baddog

I talk to Donny. He is not hurting. God sells. And you have zero idea what I make.

BTW, next time . . . ah, never mind.

esnem

and then multiply it

wdsguy

I am lucky if I even make 500 bucks this yr from porn!

esnem

yea because i hear mainstream makes more than everyone in this thread put together. especially the experts!

Rochard

That might just be the funniest thing I've ever read on GFY.... Ever.

__________________
“The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.”
- Sarah Huckabee Sanders

Jace

I can't seem to make more than $5 a day!!!!

damn this porn stuff!

BlackCrayon

The funniest thing out of all of this. Donny is still making money from porn. If not for his former profession, no one would give a shit about him. Without porn, hes a nobody.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

GITZINGER

you sound like an idiot.

I highly doubt you make $63k a year.

moron.

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Your momma was a ho!!!

TheAmericanCannibal

You'd be wrong Gitz...
Mike is probably the highest paid affiliate mgr in all of online porn.
He is also one of the smartest
:-))

GITZINGER

Wouldn't be the first time i'm wrong, but he still sounds like an idiot for saying it.

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Your momma was a ho!!!

baddog

He could be THE highest, and $500k would still be a number he dreamed of.

esnem

and taught by the best.

if i had less brains, or actually gave a fuck, i would show him a screen cap of what that looks like in a week and no not from steven's pocket.

all i said was that donnie making 500k and then going on tv as if he was actually relevant to this industry as a content producer was unimpressive. i will admit that he is making himself much more relevant through xxx church because i actually know who he is now.

baddog again, i make money and you take pictures.

baddog

and you obviously do not have a clue as to what I do. I take the pics as a hobby/fun.

I hardly rely on that as any part of my income.

esnem

i was rightfully busting your balls

SteveLightspeed

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Abra-cadabra!

Grapesoda

why do you believe that dp did? I was grossing about 280K however I had about 12K in agency fees, 120K in modeling fees, another 50-60K in biz expenses. so now I can run around claiming I made 280K?

baddog

I did not say I believe he did. I said it was ignorant to suggest that $500k was not an impressive income.

If not ignorant, arrogant at least.

esnem

to get back onto the topic of the thread...

donnie's arguments in that debate were incredibly weak. because he 'exploited' girls, there is something wrong with an industry where not everyone does that? he feels guilty about what he himself did, and perhaps rightfully so.

craig tries to argue that what we sell is a fantasy and it is not real. so what? have you ever watched a movie or tv show. i have news for you, that's not real either. get over it. it didn't start with porn, it started with fiction.

on the point that craig raised about girls not really doing a lot of what you see in porn...i have more news for you, yes they do. if your girl doesn't, then i feel bad for you and you should find a new one.

he talks about the guy who had to fantasize when he was with his girlfriend...she more than likely sucked in bed and he had no interest in her sexually. if that caused relationship problems, then he should look for a new relationship with a girl who keeps his interest. stop being a pussy and get over it.

those are just a few point to bring up to donnie and craig's flawed and scattered arguments. what else do you guys have?

esnem

you make ignorant posts and i make arrogant ones

CurrentlySober

i like poo

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My Dream Gal... XXX

esnem

for all the kids out there...
http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Arrogant

Grapesoda

I agree, a 500K NET is good coin to pull in.. as for who's ignorant and who's arrogant I'll leave up to Santa Clause

SHANESWORLD

Mike is one of the very few people I look up to and aspire to be like. he is very good at what he does and is not some "affiliate rep". The guy makes moves, makes cash, and makes Hirsch and himself lots of money. I know this for a fact. He isn't arrogant, and I believe was only making a point that Donny's presentation was very unimpressive. If I am wrong please correct me. Making 500k and profiting 500k is two separate things. I don't believe this is the issue here anyhow.

I personally would not call Donny one of the most successful and well known pornographers in this industry, like the show did, but we all know how things are blown up for media, so no harm - no foul on that.

Now with that said.

I watched the entire thing online and I personally saw many things that were not in line with what i know to be the truth. I found myself calling bullshit more than a few times when Donny spoke in the debate. I am not talking about personal finances. That I am not egotistical enough to pursue nor care enough about. I don't even feel it's relevant to the discussion. Money is money. This is about the dangers of porn on society it seemed to me.

