ccBill, no co-procoessor's allowed? please advise..! we feel trapped. - GoFuckYourself.com

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 01:44 PM

hello all... ok, we have been following the frightening events unfolding here for the last couple of days, and are getting increasingly confused and concerned about what we need to do here... initially, it seemed since we already have a US presence all we were going to have to do was pay the $750 penalty (along w/ the yearly tariff) and all would be well, we have enjoyed great service from ccBill in the past and wouldn't even consider breaking from them, as we have never had any problem w/ them or their service, and have extensive rebills going on daily through them (along w/ a chargeback ratio that is *well* below 1%!). we have no desire to leave ccBill, period. however, from posts made here in the forum today, we are once again worried.

our sites would probably fall into the near-extreme niche catagories, featuring both simulated bondage and urination, among other topics that some may deem unsavory (absolutely *NO* bestiality, CP-related or blood-letting material, that is for sure!)... is it true that VISA may arbitrarily decide to stop processing our account at some point in the future, even if we have paid the new processing fee's and have more than aceptable chargeback ratio's? just some day we will get an email or call that informs us that "sorry, VISA doesn't like your site, you're screwed." the only acceptable solution we can see to this issue would be to pay the $750 to ccBill, and continue to use them for rebills and all card transactions except VISA, and get an account w/ gloBill as well, and use them for all *new* VISA transactions, just in case we get some bad news relayed from ccBill in the near future stating that VISA doesn't approve of the fetishes of our customers... while this wouldn't be an optimal solution, it would at least be a decent stop-gap measure.

sadly, today it has been alluded to here in the forum (not sure which processor made this statement now, but it was one of the top three) that if we have a gloBill account as a secondary processor on our sites, our primary accounts (all laden w/ rebills, no doubt) will be cancelled w/out warning or mercy, and we could be put out of business overnight. so, we cant have both accounts to protect our financial interests, and we cannot know whether our current accounts are safe from the VISA secret police force... what are we to do? just sit on our hands and wait, for a possible axe to fall?? my chest is starting to hurt again...

any insight into this matter from any one of the ccBill representatives would be very welcome, i have no desire to scream and cast accusations about as some have here, but i feel we (along w/ surely many others who have generated conisderable revenue for these processors) are being put into an unfair position. from what i have read here, it seems you (ccBill, iBill, ePoch, etc.) will not be taking any position to protect or reassure us, as your customers, will be able to continue to conduct business, yet our hands are somehow tied to explore secondary/backup options for our peace of mind. this does not bode well.

as i stated previously, we have *no* desire to leave ccBill or the wonderful service and support we have received from them, but this current situation and the onerous shadow of VISA raining hellfire down upon us by surprise is not going to help us sleep at night... especially since we seem to be disallowed from looking towards any other options unilaterally, and doing so after the fact is not a pleasant option really. please try to address these concerns for us, we are loyal customers of ccBill and feel we have been put in a very bad position here, w/ no indication as to what we can do.

Brown Bear · 10-04-2002, 01:50 PM

ATTENTION!

It is all over. There is no more online porn industry.

Please proceed to www.monster.com and look for a new job.

Thank you.

andi_germany · 10-04-2002, 01:57 PM

My advice is: Use a VISA card to make the $750 payment and charge it back when you get terminated ;)

Carrie · 10-04-2002, 01:59 PM

LMFAO!!

Bobo · 10-04-2002, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andi_germany
My advice is: Use a VISA card to make the $750 payment and charge it back when you get terminated ;)

lol

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 02:02 PM

Quote:

My advice is: Use a VISA card to make the $750 payment and charge it back when you get terminated ;)

heh. thx for the laugh, that sounds called for... any real input about this however?

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 03:10 PM

please, any ccBill rep's please reply about these issues? many of your customers are affected by these happenings, and we need a clue what we can do!

sexyavs · 10-04-2002, 03:14 PM

Chupa,

Did you try calling CCbill?

They are at http://ccbill.com

sexyavs · 10-04-2002, 03:16 PM

I just looked and ccbill has some info on there site. I would try this for contacting them:
Contact Us

CCBill
1501 W. 17th St.
Tempe, AZ 85281

Account Billing:
Hours: 9AM until 5 PM (Arizona Time).
Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751
International: 1-888-596-9279
Fax: (480) 449-8823

Sales
Hours: 6AM until 8 PM (Arizona Time).
Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751
International: 1-888-596-9279
Fax: (480) 449-8807

Tech Support:
Hours: 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751
Fax: (480) 449-8820

I also believe [email protected] or [email protected] would get you a quicker answer than posting here.

Chris

Kick Ass · 10-04-2002, 03:19 PM

Where are fucking ccbill reps ? answer the dam question asap.

