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51 Tube sites stealing your livelihood and you couldn't care less...
Think about trying to create a tube site that functions like TV. You produce porn and then try to sell it with lead in and lead out ads. But what can you find paying advertisers for our product? Our product is the ad... So...? This model cannot work and something will have to be done to those who infringe on our ability to conduct business. |
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agree |
Free porn is free porn, for a surfer it doesn't really matter if it's an MGP site or a Tube site. The average guy watches about 2 - 5 mins of porn before he cums. So if he goes to an MGP he watches a few 1 minute clips, and if he goes to a tube site he watches a few minutes of a full length video. So all tube sites do is making it easier for people to watch free porn, but that doesn't mean they won't spend money on porn. For example the surfers from youporn spend $1000s every day on porn. So even though they can get 1000s of free movies, they still spend of money on porn.
(Stolen content is a completely different issue of course) |
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MGPs and TGPs do not provide full length clips, nor do they hide the watermarks of the clips they offer. In fact their real purpose is to redirect traffic to the pay sites, and ultimately increase membership sales. Tube sites do not redirect to membership sites, and since most offer very lengthy clips surfers just stay there, wack off, and call it a day. They do not bother to then go to a pay site afterwards. That doesn't even make sense. Why buy the cow when the milk is free? Some people will argue that MGPs and TGPs are free porn, but most will agree that they are traffic builders for pay sites more than they are free porn sites, very unlike the tubes (legal content or otherwise). Some people will state that you can find free porn via file-sharing sites, password-sharing forums, etc. and although that is also true, those methods take time, and a bit of research, etc. These new tube sites take all of the effort out of locating free porn, therefore simplifying, and greatly expanding the availability of free porn, therefore cutting into the revenue of porn-for-pay. It is really quite clear. If you want to make money in the adult biz you have to see the harm the tube sites present. No surprises. Tube sites absolutely do more harm than good. Ask yourself this question: How do the tube sites HELP the adult industry? If you can't answer that, then guess what?.... |
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Take a look at traffic of the 10 biggest free porn sites that were available 2 years ago, and take a look at the traffic of the 10 biggest free porn sites now. Probably 100x more people are looking at free online porn now compared to 2 years ago, so there is 100x more people that are potential customers. |
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The tube site phenomenon is taking over. Whatever traffic builder sites you can reference from 2 years ago are no longer gaining in popularity - they are losing traffic. The free porn sites that are gaining in popularity are the tube sites, like wild fire. Each one grows like a weed, and the free porn just keeps coming. How will the tube sites compete with each other you ask? Easy, by giving out longer and faster free porn clips. The result will be the demise of the subscriber based business model. In fact strike that - the result will be the demise of the pay-for-porn business model in general, regradless of the framework. Free porn = valueless porn. Let me know if you ever start your own savings bank. I would like to be first in line. I suggest you give out lots of free money to bring in customers, which will in turn help build your successfull business. |
I'm going to go out on a whim and say that the problem is...
Having to pay a subscription per month to get legal porn. In my mind, having been raised within the "technological age", I'm of the mindset that I should pay per product, and not pay a monthly outgoing, which I may not always be able to afford (look at the record number of people finding themselves in debt for overspending) or get full usage out of - so why should I pay $30 a month when I'm only really interested in one or two of your videos? Yes - I know - somebody is going to run in an say "But, Mister! You can get PPV videos now too!". Indeed you can - but ironically most PPV sites I've seen whose marketing seems to support my argument ("Pay per clip instead of monthly", "Pay for what you use" etc.) actually want you to take out a subscription to do this, or prefund your account with some ludicrous amount when all you want to do is login and pay (we've got plenty of non-adult exclusive payment methods available - Credit cards, Debit cards, Pre-paid cards etc.). Think of it this way; before "pay as you go" mobiles, the mobile industry wasn't all that popular - teenagers weren't old enough to be able to pass a credit check for a phone and the tariffs were ridiculously high. Then, some bright spark had the idea of allowing people to "top up" their phones as an alternative to needing a contract, and suddenly the marketed exploded to such a state where every kid and their dog has a mobile phone, making massive revenues for operators who now actually have to subsidise the handsets in order to attract people to their contract offerings, such is the popularity of the pay as you go scheme. So there you go - disagree, or more likely, ignore this post as you want/will/give a fuck, but I really think that some of you need to look outside your front doors at the economy we have today. Sure, in the old days when people barely knew what an "interweb" was, or a "modummmmm" they were all too willing to get out a credit card and subscribe to any old site because it seemed like value for money - "As much porn as I like for the price of one VHS porno movie? I like those odds!" - but now, with DVDs becoming cheaper, and a wealth of alternative distribution channels available, people aren't going to see the benefit of paying on a monthly basis when they might not be interested in your content next month, or even be able to afford the $30 fee; but I'm willing to bet they'd be more than happy to pay you $0.99-$3 for a movie instead, and I'd bet before they knew where they were, they'd have spent $30-40 on movies anyway. Let me give you a closing thought; as a consumer, do you go to iTunes and pay $0.79 per song, or do you go to Napster and get locked in to paying $20 per month for at least 6 months? |
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Not everyone shares your monetary situation or your perception of what is a good value. To the big breasts guys that wanna watch titties all day long, a $30 montly subscription to Scoreland is better than paying $0.10 per minute at Scoreondemand. For the guys that come once in a while, the 0.10 per minute is the bigger deal. |
Hmmm so much misinformation in this thread. The blind leading the blind.
