Value Of Double-Optin Email Addresses - GoFuckYourself.com

Mutt · 10-12-2002, 12:52 PM

What do GFY people know about the double optin 'free' programs? Email programs like EZGreen and RiskyMail started it all. Hundreds of copycats followed. WEG/Join4Free innovated and refined the idea some more. BossHawg put his own twist on it and R-n Levi .....uh........ let's say he 'borrowed' Boss Hawg's ezine idea.

All these programs are based on buying and then marketing through double optin email addresses.

Most of these programs pay between 50 cents and a buck for each double optin address.

So my question is what do you think the $$$ value is of a single double optin address? Of course some people can and will do better with these addresses than others but i'm looking for a range.

So far most of these programs are still operating so things must
be working ok for them.

$2.00? $2.50? $3.00?

pimplink · 10-12-2002, 01:47 PM

I do double opt in email marketing. The problem with straight up selling your list is that it 1) has yet to be tested re which niche it converts best 2) culled for fakes. I know, #2 sounds a bit harsh but incentivized collected lists [ie., you pay people to collect email] will always include a certain % of unproductive email addresses.

playa · 10-12-2002, 01:54 PM

ya i be betting that lot of those emails filled with cheating emails

Backov · 10-12-2002, 02:20 PM

You forgot the 3rd problem.

If you sell it IT'S FUCKING SPAM.

Surfer sees site A.. Likes site A.. Naively enters his name in the email box to get site As offers.

Site A is run by a piece of shit and said piece of shit sells his list to Site B.. Site B starts sending to surfer.

That is the definition of spam.

Once you sell it, it's no longer opt in and you deserve what you get.

Krome · 10-12-2002, 03:06 PM

I have a 20,000 expired members list and have never mailed out to it and have never sold it...they have all joined a previus site of mine which is in the same niche as my new one.

What type of sign up ratios would I get using it if I mailed out with my new site?

Mutt · 10-12-2002, 03:17 PM

well in all these 4 Free type programs the surfer is forced to read terms and conditions that includes information that by accepting the '4 Free' offer and filling out the survey that the surfer is allowing his email address to be used by the operators of the 4 free site and any partners they may have now or in the future.

if u read some of these T & C for these programs you will see that the surfer is giving them almost carte blanche.

so legally they really are covered. they can't be liable for any spamming liability by them or any partner they might rent the list to or whatever.

we all know that this goes on in mainstream much worse than adult. I am getting more spam from mainstream companies everyday and it's not all for bogus crap. I'm getting ads from big
Fortune 500 and established mainstream companies - usually sent out by some email promotion company. I've never opted in to any of these companies. But i have registered from time to time
with free email accounts, software demos etc. So everybody now is selling lists from the big mainstream boys like Yahoo to the little porn guy.

all i wanted to know is what do you think these adult companies are taking in on each double optin email on average.
If the email costs them $1.00 does that email bring in $2.00 in revenue for a 100% profit? less? more?

funkmaster · 10-12-2002, 03:23 PM

Krome, you´ll be looking at 1-2 signups per mailing.

AnnihilaT · 10-12-2002, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by funkmaster
Krome, you´ll be looking at 1-2 signups per mailing.

Bullshit. Try 10-25.

gallerypost · 10-12-2002, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome
I have a 20,000 expired members list and have never mailed out to it and have never sold it...they have all joined a previus site of mine which is in the same niche as my new one.

What type of sign up ratios would I get using it if I mailed out with my new site?

around 1:100 signup ratio for ones who will get into your site.

Krome · 10-12-2002, 03:51 PM

How do I send the list out? You are talking to the most retarded person on the face of the planet when it comes to bulk emails...

vik · 10-12-2002, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome
How do I send the list out? You are talking to the most retarded person on the face of the planet when it comes to bulk emails...

Check out SubscribeMe Pro at Comreach.com
I use it for my in-house mailing lists, it works fantastic.

vik

Krome · 10-12-2002, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vik

Check out SubscribeMe Pro at Comreach.com
I use it for my in-house mailing lists, it works fantastic.

vik

thanks for that one.....are there any other options?

pimplink · 10-12-2002, 04:06 PM

Well, I can tell you just from MY experience. I have mostly ebony niche email traffic. My conversion ranges from 1:200 to 1:450 depending on what I am promoting.

