mike-al

You also support

feeding the poisonous snake in your backyard where your child plays.
feeding your porn affiliates a chapter 11 filing
tieing the noose around your companies neck
sending yourself up the river with no paddle
....... The death of your own industry.


Do the logic, do the math.... who's running the sites...
dating / cam programs... and people with no business knowledge
who are putting up the dating / cam ads..
Guess what, they can care less about your porn, which is why they are asking for it.. all for what, a banner ad? lol Their goal, take over the world, using your porn. And looks like they are winning. and laughing in your face at the same time

DO NOT FEED THE BEARS

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darkmediak07

I agree, tube sites are a threat. Especially the scumbags that steal content. It's easy to generate tons of hits when you are just giving everything away. Unfortunately this problem is not going away, it's getting bigger..

PR_Sebas

i tend to agree however some of those tubesites, and i to mean SOME are actually ok... the ones that have just a few sample clips which would equal maybe four hosted video gals arent bad... the ones that only offer up 1 min videos and have a link to the sponser on that page somewhere...

unfortuately there are only very few who actually do this

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cosis

great post - hope they listen

scottybuzz

bump biump

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tony286

you have good points.

Scott McD

Bears need food to you know...

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thonglife

What about HQTube.com? Legit or not as I really haven't had time to really look at this one. They are pushing imlive and CCBill is processing something for them. ???

mike-al

let's see, I see ppc ads, dating ads, cam ads splattered over 75% of the page... Yeah they are interested in selling your porn alright... lol

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mike-al

Throwing your video content out there without a leash on it is your own death wish....You can't fetch it back, and have you ever try to catch a dog not on a leash?


Hehe, I Just seen watermarked videos in which a site replaced the watermark with their own biggler bolder one just alike a cover up tattoo. So if you think cheap branding is your goal.. think again

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TheDoc

Years and years ago, when TGP's first came around... Everyone, and I mean everyone, said they wouldn't last - no way you could give away that much free content and still make a buck.. With almost no sponsors making hosted galleries, they started off as the first legit backdoor sites. (instead of hot linking the content, they linked directly to the page, they didn't used to have ads, it was stolen content people)

Saying Tube's will kill our business is flat wrong...

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mike-al

There's a slight difference when using the content to promote that site
against given free content that promote's nothing.. As stated above, its free porn with no leash... TGP's have leashes, MGP's have leases, Link Lists have leashes... leashes = value, can you show me the leash on a tube site?

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TheDoc

Yeah, lots of them... http://www.pornotube.com/ try looking around rather than just bashing them.

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polish_aristocrat

http://www.megarotic.com/video/?v=L5F37EKF

Maria Ozawa - Agonizing Orgasm, Endless Shiofuki

Runtime: 119:01

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mike-al

Yeah, I see a lot of leashes on that site.. let's see, so far none.. a few videos with a watermark.. Ugh, yeah that model will work, oh and yeah was'nt that the guy I just met at a show, who was asking me, how to make a fucking dollar with this site?

Oh wait, I'm a newb I shouldnt be talking. I know nothing

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thonglife

Megarotic is starting to ignore DMCA's by the way. .

darkmediak07

Whats the best way to protect your vids? Is the only way to stream them and require a license? Apparently watermarking them means nothing to these content thieves as they will just mark over it.

TheDoc

Are you saying they don't produce sales when they have full length movies up? You need to stop bashing and start testing.. I have, you would be wrong to think stolen content doesn't produce sales.

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Miguel T

Lets bring them down!

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TheDoc

You didn't even look.. Click the video, watch the overlay.. Don't be pissed that tube sites send 10 times more traffic and sales than the biggest TGP's.. It's okay to get replaced.

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mike-al

Yeah, I've never been to a tube site... what am i thinking, what am I knowing... Let me guess, you have a tube site, and I bet you're sitting there wondering how to increase that $400 a week check, to cover the expesnes of the $900 / week bandwidth bill.... oh i know, how about putting up some dating / cam sponsor ads

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SmokeyTheBear

[QUOTE=TheDoc;13413765]Years and years ago, when TGP's first came around... Everyone, and I mean everyone, said they wouldn't last - no way you could give away that much free content and still make a buck[/quopte]

i dont remembert it being so open and shut.. i understand what you are saying but i think you mean "lots of people" not everyone.
i agree.. "tube sites" is very very general.