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 03:39 PM

hehe, funny Sunshine McGillicutty, i can empathize surely... well, i've called ccBill a couple of times today but noone who has come on the line finally was able to tell me *anything* in regards to any new requirements or caveats of 'niche' content, and were totally uncommital about the whole issue. i was hoping, since seeing RonC and Corvett posting here in the forums, that perhaps we could get any definitive information about all of this from those who are 'in the know' over at ccBill... as i said in my previous posts, we feel our hands are tied here what w/ the talk about not being able to keep using ccBill (which we really want to do!) while relying on a secondary processor for future VISA sales 'just in case'. i'm sure we all want business to continue as smoothly as possible for everyone here, and i feel the most for those webmasters who are both foreign and lacking a current US presence.

but please, before slamming us niche operators, just keep in mind, many things (like anal sex for one!) was at one time considered vaguley 'taboo' and 'niche', things change. please clue in your many niche webmasters ccBill, we await w/ bated breath!

vik · 10-04-2002, 03:43 PM

All of these Visa regs sounds like a great start to a class-action lawsuit regarding "restraint-of-trade" and the Sherman Anti-Trust act, not to mention the arbitrary censorship issue. Where's a Civil Liberties Union represenative on these boards?

vik

Pipecrew · 10-04-2002, 03:46 PM

i am curious to what your content is

vik · 10-04-2002, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pipecrew
i am curious to what your content is

Who are you asking?

vik

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 04:08 PM

mostly urnination, some staged bondage material too...

what i wonder about is, how can VISA check *every* website by hand? wouldn't this be a massive undertaking, considering the thousands upon thousands of websites out there? is ccBill and the other two large processors going to advise their customers at some point *before* we start shelling out money towards this new VISA registration process whether we are going to be approved or not? are the processors themselves going to be involved in this 'approval' process?

IanUK · 10-04-2002, 04:28 PM

There will almost certainly be a time backlog if they do check every site by hand *before* allowing them.

Perhaps they will just rely on complaints

I can just imagine it:

'Hey, I don't like my competitors site - I'll just register a free email address and complain about them to Visa'

How scary is all this becoming...

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 04:33 PM

i guess all we 'niche' guys can do at this point is pay up, hope, and try to play ball... i'm discouraged that noone at ccBill will comment on this matter however, that doesn't sit well w/ me.

maybe they don't even know all the details? i find that hard to believe though, considering it has been alluded to that all the processors knew about this shitstorm a long time ago...

again, any comment from ccBill to us and others wondering about similar concerns, would be greatly appreciated..!

RonC · 10-04-2002, 05:03 PM

chupacabra

I think you are confusing two issues here

1. Issue is Visa not liking the content on your site.

Visa tomorrow could decide that they do not like this or that type of content (i.e. lolita or bestiality) and your site is gone world wide. I am not worried about the registration process for our current CCbill clients after our internal reviews.

2. What Clay (Epoch) was trying to say is the same thing that CCbill, Ibill or for that matter any other U.S. IPSP will not be able to register it in two locations in the world. You will be free to still register with two US IPSP (ie Ibill, Epoch, WSB, PSWbilling Etc)
You just will not be able to use a foreign and a US company.

Example Domain 123.com will be registered with CCbill as owned by John Doe who lives in the Florida. In Visa mind they will enter into their database domain 123.com is US owned. If a foreign IPSP (i.e. as Globill is claiming to now be) Globill would have to register the domain also saying to Visa it is a French owned domain for example. Now Visa will have a conflict and problem.

How can we be in compliance with Visa with two separate companies claiming two different owner locations.

I am sure the reason Clay (Epoch) responded the way he did is due to the fact that Visa is taking this issue very seriously. Along with the fact we have all seen Visa's email response to Globill claim's. Lets just say Visa does not have the same opinion as Globill. Last time I checked it was still Visa cards we were talking about not Globill cards.

Ron C
CEO, CCbill.com

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 05:17 PM

RonC, thank you *very* much for your informative reply... that clears up some of my questions in regards to us 'niche' site owners, my main query is still this, are the requirements for content suitability going to change now? and if so, is it only in regards to those of us who choose to continue accepting VISA? what if we decide to "Opt-Out" of the VISA option? in the years that we have done business w/ ccBill, we have never had any of the material that is known to be disallowed by ccBill on our sites, which as far as we know is inclusive of the following:

Lolita/Teen media (anything that depicts models as underage)

Bestiality in *any* form

Blood-Letting (hard S/M, beatings, etc.)

Also, I can proudly mention, that we have *never* received any notification or warning of excesive chargebacks or refunds on our sites, we give the surfer what is advertised.

We have no problem complying w/ the new financial requirements for continuing to process VISA cards, and will happily pay them to continue conducting business, as i mentioned in my initial post ccBill has always treated us right, both w/ service and fast mailing of checks, you guys are easily the best processor we have ever worked w/, bar none.

we do not want to move, nor deal w/ having to set up any sort of secondary processor to try to continue to take VISA payments, we are just worried that *our* particular niches might suddenly, and w/out warning, become unwelcome at ccBill after all this time.

thx again for your reply, i think it says a lot about your company that you have personally come to GFY forums to try to answer questions for us webmaster. have a great weekend..!

