IPSP VS. Cross Border - Regulations - GoFuckYourself.com

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 10:21 AM

Some billing companies have been encouraging webmasters to jump ship to their offshore entities and all will be fine. This is not the case and webmasters must be educated on the reprecussions of these actions.

There are many regulations in Visas manuals including Cross Border issues. A european IPSP cannot do processing for a US Company Sponsored Merchant. So, for instance, if you are a company located in the US and doing business with Websitebilling.com UK, although you would not be subject to the new IPSP registration program, you would be subject to stiff penalties for illegal cross border activity.

Sponsored merchants must be domiciled in the region of the IPSP
or face fines for breaking Cross Border regulations.

We strongly urge all webmasters to speak to their billers and get clarification on these two very important issues to make sure compliance is met without undue risk. Once a sponsored merchant is placed on the TMF it may never do business with an IPSP or gain a merchant account for processing Visa.

We are awaiting clarification from Visa on some unclear issues and will pass them on as we get them.

Candyman69 · 10-08-2002, 10:29 AM

how about owning an offshore merchant when ur say located in canada
not with an ipsp but ur own merchant

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Candyman69
how about owning an offshore merchant when ur say located in canada
not with an ipsp but ur own merchant

There are several Visa regions. I would phone your acquirer and let them know your concern and ask if this cross border rule would apply to you. Let them know where you are domiciled and if its ok... if not, you can choose a new merchant bank relationship in the region you are domiciled or adversely you can domicile in the region of your merchant bank.

Sleepy · 10-08-2002, 10:44 AM

Isn't it true the a merchant can only accept funds in the currency of the country they hold their merchant account in ?

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sleepy
Isn't it true the a merchant can only accept funds in the currency of the country they hold their merchant account in ?

As far as we know you must deposit into a bank account in the region your merchant bank is located, not sure about the same currency. So if you use a EU merchant in France you could deposit in Italy but not Canada. This is how we have interpreted...again not quite sure about currency.

markusborger · 10-08-2002, 11:05 AM

Websitebilling.com???? a UK Billing....

I see....they may be a frontend of the 3 STOOGES: IBILL, CCBILL & PAYPAL

shut-up your big mouth! you are pulling out too much shit out of it!

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by markusborger
Websitebilling.com???? a UK Billing....

I see....they may be a frontend of the 3 STOOGES: IBILL, CCBILL & PAYPAL

shut-up your big mouth! you are pulling out too much shit out of it!

LOL your funny...

Zentropy · 10-08-2002, 11:20 AM

Are these cross border regulations new? Why has this not been an issue in the past with people who happen to be cross border infringers for no other reason than a preference for a particular IPSP? For example it is extremely common practice to have a "big 3" main IPSP and a foriegn IPSP as your secondary cc option. What you are saying is that anyone who is doing that now for whatever reason must cancel his secondary processor.

Whether this is a new regulation or an existing one, I do not understand how we are supposed to stay clear of breaking the rules when we are only fed little scraps of information occasionally, how many other rules am I breaking right now simply because I do not know the rules exist?

garv · 10-08-2002, 11:29 AM

also does that mean cause I'm in Australia and using CCBill over the past 3 years that I've been breaking the law?

As far as I understood it, you were allowed to use where ever you wanted as long as you payed tax in the country that your company was.

regards
garv

Shoplifter · 10-08-2002, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maximus

Once a sponsored merchant is placed on the TMF it may never do business with an IPSP or gain a merchant account for processing Visa.

This bit about the TMF / Match blacklist is at best a remote possibility.

If you actually were TMF'd it would be by the acquiring bank. And if they did list you due to the fact your processor mislead you they are opening themselves up for a liability lawsuit. It's very hard to find a circumstance short of criminal fraud where a 3rd party webmaster client would be blacklisted. Certainly they would not because Globill or whomever was wrong in their interpretation of Visa's regulations. Globill would bear the liability, not the webmaster.

There are a few lawyers who deal with TMF issues exclusively. It might be interesting to get an opinion on the new Visa regs from one of them.

I think it is entirely possible that offshore companies will be able to do as they are saying even if the USA regs forbid it. There is the letter of the law and the practical interpretation of it, and they may not be the same.

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zentropy
Are these cross border regulations new? Why has this not been an issue in the past with people who happen to be cross border infringers for no other reason than a preference for a particular IPSP?

This has never been to much of a problem simply because Visa has not known who they were doing business with. They only new one merchant WSB, not its submerchants. That is part of the reason for the new regulations and all sponsored merchants being required to register. Visa will now be able to know who they are doing business with.

Our acquirer overseas, although not subject to the New Registration program, has informed us that VisaEU wants a list of all clients so they can make sure there is no cross border conflicts. All IPSPs will be required to do so now, its just a matter of time.

