I can't speak for Penthouse, but what Sean was saying was the EXACT shit that LARS was spewing about spyware 2 years ago. I would have to think that Andrew is on the same wave length as well. Someone over there at AFF/Cams is programming these morons to think this way. Its so obvious since they say the exact same excuses for everything, I would bet it's Andrew, seems the most logical. So I doubt he will get fired, they probably air high-5'ed each other when they saw the video and thought he did a good job, where as the rest of us thought he looked like an idiot.

Chances are Penthouse knew what they were buying with AFF/Cams and Penthouse decided to not only keep Andrew,Lars, Sean, etc... on after they bought AFF/Cams but they put them in charge of Penthouse's online properties as well. So, I would think there is no chance in hell that he will be fired, I can't see how Penthouse would have expected anything different than what happened.

Here is something really funny... Sean says " we tried to stop and we have pulled adds on torrent and tube sites but our competition just buys them...." Sean, you work for a Cams, Dating, and membership site... Everyone is your competition. Did you expect the illegal site to close down just because you pulled your ads? You can't be that stupid. There is always going to be shitty people that will do business with these companies. If AFF/CAMS/Penthouse took the high road and then asked all of their affiliates (and everyone else) to not do business with the " competition" who was buying these spots not only would they help clean things up and be heroes, they would make more money in the long run.... it all comes down to greed and how much can i make *tomorrow* mentality. :2 cents:

Yep, that was Greg Piccionelli - he's an icon attorney in our industry and has been involved in online adult for as long as I can remember. Greg's top notch - and for those that go as far back as the ice-ages of adult net, I especially enjoyed his "Ron Levi DMR" analogy.

It may not be popular in this thread - and although I do not completely agree with AFF's business practices - I'm stepping up to say that I do personally like both Sean and Lars.

And Airek, Well Done - you were very well spoken!!

"Your Not My Bro" :thumbsup

its retards like that fucktard that make this "business" a joke

Yep, I always thought she should be a bigger star in the biz.

Andrew Stoddard kept on asking the same question from which Shawn had no defense. There is no defense for buying ad spots on torrent / tube sites.

BTW for anyone wondering what the URL is of PAK Group Inc.
http://thepakgroup.com/index.html (from what I've found)

Damn I wish I was there.

Why isnt anyone standing up for Sean? He is right. This is where internet is going.

Adapt and evolve people.

Or be left behind on the sidelines crying.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I watched all the videos, and couldn't help but think the guys out of the United States, with the large torrents and tube sites are probably laughing and rubbing their hands together thinking to themselves "That's what they're throwing at us?".

From the doom and gloom lawyer who boldly states that "Everyone who streams video needs to be concerned with 2257.", as if he's never heard of the rest of the World, all the way to Andrew who looked about ready to cry. I know they sure put the fear of, umm well nothing, in to me!

I need a torrent site.

I need a tube site.

My programers who ive been with for many years were working on this but have dropped the ball. Anyone else out there want to be part of the family and work for me on this niche?

hit me up on icq. 66883099 with your offer.


Before anyone bashes me, I have an idea and way to make it 100% legal working with my contacts in the biz.

There has been many good, and I mean no trolling / no emotions / discussions conceived here about this already, and I guess all that could have been said was more or less said already.

Kind of tough to adapt to a business model where someone is offering your product for free.

It's this unique online and digital nature of the business that enables that, not only to earn money fast but also to scam fastly.

You get your car stolen you can't drive, you get your house robbed off you're fucked, someone steals your wallet you're gonna get into trouble.

Someone is gonna steal your content to sell there cams and dating - what you hear is to adapt or die and if they wouldn't support the thieves someone else would.

I watched the whole thing twice now.

Am I the only one who doest think Sean came off as an idiot?

More than likely, yes.

Sean made some good points, unfortunately none of them was really a defense.

The argument that if I stop selling crack on the corner someone else will just start doing it would never protect me from the police, and in the same fashion it doesn't hold water here.

What Sean SHOULD have just said is "Listen, we basically ran the numbers and we think that no matter how many of you little fries band together, you're never going to really be a threat to us. So sue, cry, whine, bitch, whatever we just don't care. Bbling bling, money aint a thing!"

Adapting and evolving is what both sides of the debate want. Evolving and adapting does not mean learn how to steal better. It means evolving into doing this via a legal means.

When I was at Internext I talked to DOZENS of program owners telling them I was thinking of doing an illegal tube site. There wasnt one program that turned me down in working with me. NOT ONE....... I shit you not....

After coming back from internext with shitloads of contacts willing to deal with me and my tube site Ive come up enough contacts to start something that is legal and supported by the content owners. Unlike most tube site owners I have a history with program owners and an ablity to work with them in this process.

This is my version of adapting and evolving..

The program owners who are not willing to work with tube sites are the ones left behind.

Again I talked to dozens of program owners. Every one of them were willing to work with me. The Taboo word of "Tube Site" was a welcome word when I was pitching it. Not one person was even half as angry as the people on this thread.

Where are those people now?

Sounds like we're working on similar projects. Maybe we should talk. :)

I liked hearing the attorney say, "tranny movies".

I bet he's a freak. I'd love to snoop around on his hard drive.

You people are the real fucking idiots.

The exact same haters I see on panels and talking out against AFF on boards, shows and panels are the same people who kiss my ass at shows wanting biz from me..

You people didnt seem too angry when you heard I was starting a tube site. In fact everyone I talked to wanted in.