BD and some others here were and are friends/acquaintances with Donny and I would expect nothing less than to have strong feelings about this issue. However, he is now the enemy in my book. Although I will not attack him directly, he is calling unsolicited attention to the industry for his own gain, and that I do not support or appreciate.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and with heated debate sometimes comes personal attack. Being able to separate the two can lend to great discussion on the issues.

That is my general point.



Airek



.

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baddog

You changed your name? Amazing.

tony286

Would of rather had you than Ron on our side for the debate. lol

esnem

i only got up the 6th clip, the 7th wasn't playing for some reason.

SHANESWORLD

no, the other one is mine. this one is the companies. i thought it was a good idea to create them their own. mine is 4+ years old, and well, just that, mine. its always been mine. i think its important for them to have their own presence.



a1r3k is sitting at 33,333. thought thats a good landmark to give him a break for a bit. i've had some offers on the sig, so while i let those marinate, i have a program launch coming so its time to get our program out there more. makes no diff to me what name i use to do what i do, the results will be the same.

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esnem

the biggest problem i saw with the debate up until the 6th clip was that while Ron and Monique were arguing the legitimacy of the industry, donnie kept talking about himself and craig kept trying to make the point that the industry had a right to exist all the while promoting his product. what are they debating? ron definitely hit on that early.

to donnie, i would say that wasn't very jesus-like. that's called being a fucking drama queen.

brandonstills

And I thought presidential debates had a lot of question dodging. Very interesting to hear the other side.

__________________

Brandon Stills
Industry and programming veteran
[email protected] | skype: brandonstills | ICQ #495-171-318

esnem

good points airek. i think one of the real weak points in donny's whole position is that he's trying attack and not attack the industry at the same time. what he ends up doing is attacking it anyway but says he's not so that he can keep some credibility to his points get addressed within the industry.

donny and craig both tried to exempt monique from a lot of their criticisms of the industry as a whole. donny allows exceptions to be made to his rules of the industry that he claims he was once 'foremost' in.

donnie then goes on to describe some not so pleasant situations in which he himself created or was responsible for. situations that he admitted do not happen under normal circumstances or on a regular basis.

the guy plays both sides of the fence. he has little credibility. his rules are filled with exception. on top of it all, donny admits that he 'exploited' women when he worked in the industry.

airek, i will say, and i know that you would also say for yourself, that i do not feel guilty for exploiting women because i do not exploit women. now why is a guy who exploited women, criticizing the industry that you and i are a part of? should the woman exploiter tell us about how what we are doing is wrong, when he is actually referring to the things he did wrong himself?

born to a woman, who claimed she was a virgin, over two thousand years ago, craig's hero claimed he was the only son of the almighty god of the entire universe which he made himself in the time it takes the earth to make seven rotations, even though the earth hadn't yet existed until he was done and rested on that last day. craig's buddy healed sick people and he helped the poor and walked around proclaiming himself the savior of the human race. thousands of years went by with wars being fought and story books being written by perverts and rapists who wrote a book as if they were a god. they drank out of lead cups and talked about places that we now know don't even exist. they had guys killed who made telescopes and disagreed with their bullshit ideas that were all proven wrong. in between young boys these priests with bloody hands and cocks wrote that nice little story book the bible, not god or a delusional jew named jesus. donny and craig feel that they can use a story book (with that kind of history) to take a moral high ground over you or i.

i hope they realize that it's them who bought into the real bullshit fantasy that didn't exist.

Cory W

I remember years ago watching a great many debates spawn regarding "employees" versus "owners." I can even remember some business owners saying they would rather make $30k / year as an owner rather than $100k / year as an employee. While I chimed in once, I left it alone as there really wasn't much for me to gain by posting.

One thing I have noticed in the past few years is that "employees" with outside investments (aka owning sites, technology or traffic) seem to have prospered. When I first came into this industry, the CEO I worked for had his own business. Of the many beneficial things I learned, the most important was watching him relate to a corporate mentality using his webmaster intimacy. I vowed I would never take a job that didn't allow me to work on my own projects and have been true to the vow ever since: It's paid off as I have been able to contribute to the company at a much higher level.