Visa has 6 regions

USA - European Union - Asia Pacific - Latin America and Carribean - Central Europe Middle East and Africa - Canada

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by garv
also does that mean cause I'm in Australia and using CCBill over the past 3 years that I've been breaking the law?

As far as I understood it, you were allowed to use where ever you wanted as long as you payed tax in the country that your company was.

regards
garv

I wouldnt say breaking the law so much as not abiding by the Visa Rules... What is in the past is done... its from here forward that we need to proceed with caution.

Before, the problem was you showed up nowhere in CCbills portfolio. You were just a fish in the sea.. Now your a fish in the bowl.

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shoplifter

This bit about the TMF / Match blacklist is at best a remote possibility.

I think it is entirely possible that offshore companies will be able to do as they are saying even if the USA regs forbid it. There is the letter of the law and the practical interpretation of it, and they may not be the same.

An acquirer must query the Terminated Merchant File for each potential High-Risk Sponsored Merchant. Additionally, an acquirer must ensure that all its High-Risk IPSP's are notified of Merchants that have been disqualified from the Visa system and that Visa processing priviledges must not be extended to them.

Offshore IPSP's may not be subject to the new registration program, but they will have to open thier portfolios for the cross border implications.

farbie · 10-08-2002, 01:55 PM

I understood this differently. I thought I had to be in the same area as the acquiring bank, not the ipsp. So I could deal with any ipsp as long as they had an acquiring bank in my area. Is this not true?

farbie

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 02:01 PM

so do you only have to be in the same Visa region as the merchant bank? or do you need to be in the same country?

farbie · 10-08-2002, 02:10 PM

I thought as long as the processor you used has an acquiring bank in the same Visa region as you are then you were ok.

farbie

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 02:11 PM

Hey Maximus!

do you only have to be in the same Visa region as the merchant bank? or do you need to be in the same country?

The Machine · 10-08-2002, 02:16 PM

region would be my guess.

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Machine
region would be my guess.

I want answers, not guesses.

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by farbie
I understood this differently. I thought I had to be in the same area as the acquiring bank, not the ipsp. So I could deal with any ipsp as long as they had an acquiring bank in my area. Is this not true?

farbie

This is true, but it goes the same for the ipsp. IPSP's are not allowed to do business with acquirers outside its region of business. So, yes it boils down to acquirer only if you have your own merchant account. The Acuirer, IPSP and Sponsored Merchant must all be in the same region (not country) if you want to go thru a third party.

We are compiling a list of visa regions and countries within the regions in order to help. Look for it here shortly.

The Machine · 10-08-2002, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear

I want answers, not guesses.

hehe - i can only give you a guess here, but my guesses are usually pretty good.

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brown Bear
Hey Maximus!

do you only have to be in the same Visa region as the merchant bank? or do you need to be in the same country?

Region..

farbie · 10-08-2002, 03:33 PM

OK, so according to that, I can do business with a 3rd party processor located anywhere, as long as they have an acquiring bank in my Visa region?

Not trying to be dense, just to understand clearly.

farbie

Brown Bear · 10-08-2002, 04:57 PM

Here are the 6 Visa regions:

Asia-Pacific
Canada
Central & Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa (CEMEA)
European Union
Latin America & Caribbean
United States

Maximus · 10-08-2002, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by farbie
OK, so according to that, I can do business with a 3rd party processor located anywhere, as long as they have an acquiring bank in my Visa region?

Not trying to be dense, just to understand clearly.

farbie

Correct. If your company is located in the Brithish Virgin Islands then you need to make sure your IPSP and Acquirer are both located in the Latin American region. IF your favorite processor only has a presence in the EU, you may also decide to domicile in that processors region.

We are working to get all the countries within each region and post them here.

farbie · 10-08-2002, 06:23 PM

That answers my question. Thanks Maximus.

farbie

PornBroker · 10-08-2002, 07:13 PM

Email from CCbill today

"1) The company has to based in the US. So you would need to establish an LLC here in the US. Your current company in the Turks & Caicos Islands would not comply. If you are not a US based company, the rebills using Visa will be turned off as well. Please be aware of that. We can wire funds to you where ever you want.

2) We are not registered in any region outside the US at this time. More to come on that if we will be at a later point in time.

3) If you have an established US corporation, then you would need to register with Visa and pay the $750 registration fee."

ozzymandius · 10-08-2002, 08:16 PM

Just sign up with glo-bill, dutchbill, 2000charge or verotel.

I don't buy into what the 3 stooges or their friends are saying.

Maximus · 10-09-2002, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PornBroker
Email from CCbill today

2) We are not registered in any region outside the US at this time. More to come on that if we will be at a later point in time.