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TheDoc

I don't know how long you or amp have really been in the game.. But I very clearly remember everyone I talked to saying CJ's and TGP's would never make it, hell TGP's said CJ trades would be the death of the business.. Now TGP's are CJ's.. Everything in this business has been the death of the business.

I once owned a TGP, it did aobut 200-400k uniques a day, I have purchased huge amounts of traffic, built galleries, ect...

Tubes produce more traffic and sales for me than TGP's ever have. With about 1000% less effort and the bw cost on someones dime, so now I'm making more net too, and I can have exits - so even more net..

Many many tube sites will die, from legal issues to not knowing how to make money with them. But saying they will be the death of the industry - is 100% wrong. Not that you said that directly.

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fris

serious business

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SmokeyTheBear

i can't comment about what he said but i can say that having a good portion of your exclusive content given away for free obviously can't be good for sales.

obviously its a point that isn't so clear.. Getting your site exposed to the public is key. thats where tube sites have it right, giving away the whole shebang is where they have it wrong.

newsgroups and tgp's never had all the content to give away, newsgroups and tgp's were never easy for finding exclusive content.

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TheDoc

No I do not own a tube site, I would never open one when so many others are around to be taken advantage of.

And is this your attempt to insult me? I hope not.

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TheDoc

Tube sites, that steal content and put up the entire movie, and rip of the water mark off.. They will die off - the BW cost trade off will catch up. Sites like porno tube who continue to create new ways to drive in traffic, they will be the new TGP's.

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SmokeyTheBear

i had a porn bbs before the internet began that should give you a general idea.

"everyone YOU talked to " doesnt mean everyone

if everyone said that then who started all these damn tgp's ?

why would you start something that everyone agreed would ruin your own business ?

let's agree that many people were as opposed to tgp's as they are now to tube sites

and for me it's the opposite .. so there is no clear answer



i def didn't say it because i completely agree with you

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SmokeyTheBear

wait wait , if we both have the exact same tube site and i rip the watermarks off, why would mine fail ?

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joy

sponsors that SUPPORT Tube sites? What about sponsors that own tube sites with 20-30-40-60+ minute movies? http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...35298b2e5fb678

joy

That is a money maker because most clips are 2 Mins and under and watermarked aaaand there are sponsor ads.

I think he is refering to sites such as pornhub.com and megarotic.com

TheDoc

With both of us only having banners, I would guess the cost of bw would make the difference.. I don't think many tube sites will make it, just like 1000's of TGP's didn't make it.

But sites like porno tube and jays, and others.. will hold very strong and some are already able to out send TGP's, even the top listings. Many of the top tube sites do this already, so I don't think the surfers mind much... at that, I really think surfers like to know where the movies came from.

If you have a system down for TGP's, building galleries, partner accounts, ect.. Just change your business direction, put in the same efforts for tubes as you once did galleries - and you will see larger results.

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notoldschool

affiliates are fucked. ;O

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SmokeyTheBear

if we both have the same content the same tube site and the only difference is i rip the watermarks off we are both paying the exact same for bw and costs = i make more profit = you will never last

if we play the same game but i have fewer ethics i will win

lets just assume that we both have identical tube sites , you play by the rules i dont..

lets say we both have every video correlated to the sponsor by banner ads below or inside the video


so far we are both playing by the rules.

now lets say i rip off all the watermarks and intro's from mine ( obviously this means my viewers will now have a better experience )

then lets say i track clicks and profit from the banners below every video , and if the sponsor is not performing better than avg i simply dont link to the sponsor , instead linking to whatever will make me the most money..

so now i am offering better videos than you and making more profit than you..




of course i dont have their stats to see if this is true but i would bet most of those mentioned use their own traffic to drive to the tube site ( prob at a loss right now )

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SmokeyTheBear

the big difference is tgp's and cj's always advertised the product at some point. the big tube sites we have seen so far this just isn't the case. If they could be making better money working with the sponsors instead of with dating , why didnt they ? why aren't they ?

so what it boils down to is, if your competition can make more money than you delivering the same product , how do you really think you are going to profit ?