Over the course of the past two years, I have noticed a migration of "owners" trying to find jobs with companies. Many haven't lasted, I reasonably assume this being due to the fact that when you work for a corporation, you have to possess a wide range of business skills. Many people in this industry can't formulate a proper sentence, much less put together a resume; And they don't care.

Mike is a shining example of someone that has benefited from the afformentioned. He's a smart guy that has been able to diversify not only his income, but even more importantly and much overlooked, his knowledge base. He is business savvy and entrepreneurial. He has a multitude of resources at his fingertips stemming from a variety of different resource pools. I talk to Mike on a daily basis and can assure you he is someone that is a very bright and helpful guy. I would also consider him an influential figure.

Before I would crucify him over something that epitomizes being inconsequential, I might consider the bigger picture.

__________________
ICQ: 292310358
Offering writing and content services (mainstream).
Marketing for L3 Payments

Cory W

Additionally and most importantly, Mike is in my top Myspace.

__________________
ICQ: 292310358
Offering writing and content services (mainstream).
Marketing for L3 Payments

esnem

thanks Cory

i don't think the thread wasn't meant to go in that direction. i made a jab at donny and some people were offended apparently. i still stand behind what i wrote in the context in which i wrote it.

that being said, i would like to continue attacking donny's credibility because i find it weak. please feel free to join in if you've watched the debate.

Kelli58

The whole thing was very interesting to say the least. But what I find most interesting is that we have spent more time trashing each other than we have discussing the actual issue at hand.

And for the record, I know Mike and he's not arrogant, he's not an ass and I can't think of anyone that younger webmasters should strive to be more than him.

He's hard working and down to earth. Despite making a crap load of money, he still somehow finds time to just shoot the shit with the smaller guys. There aren't really many guys left like that in our industry.

As for his point ... I"m going to have to say that I agree what anything out of Donny's mouth wasn't impressive. I don't care if the boy claims to have made $500,000 in 6 months or 6 days. Nothing from him impresses me ... most especially the amount of money he claims to have made.

Foremost porn producer, huh? More like foremost bullshitter who conned some producer on ABC into thinking he was more than he is or ever was, so he can get his 5 minutes of fame.

If you want someone to look up to, look toward the guys who are making bank and still finding the time to lend a helping hand to the smaller guys, even when it in no way benefits them. Now that's impressive to me.

quesadilla

i want to see the public available financials for craig gross. i would bet its far far more than the legitimate pastor.

these two both wreak of cashing in. hell donny even called it before he went to do it.

pocketkangaroo

Is he really the enemy though? I personally think religion has done more for pornography than any other thing in this world. The more "taboo" porn gets, the more it seems to sell. I've always felt the biggest fear for the porn industry would be that it becomes too accepted in culture. Just look at swimsuit calenders and magazines. Decades ago they had a taboo to them, and they sold like crazy. Now tell me the last time you rushed out to the store to pick up the SI Swimsuit Edition (or heck, an issue of Playboy which is now considered tame by today's standards).

On the same boat, Donny and Craig make their money off the porn industry. The last thing they would want is for it to go away. As long as they work on just treating something that can't be cured (sexual arousal), they can be in business forever.

quesadilla

also, can someone please identify the 6 girls that craig gross is helping out of the industry so i can exploit the news announcements when they are made.

thanks.

SHANESWORLD

you are 100% correct.

so in essence, let me throw this out there.

donny and craig gross directly benefit from contributory exploitation.




without the porn industry "exploitng" <sarcasm> women, and "ruining" </sarcasm> marriages, and all the other things that are terrible about porn, they both would be selling cars.

do they have the right to do it? sure! more power to them. but lets be real here.

of course neither are going to thank ron and monique for having the ability to put pancakes on the table every sunday morning, but down inside, they both know that they are not going to stop shit! ever.

sex is the oldest industry in the world. it will be here long after anyone reading this board is still alive.



i think making their money that way is far less respectable than Jet bumping contest threads, but you know what, i do respect it, because they have that right as citizens of the u.s.

rock out with your cock out, and when you get that luxury car and million dollar mansion up in the hill, it didn't come from jesus, that shit came from porn too!