This is not good. They will only be able to do business with established US clients

10-08-2002, 10:21 AM	#1
Maximus Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 81	IPSP VS. Cross Border - Regulations Some billing companies have been encouraging webmasters to jump ship to their offshore entities and all will be fine. This is not the case and webmasters must be educated on the reprecussions of these actions. There are many regulations in Visas manuals including Cross Border issues. A european IPSP cannot do processing for a US Company Sponsored Merchant. So, for instance, if you are a company located in the US and doing business with Websitebilling.com UK, although you would not be subject to the new IPSP registration program, you would be subject to stiff penalties for illegal cross border activity. Sponsored merchants must be domiciled in the region of the IPSP or face fines for breaking Cross Border regulations. We strongly urge all webmasters to speak to their billers and get clarification on these two very important issues to make sure compliance is met without undue risk. Once a sponsored merchant is placed on the TMF it may never do business with an IPSP or gain a merchant account for processing Visa. We are awaiting clarification from Visa on some unclear issues and will pass them on as we get them. __________________ Maximus Websitebilling Last edited by Maximus; 10-08-2002 at 10:54 AM..

10-08-2002, 10:29 AM	#2
Candyman69 Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 764	how about owning an offshore merchant when ur say located in canada not with an ipsp but ur own merchant __________________ domain buyer

10-08-2002, 02:01 PM	#15
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	so do you only have to be in the same Visa region as the merchant bank? or do you need to be in the same country? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-08-2002, 02:11 PM	#17
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Hey Maximus! do you only have to be in the same Visa region as the merchant bank? or do you need to be in the same country? __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-08-2002, 04:57 PM	#24
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Here are the 6 Visa regions: Asia-Pacific Canada Central & Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa (CEMEA) European Union Latin America & Caribbean United States __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-08-2002, 10:44 AM	#4
Sleepy Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Porn Peddler Posts: 679	Isn't it true the a merchant can only accept funds in the currency of the country they hold their merchant account in ?

10-08-2002, 11:05 AM	#6
markusborger So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 145	Websitebilling.com???? a UK Billing.... I see....they may be a frontend of the 3 STOOGES: IBILL, CCBILL & PAYPAL shut-up your big mouth! you are pulling out too much shit out of it!

10-08-2002, 11:20 AM	#8
Zentropy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Snottsdale Posts: 87	Are these cross border regulations new? Why has this not been an issue in the past with people who happen to be cross border infringers for no other reason than a preference for a particular IPSP? For example it is extremely common practice to have a "big 3" main IPSP and a foriegn IPSP as your secondary cc option. What you are saying is that anyone who is doing that now for whatever reason must cancel his secondary processor. Whether this is a new regulation or an existing one, I do not understand how we are supposed to stay clear of breaking the rules when we are only fed little scraps of information occasionally, how many other rules am I breaking right now simply because I do not know the rules exist?

10-08-2002, 11:29 AM	#9
garv Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 87	also does that mean cause I'm in Australia and using CCBill over the past 3 years that I've been breaking the law? As far as I understood it, you were allowed to use where ever you wanted as long as you payed tax in the country that your company was. regards garv

10-08-2002, 01:55 PM	#14
farbie Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 131	I understood this differently. I thought I had to be in the same area as the acquiring bank, not the ipsp. So I could deal with any ipsp as long as they had an acquiring bank in my area. Is this not true? farbie

10-08-2002, 02:10 PM	#16
farbie Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 131	I thought as long as the processor you used has an acquiring bank in the same Visa region as you are then you were ok. farbie

10-08-2002, 02:16 PM	#18
The Machine Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 859	region would be my guess.

10-08-2002, 03:33 PM	#23
farbie Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 131	OK, so according to that, I can do business with a 3rd party processor located anywhere, as long as they have an acquiring bank in my Visa region? Not trying to be dense, just to understand clearly. farbie

10-08-2002, 06:23 PM	#26
farbie Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 131	That answers my question. Thanks Maximus. farbie

10-08-2002, 07:13 PM	#27
PornBroker Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 686	Email from CCbill today "1) The company has to based in the US. So you would need to establish an LLC here in the US. Your current company in the Turks & Caicos Islands would not comply. If you are not a US based company, the rebills using Visa will be turned off as well. Please be aware of that. We can wire funds to you where ever you want. 2) We are not registered in any region outside the US at this time. More to come on that if we will be at a later point in time. 3) If you have an established US corporation, then you would need to register with Visa and pay the $750 registration fee." __________________ please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste...I've been around for a long long year stolen many man's soul and faith...I was around when jesus christ had his moment of doubt and pain...made damn sure that pilate washed his hands and sealed his fate...pleased to meet you hope you guess my name...but's what's puzzling you is the nature of my game...

10-08-2002, 08:16 PM	#28
ozzymandius Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 111	Just sign up with glo-bill, dutchbill, 2000charge or verotel. I don't buy into what the 3 stooges or their friends are saying.