Alexa isn't the end all, be all...Sites aren't dying. - GoFuckYourself.com

01-16-2008, 09:23 PM

It's no secret that some of the larger sites are dipping in Alexa. Yes, newer sites are surpassing them with their traffic numbers, but it doesn't mean that the traffic to said older sites are dropping. It's just that more and more high volume sites are appearing, thus dropping the ranks of some sites even though the traffic may be the same.

I know people know that Alexa isn't fully accurate, but unless you are seeing where a site stands in relation to the rest of the sites on the web, you can't assume that a rank drop is a traffic drop. Hell..The traffic may be retaining or even increasing, but of course some of the tube sites are entering the market with some serious numbers, pushing everything else down.

The true question is whether or not profits are dropping. From what I've seen with TGP and MGP, the numbers are still looking very similar to the past. You need to realize that tube formats are different, and that TGP and MGP surfers are a bit more set in their ways. Unless that generation of people dies away, those formats should have their surfers built in for quite some time to come.

I know this conversation is getting old, but there are way too many threads popping up with sinking graphs. Please throw your 2 cents in... I'm curious as to what people think about this spin on the great MGP/TGP debacle.

notoldschool · 01-16-2008, 09:40 PM

why use alexa when it doesnt give you real traffic. compete does not lie.

12clicks · 01-16-2008, 09:58 PM

generally, when the less informed can't make a point with $$$, they try to make one with Alexa.

Unified Stats Jim · 01-16-2008, 10:15 PM

Is there some sort of accepted multiplier for compete? I looked at 3 different sites and compared to server stats - 1 site gets more unique visitors in 2 days than compete says it does in a month. Another site gets as many uniques every 5 days as compete says it does monthly and still another receives what compete says it does in a month in 3 days.

At least with Alexa I'm familiar enough with it's bullshit to guess at reality, but compete is off by miles unless there is some accepted multiplier that brings it back into the real world?

will76 · 01-16-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

It's no secret that some of the larger sites are dipping in Alexa. Yes, newer sites are surpassing them with their traffic numbers, but it doesn't mean that the traffic to said older sites are dropping. It's just that more and more high volume sites are appearing, thus dropping the ranks of some sites even though the traffic may be the same.

I know people know that Alexa isn't fully accurate, but unless you are seeing where a site stands in relation to the rest of the sites on the web, you can't assume that a rank drop is a traffic drop. Hell..The traffic may be retaining or even increasing, but of course some of the tube sites are entering the market with some serious numbers, pushing everything else down.

The true question is whether or not profits are dropping. From what I've seen with TGP and MGP, the numbers are still looking very similar to the past. You need to realize that tube formats are different, and that TGP and MGP surfers are a bit more set in their ways. Unless that generation of people dies away, those formats should have their surfers built in for quite some time to come.

I know this conversation is getting old, but there are way too many threads popping up with sinking graphs. Please throw your 2 cents in... I'm curious as to what people think about this spin on the great MGP/TGP debacle.

so you are saying that tons of new people are surfing the net everyday? or more and more everyday. I am sure there are "some" new people getting online everyday but not a huge amount. not now, maybe 8 - 12 years ago. Generally speaking for the most part there is "X" amount of traffic out there if these sites go up, then someone has to go down.... generally speaking.

01-16-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

so you are saying that tons of new people are surfing the net everyday? or more and more everyday. I am sure there are "some" new people getting online everyday but not a huge amount. not now, maybe 8 - 12 years ago. Generally speaking for the most part there is "X" amount of traffic out there if these sites go up, then someone has to go down.... generally speaking.

I'm saying that people are visiting more and more sites daily, now that their friends are showing them random clips, etc. The spread of the viral aspect gets people moving around more and more than ever.

You have people embedding vids on Myspace, facebook, other social networks, etc. The sheer traffic within social networking sites can bring up the volume alone. This probably adds a bit of hit inflation and also makes going viral much easier than it is with a TGP or MGP.

In other words, the viral methods of MGP and TGP stay within those networks. People are more likely to say "look at this video!" than "check out this porn site"...They look less perverted.

To sum it up, yes the tube sites are seeing more and more traffic. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that other sites are dying. I can tell you first hand that I have sites on Alexa that were top 5k, and have dropped to around 7-8k... Oddly enough, my traffic has increased.

People are surfing more than ever, and aren't limiting their days to 1 or 2 sites. attention spans are small, but the 'old dogs, new tricks' adage holds true. Those who surfed MGP and TGP for years, will probably stay in their comfort zone until they are forced to move onward and upwards.

mike-al · 01-16-2008, 11:06 PM

some good points

you should re-read your own post and start utilizing new sites based on your viral marketing thoughts.. you maybe the next traffic fad inventor

We have noticed a huge diversity from pics to moves over the past 18-36-months, This entire scenario is no surprise to us, the only thing we are upset about is alot of these old time classics dont understand anymore and thats where we get scared.... We have age old contracts no longer renewing because they are doing so poor. This sites don't understand why they are not making money on our site no more, while new comers with new technology are converting at 5 times the old... Sad to see relationships like that die.

Just tells you personally, You have to remember that although you might have been a huage success in the past and now a classic, but that doesnt guarantee you a future... Times move and they move fast

d-null · 01-16-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

generally, when the less informed can't make a point with $$$, they try to make one with Alexa.

EXCELLENT post! Alexa is not worthy of any serious conversation about traffic totals.

BOSS1 · 01-16-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-al

some good points

you should re-read your own post and start utilizing new sites based on your viral marketing thoughts.. you maybe the next traffic fad inventor

We have noticed a huge diversity from pics to moves over the past 18-36-months, This entire scenario is no surprise to us, the only thing we are upset about is alot of these old time classics dont understand anymore and thats where we get scared.... We have age old contracts no longer renewing because they are doing so poor. This sites don't understand why they are not making money on our site no more, while new comers with new technology are converting at 5 times the old... Sad to see relationships like that die.

Just tells you personally, You have to remember that although you might have been a huage success in the past and now a classic, but that doesnt guarantee you a future... Times move and they move fast

How can we get some of our galleries/sites on your site?

will76 · 01-16-2008, 11:15 PM

maybe to some extent but over all i think my comments hold true. There is generaly speaking "x" amount of traffic. If more people are ending up on tube sites because of it being viral or in social site networks or whatever, then they get to see lots of porn for free on that tube site. If they see it there why they still going to go to a site like the hun afterwards.. makes no sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

Those who surfed MGP and TGP for years, will probably stay in their comfort zone until they are forced to move onward and upwards.

i think this statement is better said.... they will probably stay on TGP and MGP sites until they find out about tube sites. Thats like saying the guy who gets free hotdogs from the vender on the corner is going to keep eating hotdogs for free after he finds out that the steak house on the corner is giving away filet for free. sure he might be a little cautious to take bite but once he sees the meat is good he is going to ditch the lucky dog stand.

These tube sites are not hitting them up with pop up hell, or viruses or spyware etc... they try it once they hooked. Its not a comfort issue, its the simple fact that they just dont know about these tube sites yet.

will76 · 01-16-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjet

EXCELLENT post! Alexa is not worthy of any serious conversation about traffic totals.

its funny that the person you quoted, his sites are total crap on alexa but i bet he tells people they make major bling bling.

yeah alexa is total crap i am sure google, yahoo and myspace and craigslist, and all of those sites are not really top 50 sites, they probably get much less traffic, silly alexa.

01-16-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

maybe to some extent but over all i think my comments hold true. There is generaly speaking "x" amount of traffic. If more people are ending up on tube sites because of it being viral or in social site networks or whatever, then they get to see lots of porn for free on that tube site. If they see it there why they still going to go to a site like the hun afterwards.. makes no sense.

i think this statement is better said.... they will probably stay on TGP and MGP sites until they find out about tube sites. Thats like saying the guy who gets free hotdogs from the vender on the corner is going to keep eating hotdogs for free after he finds out that the steak house on the corner is giving away filet for free. sure he might be a little cautious to take bite but once he sees the meat is good he is going to ditch the lucky dog stand.

These tube sites are not hitting them up with pop up hell, or viruses or spyware etc... they try it once they hooked. Its not a comfort issue, its the simple fact that they just dont know about these tube sites yet.

We are both right in a sense... I'd say the average surfer visits many more sites daily than he/she did before. While a person may have visited 1 site a day, thousands of websites popup daily and are demanding attention from surfers. Webmasters and just normal people are learning about the power of viral...And that in turn teaches people to surf viral.

However, a bookmark is a bookmark. People may choose MGP's over tubes for varied reasons. Maybe it's because they actually LIKE looking at galleries to find a new paysite to visit because they want quality, and not some grainy flash clip. Maybe they like watching in an external player without having to pass it through a software converter. TGP surfers will continue to enjoy pics without question, as maybe they don't care to surf free porn vids. Maybe they use pics to preview a site, and want the bulk of the content once inside. Maybe their connections just suck and pics are all they can view efficiently. Not every surfer loves strictly movies and not every surfer is on a high speed connection.

Now I'm getting away from my initial point however. Will MGP's and TGP's die? Eventually it probably will slow. This doesn't mean those sites have to let it die though. They can always change formats to adapt, and their built in base will put these sites back at the top once again.

Did the music industry die when mp3's ran rampant? A part of it did, but other avenues opened. Some of the originators benefited, while the stubborn fell behind. I don't see the porn industry as being that much different. A few years this back, we all thought MGP's were the death of the industry. It's been the opposite.

01-16-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike-al

some good points

you should re-read your own post and start utilizing new sites based on your viral marketing thoughts.. you maybe the next traffic fad inventor

We have noticed a huge diversity from pics to moves over the past 18-36-months, This entire scenario is no surprise to us, the only thing we are upset about is alot of these old time classics dont understand anymore and thats where we get scared.... We have age old contracts no longer renewing because they are doing so poor. This sites don't understand why they are not making money on our site no more, while new comers with new technology are converting at 5 times the old... Sad to see relationships like that die.

Just tells you personally, You have to remember that although you might have been a huage success in the past and now a classic, but that doesnt guarantee you a future... Times move and they move fast

Mike.. I'm working on it and diversifying my site portfolio a bit. This old dog is actually learning some new tricks.

It is sad to see people failing to adapt, and falling by the wayside. Hopefully they either stashed away enough to retire, or they will eventually research the new avenues of adult web promotion.

d-null · 01-16-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

yeah alexa is total crap i am sure google, yahoo and myspace and craigslist, and all of those sites are not really top 50 sites, they probably get much less traffic, silly alexa.

gee, alexa must be onto some rocket science to figure those ones out

take 10 of your own sites, look at your own stats, then compare them with how alexa ranks them... I bet that alexa is extremely wrong in the comparisons.... I know I see huge discrepancies between my own

will76 · 01-17-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

We are both right in a sense... I'd say the average surfer visits many more sites daily than he/she did before. While a person may have visited 1 site a day, thousands of websites popup daily and are demanding attention from surfers. Webmasters and just normal people are learning about the power of viral...And that in turn teaches people to surf viral.

Sure some people might hop around looking at different sites but when they find a tube site with that much free content that is where they going to go to in the future when they want free porn. Not a 12 pic gallery or 4 , 30 second videos.

Quote:

However, a bookmark is a bookmark. People may choose MGP's over tubes for varied reasons. Maybe it's because they actually LIKE looking at galleries to find a new paysite to visit because they want quality, and not some grainy flash clip. Maybe they like watching in an external player without having to pass it through a software converter. TGP surfers will continue to enjoy pics without question, as maybe they don't care to surf free porn vids. Maybe they use pics to preview a site, and want the bulk of the content once inside. Maybe their connections just suck and pics are all they can view efficiently. Not every surfer loves strictly movies and not every surfer is on a high speed connection.

maybe they go to the tgp to see what cool new sites are out there, use the 12 pics as a preview then go to the tube site and search for that site

If their connection is so slow that they can only see pics, i don't they are the type to signup to a membership site.

Sure some people might like just pictures over videos but i bet you could count "those" people on 1 hand.

I personally think the people who own tgps are trying to justify this in their heads any way they can so they can make themselves feel better and that everything is fine. Instead, they should be looking the issue right in the eye and doing what they need to ensure they will continue to make money beyond their tgp site. I am a non biased onlooker, i do not own a membership site and I don't own a tgp, but this couldn't be any clearer what is happening here and where things are going.

Quote:

Now I'm getting away from my initial point however. Will MGP's and TGP's die? Eventually it probably will slow. This doesn't mean those sites have to let it die though. They can always change formats to adapt, and their built in base will put these sites back at the top once again.

let me know when they start changing, all i see them doing now is saying their traffic is going up up up and tube sites are just a fad. I don't see them doing shit other then deny what is really happening.

Quote:

Did the music industry die when mp3's ran rampant? A part of it did, but other avenues opened. Some of the originators benefited, while the stubborn fell behind. I don't see the porn industry as being that much different. A few years this back, we all thought MGP's were the death of the industry. It's been the opposite.

Porn industry and music is night and day when it comes to stealing. Not everyone has a computer, you need a computer for 1 to get free music. There is value in buying the music, you get the actual CD, case and insert. You download a full lenth video from a tube site or the site who owns the video, there is 0 difference to you. People buy music as gifts for others, they don't do that with porn. Young kids buy music and might not be online or be savy with download sites. Downloading music is illegal and some people really have been scared off from doing it, others know it is wrong and wont do it. This is not the case with porn, people go to a site and see it is listed... are they going to go to jail for downloading off of megarotic? no. do they even know that the porn on that site is stolen and not put there by the sponsor ? There is several reasons why people still buy music but wouldn't pay for online porn. You can't compare the two.

will76 · 01-17-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetjet

gee, alexa must be onto some rocket science to figure those ones out

take 10 of your own sites, look at your own stats, then compare them with how alexa ranks them... I bet that alexa is extremely wrong in the comparisons.... I know I see huge discrepancies between my own

i think alexa is a good gauge for sites that surfers go to, but can be way off for webmaster sites since a higher % of webmasters have alexa installed.

I don't think it is perfect, for from it. but if alexa ranks a site in top 100 and another site 5,000 i think it is safe to say the one in the top100 gets a lot more traffic then a site ranked 5,000. thats my point.

the Shemp · 01-17-2008, 12:32 AM

if things get bad, i can always go back to my job at Stucky's

V_RocKs · 01-17-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

why use alexa when it doesnt give you real traffic. compete does not lie.

When I match what they say to my server stats it is completely different.

Domain Diva · 01-17-2008, 12:48 AM

alexa is a good indicator as it measures all sites using the same method(as used by tv etc) a sample audience ,thats a simply fact.

01-17-2008, 12:54 AM

i've found that in general, the people making less money are the ones crying about how inaccurate this data is. while the people making more seem to either agree or just don't care.

that data is good enough for me!

01-17-2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

i think alexa is a good gauge for sites that surfers go to, but can be way off for webmaster sites since a higher % of webmasters have alexa installed.

I don't think it is perfect, for from it. but if alexa ranks a site in top 100 and another site 5,000 i think it is safe to say the one in the top100 gets a lot more traffic then a site ranked 5,000. thats my point.

once you start playing in the 5k and under range, the alexa trends start to become more and more accurate. anyone who says otherwise probably doesn't have a site in the top 5k...

01-17-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

Sure some people might hop around looking at different sites but when they find a tube site with that much free content that is where they going to go to in the future when they want free porn. Not a 12 pic gallery or 4 , 30 second videos.

maybe they go to the tgp to see what cool new sites are out there, use the 12 pics as a preview then go to the tube site and search for that site

If their connection is so slow that they can only see pics, i don't they are the type to signup to a membership site.

Sure some people might like just pictures over videos but i bet you could count "those" people on 1 hand.

I personally think the people who own tgps are trying to justify this in their heads any way they can so they can make themselves feel better and that everything is fine. Instead, they should be looking the issue right in the eye and doing what they need to ensure they will continue to make money beyond their tgp site. I am a non biased onlooker, i do not own a membership site and I don't own a tgp, but this couldn't be any clearer what is happening here and where things are going.

let me know when they start changing, all i see them doing now is saying their traffic is going up up up and tube sites are just a fad. I don't see them doing shit other then deny what is really happening.

Porn industry and music is night and day when it comes to stealing. Not everyone has a computer, you need a computer for 1 to get free music. There is value in buying the music, you get the actual CD, case and insert. You download a full lenth video from a tube site or the site who owns the video, there is 0 difference to you. People buy music as gifts for others, they don't do that with porn. Young kids buy music and might not be online or be savy with download sites. Downloading music is illegal and some people really have been scared off from doing it, others know it is wrong and wont do it. This is not the case with porn, people go to a site and see it is listed... are they going to go to jail for downloading off of megarotic? no. do they even know that the porn on that site is stolen and not put there by the sponsor ? There is several reasons why people still buy music but wouldn't pay for online porn. You can't compare the two.

We're going back and forth with something that this thread isn't about. I know you're opposed to torrents, and nothing will change your mind. I can however say (considering I work with a decent amount of paying members daily), that quite a few people actually join JUST for pictures. Maybe you can count it on 1 hand daily, but it's a decent sum when you can count them on 1 hand everyday for a year.

My point is that the sky is not falling and that sites are dropping due to the traffic being spread around to many more sites. Those who want to adapt, will...And they will be in on the ground floor and they will be the ones on top in a few years. Those who are established previously will either adapt, or do their best to keep their core base loyal.

Also, saying that you cannot compare online porn to music is a bit of a stretch. You are talking about a tangible product, but a paysite membership is somewhat close, and much more than a freebie surfer can see. On 1 hand you have shitty flash streams, and on another you have HD videos that can be downloaded and watched on a 62 inch HDTV. Those who want a tangible product can get one by joining a quality member site.

NinjaSteve · 01-17-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

if things get bad, i can always go back to my job at Stucky's

What is Stucky's? A strip club I hope.

the Shemp · 01-17-2008, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaSteve

What is Stucky's? A strip club I hope.

no, its a nut shop on the highway... http://www.stuckeys.com

BlackCrayon · 01-17-2008, 05:58 AM

So you're saying people are visiting both tube and the tgp and mpg sites? What reason would they have to keep looking at tgp/mpg sites when all they have to do is type what they want into the search on the tube sites and get it all? The only hope to keep people intrested in the old methods is that the tube model isn't profitable. And as for "adapting" and going the tube route...if people were responsible and only allowed certain length movies and such, even then the submitter no longer has a job as surfer joe is doing that job for them and there will only ever be a handful of these big tube sites. Unlike mpg's where they keep circle jerking the traffic around tube sites have no reason to do this because people just keep coming anyways.

TheSenator · 01-17-2008, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

maybe to some extent but over all i think my comments hold true. There is generaly speaking "x" amount of traffic. If more people are ending up on tube sites because of it being viral or in social site networks or whatever, then they get to see lots of porn for free on that tube site. If they see it there why they still going to go to a site like the hun afterwards.. makes no sense.

i think this statement is better said.... they will probably stay on TGP and MGP sites until they find out about tube sites. Thats like saying the guy who gets free hotdogs from the vender on the corner is going to keep eating hotdogs for free after he finds out that the steak house on the corner is giving away filet for free. sure he might be a little cautious to take bite but once he sees the meat is good he is going to ditch the lucky dog stand.

These tube sites are not hitting them up with pop up hell, or viruses or spyware etc... they try it once they hooked. Its not a comfort issue, its the simple fact that they just dont know about these tube sites yet.

That is the way I see it too.

Why keep eating free hot dogs, when you can get steaks for free.

01-17-2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

So you're saying people are visiting both tube and the tgp and mpg sites? What reason would they have to keep looking at tgp/mpg sites when all they have to do is type what they want into the search on the tube sites and get it all? The only hope to keep people intrested in the old methods is that the tube model isn't profitable. And as for "adapting" and going the tube route...if people were responsible and only allowed certain length movies and such, even then the submitter no longer has a job as surfer joe is doing that job for them and there will only ever be a handful of these big tube sites. Unlike mpg's where they keep circle jerking the traffic around tube sites have no reason to do this because people just keep coming anyways.

Pasting once again:
People may choose MGP's over tubes for varied reasons. Maybe it's because they actually LIKE looking at galleries to find a new paysite to visit because they want quality, and not some grainy flash clip. Maybe they like watching in an external player without having to pass it through a software converter. TGP surfers will continue to enjoy pics without question, as maybe they don't care to surf free porn vids. Maybe they use pics to preview a site, and want the bulk of the content once inside. Maybe their connections just suck and pics are all they can view efficiently. Not every surfer loves strictly movies and not every surfer is on a high speed connection.
---------

As far as everybody making tubes and the traffic model changing... Current bandwidth prices don't make it possible for joe schmoe to enter the market and expand without worries of going broke with bw overages. Sure there are ways around it with hotlinking, etc...but surfers have and always will be able to tell a quality site vs. a cookie cutter.

Also, keep in mind that the person that wanted free porn to begin with (and that used to get it on MGP's and TGP's), will still avoid paying for it by these new methods. The buyers that had wanted to purchase memberships before will still be doing so. This will not change, unless the tube is nothing but stolen shit without linkbacks.

A tube is no replacement for a high quality membership site, and surfers who want quality will always know this. It seems like the people with the most fear of the market change seem to be people who don't own TGP's, MGP's or their own high traffic networks, but those who rely heavilly on submitting MGP and TGP galleries. I can see how this would be intimidating...gallery submitting is a decent part of my income as well, but diversification and adaption is key if you don't want to be the fat that is trimmed away.

Anyways, I digress... Back on topic! Does everybody seem to believe that dropping Alexa rankings are in fact due to dropping traffic, or is there just a larger traffic pool than before due to the rise in viral marketing?

rowan · 01-17-2008, 07:25 AM

Alexa and all other statistics services will always be inaccurate for smaller sites because the sample is smaller. They look through a relatively small window at what people are surfing and extrapolate the data.

Also, who compares sites on RANK any more? The reach and page views stats have been available for at least a couple of years...

GUNNER · 01-17-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

Anyways, I digress... Back on topic! Does everybody seem to believe that dropping Alexa rankings are in fact due to dropping traffic, or is there just a larger traffic pool than before due to the rise in viral marketing?

Yes to both. Which means Alexa rankings are maybe less important, but still a factor worthy of consideration overall.

BlackCrayon · 01-17-2008, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

Pasting once again:
People may choose MGP's over tubes for varied reasons. Maybe it's because they actually LIKE looking at galleries to find a new paysite to visit because they want quality, and not some grainy flash clip. Maybe they like watching in an external player without having to pass it through a software converter. TGP surfers will continue to enjoy pics without question, as maybe they don't care to surf free porn vids. Maybe they use pics to preview a site, and want the bulk of the content once inside. Maybe their connections just suck and pics are all they can view efficiently. Not every surfer loves strictly movies and not every surfer is on a high speed connection.
---------

As far as everybody making tubes and the traffic model changing... Current bandwidth prices don't make it possible for joe schmoe to enter the market and expand without worries of going broke with bw overages. Sure there are ways around it with hotlinking, etc...but surfers have and always will be able to tell a quality site vs. a cookie cutter.

Also, keep in mind that the person that wanted free porn to begin with (and that used to get it on MGP's and TGP's), will still avoid paying for it by these new methods. The buyers that had wanted to purchase memberships before will still be doing so. This will not change, unless the tube is nothing but stolen shit without linkbacks.

A tube is no replacement for a high quality membership site, and surfers who want quality will always know this. It seems like the people with the most fear of the market change seem to be people who don't own TGP's, MGP's or their own high traffic networks, but those who rely heavilly on submitting MGP and TGP galleries. I can see how this would be intimidating...gallery submitting is a decent part of my income as well, but diversification and adaption is key if you don't want to be the fat that is trimmed away.

Anyways, I digress... Back on topic! Does everybody seem to believe that dropping Alexa rankings are in fact due to dropping traffic, or is there just a larger traffic pool than before due to the rise in viral marketing?

You make some good points. I went to one of those tube sites for the first time a week ago and was surprised at how crappy it was. Still better than mpg sites in terms of what they give away but still crappy compared to quality full length rips.

No matter what someones opinions are on tube sites there is no denying that they are currently the biggest porn sites online and that is not something to just try and brush off.

The real advantage they have over quality membership sites is variety. Someone can view a few clips from facial abuse, then some playboy vids all on the same site, all for free. Of course mpg's offer variety too but not at the length tube sites do, and i sure as hell hope mpgs don't think they can adapt by demanding their submitters to submit longer movie clips. That will just make things even worse. The more people feel entitled to free porn, the less will buy, in my opinion. And it doesn't help that so many people, especially the younger generation feels only losers pay for porn.

d-null · 01-17-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire.XXXBiz TV

alexa is a good indicator as it measures all sites using the same method(as used by tv etc) a sample audience ,thats a simply fact.

no, the "sample audience" that they are polling is much further away from random then would be acceptable to make their data useful for anything

alexa bases its "polling" on users that have chosen specifically to install the alexa toolbar, they do not have anywhere close to a sampling of typical internet users in their data

12clicks · 01-17-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

its funny that the person you quoted, his sites are total crap on alexa but i bet he tells people they make major bling bling.

see my first post.

12clicks · 01-17-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

i think alexa is a good gauge for sites that surfers go to, but can be way off for webmaster sites since a higher % of webmasters have alexa installed.

I don't think it is perfect, for from it. but if alexa ranks a site in top 100 and another site 5,000 i think it is safe to say the one in the top100 gets a lot more traffic then a site ranked 5,000. thats my point.

Billy, my opinion is partially based on my experience owning an Alexa top 200 site.

besides your ass, where else does your opinion come from?

will76 · 01-17-2008, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shermsshack

We're going back and forth with something that this thread isn't about. I know you're opposed to torrents, and nothing will change your mind. I can however say (considering I work with a decent amount of paying members daily), that quite a few people actually join JUST for pictures. Maybe you can count it on 1 hand daily, but it's a decent sum when you can count them on 1 hand everyday for a year.

.

Ok, lets say that 10% of your sales are from people who just want to look at pictures and dont care about videos. I think that is being way to generous but we can use 1 out of 10 for the sake of arguing. Can you opperate your site and cover your expenses and make a profit if you lost 90% of your sales ???

Seriously who cares if you can count the sales on 1 hand, and 1 hand a day can add up over the course of the year if that doesn't amount to enough money to allow your business to opperate.

think people. think.

How much profit do you make on a membership site? 20% (again for arguments sake), thats what you can afford to lose. if you lose more than that then your business starts losing money and not making money. You don't need to lose 100% of your business because of stolen content on tube sites or because of spyware. You just need to lose 20% of your business to them and you are fucked.

notoldschool · 01-17-2008, 11:41 AM

I have 4 paysites in the top 5000 and alexa is very wrong. Compete is pretty much accurate on all sites I have checked. Alexa still ranks old school sites higher despite the fact they dont get nearly as much traffic. The guys who say Alexa is right and Compete is wrong are dont have sites to gauge by. Period.

notoldschool · 01-17-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Billy, my opinion is partially based on my experience owning an Alexa top 200 site.

besides your ass, where else does your opinion come from?

Its not too hard for alexa to tell you who the top 200 sites in the world are because of the massive amounts of traffic, but anything after that is totally fucked. Its never been correct on any of my domains. But like others say if your worried about what alexa says you dont have much anyways.

12clicks · 01-17-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Its not too hard for alexa to tell you who the top 200 sites in the world are because of the massive amounts of traffic, but anything after that is totally fucked. Its never been correct on any of my domains. But like others say if your worried about what alexa says you dont have much anyways.

yes, the "others" you speak of would be me.

webgurl · 01-17-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

if things get bad, i can always go back to my job at Stucky's

maybe you can hook me up with a job there too

teomaxxx · 01-17-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teomaxxx

you can rather watch exact numbers on sextracker page, see here:
http://ranks.sextracker.com/spn.html...se&pg=0-0.html

The traffic on the biggest TGP sites is going down really fast, some of them are down almost 50% from the tops (WorldSex, AL4a, Sleazydream), thehun is down around 25% of two years ago. If they had only decrease a price of spots too....

I watch them regulary, since I buy spots on some of these sites.
see my stats regulary updated numbers at end of that topic.
http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=710918

will76 · 01-17-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teomaxxx

The traffic on the biggest TGP sites is going down really fast, some of them are down almost 50% from the tops (WorldSex, AL4a, Sleazydream), thehun is down around 25% of two years ago. If they had only decrease a price of spots too....

See thats the thing right there.... TGPs sell ad spots. What TGP is going to say, yes alexa is correct our traffic is declining. It would affect who wants to buy advertising from them since you are not paying per the click. They would have to reduce the amount of their ad spots if people see their traffic is dieing. I guess the best way for them to reply to this is that tube sites don't affect them, their traffic is really going up each month, and alexa is shit.

For Sponsors, what sponsor wants to admit that very few people promote them. If they have an alexa rank of 1 million, ofcourse they are going to tell us alexa is shit, because a rank of 1 million probably means 50 people a day or less are hitting their site. Doesn't make their program look to popular.

notoldschool · 01-17-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

For Sponsors, what sponsor wants to admit that very few people promote them. If they have an alexa rank of 1 million, ofcourse they are going to tell us alexa is shit, because a rank of 1 million probably means 50 people a day or less are hitting their site. Doesn't make their program look to popular.

If your a sponser and have a paysite that ranks in the millions or even the high hundreds of thousands then you should not have a program.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

yes, the "others" you speak of would be me.

Yeah sorry i didnt give you a shout out. I actually started adding some of your sites to some of my projects for the future, but please dont tell me to fuck off or something because I hate wasting time taking down links from shit ive allready done.

TheDoc · 01-17-2008, 12:43 PM

Of course Alexa rankings are dropping for Adult Sites.. Less American/Canadian/UK/AU use Alexa than ever. Alexa's plugin is used heavy in the Asian markets and Webmasters.

The counter market is getting hit because of all the no-script / script block tools that come with virus protection packages, plugins, ect these days. No 3rd party counter / javascript works on my machine. This is getting stronger has FF takes more ground too.

For every 1 person with enough bandwidth to continually watch tube movies you have 10 that don't have enough bandwidth to wait for one to buffer. Picture TGP's are still popular, MPG's didn't replace them, and Tubes aren't going to replace them either.

You have a higher chance of the recession killing broadband connections than Tubes being any reason why traffic/sales have dropped.

notoldschool · 01-17-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Of course Alexa rankings are dropping for Adult Sites.. Less American/Canadian/UK/AU use Alexa than ever. Alexa's plugin is used heavy in the Asian markets and Webmasters.

The counter market is getting hit because of all the no-script / script block tools that come with virus protection packages, plugins, ect these days. No 3rd party counter / javascript works on my machine. This is getting stronger has FF takes more ground too.

For every 1 person with enough bandwidth to continually watch tube movies you have 10 that don't have enough bandwidth to wait for one to buffer. Picture TGP's are still popular, MPG's didn't replace them, and Tubes aren't going to replace them either.

You have a higher chance of the recession killing broadband connections than Tubes being any reason why traffic/sales have dropped.

Interesting thoughts.

12clicks · 01-17-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notoldschool

Yeah sorry i didnt give you a shout out. I actually started adding some of your sites to some of my projects for the future, but please dont tell me to fuck off or something because I hate wasting time taking down links from shit ive allready done.

hahaha. no. just making sure we were on the same side of the argument.

georgeyw · 01-17-2008, 01:35 PM

What really surprises me here is that no one has mentioned video quality.

Potentials signups will watch videos at one of these tube sites and either belt off to the pixelated videos or want for something more. Let's face it the video quality on these tube sites isn't all that great, especially when everything is advertised as HD this and HD that these days.

Also for the everyday joe, they're not going to know how to download an offline copy of the video.

Tube sites might be the new tgp/mgp, but I don't think the likes of mgp and tgp are dead. People still want quality even(i'd go as far as saying *especially*) in their porn, alot of people tend to overlook this when yabbering on about tube sites.

the Shemp · 01-17-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webgurl

maybe you can hook me up with a job there too

no problem, who wouldnt want to work at a nut stand on the side of the highway.. ;)

DavieVegas · 01-17-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Shemp

no problem, who wouldnt want to work at a nut stand on the side of the highway.. ;)

LOL.........Shemp u crack me up

the Shemp · 01-17-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavieVegas

LOL.........Shemp u crack me up

Davie, do you know if Stuckeys has franchises available...?
i think a lot of webmasters would like a nut shop on the side of the highway...

01-17-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeyw

What really surprises me here is that no one has mentioned video quality.

Potentials signups will watch videos at one of these tube sites and either belt off to the pixelated videos or want for something more. Let's face it the video quality on these tube sites isn't all that great, especially when everything is advertised as HD this and HD that these days.

Also for the everyday joe, they're not going to know how to download an offline copy of the video.

Tube sites might be the new tgp/mgp, but I don't think the likes of mgp and tgp are dead. People still want quality even(i'd go as far as saying *especially*) in their porn, alot of people tend to overlook this when yabbering on about tube sites.

I've been mentioning it in all my posts

madfuck · 01-17-2008, 03:43 PM

bump.....

01-16-2008, 09:23 PM	#1
shermo Guest Posts: n/a	Alexa isn't the end all, be all...Sites aren't dying. It's no secret that some of the larger sites are dipping in Alexa. Yes, newer sites are surpassing them with their traffic numbers, but it doesn't mean that the traffic to said older sites are dropping. It's just that more and more high volume sites are appearing, thus dropping the ranks of some sites even though the traffic may be the same. I know people know that Alexa isn't fully accurate, but unless you are seeing where a site stands in relation to the rest of the sites on the web, you can't assume that a rank drop is a traffic drop. Hell..The traffic may be retaining or even increasing, but of course some of the tube sites are entering the market with some serious numbers, pushing everything else down. The true question is whether or not profits are dropping. From what I've seen with TGP and MGP, the numbers are still looking very similar to the past. You need to realize that tube formats are different, and that TGP and MGP surfers are a bit more set in their ways. Unless that generation of people dies away, those formats should have their surfers built in for quite some time to come. I know this conversation is getting old, but there are way too many threads popping up with sinking graphs. Please throw your 2 cents in... I'm curious as to what people think about this spin on the great MGP/TGP debacle.