They wanted some of that AFF market share.

wait you said we all need to "adapt " or stand on the sidelines and cry.

Why are you going to make something that is 100% legal, will that mean there is no stolen content on your tube site? That is your solution to adapting?

How do you adapt and compete with stolen content. The problem is stolen content and trying to compete with sites that offer full video clips. Making a site with legal content is helping the people with their stolen content all over the net... how ? The same people you keep telling to adapt, how should they adapt to the new internet where everything is stolen and distributed for free.

Do you have the programing resources?? That is my only drawback. My programers are on a break and I want in now and have been waiting way too long.

I have the contacts of people willing to work with us $$$. They are lining up.

Figure it out.

Stop crying for once and Try to evovle a bit....

Why would anyone be angry you are starting a tube site ?

i guess someone needs to explain the difference between a "legal" tube site and an "illegal" tube site.

I don't think anyone has a problem with you or anyone else starting a tube site, it's stolen content and creating a site that only exists because it is full of stolen content that is the problem.
You do understand the difference right, because if you did there was no reason for you to make that post.

4 steps ahead of you buddy, just trying to see if you had it figured out yet.

Yes I have programers. Lots.

I actually have something up and running minus web design now. It started it's life as a common out of the box tube site script we started patching for security. At the end of the day it's about 60% new code, shrug who knew. The plan is to start with this and spec out and design a custom solution longer term.

Well yes and no. There's two sides to this tube argument, and we're mostly only talking about one here.

1) Stolen content. This is obviously a problem that needs to be solved. It's not something that evolution is going to solve either.

2) Tube site model. There's a large cross section of cry babies who will continue to scream that tube sites, giving away large(r) sized clips, licensed or not are killing their business. They may be right. THIS is where there is room to adapt though.

:2 cents:

1. 100% correct.

2. There were a lot of people 6 months ago i agree, but today, i would think 95%+ of the people here understand and have accepted the "Standard" for free porn is 2 - 3 min video clips and they understand that free porn video clips is only going to get longer and longer. (see sig). I don't see many people at all anymore just bitching about legal tube sites.

I know a guy personally who just dropped $80,000 on content to give away, in huge huge chunks on his tube. I guess we'll see how that plays out.

Well if you come to someone and put money on the table, it's always hard to resist to grab them.

Noone cares if that money are from pushing coke, selling stuff that you stole or pimping.

Unless there will be effective legislation and precedent in place and costs of what you can make pushing stolen content at least comparable to what you risk pushing stolen content, it's a tough situation to beat.

If we were back in 99 it would be solved cause noone would be able to afford to stream full length videos, now the bandwith and broadband penetration is in place, so the time of the web 2.0 aka total mess and no control has come..

Given the free spirited nature of the Internet and it's massive growth, don't you think it's a little short sighted to think its users would allow us to dictate forever how they consume?

Remember, Person of the year this year was YOU!

Well there existed this thing called p2p ages ago before the tube trend, how much did it hurted your sales? Not a big deal, why?

ACCESIBILITY is the key, you want to download something over p2p it will take you hours, you wanna jerk off with a tube site it will stream right away.

I am totally conserned, that in majority, it's not users who upload the stolen aka full length vids, what motivation would they have to do that?

Who needs updates so people come back to the site and the traffic keeps on growing? Why would you spend probably hours uploading a full length vid? to have a good Robin Hood feeling?

It's either the site owners or someone who pulls there a full length video with a link to his scamblog or whatever that noone clicks at.

At the moment where you would be hypothetically able to prove it's not users, a part of the problem is solved.

good to know

http://juliablue.com/k70.jpg

Looks like

el borracho mucho cervezas

adapt or die= Im a short term thinker. When governments start filtering porn off the internet because of the swell of tubes. Mark my words then the short term thinkers will cry why are they picking on us?
Wanna know why all these people are embracing illegal tubes because sales are off no matter how much bullshit is thrown here and people are getting scared.Desperate people do desperate things.
If morons think they are going to get all this traffic giving full scenes away that arent theirs and then say now you have to pay and magically they are going to start spending money your playing with yourself.

Another thing to remember, CONTROL is a key issue in ANY business,

It's something different to allow people to create their profiles and share videos of their cats and cars and all different kinds of shit that people think interests others, than to let someone benefit from the copyright infridgement.

In other words you exploit something that is so popular that it will surely attract a huge audience, but you have no rights to do so and you are fucking someone else in the ass.

Now imagine, theoretically - there is a real couple that likes to show off and would want to put their own sex video on the web..

Now ask them a simple question:

Would you like to upload it to my site for free or would you want to get also money for that?

What will be the answer?

Ahhh Mr. Short Term Thinker himself has arrived. Yes, tube sites are going to kill your business. You're not going to be able to pimp out your wife on the internet for subscription sales, anymore.

Please don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You keep forgetting it cost money to make that content. IF tubes didnt have shitloads of free shit to giveaway they wouldnt be the new hot thing. Look at all the legal tubes they arent even close in traffic to the illegal ones. So its not some hot new model, its fancy shoplifting.

Of course it costs money to make content. That's a given. What you don't get, obviously, is that how you MAKE money on that content is changing.

You don't pay NBC to watch their prime time programs, either.

What's going to happen, is subscription sales as we know it will probably suffer heavily. People like you are going to be sitting around, with your paysites, hoping the users come back and pay for monthly access. Others are going to be giving surfers the porn for free and selling other things to them.

No amount of planning, meeting, crying or whining is going to stop the model emerging. For you and your kind, it really is adapt or die time.