RonC · 10-04-2002, 05:26 PM

I do not have your account number to review your site to give you a absolute Yes or No on so I will speak in General terms.

The only type niche site that I think could be a problem in the future would be Rape. Again this is just a guess. I am not Visa and I do not make the rules.

J B · 10-04-2002, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
Example Domain 123.com will be registered with CCbill as owned by John Doe who lives in the Florida. In Visa mind they will enter into their database domain 123.com is US owned. If a foreign IPSP (i.e. as Globill is claiming to now be) Globill would have to register the domain also saying to Visa it is a French owned domain for example. Now Visa will have a conflict and problem.

How can we be in compliance with Visa with two separate companies claiming two different owner locations.

So all that needs to be done is the following?

Have a presence in the US and in Europe.
Domain123.com is a US owned domain and uses a US IPSP.
Domain-123.com is a European owned domain and uses a European IPSP.
Use Domain123.com as your main domain and use the US IPSP as your main processor and if the transaction fails you use the European IPSP as backup.

???

ClevelandSlim · 10-04-2002, 06:52 PM

lol. exactly.

what about this...

domain123.com/AMERICAN-hoes/join.html
this will be the join page for my american project...

but what about my vice president FiFi, my main exec in france with his trusty sony digicam and host of hooker/models that jointly comprise domain123.com/FRENCH-hoes/join.html

doesn't that fuckin constitute an "offshore" presence?

visa is smarter than this.

my friends, this sounds like the handy work of bush administration to me

<center><img src="http://www.thickstrippers.com/411/thewaronterror.jpg"></center>

Lexxx · 10-04-2002, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC

The only type niche site that I think could be a problem in the future would be Rape. Again this is just a guess. I am not Visa and I do not make the rules.

Yeiii... I can process animals again!!!

chupacabra · 10-04-2002, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Yeiii... I can process animals again!!!

actually, i'm going to assume that RonC is only tacking the 'Rape' variable onto the list i had previously posted, bestiality is still a no-no i'm sure...

A.Martin · 10-04-2002, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC

I am sure the reason Clay (Epoch) responded the way he did is due to the fact that Visa is taking this issue very seriously. Along with the fact we have all seen Visa's email response to Globill claim's. Lets just say Visa does not have the same opinion as Globill. Last time I checked it was still Visa cards we were talking about not Globill cards.

Ron C
CEO, CCbill.com

Excuse me, Mr. Cadwell, but what email are you referring to when you state "Visa's email response to Globill claim's"?

If you are referring to posts of Visa's new regulations on this board, then that is fine. If you are alleging that there has been some specific email correspondence between Visa and Glo-Bill, concerning any statements or policies specific to Glo-Bill, then that is not fine as there has been no such communication, let alone anything posted to this board to that effect.

I will assume that you are simply referring to posts concerning the new regs and I apologize if I seem to have some ruffled feathers. If you are referring to anything else, please let us know.

Amputate Your Head · 10-04-2002, 07:21 PM

Look out!!! Full on Processor SMACKDOWN comin'!!!!

J B · 10-04-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandSlim
lol. exactly.

what about this...

domain123.com/AMERICAN-hoes/join.html
this will be the join page for my american project...

but what about my vice president FiFi, my main exec in france with his trusty sony digicam and host of hooker/models that jointly comprise domain123.com/FRENCH-hoes/join.html

doesn't that fuckin constitute an "offshore" presence?

visa is smarter than this.

my friends, this sounds like the handy work of bush administration to me

Hmmm... we own companies in three European countries, do business between the companies and bill eachother, do projects together, etc...

In order to continue using our US IPSP's we would need to get a US presence and use e.g. our domain statsremote.com just as we do now, the only difference is that domain now is US owned. So, what's wrong with setting up stats-remote.com owned by a European company and using a European IPSP? There are no tax issues as the companies would have all necessary agreements and pay all required taxes, that's what lawyers and accountants are for.

Am I missing something here?

Mutt · 10-04-2002, 07:37 PM

Is an IPSP which resides in America but its merchant accounts are all with foreign banks considered an American IPSP?

Jon · 10-04-2002, 08:16 PM

wheres the Visa response to globill thread or letter?

Amputate Your Head · 10-04-2002, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV
wheres the Visa response to globill thread or letter?

I'd pay to see that letter as well.... (with my Visa card of course)

A.Martin · 10-04-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by NiteChatDotTV
wheres the Visa response to globill thread or letter?

Nowhere. Because no such letter exists. Please see my post to Mr. Cadwell further up this thread.