Arguments based on assumption .... surely that makes everything fact right ? |
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The point I am making is that the tube sites will ultimately trump all varieties of pay-for-porn.... subscriber based, pay-per-view, etc. When porn is free it is irrelevant how you try to sell it, no one will be buying it. |
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But then again, people jump off cliffs too... |
I find it very very strange that the big programs doesn't hire a big ass laywer to stop these sites... they're hosting the videos themselfs, so it's not like its hard to proof whats going on..
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some money is being made by some tube sites at the moment, but realize that that is going to shrink through 2008 in a big way as things progress
the industry hasn't yet seen how bad things are going to get |
that's a good point..
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Redtube ad prices:
http://www.etology.com/buying-space-...8833&EID=51331 Avg. Impressions: 21,507,426. Damn |
they probably cut deals
I like the blurb from them: "Description of site: Welcome to the new YouTube of Porn! RedT ube blows away the adult competition by featuring the hottest sex scenes and mov ies, all for free!" |
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Like I said before... those tube sites are way too low resolution for somebody like me to get off to.... My point is the types of people willing to pay for porn think like I DO.... those small video's even if they are long are not good enough! DVD quality and above is where its at.... |
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http://www.maximumusenet.com/ |
The problem the stolen content on them but I am not sure if the sponsors and content owners care to much about it being spread around for free or have the time or money go issuing a dcma then follow up and keep checking.
I am willing to throw a couple of guys I work with into the pot that have some time to start policing these tube sites but I doubt there will be enough interest to make it worthwhile |
It does threaten some business models in the adult industry but if you know business history, markets are constantly evolving. We as an industry must think from the customer's perspective and learn how to make them happy while still making money. Those who don't will die off. We can bitch and moan all we want but ask yourself does that help us out at all? See the world for what it is and you have a much better chance of responding to it. Otherwise you are working blind.
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Truth is, the industry is moving so fast, we can't even keep up. TGP2, AVS.. whats next TGP/MPG? - Tube sites have only just started. Expect to see more tube sites soon. Some will use stolen content and they will find themselves in big trouble. Others will use sponsors promo content to make the surfer understand that while samples are free, their not going to get full length high-quality movies for free.
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Anyone noticing less sales or conversions?
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Who is to blaim?... Well, I know for a fact that the trojan guys are stealing more sales than anyone in here would ever imagine... Let me repeat myself... The trojan guys installing those video codec trojans are the biggest affiliates in the adult industry - that's how many sales they're stealing... |
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Hey guys, guess who their competition is? At this point there are only a few dozen of these tube sites, in 6 months there will be hundreds - unless a plan is implemented to stop them. I know it sounds like I am chicken little, and the sky is falling, but the sales you are getting today are from surfers who have not yet run across these free tube sites. Once the word spreads you will see pay-for-porn profits decrease. You can bank on it! STOP THE TUBES! |
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Too late. All the big TGP owners are finally catching on and starting up their own tube sites. Either evolve or die. It's that simple.
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Its true. The big tgp players are starting to get into the Tube game and their loving it. Check sig for why. :)
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Just a few random thoughts and this is a generalisation and there are sites that are the exception. So this is just my general impression and thoughts. Downside. You make your bed you lie in it. From day 1 it has always been content in front of traffic, so some of the content the surfer was paying for simply was not worth what he was paying. The industry spends as much as 50% of it's turn over in traffic and maybe as little as 10% in what the surfer is buying. Many had little to no qualms of ripping off the surfer to pay the affiliates or themselves. Rip off a surfer and he deserved it, rip off an affiliate and you're scum. The average porn consumer needs 20 minutes, not 30 days. If he really needed 30 days, Tube sites would grind to a halt. Few sell what the consumer needs. I have yet to see anything go beyond threads on boards. If you want to win a fight you have to start throwing punches. Very few will. I watched the reaction to Acacia and saw people support sponsors who signed up and still support them. While others spend money in court to keep those ass holes at bay. Upside. (I'm not sure of my facts so please be kind.) If Tube sites cater to those who do not pay for porn then they have to pay for dating and cam sites. Eventually the new surfers to buy these will slow down to a level that the advertisers will realise they are over paying for traffic. without the other avenues to support them they will cut advertising budgets. However the Tube sites will grow in surfers, more surfers buying less dating and cam sites will make them more costly and less profitable. With the Internet at the point that it's slowing down because of the "free porn" I don't expect hosting to get cheaper and pay sites help support the infra structure. As I said I might be wrong there. Only the Tube sites know. Unless big companies come in with big bucks to fund advertising. Or people will sign up to paysites from Tube sites. I suspect the Adult Net will change a lot over the coming years. Traffic might be king, but not if it's so expensive the surfer will not pay the bill. Hosting is 10-20 cents a GB, I'm thinking good servers and all the other costs. A good quality scene is 400-600 GB. So a movie off a good server is costing 4 to 12 cents. Will the surfer spend 25 to 50 cents to view that scene? The prices are to illustrate the point I'm trying to make so be kind. If affiliates insist we pay out $30 a join then the members have to pay for it. Will they with Tube sites? Will the surfer pay $1 for 4 good scenes in a niche/style all to their liking on a fast server and good quality? If the answer is no, we are fucked because other than threads on boards I see little movement to stop the people stealing our surfers. Before you flame me see this www.removeyourcontent.com if you know of a better option tell me and I will sign up. As I said just some thoughts. So no flaming but I welcome constructive critisism. I'm not a wise as I make out. ;) |
I was not talking about Tube sites with sample clips on.
