Why the fuck do affiliate programs put up with NATS or MPA3?

[BoyAlley]

I really don't understand why this industry allows itself to be dominated by 2 companies, both of whom release a product with encrypted code, and both of whom have shown a propensity to dictate their will on people that use their software?

I have never seen anything like it.

NATS thinks a program is shaving, BAM pull their license and for all intents and purposes put them out of business to "protect the affiliates".

MPA3 thinks a financial services firm is crappy, BAM stop allowing people that use their software to do business with them, to "protect their clients".

What ever happened to companies actually being able to make their OWN business decisions, without being dictated to by a third party software company?

Why couldn't affiliates decide if they wanted to do business with the company NATS thought was shaving?

Why couldn't affiliate programs decide if they think Segpay is trustworthy or not for themselves?

You want to talk about one of the REAL weaknesses in this industry, relying on 3rd party ENCRYPTED scripts to make or break your business, is retarded.

I can't imagine why anyone would want Oystein or John making strategic decisions for their companies, when all they are, is nothing more than software providers that write glorified stats programs.

I don't make predictions often, but I predict this practice will come to an end if these guys don't start releasing source, and stop trying to dictate to their clients how they can or can not run their companies.


Now, since both of these guys buy a TON of drinks for people each year, I'm sure i'll be getting it from all sides. But I'm use to being gang banged so fuck you all with a traffic cone in advance.

[Iron Fist]

Might go to 4 or 5 pages...

[Jman]

What do you have against MPA3

[Sly]

While we're at it, let's boycott Visa.

You know... you can buy the source code of NATS, and MPA3 probably has a similar solution, though I don't know for sure.

[ytcracker]

[deanberkeley]

Sig spottin'

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by Sly

While we're at it, let's boycott Visa.

Totally different scenario. Visa Card Holders are Visa's clients.

Affiliate program's affiliates are not NATS and/or MPA3's clients.

Originally Posted by Sly

You know... you can buy the source code of NATS

You're wrong about that too, but thanks for playing.

[XSecurityAudit]

This will be interesting.

I agree with the author though. A lot of encrypted or binary software in this industry, most of it riddled with backdoors and/or undisclosed vulnerabilities.

Sooner or later some wiseguy blackhatswill start publishing full disclosure exploits for the software out in this industry. And things will get from bad to worse. You know how many 0day exploits already exist? I've found several without any thorough auditing, imagine the ones already being exploited. Mhm.

[teksonline]

Not making any accusations, but I think alot of programs actually encrypt their code to hide the fact of how crap it is...

I use to do that when i was an amateur

[pocketkangaroo]

The reason is $$$$$$. A few years ago everyone decided they wanted their own program and most of them couldn't afford it.

[jay23]

As some one who runs a software biz in adult here is my 2cents.

None of the adult companies are force to work with NATS or MPA, if they want they can go and write their own code to run their program.

Same goes to Microsoft Windows, don't like it ? find some thing else.

We don't give out our source code either, but if you give me enough $$ then its a different story.

Jay
objectcube.com

[XSecurityAudit]

Originally Posted by jay23

As some one who runs a software biz in adult here is my 2cents.

None of the adult companies are force to work with NATS or MPA, if they want they can go and write their own code to run their program.

Same goes to Microsoft Windows, don't like it ? find some thing else.

We don't give out our source code either, but if you give me enough $$ then its a different story.

Jay
objectcube.com

All very valid points. I understand that your source code is precious to you, but these people running NATS/whatever else depend on the integrity of your software. If your software is not secure, the clients' livelihood is at stake.

If companies are going to sell their software in binary form, then they should audit their code -- better yet, hire security auditors (like moi) to come in and audit the source code. It is no guarantee to the client, but companies like TMM will most likely deter any further embarrassments like this recent one.

My opinion is biased.

[NETbilling]

Both NATS and MPA are great pieces of software. There are other affiliate software programs out there that are great as well such as ES & Partnersoft of whom we have many merchants using them all. We have worked closely with all of the aforementioned and all have their strengths.
It is up to the webmaster to design their own or rely on a third party to provide. The same goes for processing. Obviously, designing your own software give you more flexibility to dictate how it is used and when you use a third party, you must abide by their TOS (terms of service).