For the moment I am assuming that Mr. Cadwell either misquoted someone or worded his post in a way that does not convey his original intention. We are awaiting further clarification from Mr. Cadwell.

steffie · 10-04-2002, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by andi_germany
My advice is: Use a VISA card to make the $750 payment and charge it back when you get terminated ;)

Perfect Andi,, Perfect!!!

steffie · 10-04-2002, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chupacabra
hehe, funny Sunshine McGillicutty, i can empathize surely... well, i've called ccBill a couple of times today but noone who has come on the line finally was able to tell me *anything* in regards to any new requirements or caveats of 'niche' content, and were totally uncommital about the whole issue. i was hoping, since seeing RonC and Corvett posting here in the forums, that perhaps we could get any definitive information about all of this from those who are 'in the know' over at ccBill... as i said in my previous posts, we feel our hands are tied here what w/ the talk about not being able to keep using ccBill (which we really want to do!) while relying on a secondary processor for future VISA sales 'just in case'. i'm sure we all want business to continue as smoothly as possible for everyone here, and i feel the most for those webmasters who are both foreign and lacking a current US presence.

but please, before slamming us niche operators, just keep in mind, many things (like anal sex for one!) was at one time considered vaguley 'taboo' and 'niche', things change. please clue in your many niche webmasters ccBill, we await w/ bated breath!

I also have niche sites and called to ask. No real answer in writing lots of hm, we are not sure yet! Than I asked regarding offshore backup billers. No answer..
What I would like to see is a list of niches who will no longer be processed by our billers, something in writing! You know formally announce your out of business.
I did ask what would happen to our money in case Visa decides not to bill us -- No refund there!!!
So I doubt we are going to see that list until after Visa made a decision which sites fits its image and which doesn't

Scary - Censorship now?

steffie · 10-04-2002, 08:43 PM

Btw, its great that R. C. is posting here, lots of questions where answered here without pestering your poor salespeople on the phone!

I do pity these guys, I have called also and I also worry way to much most of the time!

So after my last post I did re-read what R. C. has posted and I must admit I am a moron and now see where he puts down regarding the backup offshore biller. Duh!

Still no straight answer regarding niche sites, what flies what dies. It would be nice to know before we pay

kevinl · 10-05-2002, 04:39 AM

Oh shit.

I primary proceess with CCbill on some sites and backup process with Globill on others. I do just the opposite on others.

Are you saying that I cannot use ccbill and globill as both a primary and secondary.

Some one needs to post this.

I saw another thread with the Epoch guy saying this and I thought he was just blowing smoke.

I am not going to flush my secondary processor rebills down the toilet.

Ron are you saying that Visa actually said that a webmaster can't have a processor in different regions. You said Clay from Epoch said... what are you saying? If I have globill as a primary and you as secondary i will loose my ccbill rebills and on accounts where I have Globill as the secondary I will have to give those up.

Are you saying this is contained in correspondance from Visa ? How can i get a copy?

jimmyf · 10-05-2002, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin

Excuse me, Mr. Cadwell, but what email are you referring to when you state "Visa's email response to Globill claim's"?

If you are referring to posts of Visa's new regulations on this board, then that is fine. If you are alleging that there has been some specific email correspondence between Visa and Glo-Bill, concerning any statements or policies specific to Glo-Bill, then that is not fine as there has been no such communication, let alone anything posted to this board to that effect.

I will assume that you are simply referring to posts concerning the new regs and I apologize if I seem to have some ruffled feathers. If you are referring to anything else, please let us know.

The way I understood his post... Was "they" got an email.

ControlThy · 10-05-2002, 06:24 AM

Mr. Cadwell should not refer to any possible VISA emails without disclosing the contents of this email to Mr. Martin.

I also believe Mr. Martin is too nice.

kevinl · 10-05-2002, 01:17 PM

SunTzu · 10-05-2002, 02:33 PM

CCBill - why aren't you responding to this?

Several of us have CCBill AND GloBill as processors. We need to know if there's a problem with that or not.

Cindyff · 10-05-2002, 03:35 PM

I to would like to know as we have Epoch, Ibill and Globill.
Epoch and Globill are first class and we would want to keep processing with both for all our sites, IBILL can crash and burn for all i care.
Cindy xxx

Dax · 10-05-2002, 04:12 PM

Epoch - First class?????????

After they say: Go ahead switch, but then we dont want you back... in other words: go ahead leave us and fuck you u are fucked if anything happens...

Fuck that... I do not think that, that is a example of a first class institution...

chupacabra · 10-06-2002, 01:06 PM

so, is this confirmed and put to bed then... we absolutely *cannot* keep our existing ccBill accounts and take on Glo-Bill as a secondary processor just in case of disaster further down the road? i would really hate for ccBill to go south on us, w/ no alternative waiting in the wings already...

gothweb · 10-06-2002, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dax
Epoch - First class?????????

After they say: Go ahead switch, but then we dont want you back... in other words: go ahead leave us and fuck you u are fucked if anything happens...

Fuck that... I do not think that, that is a example of a first class institution...

That isn't what they said. They said that Glo-bill can go ahead and leave the US Region, but VISA USA won't want them back when they find out their loophole doesn't work. Don't be confused by all those tricky pronouns.