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D Ghost

hahahahahaha

SHANESWORLD

let me straighten something else for people. i am not in the porn business. i am in the TRANSACTION business. its about credit cards and metrics and dollars, not porn. if there was no $ in porn would i be here? hell no. this business is about banging cards and delivering people something THEY seek. nothing more, nothing less. there is nothing illegal about adult entertainment. there is a DEMAND, we SUPPLY it. just to keep it real for everyone. if anyone ever asks you what business you're in, tell them the CREDIT CARD TRANSACTION business. for real.



this has been my daily lesson.

lolllllll.

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pocketkangaroo

I have respect for them businesswise. They are selling something, just like we do. We sell fantasy, sexual gratification. They sell perceived salvation. A motivational speaker is going to sell self worth while a dietician sells self esteem. I think their idea is great though, the debates are probably entertaining to watch and draw good audiences around the country.

The funniest part is that they rely on pornstars right now to even get speaking gigs. Yale would not have brought in Craig and Donny to speak on their own. Nightline would not have dedicated that much time to those two. Ron Jeremy sells tickets, not some unknown "porn pastor". You take Ron out of the equation and they don't make squat. They need the porn business badly.

So while they yammer on about "exploitation", they are "exploiting" the porn industry and others. Donny exploits his ex-gf to draw attention to his new business. He exploits former models, ex-wives, even his own kid. He exploits people in the industry everyday by using them in his blog and speeches. For a man who hates himself for "exploiting" some college girls, he sure doesn't seem to mind "exploiting" everyone else in the world for profit.

It's just beyond ironic to hear a group complain about exploitation as they wrap their religion's most sacred book in a porn-themed cover for media attention.

SHANESWORLD

Preach it!

You got my support.

if it was one word to describe all this without spin...........it it






































Hypocrisy.

When craig gross is rocking around hollywood in a year or so and going to villa and hyde and all those pretentious clubs cuz he is a rockstar in jesus land, it will be porn that put him there. it will be US who put him in his ferrari. i bet they have already amassed millions in contributions to "fight" the bad porn people.

he'll be rolled up in a scandal someday and repeat the process of repenting.

"oh help me lord, i succumbed to the demons of wealth and i give myself to you jesus, please forgive me oh invisible excellence."

not to laugh at them, but i am a non believer. not because of adult. i believe what i know to be fact, not what the majority of children in the u.s. are forced to believe from birth. being american indian gives me an edge on this garbage. i am convinced that religion was created to twart anarchy. call me crazy but anyone can be influenced, including the MEN that wrote the bible and created all those stories about faith. thats a whole other discussion and one i am happy to have in the right setting, but not entirely appropriate here at this very moment.

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esnem

i think we should laugh at them. what they are using to support their base argument is nothing more than a bunch of stories written by people who didn't even know that the earth was round. it is lunacy.

they are either exploiting this or are brainwashed themselves. the insanity in the christian religion is right in front of your eyes as long as you open them. just because someone lived 2 thousand years ago does not mean they came back form the dead. human beings do not do that. they are basing their core arguments on fantasy, not reality.

i think we should attack donnie and craig's bullshit religion as long as they want to continue to attack our industry.

both of these guys are trying to exploit YOU. if you say that you respect that, i have no respect for you. these two are true pieces of shit.

gideongallery

the problem is that it is a matter of prespective

Mutt and steve lightspeed both pretend as that girls who have long since retired are actually still working in the business.

vivid does the same thing, when their girls suddenly retire.

This creates the false impression that the girl is still doing porn even after she has left it in her past

She can never escape the past because the internet preception is that she is still doing "porn"

Obviously there is a business benefit to the program owner, it does trap the girls all be it with golden handcuffs by undermining other opertunities outside the porn industry.

Yet none of the "porn producers" will admit the consequence of this action, all will justify it based on their investment.

The reality is you could make back the money from your investment by telling the truth (the girl has retired, your looking at her past work) it would just take longer, and the ROI might not be has high. but the ratio of profit to production cost is high enough (2k scene making 50k) that you could still make money by being honest.

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“When crimes occur through the mail, you don’t shut the post office down,” Steve Wozniak