A FYI she started the site not me. No logic just attack me personally. Have you ever created anything with your time and money to see it just given away?
You cant see this model is training a whole bunch of people not pay for porn again? How is that a longterm business move? I'm talking to you now as a fellow businessman name calling not necessary.

the problem with "adapt or die" in the context of these conversations usually means "i need a poor explanation to rationalize theft and copy what others are doing while the traffic is there to be had since everyone is jumping on the bandwagon"


otherwise... what is there to adapt to? are paysites going away? photos of naked girls? etc etc. the truth is that tube sites are just one more business model of many that is getting attention because traffic is flocking to 1hr videos which are being given away for free. the funniest thing about it is they few are actually making any money at it.

the traffic is going where "free" and "full length video" is... they are doing that because its being made available to them, largely at the expense of those who produce content.

saying "i'm going to start a legal tube site" is like saying "i'm going to start a legal P2P network" or "i'm going to start a legal bit torrent site" - surfers ultimately flow to the point of best content (longest videos, biggest selection, best quality, best selection etc).

Do you really thing think governments are going to allow a free porn model paid with ads to exist for how long? This is porn not mainstream tv.Its not a hot model once again because you take away the illegal stuff and the site fades away.

No, again you've got it all backwards.

This model is not training a whole bunch of people not to pay for porn again. The model, rather, emerged as a result of the existing demand. This is the Youtube generation. YOU are the person of the year. You can fight it all you want, but it's the future.

More and more "content" is being given away in every kind of market. From free online video games that sell advertising within, to music and movies and porn.

When it comes to the point that people can effectively monetize this kind of traffic, there won't be so much theft. When thousands of tube sites are looking to license content and fewer paysites are, who do you think the content producers are going to sell to?

Witness television if you will. It costs more and more to advertise each year, and the delivery to targeted audience is less and less each year. As more and more people migrate to online and streaming entertainment, so too will the advertising dollars.

As for making something and having it stolen, no that has not so much been a problem for me yet. On this point we don't disagree though. Theft is wrong, and I don't advocate nor support anyone stealing yours or anyone elses content. This however is a symptom that always emerges. At first movie gallery, tgp, mgp, etc. webmasters were stealing content too. Now paysites give it to them free for promotion. This is the sort of evolution I mean. :2 cents:

Goverments take away free porn? Are you serious? Look, I know you're American so you think differently on this than many of us, so I'll cut you some slack. Many goverments in this day and age have backed away from the whole control the population model of days gone by. I don't think you'll see the Dutch, Canadian or any number of liberal countries outlawing it anytime soon.

At the end of the day you make as many laws as you want in the United States trying to control the rest of the World but all you'll really do is alienate yourself from it. :2 cents:

i'm sure Penthouse legal dept was happy to see a representative of their company stand up and say for the record "well... we support content theft and criminal copyright infringement and the facilitation of copyright infringement because people steal from us too... so what's the big deal"

The business model is in giving the content to the end user for free in exchange for the rights to advertise to them, as opposed to making the customer pay for the content itself. If the Tube sites pays the content producers a share of their advertising revenue then everyone wins. People are still paying for porn, just not in the conventional means paysites promote. You can still be payed for the content you produce, you just need the Tube sites to start sharing fairly with the producers. The NBC analogy is a great one really.

The Andrew guy is an idiot to publicly attack someone like that and to blame it all on AFF.

Sean is right that we can't just ignore tube sites and we do need to evolve as times change. Sean just took it very personal and got upset, he should have seen it would get ugly and take a different approach.

AFF is doing nothing illegal, tube sites are legal as long as they follow DMCA. It's not AFF's job to police their content. If they are working with tube sites that don't follow the rules, then yeah give them some pressure to stop advertising with them, but don't attack ONE GUY in front of 500 people because you disagree.

:2 cents::2 cents:

I can see some of your points, I'm not closed minded. This is porn,something that was sold under counters, in stores with blackened windows. Its not a mainstream TV show, I don't think governments will let this model live long. Who knows time will tell.

It's awesome. When Airek was involved and it was all hush hush behind closed doors, there was whispers of concern in the background noise. Now that the pirate crews see what they're up against, they're busting a gut laughing. :2 cents:

Isnt 60 percent of all porn bought in the US? If so if they choose to filter it all out, that would hurt the bottom line dont you think? Germany has tough laws, russia is starting antiporn laws. Porn out in the open and even a politican can see easily I dont think they will be so liberal for long. I hope im wrong and your right.

Well, sure, but thanks in part to the efforts of the Adult industry, the stigma is falling away. Maybe more so in Europe than in North America yet, but things will probably continue down this path.

You probably don't want to write "pornographer" as your occupation on the application form for your child's PTA forms yet though. :winkwink:

ROFL at the other dating guy with no skin in the game. you should be ashamed of yourselves for selling people the fake hope that they can "find someone to have sex with in "your city here" and all that other shit anyhow. i know one thing, when i go to rip off report and search for scams, dating comes up first. its no surprise that you don't have a problem with stolen content, you rip off the surfer too. your opinion here is unwanted. god you guys are pathetic.