[notoldschool]

We use nats and they do not dictate what processor we use. Paycom and CCbill seem to work well.

[teksonline]

Originally Posted by NetBilling

Both NATS and MPA are great pieces of software. There are other affiliate software programs out there that are great as well such as ES & Partnersoft of whom we have many merchants using them all. We have worked closely with all of the aforementioned and all have their strengths.
It is up to the webmaster to design their own or rely on a third party to provide. The same goes for processing. Obviously, designing your own software give you more flexibility to dictate how it is used and when you use a third party, you must abide by their TOS (terms of service).

I don't think "great" is the word.. I can give design flaw scenerios about each of those software programs... and those can't be fixed without doing complete redesigns of the program which will never happen.

They are however easy to get started business apps that can make a small company become huge faster

[nico-t]

i just jacked off to some lesbian teacher-with-teen kind of porn

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by NetBilling

Both NATS and MPA are great pieces of software.

I wonder if you'd be saying that if one of them woke up one day and decided they had a bug up their ass about Netbilling for some reason and pulled a Segpay on you?

Now, I'm not comparing your company to Segpay by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm sure both of these companies love the hell out of you right now.

But if a software company is prepared to limit which financial service firms their clients do business with, who's to say what the future holds?

I'd be worried about software companies starting to make these types of moves if I were you, or any other financial services firm for that matter.

I think today's news is a VERY scary development.

[TheDoc]

Why would it not be encoded? So your coders can screw it up, then ask for support 1000 times when things break? Or would that be so people more easily find exploits? Or not pay for it again when they duplicate it or share it?

It's encoded to protect it and everything has a price.

[RayVega]

back when I started my first site (thecumslut.com) I wrote my own affiliate software. It was clunky, and the stats were not really 100% realtime because there was a manual element to the tracking...but it was mine and I was in control of what processors I used, when, and why.

Now, I never shaved, but I suspect that on the political platform of a 3rd party watching over your shoulder, a lot of companies jumped on the band wagon to prove they were not shaving.

Thecumslut is long sold off and even when I started mobbucks a few years ago, my partners and I fell into the NATS trap too. If I do it again (and I probably will), I'm writing my own. I don't care about suspected shaving..audit me. I'll never bend over to a third party's tos again. Write your own stats program, you'll be happier for it.

That's just my two cents, I may be way off here.

[RayVega]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Why would it not be encoded? So your coders can screw it up, then ask for support 1000 times when things break? Or would that be so people more easily find exploits? Or not pay for it again when they duplicate it or share it?

It's encoded to protect it and everything has a price.

You are 100% right, if you are going to sell software and support it...you have to encode it. People are assholes, you just have to.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

So your coders can screw it up, then ask for support 1000 times when things break?

Certainly that could be covered in the license if the source was sold, now couldn't it?

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Or would that be so people more easily find exploits?

You mean so that bugs could more easily be found and fixed? Open Source apps have proven to be the most secure there are.

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Or not pay for it again when they duplicate it or share it?

There are other ways to prevent that from happening.

[Barefootsies]

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I wonder if you'd be saying that if one of them woke up one day and decided they had a bug up their ass about Netbilling for some reason and pulled a Segpay on you?

Now, I'm not comparing your company to Segpay by any stretch of the imagination, and I'm sure both of these companies love the hell out of you right now.

But if a software company is prepared to limit which financial service firms their clients do business with, who's to say what the future holds?

I'd be worried about software companies starting to make these types of moves if I were you, or any other financial services firm for that matter.

I think today's news is a VERY scary development.

From the 'other' thread

If MPA use TMM/Segpay then they have to rely on them for support - and they have to have their support to incorporate the stats.

TMM/Segpay could pull the plug at any moment on MPA leaving MPA with a fucking great mess.

From what I have seen recently TMM are more than capable of doing it as well.