Brown Bear · 10-06-2002, 01:26 PM

Here is something that you need to avoid:

Lets say that you have rebills that will be going through CCBill (which goes through a VISA USA bank)

AND

You sign-up with Glo-Bill and start getting sales through Glo-Bill (which go through a non-Visa USA bank)

The problem here is that you will be processing sales with Visa that are going through two seperate Visa regions. This will no doubt red flag your URL at Visa headquarters, and they will probably add you to the TMF list.

To avoid this you should only get sales/rebills from processors that have their merchant banks in the same Visa region (preferably the same country). Visa is comprised of six regional operating organizations: Asia-Pacific; Canada; Central & Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa (CEMEA); European Union; Latin America & Caribbean; and the United States

wonton · 10-06-2002, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gothweb

That isn't what they said. They said that Glo-bill can go ahead and leave the US Region, but VISA USA won't want them back when they find out their loophole doesn't work. Don't be confused by all those tricky pronouns.

No way. Dax is correct on this one. Epoch's original post, when all this crap broke loose, what that WEBMASTERS can go ahead and leave but don't expect to be welcomed back by EPOCH. They took some major fucking heat for that statement.

Here's to 'ya Epoch

If they have since edited that post or somehow got it deleted and replaced then they are attempting major damage control...

chupacabra · 10-06-2002, 01:29 PM

Quote:

The problem here is that you will be processing sales with Visa that are going through two seperate Visa regions. This will no doubt red flag your URL at Visa headquarters, and they will probably add you to the TMF list.

thx for the reply, Brown Bear... but this still doesn't make sense to me; from gloBill's own statements, they will not be sharing our URL information w/ VISA like the 'big-3', so why would i get flagged from using both?

wonton · 10-06-2002, 01:43 PM

No one has yet pointed out the obvious. If you process with iBill, CCBill and Epoch you ARE in danger of being blacklisted by Visa because the Big3 have to report your URLs, name, SSN# etc to Visa from day one. They also have to report your chargeback %. The day you go over 1% is the day you end up on the Terminated Merchant Blacklist. Supposedly Visa will then ensure that NO OTHER processor at any time in the future takes on your site. You are permanently blacklisted.

The offshore processors like Dutchbill, Globill, Verotal do not do any reporting so if they terminate you for high chargebacks, it would be at the billing-level only. You could then go with another 3rd party processor since you are not yet blacklisted.

In other words, if you start with the Big3 and get terminated it's game over! If you start with an offshore processor and get terminated you at least get a second chance.

But it's still a fucked up situation no matter how you look at it!!

chupacabra · 10-06-2002, 02:02 PM

Quote:

The offshore processors like Dutchbill, Globill, Verotal do not do any reporting so if they terminate you for high chargebacks, it would be at the billing-level only. You could then go with another 3rd party processor since you are not yet blacklisted.

we have no worries regarding chargeback ratio's, ours have never even approached 1% in the past, our concerns lie more w/ all the talk that VISA will be hand-checking sites and disallowing people based on their own moral outlook... it would be nice to have gloBill or another option waiting in the wings if this were to happen in the future, but it remains unclear to us whether being denied due to content by VISA would affect this..

tree · 10-06-2002, 02:02 PM

10-04-2002, 01:44 PM	#1
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	ccBill, no co-procoessor's allowed? please advise..! we feel trapped. hello all... ok, we have been following the frightening events unfolding here for the last couple of days, and are getting increasingly confused and concerned about what we need to do here... initially, it seemed since we already have a US presence all we were going to have to do was pay the $750 penalty (along w/ the yearly tariff) and all would be well, we have enjoyed great service from ccBill in the past and wouldn't even consider breaking from them, as we have never had any problem w/ them or their service, and have extensive rebills going on daily through them (along w/ a chargeback ratio that is well below 1%!). we have no desire to leave ccBill, period. however, from posts made here in the forum today, we are once again worried. our sites would probably fall into the near-extreme niche catagories, featuring both simulated bondage and urination, among other topics that some may deem unsavory (absolutely NO bestiality, CP-related or blood-letting material, that is for sure!)... is it true that VISA may arbitrarily decide to stop processing our account at some point in the future, even if we have paid the new processing fee's and have more than aceptable chargeback ratio's? just some day we will get an email or call that informs us that "sorry, VISA doesn't like your site, you're screwed." the only acceptable solution we can see to this issue would be to pay the $750 to ccBill, and continue to use them for rebills and all card transactions except VISA, and get an account w/ gloBill as well, and use them for all new VISA transactions, just in case we get some bad news relayed from ccBill in the near future stating that VISA doesn't approve of the fetishes of our customers... while this wouldn't be an optimal solution, it would at least be a decent stop-gap measure. sadly, today it has been alluded to here in the forum (not sure which processor made this statement now, but it was one of the top three) that if we have a gloBill account as a secondary processor on our sites, our primary accounts (all laden w/ rebills, no doubt) will be cancelled w/out warning or mercy, and we could be put out of business overnight. so, we cant have both accounts to protect our financial interests, and we cannot know whether our current accounts are safe from the VISA secret police force... what are we to do? just sit on our hands and wait, for a possible axe to fall?? my chest is starting to hurt again... any insight into this matter from any one of the ccBill representatives would be very welcome, i have no desire to scream and cast accusations about as some have here, but i feel we (along w/ surely many others who have generated conisderable revenue for these processors) are being put into an unfair position. from what i have read here, it seems you (ccBill, iBill, ePoch, etc.) will not be taking any position to protect or reassure us, as your customers, will be able to continue to conduct business, yet our hands are somehow tied to explore secondary/backup options for our peace of mind. this does not bode well. as i stated previously, we have no desire to leave ccBill or the wonderful service and support we have received from them, but this current situation and the onerous shadow of VISA raining hellfire down upon us by surprise is not going to help us sleep at night... especially since we seem to be disallowed from looking towards any other options unilaterally, and doing so after the fact is not a pleasant option really. please try to address these concerns for us, we are loyal customers of ccBill and feel we have been put in a very bad position here, w/ no indication as to what we can do.