That old dude should have opened with this monologue instead:

"We're entering a new era indeed. A time when crusty old patent lawyers, well passed their prime and way out of their depth can't justify huge billing hours anymore. Even though I'm so awesome I know about all technology upcoming for the next 15 years, I just can't seem to pay for my youngest son's college as easily as I could a few years back.

In closing, the sky is falling, it's going to hurt like hell but don't worry because I'll be selling umbrellas from my van after this panel. Thank you and goodnight.".

You may use that with my permission next time.

This is a total non sense because noone will add their video to be with other 25 000 full length videos for free for a share of the revenue.

Anyone who ever seen how the traffic from these sites converts for them can get you an imagination of how can this traffic convert for the advertisers.

Plus you will also see why these sites limit the amount of video views per IP / day.

Imagine there would be only one super multi site in the world with all the video ever produced for free, what will happen?

The product will not exist anymore, the brands will not exist anymore, the video business will not exist anymore, because there will be noone paying you for your product, you will no more be able to market your thing and your current revenue streams will not make sense anymore, and that with all the distribution outlets, as it already happens.

In short - you will make cents but you will loose millions of dollars.

Im back from going out to breakfast. I was only gone for 2 hours and Im back and already I have 8 icqs from people who have read this thread wanting to do biz with me and tube sites.

You really think the biz is not trying to evolve into what has already begun? You really think everyone wants to see the end of tube sites?

Think again. Ive seen nothing but the opposite.

Sean is right. If it aint him then it will be someone else. I got 8 of em lined up right now.

Its just that easy.

It's not about the STIGMA but about the MOTIVATION of the consumer.

Why don't porn channels sell advert? and if then it's extremely cheap?

Because it's an impulsive thing, you will not watch porn all night long because you have nothing to do. Where will you put the advert if an average viewer spends there 10 - 15 mins a day?

Apart from the undisputable fact that there will be very few companies willing to associate their products with porn anytime soon, imagine you will have horny males watching a vivid video, where do you want to put the advert?

If you want to sell them a brand new Silverado, even if the company agreed to have their advert on a porn channel, where will you put the advert?

Will you put it right before the cumshot so you get the biggest audience and everyone will hold their dicks and scream FUCK! ?

Porn always worked this way:

TEASE and get them to PAY

They need it, so there will always be a demand, you don't have to worry that guys would ever stopped to get a boner, although the rising metrosexuality and gayness may soon change the overall popularity of the female aspect.

But the whole golden bottom of the business - the steady demand is about to be ruined, that with this very unresponsible and totally cannibalizing approach.

Are you sure? Anyone second this? Looks quite similar to me..

http://i31.tinypic.com/11lhc76.jpg
http://i30.tinypic.com/ao2l9u.jpg



wow big man .. lucky you :winkwink:

PS. Is she member of this board? :upsidedow

http://www.royswriting.com/pooldj.jpg

http://www.royswriting.com/evasive.jpg

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

ROFL what a fucking idiot.

He looked high on cocaine.

There is a huge difference with legit tubes and the ones filled with stolen content. If you worked a deal where it was all legit good for you. Not one bad word would be spoken towards you. But to continue to justify AFF and their scumbag ways is a disservice to you. I'm sure they give you a lot of money from what you earn. But to kiss ass and lose your pride for a paycheck is sad. If you truly believe they are in the right you're no better than them and that's just sad.:2 cents:

I don't believe I have seen her post, no.

um see you missed a the part in video 4 i believe were Sean actually shouted out lets talk about advertising on tube sites. He opened the door and got his ass handed to him cause he was trying to be witty. Then he went after DJ dude and Dj dude kindly put him in his place.

Also refresh my memory but didn't you go on this whole spyware crusade making shirts and everything else when the zango issue came up? Even thu zango is completely legal. Also Aff was popping ads over amateurmatch for how long? They were taking money from you and your affiliates and yet you were still taking the time to post with them in pictures go figure.

Sean should of got flamed for opening his mouth like he did. He even went as far to say " our content is on the tube site too" Prior to the penthouse buy out which was what 2 months ago? What content of there was all over tubes sites? I didn't know they make there own content . Bottom line is sponsors who allow there sites to be advertised on tube sites with stolen content are funding piracy :2 cents:

yeah I didnt watch part 4 and I don't really care to. Zango was deceptive/illegal as the FTC proved when they fined them.

I'm sure cams.com gets their content stolen all the time, as we do with webcamclub.com. But yeah, that doesn't necessarily make anything right.

No see you are wrong Zango is not illegal. What zango got fined for was webmaster installing it on surfers computers with out the surfers consent. The whole zango business model is completely legal.

Andrew didnt flame him out of the blue, he opened the door and he started with me...I actually asked him if he really wanted to have the conversation right then and there that was cut out and Andrew asked him a very valid question and made extremely valid points for which I commend him.