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good thoughts Paul
I think the bottom line we have to remember, is that no matter what the business model, the money has to come from somewhere in the first place, and in this industry it is from surfers credit cards. dating and cams are really limited, the more the internet matures and the surfers get jaded, dating will only go so far, and cams are the same... some do well with it now, but there are not enough people that are interested in pulling out a credit card to pay for a cam service when they are just looking for a 15 minute video that they can now get for free the incoming money to the industry is slowing drastically and the surfer that is willing to pull out a credit card and spend into it are declining and will decline even further as the free porn model gets more and more prevalent... those that are "adapting" as people like to say are just going to help speed up that decline |
I was not talking about Tube sites with sample clips on.
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So why are they not suing these guys for theft? Are they getting sales off the movies? Are they getting a kick back off Redtube? Do they own Redtube? Are affiliates pulling away from Nasty Dollars because of the lack of sales? Just me thinking aloud, because if you read some of the posts here ND should have the lawyers in full swing by now. |
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For those of you who say the tubes with licensed content are okay, or the tubes with promo clips like MGPs are okay, are also mistaken. The tube sites will compete with each other. The way for one tube site to beat out another will be to offer LONGER FREE CLIPS and provide this FREE PORN faster than the competition. Surfers will not go to Joe's free tube site full of 30 second promo clips once the find out about the tube sites that offer longer clips, and often full free scenes. These sites will eat up the pay-for-porn models, and then devour each other. Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. STOP THE TUBES! |
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And before anyone jumps in and scream my site does not convert it has been doing 1-300 approx recently. Including Tube traffic. |
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It worked before Tube sites, IMHO, it will not work the same in the future. |
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The biggest moaners are the ones who demanded free content, free hosting, free RSS before they would promote a site and demanded a big slice of the cake forcing the prices up. How do you spell IRONIC? |
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As far as lawsuits go, I don't have any good answers, but the legal teams probably cost a pretty penny, the theft is rampant, the government can't even deal with the theft of mainstream content, so they are not going to go to bat for the porn industry, and at first the overpaid lawyers will probably just sent out C&D letters anyway. How do you frame a lawsuit against the mystery company operating out of the Netherlands or wherever? An international law suit, based upon a speculative amount of profit loss? By the end of the process the lawyers will be the only ones that make money from lawsuits as far as I can imagine. |
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The governing factor will be the cost of the Tube site v the ROI. If you can't turn a profit then you go out of business. If you make a profit you stay in business. Even Zorgmans option of the sponsor hosting has a cost, if it replaces the cost of the affiliate and makes a profit thats a business evolving. If it does not make a profit the sponsor pulls the clips. Sites stealing content have to host everything themselves. Even more costs on a poor return. As for the industry standing up to protect itself. Dream on. Look in your drive way at the make of car you drive and the size of car. I'm thinking you're an American. Forgive me if I'm wrong and read this as an example. Then take off your shirt and pants and look at where they were made. We buy the best product at the best price we can find and think of TODAY and never tomorrow. Affiliates will not spend money or divert traffic to companies screwing them and sponsors will go where next weeks buck is. Sorry if the truth is a bitter pill, but these threads have been done again and again and I see nothing much else happening. |
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Protecting your copyrighted content can be done at a profit. But you have to WANT to. |
not too big of a threat
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if i wanted to jerk off 2 years ago i had to take out some sort of membership. now why the hell would i do that when there is so much variety available free. infact i dont have to even download the clips any more, just watch on screen and clean myself after that no messy credit card chargebacks to take care of no recurring memberships and no $$$$ either my internet connection pays for everything i need so far as porn is concerned |
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