[Mutt]

if you can't afford to have your own custom affiliate backend with your own tech staff supporting it then you should be using CCBILL's System 5 or EpochStats and that's a fact. This NATS situation is proof - most programs had no idea what was going on because they don't have in house technical expertise routinely checking up on things.

Mansion aided and abetted the mass shaving of affiliates - only in the 'bro' world of the online adult industry would they have survived that debacle.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Mansion aided and abetted the mass shaving of affiliates -

[teksonline]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Why would it not be encoded? So your coders can screw it up, then ask for support 1000 times when things break? Or would that be so people more easily find exploits? Or not pay for it again when they duplicate it or share it?

It's encoded to protect it and everything has a price.

If I cared, i could un-encode it in 25 seconds if its PHP.. in zend ioncube php audit or codebreak.... It's encoded for the fear of the company program getting stolen, which it could anyhow...
its nothing more than a "EGO MOVE" based on unintelligent technical owner

and before you attack me for being some sort of a hacker, go ask any php coder with the mildest of skills if it can be...

heck i will tell you right now.... you have a program coded with codebreak lying around... call a url of that script from your server via "wget" package using flag -o and then look at scriptname.php.1 in that directory
there ya go, the full source code of that script in plain text lol
the others are a bit more tricky, but basically the same

[teksonline]

oops i forgot one main point... chmod it like 000 or something first so you get an error, that causes the dump of the script source code

[teksonline]

oh i forget the other point they really use it.... licensing, timed licenses/ ip licenses,etc the encoder controls this feature.... but they can make it so it just does that and doesnt bother all the other code.. but they don't cuz they are scared

[AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE]

I could ad something intelligent to this thread...

But there is no money in it for me.
So I wont.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I really don't understand why this industry allows itself to be dominated by 2 companies, both of whom release a product with encrypted code, and both of whom have shown a propensity to dictate their will on people that use their software?

I have never seen anything like it.

NATS thinks a program is shaving, BAM pull their license and for all intents and purposes put them out of business to "protect the affiliates".

MPA3 thinks a financial services firm is crappy, BAM stop allowing people that use their software to do business with them, to "protect their clients".

What ever happened to companies actually being able to make their OWN business decisions, without being dictated to by a third party software company?

Why couldn't affiliates decide if they wanted to do business with the company NATS thought was shaving?

Why couldn't affiliate programs decide if they think Segpay is trustworthy or not for themselves?

You want to talk about one of the REAL weaknesses in this industry, relying on 3rd party ENCRYPTED scripts to make or break your business, is retarded.

I can't imagine why anyone would want Oystein or John making strategic decisions for their companies, when all they are, is nothing more than software providers that write glorified stats programs.

I don't make predictions often, but I predict this practice will come to an end if these guys don't start releasing source, and stop trying to dictate to their clients how they can or can not run their companies.


Now, since both of these guys buy a TON of drinks for people each year, I'm sure i'll be getting it from all sides. But I'm use to being gang banged so fuck you all with a traffic cone in advance.

You might actually make some sense if you hadn't typed all that in on your closed source, encrypted home computer with all it's bundled shit you don't want.

[spacedog]

Says MPA3 made a decision based on the fact that TMM/SegPay is a competitor, so naturally it's sensible to avoid conflict of interest.

Sort of like if Mobile Gas got their gas delivered by XYZ Tankers but then XYZ Tankers was just purchased by Exxon.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by spacedog

Says MPA3 made a decision based on the fact that TMM/SegPay is a competitor, so naturally it's sensible to avoid conflict of interest.

Right, MPA3 said it made its decision basically in the best interest of ITS company.

Right or wrong (and everyone knows my opinion), there are companies using MPA3 who have decided to utilize Segpay, and now all of a sudden, with something like 30 days notice, they have to up and find a different financial services firm, even though they didn't want to, because MPA3 shut them off from their processor of choice apparently in order to advance its competitive interests against rival software.

That, to me, is a corporation having its core business practices dictated to it by stats software of all things?