These bigger guys probably make a ton more money because 1) the list is bigger 2) they send out upwards of 4 mailings a day.
Then again, their costs are larger but probably diluted by the economy of scale they operate on.

I only send out mailings when I have new content.

pimplink · 10-12-2002, 04:07 PM

I use the free email 4 free script given out by x a graphics. I don't have the link--you can do a search for the link. Its a free script. Works just like join4free [double opt in] and allows you to have an affiliate program if you wish.

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome

thanks for that one.....are there any other options?

Cal · 10-12-2002, 04:19 PM

Mutt:

Easiest way to find out is to sign up for a couple and look at their sponsors and the level of 'mailings' you get. If you get 1 mailing daily with sponsors averaging $35 per sale (with their volume they probably get more, but for argument's sake) you can start to figure what their ratios would HAVE to be to make it profitable.

The way I see it, and at one point I had pursued the idea of a 4free, is that for every $1 (for example) you pay a webmaster, you need to convert it at among your sponsors at a rate that makes it profitable. If you have a sponsor paying you $40, you'd need 1:40 conversions to break even.

There are a few factors, most 4free programs, whether they tell you or not, will remove or shave sales from you based on how many people opt-out of their list from your affiliate code within a given period of time. If surfer A opts out within a week, you lose a sale as a result.

The trick is to pack your members area with plenty of sponsors, as far as I can tell, since your goal is to make more than $1 per opt-in surfer. If you team up with enough free/low cost sponsors, can't be that hard to pull off, which is why so many people are doing it. I for one will say that working with a couple of 4free programs as a sponsor THEY use, their conversions are quite good from 'members area' traffic. Not 1:40, but for the volume they were in the 1:100 range if I recall, and we were one sponsor of many.

C.

Krome · 10-12-2002, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pimplink
I use the free email 4 free script given out by x a graphics. I don't have the link--you can do a search for the link. Its a free script. Works just like join4free [double opt in] and allows you to have an affiliate program if you wish.

Cheers

Mutt · 10-12-2002, 04:48 PM

yeah that is the simplest math of it. If you pay webmasters $1 per double optin email subscriber, and the average payout per signup from your sponsors was $35 to break even 1 in every 35 subscribers would have to convert to a signup over the lifetime of that subscriber's stay in your program before he opted out.

BUT that isn't the only revenue stream you have with a double opt-in program. You can now safely do paid mailings for other people, both adult and mainstream.

You can also sell ad space in your members area. Use the traffic to feed other sites you own. Probably some other things i haven't thought about.

The upper limit of payouts seems to be about $1.00 per subscriber. Join 4 Free does pay out another commission if the subscriber joins one of their own GOLD paysites. Which is really a sweet deal.

Like anything else i'm sure there's lots more to know about running this type of program which the people who've done it in big numbers have learned over the years.

I do know they are getting more aggressive. EZGreen now sends out multiple mailings per day, with trick javascript 'invisible' timed pop ups which eventually turn into pop up hell.

Join 4 Free i think just recently went from 1 mailing a day to 2. They don't do any pop-up stuff in their mailings.

Cal · 10-12-2002, 04:52 PM

My email acct was a catch-all at one point for an ex partner who signed up for Join4Free, and I can say they bombed the living hell out of me.

I agree they've gotten more aggressive, everyone has. It's grown much more difficult to get people to buy anything.

If you're looking into a 4free program feel free to hit me up, I had been in talks with a few companies about it but the excitement levels of those around me were relatively low. The money is still there, the trick is coming up with a working model. It's a synthesis of math and marketing, nothing more.

C.

Shane · 10-12-2002, 05:18 PM

krome, grab me on ICQ, i have a proposition for you

Ted · 10-12-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vik

Check out SubscribeMe Pro at Comreach.com
I use it for my in-house mailing lists, it works fantastic.

vik

This is a good script, been using it for over two years, I had some problems installing an upgrade and they went in and did it for me. so the support is excellent.

pimplink · 10-12-2002, 07:44 PM

The math is actually much more expansive that what you described since there are so many points in the user -- "free" site relationship for the "free" site [e.g, join4free, freeezinebucks, etc] to make money.