10-04-2002, 01:50 PM	#2
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	ATTENTION! It is all over. There is no more online porn industry. Please proceed to www.monster.com and look for a new job. Thank you. __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-04-2002, 03:14 PM	#8
sexyavs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 615	Chupa, Did you try calling CCbill? They are at http://ccbill.com __________________ <br> <a href="http://www.sexypassport.com/webmaster/webmaster.php?siteid=752359">Join the Highest Paying FREE AVS. </a><br> <a href="http://nakedpass.com/webmaster/webmaster.php">Naked Pass New FREE Avs Also Pays $20.00 Per FREE Signup!! </a><br> Have you checked out <a href="http://makefuckingmoney.com">Make Fucking Money!</a> Get Paid on FREE Memberships!

10-04-2002, 03:16 PM	#9
sexyavs Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 615	I just looked and ccbill has some info on there site. I would try this for contacting them: Contact Us CCBill 1501 W. 17th St. Tempe, AZ 85281 Account Billing: Hours: 9AM until 5 PM (Arizona Time). Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751 International: 1-888-596-9279 Fax: (480) 449-8823 Sales Hours: 6AM until 8 PM (Arizona Time). Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751 International: 1-888-596-9279 Fax: (480) 449-8807 Tech Support: Hours: 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Phone: 1 888 906-0666 or (480) 449-7751 Fax: (480) 449-8820 I also believe [email protected] or [email protected] would get you a quicker answer than posting here. Chris __________________ <br> <a href="http://www.sexypassport.com/webmaster/webmaster.php?siteid=752359">Join the Highest Paying FREE AVS. </a><br> <a href="http://nakedpass.com/webmaster/webmaster.php">Naked Pass New FREE Avs Also Pays $20.00 Per FREE Signup!! </a><br> Have you checked out <a href="http://makefuckingmoney.com">Make Fucking Money!</a> Get Paid on FREE Memberships!

10-04-2002, 03:43 PM	#12
vik Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 144	All of these Visa regs sounds like a great start to a class-action lawsuit regarding "restraint-of-trade" and the Sherman Anti-Trust act, not to mention the arbitrary censorship issue. Where's a Civil Liberties Union represenative on these boards? vik __________________ PhotosByVik.com Photonudity.com

10-04-2002, 01:57 PM	#3
andi_germany Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 768	My advice is: Use a VISA card to make the $750 payment and charge it back when you get terminated ;)

10-04-2002, 01:59 PM	#4
Carrie Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Virgin - nee Posts: 3,162	LMFAO!!

10-04-2002, 03:10 PM	#7
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	please, any ccBill rep's please reply about these issues? many of your customers are affected by these happenings, and we need a clue what we can do!

10-04-2002, 03:19 PM	#10
Kick Ass Registered User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 99	Where are fucking ccbill reps ? answer the dam question asap.

10-04-2002, 03:39 PM	#11
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	hehe, funny Sunshine McGillicutty, i can empathize surely... well, i've called ccBill a couple of times today but noone who has come on the line finally was able to tell me anything in regards to any new requirements or caveats of 'niche' content, and were totally uncommital about the whole issue. i was hoping, since seeing RonC and Corvett posting here in the forums, that perhaps we could get any definitive information about all of this from those who are 'in the know' over at ccBill... as i said in my previous posts, we feel our hands are tied here what w/ the talk about not being able to keep using ccBill (which we really want to do!) while relying on a secondary processor for future VISA sales 'just in case'. i'm sure we all want business to continue as smoothly as possible for everyone here, and i feel the most for those webmasters who are both foreign and lacking a current US presence. but please, before slamming us niche operators, just keep in mind, many things (like anal sex for one!) was at one time considered vaguley 'taboo' and 'niche', things change. please clue in your many niche webmasters ccBill, we await w/ bated breath!

