the absolute "perfection" with which MySpace worked in the past, and even now. If that's not a glowing recommendation, I do not know what is.

[okok]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Yeah... we all see the absolute "perfection" with which MySpace worked in the past, and even now. If that's not a glowing recommendation, I do not know what is.

I still haven't seen any real reasons not to use ASP.NET in this thread. Just platitudes about a certain accessible programming language, and one easy target hit squarely :D.

This devil's advocate gig is tougher than I thought.

[farkedup]

PHP jobs pay less simply because it is so much easier to use for rapid development. I at various times have been a hardcore perl guy then I moved onto ASP and finally I've settled into PHP and don't want to go back to either of the other ones. I can build something in PHP in a day that took a week in ASP.

There is simply MORE work available for a PHP programmer. If you're good you'll find yourself getting snagged up by one of the first people you do a big job for and they like you which is WHY there's a shortage of good PHP people in the wild... they simply get their schedule filled up by the first or second person that gives them regular work.

[mryellow]

ASP is bad.
ASP has improved.
ASP still sucks.
ASP will always suck by design.
Never use ASP.

-Ben

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by farkedup

There is simply MORE work available for a PHP programmer. If you're good you'll find yourself getting snagged up by one of the first people you do a big job for and they like you which is WHY there's a shortage of good PHP people in the wild... they simply get their schedule filled up by the first or second person that gives them regular work.

So fucking true.

[mryellow]

There are plenty of us professional programmers (note: not coders, web developers, etc..) that write professional code, in php or any other language. It just turns out we're usually to busy to work for the peanuts that are usually offered around here.

Amen. Yet to see anyone looking for code on GFY who was willing to pay what it would
cost to get a true working system instead of a pile of steaming crap. So many projects
failed due to lack of investment in a professional programmer.

-Ben

[farkedup]

Originally Posted by mryellow

Amen. Yet to see anyone looking for code on GFY who was willing to pay what it would
cost to get a true working system instead of a pile of steaming crap. So many projects
failed due to lack of investment in a professional programmer.

-Ben

the problem is places like those rentacoder type places where you get an idiot willing to do the job for 1/2 or 1/3 the price.

[Kard63]

No no, I was right. Everyone else is wrong. Except Masterchief. He said I was exactly right.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by okok

You should definitely meet with Dell, Match.com, Monster.com, NewEgg.com, and a little start-up called MySpace. They all use ASP.NET. Someone should tell them that means they must be using Windows somewhere and that is so like uncool.

Back in the day MySpace used Cold Fusion.

[brandonstills]

Originally Posted by farkedup

the problem is places like those rentacoder type places where you get an idiot willing to do the job for 1/2 or 1/3 the price.

Or the "We are a SEO company and can help get you on thousands of search engines."

I looked into getting work on those types of sites but quickly realized it was impossible to get distinguished from all the bullshit people that didn't understand what was involved in the project and made lame promises that couldn't be kept.

[brandonstills]

ASP programmers typically learned ASP because they are corporate programmers. Corporate programmers are typically college educated. A lot of PHP scripters (not programmers) picked it up as a necessity to get something done. That is the reason why PHP coders typically are very amateur. PHP is not taught in colleges AFAIK and that is another reason. Actually, I don't think ASP is either.

For the adult business you will find PHP is much more commonplace and also much easier to deploy on. If you decide to run Windows there's not much software in the adult industry you can install since most of it is PHP.

If you really want to understand the differences between languages I highly recommend the book "Programming Language Pragmatics". Not for the faint of heart.

In general, the more languages a programmer has programmed in the better a programmer he is. I'm studying Lisp right now, not because I plan on using it but because I think it will change the way I think about programming for the better. Each language you learn teaches you something and makes you a better programmer.

Personally, my eye is on Ruby and especially Rubinius. Unfortunately I can't use it as much as I would like because most of my clients can't deploy / use it on their servers.

[Libertine]

Advantages of PHP over ASP.NET:

- price
- cross platform compatibility
- speed (in some cases)
- plays well with MySQL
- speed of development

Advantages of ASP.NET over PHP:

- versatility (the .NET framework)
- speed (in some other cases)
- plays well with MSSQL

Personally, I much prefer PHP. Its biggest problem, though, is that it has by far the most unqualified developers. Since it's the language of choice for amateur scripters, finding decent programmers will often require lots of time sifting through amateurs.