Sign up process -- exit traffic, confirmation pages, etc

Actual website -- fpas, exit pages

Emails sent out -- paid placements, exit traffic, etc

Given the amount of advertising involved, I am really curious how much they're OPT OUT % is.

Also, you have to multiply the above advertising opportunities with the # of times mailings go out. All in all, the numbers look HUGE.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mutt
yeah that is the simplest math of it. If you pay webmasters $1 per double optin email subscriber, and the average payout per signup from your sponsors was $35 to break even 1 in every 35 subscribers would have to convert to a signup over the lifetime of that subscriber's stay in your program before he opted out.

BUT that isn't the only revenue stream you have with a double opt-in program. You can now safely do paid mailings for other people, both adult and mainstream.

You can also sell ad space in your members area. Use the traffic to feed other sites you own. Probably some other things i haven't thought about.

The upper limit of payouts seems to be about $1.00 per subscriber. Join 4 Free does pay out another commission if the subscriber joins one of their own GOLD paysites. Which is really a sweet deal.

Like anything else i'm sure there's lots more to know about running this type of program which the people who've done it in big numbers have learned over the years.

I do know they are getting more aggressive. EZGreen now sends out multiple mailings per day, with trick javascript 'invisible' timed pop ups which eventually turn into pop up hell.

Join 4 Free i think just recently went from 1 mailing a day to 2. They don't do any pop-up stuff in their mailings.

10-12-2002, 12:52 PM	#1
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	Value Of Double-Optin Email Addresses What do GFY people know about the double optin 'free' programs? Email programs like EZGreen and RiskyMail started it all. Hundreds of copycats followed. WEG/Join4Free innovated and refined the idea some more. BossHawg put his own twist on it and R-n Levi .....uh........ let's say he 'borrowed' Boss Hawg's ezine idea. All these programs are based on buying and then marketing through double optin email addresses. Most of these programs pay between 50 cents and a buck for each double optin address. So my question is what do you think the $$$ value is of a single double optin address? Of course some people can and will do better with these addresses than others but i'm looking for a range. So far most of these programs are still operating so things must be working ok for them. $2.00? $2.50? $3.00? __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-12-2002, 02:20 PM	#4
Backov Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cat Detector Van Posts: 1,600	You forgot the 3rd problem. If you sell it IT'S FUCKING SPAM. Surfer sees site A.. Likes site A.. Naively enters his name in the email box to get site As offers. Site A is run by a piece of shit and said piece of shit sells his list to Site B.. Site B starts sending to surfer. That is the definition of spam. Once you sell it, it's no longer opt in and you deserve what you get. __________________ <embed src="http://banners.spotbrokers.com/button.swf" FlashVars="clickURL=http://banners.spotbrokers.com" quality=high pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="120" height="60"></embed>

10-12-2002, 03:17 PM	#6
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	well in all these 4 Free type programs the surfer is forced to read terms and conditions that includes information that by accepting the '4 Free' offer and filling out the survey that the surfer is allowing his email address to be used by the operators of the 4 free site and any partners they may have now or in the future. if u read some of these T & C for these programs you will see that the surfer is giving them almost carte blanche. so legally they really are covered. they can't be liable for any spamming liability by them or any partner they might rent the list to or whatever. we all know that this goes on in mainstream much worse than adult. I am getting more spam from mainstream companies everyday and it's not all for bogus crap. I'm getting ads from big Fortune 500 and established mainstream companies - usually sent out by some email promotion company. I've never opted in to any of these companies. But i have registered from time to time with free email accounts, software demos etc. So everybody now is selling lists from the big mainstream boys like Yahoo to the little porn guy. all i wanted to know is what do you think these adult companies are taking in on each double optin email on average. If the email costs them $1.00 does that email bring in $2.00 in revenue for a 100% profit? less? more? __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-12-2002, 04:48 PM	#17
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	yeah that is the simplest math of it. If you pay webmasters $1 per double optin email subscriber, and the average payout per signup from your sponsors was $35 to break even 1 in every 35 subscribers would have to convert to a signup over the lifetime of that subscriber's stay in your program before he opted out. BUT that isn't the only revenue stream you have with a double opt-in program. You can now safely do paid mailings for other people, both adult and mainstream. You can also sell ad space in your members area. Use the traffic to feed other sites you own. Probably some other things i haven't thought about. The upper limit of payouts seems to be about $1.00 per subscriber. Join 4 Free does pay out another commission if the subscriber joins one of their own GOLD paysites. Which is really a sweet deal. Like anything else i'm sure there's lots more to know about running this type of program which the people who've done it in big numbers have learned over the years. I do know they are getting more aggressive. EZGreen now sends out multiple mailings per day, with trick javascript 'invisible' timed pop ups which eventually turn into pop up hell. Join 4 Free i think just recently went from 1 mailing a day to 2. They don't do any pop-up stuff in their mailings. __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-12-2002, 05:18 PM	#19
Shane Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 117	krome, grab me on ICQ, i have a proposition for you __________________