10-04-2002, 03:46 PM	#13
Pipecrew Master of Gfy.com Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 14,887	i am curious to what your content is

10-04-2002, 04:08 PM	#15
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	mostly urnination, some staged bondage material too... what i wonder about is, how can VISA check every website by hand? wouldn't this be a massive undertaking, considering the thousands upon thousands of websites out there? is ccBill and the other two large processors going to advise their customers at some point before we start shelling out money towards this new VISA registration process whether we are going to be approved or not? are the processors themselves going to be involved in this 'approval' process?

10-04-2002, 04:28 PM	#16
IanUK Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: UK Posts: 51	There will almost certainly be a time backlog if they do check every site by hand before allowing them. Perhaps they will just rely on complaints I can just imagine it: 'Hey, I don't like my competitors site - I'll just register a free email address and complain about them to Visa' How scary is all this becoming...

10-04-2002, 04:33 PM	#17
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	i guess all we 'niche' guys can do at this point is pay up, hope, and try to play ball... i'm discouraged that noone at ccBill will comment on this matter however, that doesn't sit well w/ me. maybe they don't even know all the details? i find that hard to believe though, considering it has been alluded to that all the processors knew about this shitstorm a long time ago... again, any comment from ccBill to us and others wondering about similar concerns, would be greatly appreciated..!

10-04-2002, 05:03 PM	#18
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	chupacabra I think you are confusing two issues here 1. Issue is Visa not liking the content on your site. Visa tomorrow could decide that they do not like this or that type of content (i.e. lolita or bestiality) and your site is gone world wide. I am not worried about the registration process for our current CCbill clients after our internal reviews. 2. What Clay (Epoch) was trying to say is the same thing that CCbill, Ibill or for that matter any other U.S. IPSP will not be able to register it in two locations in the world. You will be free to still register with two US IPSP (ie Ibill, Epoch, WSB, PSWbilling Etc) You just will not be able to use a foreign and a US company. Example Domain 123.com will be registered with CCbill as owned by John Doe who lives in the Florida. In Visa mind they will enter into their database domain 123.com is US owned. If a foreign IPSP (i.e. as Globill is claiming to now be) Globill would have to register the domain also saying to Visa it is a French owned domain for example. Now Visa will have a conflict and problem. How can we be in compliance with Visa with two separate companies claiming two different owner locations. I am sure the reason Clay (Epoch) responded the way he did is due to the fact that Visa is taking this issue very seriously. Along with the fact we have all seen Visa's email response to Globill claim's. Lets just say Visa does not have the same opinion as Globill. Last time I checked it was still Visa cards we were talking about not Globill cards. Ron C CEO, CCbill.com

10-04-2002, 05:17 PM	#19
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	RonC, thank you very much for your informative reply... that clears up some of my questions in regards to us 'niche' site owners, my main query is still this, are the requirements for content suitability going to change now? and if so, is it only in regards to those of us who choose to continue accepting VISA? what if we decide to "Opt-Out" of the VISA option? in the years that we have done business w/ ccBill, we have never had any of the material that is known to be disallowed by ccBill on our sites, which as far as we know is inclusive of the following: Lolita/Teen media (anything that depicts models as underage) Bestiality in any form Blood-Letting (hard S/M, beatings, etc.) Also, I can proudly mention, that we have never received any notification or warning of excesive chargebacks or refunds on our sites, we give the surfer what is advertised. We have no problem complying w/ the new financial requirements for continuing to process VISA cards, and will happily pay them to continue conducting business, as i mentioned in my initial post ccBill has always treated us right, both w/ service and fast mailing of checks, you guys are easily the best processor we have ever worked w/, bar none. we do not want to move, nor deal w/ having to set up any sort of secondary processor to try to continue to take VISA payments, we are just worried that our particular niches might suddenly, and w/out warning, become unwelcome at ccBill after all this time. thx again for your reply, i think it says a lot about your company that you have personally come to GFY forums to try to answer questions for us webmaster. have a great weekend..!

10-04-2002, 05:26 PM	#20
RonC Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 236	I do not have your account number to review your site to give you a absolute Yes or No on so I will speak in General terms. The only type niche site that I think could be a problem in the future would be Rape. Again this is just a guess. I am not Visa and I do not make the rules.

10-04-2002, 06:52 PM	#22
ClevelandSlim Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 199	lol. exactly. what about this... domain123.com/AMERICAN-hoes/join.html this will be the join page for my american project... but what about my vice president FiFi, my main exec in france with his trusty sony digicam and host of hooker/models that jointly comprise domain123.com/FRENCH-hoes/join.html doesn't that fuckin constitute an "offshore" presence? visa is smarter than this. my friends, this sounds like the handy work of bush administration to me <center><img src="http://www.thickstrippers.com/411/thewaronterror.jpg"></center> __________________ If you have ANY custom content needs, hit me up on icq # 118463907 and we can take care of you.