[teksonline]

more like sprint cold calling at&t customers and offerign them to come over for a free $25 credit... shady and unethical as can be, but they do it and i dont think nothing wrong about it... but i also don't think sprint gets their customer database they contact from att, whereas segpay would.... thats the conflict

[NaughtyRob]

Just promote sites that use CCBill. :-)

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by sortie

You might actually make some sense if you hadn't typed all that in on your closed source, encrypted home computer with all it's bundled shit you don't want.

I'm using FireFox, which is open source. And Microsoft doesn't tell me that I can't use it on Vista just because they have a competing application, IE.

[teksonline]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

I'm using FireFox, which is open source. And Microsoft doesn't tell me that I can't use it on Vista just because they have a competing application, IE.

Probably cuz they learned about anti-trust with that and Netscape with a 20 million dollar settlement a few years ago just by giving their program out for FREE...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Certainly that could be covered in the license if the source was sold, now couldn't it?

No, not really. Might as well have it encoded so nobody can screw it up then. But as I said anything has a price, so who knows.

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

You mean so that bugs could more easily be found and fixed? Open Source apps have proven to be the most secure there are.

No, open source software is much easier to exploit and is targeted and exploited much more often.

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

There are other ways to prevent that from happening.

Not really, it's open code.

[BoyAlley]

TheDoc, you do realize, that by sucking John Albright's cock non stop since this issue came up, you've lost any and all credibility right?

I mean, someone would have to be a pretty stupid dick at this point to put any weight to anything that comes from your keyboard from here on out.

I hope it was worth it Bro.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by teksonline

Probably cuz they learned about anti-trust with that and Netscape with a 20 million dollar settlement a few years ago just by giving their program out for FREE...

You beat me to it.

I wasted too much time getting wiki quotes.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

TheDoc, you do realize, that by sucking John Albright's cock non stop since this issue came up, you've lost any and all credibility right?

I mean, someone would have to be a pretty stupid dick at this point to put any weight to anything that comes from your keyboard from here on out.

I hope it was worth it Bro.

Only person I know of around sucking cock would be yourself.. And credibility for what, for who?

I stand up for NATS because I own Affiliate Programs. Anyone that runs NATS and not standing up for the backend that they run on is the only people around here that have lost any credibility.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

No, open source software is much easier to exploit and is targeted and exploited much more often.

Yeah, I thought boyalley was smoking some heavy shit when he made his comment about this.

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I stand up for NATS because I own Affiliate Programs.

Oh so THAT's the only reason huh?

[sortie]

PS: NATS software wasn't exploited.

Their admin passwords were compromised and it is yet to be proven beyond a doubt how that happened.

[Damian_Maxcash]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Oh so THAT's the only reason huh?

Glad Im not the only one who picked up on that.....

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Oh so THAT's the only reason huh?

And I consult for lots of NATS programs, and MPA, and others.. So lots of Affiliate Programs and a few of my own. John has never paid me for anything, nor drinks.. Just a Thank you on ICQ.

I stand up for my clients like this too, do a history check on me being me.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Damian_Maxcash

Glad Im not the only one who picked up on that.....

Yeah, I know why you guys post in NATS threads.. Makes me laugh.

[Varius]

It's pretty simple, if you don't like a certain software's practices, use another one or have custom code done.

If a software drops a particular processor and you like that processor, it's your choice to move to a new software.

As for the thirty-day notice thing, you should already have contingency plans for those situations. What if you process with only one merchant account, regardless of custom code or any software, but don't have a backup and that account drops adult with 30 days notice? It's happened many times before and will undoubtedly happen again.

Those softwares who drop processors or appear to have their own agendas etc... simply won't find themselves being as attractive to customers. That's their right to make those decisions though.

This is just another lame drama thread in a history of lame drama threads

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by Varius

If a software drops a particular processor and you like that processor, it's your choice to move to a new software.

Yes all program owners know how easy THAT is to do.
And do it in 30 days? No sweat!

[Validus]

Originally Posted by BoyAlley

Yes all program owners know how easy THAT is to do.

I hear it is cake to move from NATS to MPA3.

Mind you, thats just what I heard. Sooooo... but hey!

[BoyAlley]

Originally Posted by Validus

I hear it is cake to move from NATS to MPA3.

Worst spam ever.