10-12-2002, 01:47 PM	#2
pimplink Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Closer than you think Posts: 9,535	I do double opt in email marketing. The problem with straight up selling your list is that it 1) has yet to be tested re which niche it converts best 2) culled for fakes. I know, #2 sounds a bit harsh but incentivized collected lists [ie., you pay people to collect email] will always include a certain % of unproductive email addresses.

10-12-2002, 01:54 PM	#3
playa Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: atlanta, GA Posts: 6,432	ya i be betting that lot of those emails filled with cheating emails

10-12-2002, 03:06 PM	#5
Krome Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: London - UK Posts: 2,851	I have a 20,000 expired members list and have never mailed out to it and have never sold it...they have all joined a previus site of mine which is in the same niche as my new one. What type of sign up ratios would I get using it if I mailed out with my new site?

10-12-2002, 03:23 PM	#7
funkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: shell beach Posts: 7,938	Krome, you´ll be looking at 1-2 signups per mailing.

10-12-2002, 03:51 PM	#10
Krome Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: London - UK Posts: 2,851	How do I send the list out? You are talking to the most retarded person on the face of the planet when it comes to bulk emails...

10-12-2002, 04:06 PM	#13
pimplink Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Closer than you think Posts: 9,535	Well, I can tell you just from MY experience. I have mostly ebony niche email traffic. My conversion ranges from 1:200 to 1:450 depending on what I am promoting. These bigger guys probably make a ton more money because 1) the list is bigger 2) they send out upwards of 4 mailings a day. Then again, their costs are larger but probably diluted by the economy of scale they operate on. I only send out mailings when I have new content.

10-12-2002, 04:19 PM	#15
Cal Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 72	Mutt: Easiest way to find out is to sign up for a couple and look at their sponsors and the level of 'mailings' you get. If you get 1 mailing daily with sponsors averaging $35 per sale (with their volume they probably get more, but for argument's sake) you can start to figure what their ratios would HAVE to be to make it profitable. The way I see it, and at one point I had pursued the idea of a 4free, is that for every $1 (for example) you pay a webmaster, you need to convert it at among your sponsors at a rate that makes it profitable. If you have a sponsor paying you $40, you'd need 1:40 conversions to break even. There are a few factors, most 4free programs, whether they tell you or not, will remove or shave sales from you based on how many people opt-out of their list from your affiliate code within a given period of time. If surfer A opts out within a week, you lose a sale as a result. The trick is to pack your members area with plenty of sponsors, as far as I can tell, since your goal is to make more than $1 per opt-in surfer. If you team up with enough free/low cost sponsors, can't be that hard to pull off, which is why so many people are doing it. I for one will say that working with a couple of 4free programs as a sponsor THEY use, their conversions are quite good from 'members area' traffic. Not 1:40, but for the volume they were in the 1:100 range if I recall, and we were one sponsor of many. C.

10-12-2002, 04:52 PM	#18
Cal Registered User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 72	My email acct was a catch-all at one point for an ex partner who signed up for Join4Free, and I can say they bombed the living hell out of me. I agree they've gotten more aggressive, everyone has. It's grown much more difficult to get people to buy anything. If you're looking into a 4free program feel free to hit me up, I had been in talks with a few companies about it but the excitement levels of those around me were relatively low. The money is still there, the trick is coming up with a working model. It's a synthesis of math and marketing, nothing more. C.