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mike-al

I am trying to make out your business model point... So if I get this straight you are saying that more free unleashed porn will drive more sales to your company because more free unleashed porn is better than the current model in place? And that we TGP operators are being replaced?
The only reason it's being done at this point is because these "failing sites" can't establish
traffic in the first place, or am I dead wrong there? heh

And you seem to think the industry can handle this fluctuation in long term goals because surfers can never have enough free porn and will continue to pay per minute on your advanced model which will ugh stop the popups, video stoppers, redirections and whatnot?

Yet your base your entire business model for porn as a PPM structure?
Thats some crazy short term goals in mind..


Yes, you may be making money now, the market is fresh and being exploited... Does this mean your money will be there in 6 months? 12 months? how about 10 years from now?

The only reason it hasnt been abused to the max now is because most webmasters and whatnot are scared shitless of the legalities of this content, and acquiring it... What happens when the first lawsuit gets slammed to the rest of the tube sites????? Never thought about it?
Hell name one of those sites on US soil...

Where is the content going to come from when its tapped out and your line of publishers/distributors is depleted and can care less to provide more as fast when nooone is buying it?

As I stated before, the VOD's out there now will be buying and sucking up all the tube sites soon and redirectiong etc.... You think your competing program operators are going to continue to feed you when this happens? You will be out of content and traffic.... the rich will then buy out the ones that established themselves, and the fad will then be over... with most of you in the unemployment line.

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mike-al

I just clicked on a pornotube video from nubiles.net when i clicked it i got a full page redirect of a AFF ad lol... Yeah nublies is really making money off that.
No video was ever loaded though, and i never seen that nubiles thumb again on refresh.. No harm no foul i guess eh?

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TheDoc

With your first post, I really don't think by not having watermarks vs not having them or having ads for the sponsor - will not push or move people away from tube to the other. Their has been a great deal of research done on people being exposed to site versions with ads and without, and often the site with the ads performs better in multiple areas over the site without. This happens on-line and off-line.

Of course Tube sites could be making more money, even the best possible ones right now could be making way more money. Almost every TGP has adjusted from its original setup an idea, twisting in more ways to make money and learned a lot of the years. Some Tube owners will never get it - others will.. Just like every other part of this business.

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TheDoc

Mike Al
This is long term, you might want to start excepting that fact. They may not last forever, but they are here for many more years. And yes, some will get sued, some should, just like dirty TGP’s, Forums, and 1000’s of other Websites that steal content. That doesn’t even factor in newsgroups, p2p, torrent, warez, real pirate dvd/content, and all the other nasty methods of getting large amounts of stolen, anything.

I understand that the long term Internet means continual change and adaptation to new ideas, medias, products, and so on. Ignoring this change, like rss, social media, tubes, ect is the reason TGP’s and Affiliate Programs have seen an overall drop in traffic and sales.

It’s not because people steal shit, it’s not because of tubes they get less sales. It’s because they have ignored changed – or they understandably have no clue that things have changed. We have all selected the Internet as our business models, what’s done one way today may be different tomorrow, are you ready for change that quick? I am…

Traffic has moved, Webmasters moved, surfers moved, they are all still on the Internet, the question is what are you doing to get them from their new Internet homes, and back to yours?

Tubes, adult and non-adult have taken millions of people from you – go get them back.

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mike-al

Not really afraid nor have a seen a change of millions of people taken...

What I clearly see a failing business model of amateur players who trying to get a piece of "one part" the industry by giving away another....of which I can't see where or how you can say it will live on and replace TGP/MGP etc.

It's built upon the "give give give model" Which has been proven time and time again can only last a short time..

If this model works, why can't I go down the street and get a free ice cream cone? Would they not have an ice cream store that gave away free single scoop cones, in hopes i am really hungry for double scoops or perhaps the big bonanza BANANA SPLIT splurge?

Or perhaps they can give away free ice cream can sell my Coffee Latee's at $5 a pop as a pullin

One thing is for sure, the ice cream vendors will shut down the supply and fuck me over, if i tired that... That I know.. Because ice cream will lose its value..

Hence it will be a short time before these publishers do the same.. they just have to learn first.

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FakeNick

who gives a fuck about them

these are the people killing the industry by offering all the free porn anyway if they die off the rest of us will be a lot better off ..... those of us who arent in this as a hobby to make drug money at the weekend

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sexuallyhealed

O RLY???

mike-al

The VOD players do, because its right up their alley for now.
Is it not so clearly seen as a way to cheaply take over the entire industry by taking out the pay sites feeding them with free upsell material they use to drive sales to their own programs? Like I said, if you support them, you are feeding the snake that will kill you. Because their intentions are not to sell your site, but to feed their own using your content. Some players might not have this in mind or have the clue now, but as said, the VOD's will buy all these sites up and start toyng with it.. Just like all the pop-up circle jerk tgp's

Can't see how TheDoc thinks he can say it could replace a TGP/MGP either. Clearly he is closed minded over the few bucks he's making to his VOD now..
All we have to say to our providers, is hey, ughm no more 10-20 seconds clips, make em 3-10 minutes now like the tube sites.. lol, simple as that.
Game over back in our control if we really cared.

Lets look futher into this.. Now, who would the sponsor choose, a leashed site established for 10 years on a known model that works with direct advertising plugs, or dump their crap into the public domain in which maybe they might get a viewer to their tour, and who knows what else... I mean hey if there is going to be 100000 tube sites, "affiliates" must be accessing this content easily from somewhere right? You think theyre going to spend day/night uploading their huge videos to your site 24/7? You already see most of it is closed doors already... Tube sites are in fact suffercating themselves already.

With TGP/MGP you are in control, you have the leash... You put your content on these sites, they can do with it what they want.. You really thing as a surfer when i see that 2 second graphic at the end that says JOE BLOWS PORN SITE.. that I as a surfer am gonna run right over and sign up.. lol
or am i going to refresh that page and see another video until i get redirected to a dating / cam site.

Hell the way i see it, you put that content out there like that, i can run a bot on your site and have my own clone and do with the content what i want.. after all, there's ZERO restrictions behind it...... you put it out there.... its about as close to public domain content as one can get no?

WHAT A CRAZY IDEA THAT WILL FAIL

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FakeNick

you sir are an idiot you sound like paul markham on crack and every time someone counters your point with a valid reason why you are wrong you change your stance

its the sponsors fault
its the tube sites fault
its the pro webmasters fault
its the vod sites fault

it seems like it is everyones fault but your own for not staying in with the latest trends why you arent making any money

just go back to sticking your head in the sand you will make a lot more sense doing that than posting any more in this thread

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mike-al

yes im so scared, we are going 100% TUBE tommorow

lol, actually im sick of this topic being 99% of all trade show scuttlebutt lately.. when its so blatently fucking obvious how stupid the model is

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SomeCreep

TGPs will always have their place on the net, because there will always be surfers looking for pictures, and most tube sites don't offer pictures, only videos. However, with the proliferation of tube sites, MGPs will eventually become obsolete. Just ask yourself, why would a surfer want to visit an MGP when he can visit a tube site instead? That would be the same as a surfer preferring to visit a TGP2 site, instead of a TGP.

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TheDoc

Mike, I never said TGP's/MGP's would get replaced by Tube sites.. I said, and I quote "Don't be pissed that tube sites send 10 times more traffic and sales than the biggest TGP's.. It's okay to get replaced."

Well, I guess you are being replaced - as they gain more traffic and suck yours away. But it isn't just Tube sites - it's the entire social Internet doing it to you because you refuse to wake up.

And I love your idea that Tube and VOD going together. Your statement proves my point even more.. If people are willing to buy very expensive VOD, then they will damn sure pay for cheap ass porn sites.

I do find it funny that you continue to reference me as some small joe blow webmaster. You're the Affiliate, not I.

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mike-al

Mike, I never said TGP's/MGP's would get replaced by Tube sites.. I said, and I quote "Don't be pissed that tube sites send 10 times more traffic and sales than the biggest TGP's.. It's okay to get replaced."

Ughm, why is my brain spinning at this one... I mean did he just not say he just not say did not just say this this yet it says he said it before saying it was said?

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TheDoc

You are a bit slow.. I never said Tubes would replace TGP's and MGP's.. But you will be replaced as the traffic kings, like tubes and other social sites take a stronger hold.. Saying you will be replaced in reference to traffic does not mean that TGP's and MGP's are a lost business model.

You are twisting words to make yourself feel better but in reality your making yourself look stupid.

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These guys can help him.



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