10-04-2002, 07:21 PM	#26
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	Look out!!! Full on Processor *SMACKDOWN* comin'!!!! __________________ SIG TOO BIG

10-04-2002, 07:37 PM	#28
Mutt Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 34,431	Is an IPSP which resides in America but its merchant accounts are all with foreign banks considered an American IPSP? __________________ I moved my sites to Vacares Hosting. I've saved money, my hair is thicker, lost some weight too! Thanks Sly!

10-04-2002, 08:16 PM	#29
Jon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 2,578	wheres the Visa response to globill thread or letter? __________________ WickedFire.com - Stay here. We don't need more of you. Not unless you have money, then, fine...

10-04-2002, 08:43 PM	#34
steffie Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Mountains, far far away Posts: 2,422	Btw, its great that R. C. is posting here, lots of questions where answered here without pestering your poor salespeople on the phone! I do pity these guys, I have called also and I also worry way to much most of the time! So after my last post I did re-read what R. C. has posted and I must admit I am a moron and now see where he puts down regarding the backup offshore biller. Duh! Still no straight answer regarding niche sites, what flies what dies. It would be nice to know before we pay __________________ Partying since '96 and not going anywhere Anna's Dorm

10-05-2002, 04:39 AM	#35
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	Oh shit. I primary proceess with CCbill on some sites and backup process with Globill on others. I do just the opposite on others. Are you saying that I cannot use ccbill and globill as both a primary and secondary. Some one needs to post this. I saw another thread with the Epoch guy saying this and I thought he was just blowing smoke. I am not going to flush my secondary processor rebills down the toilet. Ron are you saying that Visa actually said that a webmaster can't have a processor in different regions. You said Clay from Epoch said... what are you saying? If I have globill as a primary and you as secondary i will loose my ccbill rebills and on accounts where I have Globill as the secondary I will have to give those up. Are you saying this is contained in correspondance from Visa ? How can i get a copy? __________________ kevinl

10-05-2002, 06:24 AM	#37
ControlThy Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,909	Mr. Cadwell should not refer to any possible VISA emails without disclosing the contents of this email to Mr. Martin. I also believe Mr. Martin is too nice.

10-05-2002, 01:17 PM	#38
kevinl Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: US Posts: 261	bump __________________ kevinl

10-05-2002, 02:33 PM	#39
SunTzu Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: the box Posts: 456	CCBill - why aren't you responding to this? Several of us have CCBill AND GloBill as processors. We need to know if there's a problem with that or not.

10-05-2002, 03:35 PM	#40
Cindyff Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,187	I to would like to know as we have Epoch, Ibill and Globill. Epoch and Globill are first class and we would want to keep processing with both for all our sites, IBILL can crash and burn for all i care. Cindy xxx

10-05-2002, 04:12 PM	#41
Dax Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,161	Epoch - First class????????? After they say: Go ahead switch, but then we dont want you back... in other words: go ahead leave us and fuck you u are fucked if anything happens... Fuck that... I do not think that, that is a example of a first class institution...

10-06-2002, 01:06 PM	#42
chupacabra Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,626	so, is this confirmed and put to bed then... we absolutely cannot keep our existing ccBill accounts and take on Glo-Bill as a secondary processor just in case of disaster further down the road? i would really hate for ccBill to go south on us, w/ no alternative waiting in the wings already...

10-06-2002, 01:26 PM	#44
Brown Bear Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,982	Here is something that you need to avoid: Lets say that you have rebills that will be going through CCBill (which goes through a VISA USA bank) AND You sign-up with Glo-Bill and start getting sales through Glo-Bill (which go through a non-Visa USA bank) The problem here is that you will be processing sales with Visa that are going through two seperate Visa regions. This will no doubt red flag your URL at Visa headquarters, and they will probably add you to the TMF list. To avoid this you should only get sales/rebills from processors that have their merchant banks in the same Visa region (preferably the same country). Visa is comprised of six regional operating organizations: Asia-Pacific; Canada; Central & Eastern Europe, Middle East & Africa (CEMEA); European Union; Latin America & Caribbean; and the United States __________________ Surrender all your independent thinking and Click Here for re-programming.

10-06-2002, 01:43 PM	#47
wonton Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 802	No one has yet pointed out the obvious. If you process with iBill, CCBill and Epoch you ARE in danger of being blacklisted by Visa because the Big3 have to report your URLs, name, SSN# etc to Visa from day one. They also have to report your chargeback %. The day you go over 1% is the day you end up on the Terminated Merchant Blacklist. Supposedly Visa will then ensure that NO OTHER processor at any time in the future takes on your site. You are permanently blacklisted. The offshore processors like Dutchbill, Globill, Verotal do not do any reporting so if they terminate you for high chargebacks, it would be at the billing-level only. You could then go with another 3rd party processor since you are not yet blacklisted. In other words, if you start with the Big3 and get terminated it's game over! If you start with an offshore processor and get terminated you at least get a second chance. But it's still a fucked up situation no matter how you look at it!!

10-06-2002, 02:02 PM	#49
tree Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,601