ALSO - read up on contributory infringement...in essence if you know they have a lot of stolen material and you...well...help them like advertise, you too can be held liable.

http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca5...QuestionID=268

AFF Sean for President!!! :)

Boneprone tell it like it is man... I am going to bump this thread in 2 years and lets see how many hypocrites posted in here bitching about AFF and likes buying all the advertising up on the tube sites.

The reality is that the large tube sites are ALL going legit... Believe it or not within 6 months i would say 90% of the largest tube sites will all have worked out deals with content companies and large affiliate programs to license their content in exchange for traffic. I already know a couple that are in the midst of it right now.

DH

Didn't you get cry when someone called our wife a bad name?
Eh... that's not the point... The point is, when will you start selling "tube traffic"? Really, if you can't convert any other type of traffic on your own so you pawn it off on others willing to purchase it, when does the "tube" niche start?

I'm still pretty amazed you're able to filter and sell traffic but you can't convert it internally... That's bad ass. Props to you for that.

We sell tube traffic right now, been selling it for months :)

We convert a ton of our own traffic actually, however we don't have time to convert it all. Plus we make awesome money selling it to heavy hitters like AFF who can make more than we can.

DH

Simply Owned.

That is all.

I bet if someone used your sweat and blood without your permission, I could hear your crying all the way here in GA.

I watched the whole thing the other night and put alot of thought about whats been going on.

It was kinda heart breaking to see guys on that panel some that I have known for years that have been fighting thieves for the better part of lives.

Content production and creation is no easy task and for content to be blatantly stolen like is these days is rape.

Only 1 valid thing shawn said...

"Where is the traffic?"
"Where is the traffic these days! Its at Tube sites."

Thats about all that needed to be said because thats the truth. The Traffic is at Tube sites these days hands down and they are also the #1 violator of content copyrights at this moment.

I totally see your point. But what's the output?

Should producers stop to produce new content, should they stop cause it will never have value again and they will never be able to market their product on their own?

The whole affiliate model doesn't make sense if all the places (sites) attracting traffic will have tons of other free porn, cause noone - not the producer nor the affiliate will make a buck.

According to my experience, your conversion rate from the same amount of traffic drops at half, if you put in a 90 sec. trailer, but that's still ok because it's only your shit in there and people either pay for your stuff or leave.

Now imagine it's another 5000 x 90 sec. clips from different producers competing with you at the same site - another massive drop of conversion unless you want to pay for premium spots.

Should you, as a content producer start with tube sites, trying to market your own stuff for free and flood the market with so much free porn the guys will be forced to stop to jerk off cause it won't be in anymore ?

This all only makes sense for the site owners and traffic brokers. The whole business model where porn, as something that is taboo, that has value and where you can find your audience, tease and sell will be ruined.

The stronger dog always fucks the most but this is a very unique situation, where a couple of big dogs can ridiculously gang bang the whole industry to make a couple of bucks more.

I beg to differ
There are retards in this biz that you cannot even fathom, holding positions they should not have. A lot of them even post here

90% of them came in this business only two or three years ago and have no comprehension of how this business works or who people are.

Whether they are right or wrong, I can assure you that Lars and Sean are no retards when it comes to this business

Will76 hit me up on icq and said " that it total BULLSHIT. I didn't break any rules and I told eric as much on icq but he wont reply back to me. Yes, Eric asked me to drop it and I did. John made another post about it making up lies about me, so I replied to John, why is John not banned then? I don't make any money on that fucking site on posting on it, i don't spam my shit like John, and in the past I have been a top advertiser on 2 different occasions. I have never been given a "stick" or fucked anyone or anything. I pissed off John and John keeps it going and I reply to him and i get banned. total bullshit. Eric might as well make it a permanent one because unless I get an apology I will take my posts and business to another site."

The problem is everyone forgets they werent in this business they are in the personal's business which is why they did give a flying fuck who they hurt by buying all those ads on illegal tubes. Of course they have a different opinion they dont produce content.

AMEN to that. They are both VERY VERY smart!

It doesn't suprise me you stand up for your bro's!

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Think back to early YNot, Rick, Ron, Serge, RB and JoeBonix days ? admittedly, my partner and I saw an opportunity to create membership sites with a fuck-load of content that we stole from newsgroups. We organized the stolen content beautifully, threw it up behind password protected areas and hooked up with DMR to process our sites.

At this point "stolen content" wasn't even a subject matter; back then, it was simply a free-for-all (*hint*nudge*hint* ? like tube sites today). After about a year of kick ass profits from our well organized stolen content we decided to cover our asses, got rid of all of the 'free' content we took and searched hard for company's that sold legal net content - we bought up all available copyright content that we could get our hands on.

Most of the alumni of our industry started their membership sites in this way. The point is, we saw an opportunity and we took it; and then we self-regulated (along with the rest of the industry).

In that same vein, I completely agree with you DrinkingHARDEST, "large tube sites are ALL going legit." Looking at the big picture, it's smart business (to be where the traffic is) and it's only a matter of time before the industry evolves to legit tube sites, the same way the industry has always grown, improved and evolved. :2 cents: