hunnert threats

and can somebody please explain what the hell happened to 2257 regulations?
why they are not applicable to tube sites?
of late every tom dick harry and their dog(s) have started tube sites as they cost less than 50 bucks to start. They make their pennies everyday while industry is about to die off

They are, tubes are no exception, but content thieves usually don't incorporate in the US...well, at least not officially. They know very well that their business is shady.

but still are servers are located in US though

So are you agreeing that a PPV, iTunes-like (possibly without the need to download an application) model is the future?

It seems that GEXO.com is doing a good job at redirecting their tube traffic to the pay-sites using sponsor content + relevant affiliate banners. I think that as more and more tube sites realize that the staggering bandwidth costs totally destroy their weak advertisement-based profit models, they will have to try harder to develop relationships with the content providers to earn their buck.

About to die off you say? Don't you mean your sales are not as good as what they once were? So lets blame the tube sites, we need to blame someone and they are an easy target.

my sales are actually about 18% better year over year
but with due respect sir, that is NOT beacuse tube sites are such a big help :321GFY

So if your making 18% more sales, why did you say the industry is about to die off. I don't understand your logic. Please explaine.

Your joking right?

Rui, I can only asume if he's making more money then business is good. How can it about to die off?

If I make 1,000,000 last year and 1,180,000 this year -- business is good.

While one half of the industry was trying to bring it down completely the other half was screaming it is too easy to publish porn. Anyone see the irony?

If that's what the surfers demand yes it's the future.

For about a decade we have run the industry to suit us and not the consumer. We could do it while there was no alternative. Now people have seen the gap in our marketing and exploiting it.

If you ignore the consumers needs don't be surprised if you lose him.

I wonder what the profit is in giving surfers access to the paysite for $1 a day. They pay there dollar and get a day, if they like it they come back when it suits them, if they don't like it they won't come back.

There would be a limit on downloading, but in truth few download a lot. They're too busy jerking off.

Actually I have to say this has been one fo the most interesting threads I have read thus far and it certainly raises some pertinent questions. I will admit that as small as my business is in comparison to some of you big guns out there....I have noticed a shift in the money. Tube sites have both benefited me and hurt me...very hard for me to tell whether or not I am in an advantageous position because of the fact that they exist and yes they are successful. I will say that as a business owner, regardless of the business you run, you will always be faced with the fact that it is your responsibility to always be evolving in an everchanging society...it doesn't matter what you sell. Year after year, you will always need to change something. The object of the game is to see if you can recreate yourself over and over to stay ahead of the game or do you let change swallow you whole.

After Tube sites will be another reason that money will move in a different circle...can we as professionals handle the change, adapt and perhaps swing it in our favour? Hence the cycle continues....


Cleopatra of the Nile

Great comment.

There are those who thing the train should stop where it is though, so they don't get thrown off.

of course it hurts the online porn industry. What can we do??? That is the million dollar question.

I'm going to go out on a lim here and say this.

From what it says on smart-scripts.com site


8000 SITES running tgp/mpg sites with over 70,000,000 clicks each day.

around 10 to 20 Tube sites running with around 1,000,000 people per day.

If anything is hurting the industry its the number of tgp/mpg sites. Tube sites are still very new and have a extremely low percentage of the porn market.

BTW - Im not saying TGPS are bad just because a few have trojans/zango added on them. Just like im not saying TUBE sites are bad because a few give away more then they should.

No that's the $10 question.

What WILL we do is the million dollar question.

The $1 answer is, put a thread on GFY. :1orglaugh

Not really, imagine he had to spend a lot more resources, time and overall money in order to achieve gains, that he was "used" to see before?

Just because he made more doesn't mean things are good, just that he bust his ass, worked harder and smarter. :winkwink:

You cant just look at the "final score" and ignore how it was achieved and how much it means compared to previous "wins"...

Just my :2 cents:

Thanks, guessing You saw the point I was trying to make, haven't seen anyone bring any argument for or against it.

If things would pan out the way I'm thinking, there can't be any complaining really.

The point was that we have always had an amount of freeloaders in our traffic, diluting the traffic quality and thus worsening our ratios...
If Tubes come along and attract *that* specific "clientele", *our* ratios will improve - yet with pretty much the same amount of joins!

(Of course; not that there's any significant win in that, now that bandwidth cost isn't much of an issue anymore for those of us who push "light" media,
like pictures + occasional movies).

Basically, I'm fairly convinced most joins nowadays come from people who won't join the freeloader group, for more reasons than the one.


Excellent points :)
I agree with You and Paul Markham a lot here.

One step the industry could take to keep things going smoothly for everyone, from big programs to smaller affiliates, could be to gradually lower the price for site memberships ALONG WITH membership length.

2 weeks access for $15-20, 1 week access for $10 and keep 1-3 days access at around $5.

I'm sure many affiliates thinks this sounds ridiculous, or dangerous.. and will until they see their amount of joins increase instead! :2 cents:

I just can't comprehend how many people are under the impression that these new tube sites, which are now offering HOURS of FREE content in ALL niche catagories are fine for business.

I hope I'm wrong, as I will be introducing new sites soon myself.

I guess time will tell, but my bet is we see a lot of adult profit drop off in 2008.

I am not entirely sure they are fine for business but the point to using a site that accesses millions of people quickly should be used as a portal to find paying clientele to divert to a pay site. What I put out on tube sites contains no nudity but is used as a teaser to bring them to join my site. Now I could have gone the route of throwing out there obscene amounts of footage to compete with others but my policy is if you want to see more....you pay:)
it may not always bring me the business I desire but we have to think as business individuals...do what is right for your business regardless of what the majority are doing. I will give you an example...this doesn't hold true in all cases but it is something I have witnessed. The DVD industry...when companies would get into a price battle at shows to sell more DVD's...people were selling them at one time for $20 a piece and customers bought them. Then a price war began, 2 for $20, then 3 for $10, then 5 for $10, I have even seen them as low as $1 a piece, after that came FREE PORN FOR EVERYONE! ALL companies lost money. I didn't compete with that but I sold only a few at my regular price and took my product home. Everyone else had virtually no more product but no money either:) I would rather be in my position so I can rethink my business and find another way to make my money on my product:)
I see similarities here....free footage on the internet takes sales away but if you find a way to work these angles to bring you business, you may salvage enough to do well. You need to keep reinventing who you are, expand and diversify. Use the tubes to provide you with a great marketing angle so that the footage you do release up there can have a little twist to it and because it is different...curiosity will kill the cat...You will get your paying customers still.

Maybe I am wrong but giving the cow away for free in order to sell the milk doesn't work either we all know that

Cleopatra of the Nile

Good for sites like AFF and Fling... as for paysites should be interesting to see how everyone adapts IMO.

I truly agree with you:thumbsup

Very nice comments Cleopatra. Measured, upbeat, and intelligent response to the issue. Hopefully logic will prevail.

Ratios were shittier but he worked double as hard or triple?

Get it now? :winkwink:

Work smarter, not harder. He's doing something wrong. :winkwink:

there should be no reason why the 2257 doesn't apply to everyone using nude material in any format on any medium but as I am sure you are aware. It has only been severely enforced in the Porn Valley where it is knowingly evident that porn is shot at certain locations.

It is very unfair that because legitimate companies shooting porn make it very well known and adhere to regulations such as these, law enforcement is likely to come down harder on the companies who have already legitimised themselves. Seen it happen too many times.

Too many people get away with it if the tube site isn't labelled as a porn site, then you will see that it is less likely expected to list custodian of records nor have the 2257 disclaimer available. Don't know how many tube sites this applies to....I haven't seen them all only a few.

well thank you my friend... I do try :)

We recently put in a 3 day trial, joins sky rocketed by a factor of 10 yes it was that much. The amazing thing was the number of people who join for 3 days and immediately cancel. They only want 3 days and not going to take more. Affiliates can stick to only selling $30 joins, but they will be the losers.

Rebills have climbed so I can see the traffic is falling into different categories. (A) The guys who join for the 30 day membership had dipped a bit, (B) Rebills have climbed very steady and now make up most of the income, (C) the big number who want 3 days and not going to join for

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. In the future this will read "You can send traffic to a site but you can't make them join."

The only reason you're losing sales to Tube sites is Tube sites are appealing more to the surfers than paysites. What paysites have to do is win back the surfer. Closing Tube sites is not an option.

There is something that everyone in this thread seem to miss.
How do adult tube sites make money?

They make money by sending sales to paysites.
If you are a paysite owner, you make money from tube sites.
If you are an affiliate, you get screwed.

Same old.

Remember, the tube sites are no there to distribute free porn. Their primary and only goal is to make money.

My humble opinion is that in a way we should thank to all the free forms of adult sites because :

-they filter people by age and country origin (14-20 years are no real money value to the paysites;China ,India ,countries that just started to discover the full potential of internet stop in these websites and eat their bandwith)

-they educate people about porn and they help them to discover their inner secret niche (Untill 23-25years ,maybe even more , a person is not fully sexually matured if he doesen't have lots of sexual experiences;Getting online and seeing all kind of things for free ,they discover that they like a niche more then other and they start digging for the origin of that niche)

-they increase the masturbation time ( you see now 5 minutes of this , tommorow 10 minutes of something else and so on untill ,to get off ,you will need something really specific)

As a conclusion i think that in the end , as someone stated before , the future belongs to focused niche paysites and if you have a general type of porn to put it "out of the box" type like bigsausagepizza.com .I m sure many of us remeber of it and what I know fo sure is that they made a ton of cash with what ?simple , normal girls and a few big cocks in a damn pizza.

As a final conclusion ,i consider that it would be far away better without them ,but at least look at the bright side .On the long run content producers are the winners and if you don't win from this ,it only means that you don't know how to market your shit .Be agressive, don't let the webmasters promote flawless movies (no marketing like a tshirt or a banner etc), and verify all the time who's using your content.

Cheers and if you don't agree with me be gentle and come with logical arguments...

bump :winkwink:

A very positive post. Thanks.

I think you might have a very good point as well. Rather than sitting and moaning about Tube sites and how they are stealing our business we need to be looking at how we use them in a constructive manner.

What we have to do is make sure we offer a viable alternative to Tube sites. They are restricted by the quality and speed of video they can deliver. They also tend to be a mix of anything people will upload and often very short.

So can we sell to a Tube surfer? It's not will he buy, it's can we sell. He will and has to buy something from them to pay for their existence.

Over the past few weeks I have been bookmarking every tube site I have seen that offers videos over 5 minutes in length. Without much effort at all I now have nearly a dozen such sites favorited, and whenever I feel the need to "rub one out" guess how much I pay?

I won't list the url's, as I don't care to assisit in advertising these sites, but I am very certain I am not alone in my discoveries.

To be fair, as a webmaster myself I don't really spend much on porn anyway (other than production and hosting costs, etc.) but I did start this thread based upon my own experience with tube sites.

If I can find lengthy free porn in ANY niche I am in the mood for, without much effort at all, then I am sure I am not alone...

If there was a way to monetize tube sites, vivid would have snatched it for the lousy $20 million that they (and other companies) were offered for youporn.

Yeah, I read that artcle too. It seemed like the Vivid guys couldn't figure out the business sense behind the free tube sites either, so at least I'm not totally alone on this.

How are your sales doing today guys? 2008 starting out with a bang?

January started VERY slow.. but it's getting better by the day.. today - average

fucking tube sites :winkwink::1orglaugh

i second that! :thumbsup

Yeah, adapt to free porn for all surfers, or get the fuck out out of the biz!

Brilliant statement! Reminds me of the Underpants Gnomes on South Park.

The Underpants Gnomes are a community of underground gnomes who steal underpants, notably from Tweek.

The Underpants gnomes have a three-phase business plan, consisting of:

1. Collect Underpants
2. ha?
3. Profit

None of the gnomes actually know what the second phase is, and all of them assume that someone else within the organization does.

The new 2008 online porn three-phase business plan, consists of:

1. Give Away Tons of Free Porn
2. ha?
3. Profit

Tell me again how only freeloaders visit free porn sites?

Alexa Ranking: 37...
http://alexa.com/data/details/traffi...ls/youporn.com

Alexa Ranking: 101...
http://alexa.com/data/details/traffi...ls/redtube.com

:Oh crap

Let me explain you the difference between the mainstream and adult movie industry and the consequences of piracy for each.
First of all, the reason why people go to cinemas is mainly because it is a social event. I do not know anybody who goes to watch a movie in a cinema alone. People go see even really crap movies at the cinema just to hang out with their friends and enjoy the talk before and after the movie.

People who buy a dvd buy it most of the time because they enjoyed the movie they watched at the cinema very much and want to be able and see it again at home, or watch "behind the scenes" parts.
A second reason why people buy dvds is because they missed the movie when it was running in the cinemas and do not want to wait until it comes on television. You are right that they enjoy the high quality in comparison to pirated downloaded movies but I do not think that is the main reason the buy the dvd. If they had the knowledge where to find and how to download the movie without spending too much time to find a reliable source, many of them probably would.

Concerning the adult industry, your statement about "inferior quality, or an inferior experience" does not really match. There are by far less adult movie cinemas and they are not even socially accepted. The main reason to watch an adult movie is to masturbate, and most people prefer to masturbate in privacy. Unfortunately hardly anybody goes to a cinema to watch a pornographic movie therefore. Moreover you do not plan to watch a pornographic movie but it is more a spontaneous decision. Watching an adult movie is (yet) not a social event neither. You do not meet with your friends at 7pm in front of the blue movie theatre in the redlight district, or did I miss out something thus far?
The good old days of renting adult dvds at your local movie store are gone too. The internet offers 24/7 access to everything you want, and downloading a movie within a couple of minutes is for most people the prefered option, compared to ordering a dvd and having to wait for days or weeks.

I absolutely do not agree with you on the cheapskate and real market. There is only one market. Many people might have the attitude to not pay for anything especially porn but this is only the consequence of our industry's fault to provide too much for free. Back in the days where picture posts (not tgps) existed basically everybody browsing those sites was a potential customer. I could write much more but I am going to take a shower now.

In conclusion, the mainstream and adult movie industry are two different shoes that serve completely different needs. I honestly think that most of your arguements do not hold true. By the way, there are no tube sites for mainstream movies yet and do you really think Warner Bros. etc. would accept the fact that people could watch all Hollywood productions for free on the internet and of course they would be glad to advertise one those sites :winkwink:

I'm thinking of starting a tube site with 100% home made porn.

But i still can't figure out how to make money. :winkwink:

Even if you are being sarcastic, I was actually wondering how you can make money on tube sites besides advertising? I've been thinking about this for the better part of a fortnight, and nothing has struck me as a viable alternative; yet when I consider that most people coming to a tube site will just want to logon and jack off, I can't think what the appeal of any advertisement to them would be, as an advertisement would surely require some sort of financial transaction, which isn't going to be all that attractive when you've got your dick in one hand and the other on the keyboard.

Or am I wrong?

Maybe let them watch 10-20 video clips and then they have to signup for something to get to watch the rest. At least then you might have their email address or combine 2 services with 1.

I think tube sites will save this industry

Sales have decreased since 2004 not because of tube sites, but because everyones tours and themes are identical. How many times can you watch a morphed version of the * Hunter (insert niche for *)... its the same shit over and over.

a fake pickup, blowjob, fucking, cumshot.

50 of the same big tit big ass sites, 50 of the same blowjob sites.

People stop paying for the same shit after awhile. Also everyone gives away ALL ACCESS PASS... which sucks balls.

If i join BigNaturals.com, ive already seen every one of their other sites, making it useless for me to join any of their other sites in the future. If a surfer has joined one site, theyve seen them all.

Paysites need to give their members things that tubes can't.
- Higher Quality Files (HD)
- Download to Disk (tubes don't do this)
- Download in every fucking format you can think of (ipod)

evolve.

Doesn't matter what you talk about there's always someone who will freeload it. I used to know a guy a long time back who used to do "double features" - that was his terminology.

Essentially, he would pay for a movie, watch it and then walk into another theater and catch another movie on the house. He did this ALOT and even I went to a couple with him. The thing he said is to look confident - like you belong in this theater and no one will question you. He was right.

It depends on how you look at it. People are only getting a few minutes at most of porn and not the whole video. I'd prefer to have the whole video rather than short clips. I don't think it's killing anyone and it can actually help increase site visitors for the owners. Everyone will have a different opinion on it though. That's just my 2 cents!

The time you have to worry about tubes is when/if they start dominating the search results. The only reason surfers still go to link lists and mgps for porn is because they dont know about the tubes, when they start ranking for keywords tubes will be the norm for users.

I actually always go to the movies alone. I have been to the movies more by myself then with someone else. I go to the movies to watch a MOVIE not to socialize.