01-16-2008, 09:40 PM	#2
notoldschool Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,687	why use alexa when it doesnt give you real traffic. compete does not lie. __________________ No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture. -- Learned Hand http://www.bjpenn.com

01-16-2008, 09:58 PM	#3
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,797	generally, when the less informed can't make a point with $$$, they try to make one with Alexa. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

01-16-2008, 11:06 PM	#7
mike-al Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 691	some good points you should re-read your own post and start utilizing new sites based on your viral marketing thoughts.. you maybe the next traffic fad inventor We have noticed a huge diversity from pics to moves over the past 18-36-months, This entire scenario is no surprise to us, the only thing we are upset about is alot of these old time classics dont understand anymore and thats where we get scared.... We have age old contracts no longer renewing because they are doing so poor. This sites don't understand why they are not making money on our site no more, while new comers with new technology are converting at 5 times the old... Sad to see relationships like that die. Just tells you personally, You have to remember that although you might have been a huage success in the past and now a classic, but that doesnt guarantee you a future... Times move and they move fast __________________ Delete this account, i am done here

01-17-2008, 12:32 AM	#17
the Shemp congrats to the winners Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Echo Beach Posts: 10,891	if things get bad, i can always go back to my job at Stucky's __________________ i use Vacares...so should you Submit your picture galleries to my site...Outlaw TGP

01-16-2008, 10:15 PM	#4
Unified Stats Jim Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5	Is there some sort of accepted multiplier for compete? I looked at 3 different sites and compared to server stats - 1 site gets more unique visitors in 2 days than compete says it does in a month. Another site gets as many uniques every 5 days as compete says it does monthly and still another receives what compete says it does in a month in 3 days. At least with Alexa I'm familiar enough with it's bullshit to guess at reality, but compete is off by miles unless there is some accepted multiplier that brings it back into the real world?

01-17-2008, 12:48 AM	#19
Domain Diva Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: UK/USA/Canada ICQ : 494318698 Email:[email protected] Posts: 10,180	alexa is a good indicator as it measures all sites using the same method(as used by tv etc) a sample audience ,thats a simply fact. __________________ Cams-Tube-Dating Domains Available At Trade Prices ! Domains For Sale ICQ:494318698

01-17-2008, 12:54 AM	#20
esnem Guest Posts: n/a	i've found that in general, the people making less money are the ones crying about how inaccurate this data is. while the people making more seem to either agree or just don't care. that data is good enough for me!

01-17-2008, 05:58 AM	#25
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	So you're saying people are visiting both tube and the tgp and mpg sites? What reason would they have to keep looking at tgp/mpg sites when all they have to do is type what they want into the search on the tube sites and get it all? The only hope to keep people intrested in the old methods is that the tube model isn't profitable. And as for "adapting" and going the tube route...if people were responsible and only allowed certain length movies and such, even then the submitter no longer has a job as surfer joe is doing that job for them and there will only ever be a handful of these big tube sites. Unlike mpg's where they keep circle jerking the traffic around tube sites have no reason to do this because people just keep coming anyways. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

01-17-2008, 07:25 AM	#28
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Alexa and all other statistics services will always be inaccurate for smaller sites because the sample is smaller. They look through a relatively small window at what people are surfing and extrapolate the data. Also, who compares sites on RANK any more? The reach and page views stats have been available for at least a couple of years...

01-17-2008, 11:41 AM	#35
notoldschool Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,687	I have 4 paysites in the top 5000 and alexa is very wrong. Compete is pretty much accurate on all sites I have checked. Alexa still ranks old school sites higher despite the fact they dont get nearly as much traffic. The guys who say Alexa is right and Compete is wrong are dont have sites to gauge by. Period. __________________ No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture. -- Learned Hand http://www.bjpenn.com

01-17-2008, 12:43 PM	#42
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Of course Alexa rankings are dropping for Adult Sites.. Less American/Canadian/UK/AU use Alexa than ever. Alexa's plugin is used heavy in the Asian markets and Webmasters. The counter market is getting hit because of all the no-script / script block tools that come with virus protection packages, plugins, ect these days. No 3rd party counter / javascript works on my machine. This is getting stronger has FF takes more ground too. For every 1 person with enough bandwidth to continually watch tube movies you have 10 that don't have enough bandwidth to wait for one to buffer. Picture TGP's are still popular, MPG's didn't replace them, and Tubes aren't going to replace them either. You have a higher chance of the recession killing broadband connections than Tubes being any reason why traffic/sales have dropped. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

01-17-2008, 01:35 PM	#45
georgeyw 58008 53773 Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 9,864	What really surprises me here is that no one has mentioned video quality. Potentials signups will watch videos at one of these tube sites and either belt off to the pixelated videos or want for something more. Let's face it the video quality on these tube sites isn't all that great, especially when everything is advertised as HD this and HD that these days. Also for the everyday joe, they're not going to know how to download an offline copy of the video. Tube sites might be the new tgp/mgp, but I don't think the likes of mgp and tgp are dead. People still want quality even(i'd go as far as saying especially) in their porn, alot of people tend to overlook this when yabbering on about tube sites. __________________ TripleXPrint on Megan Fox "I would STILL suck her pussy until her face caved in. And then blow her up and do it again!"

01-17-2008, 03:43 PM	#50
madfuck Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,032	bump.....