Leading DNA scientist: "black people are less intelligent than white people."

[Jet - BANNED FOR LIFE]

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_te...cle3067222.ece

Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners

Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"

One of the world's most eminent scientists was embroiled in an extraordinary row last night after he claimed that black people were less intelligent than white people and the idea that "equal powers of reason" were shared across racial groups was a delusion.

James Watson, a Nobel Prize winner for his part in the unravelling of DNA who now runs one of America's leading scientific research institutions, drew widespread condemnation for comments he made ahead of his arrival in Britain today for a speaking tour at venues including the Science Museum in London.

The 79-year-old geneticist reopened the explosive debate about race and science in a newspaper interview in which he said Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts when "testing" suggested the contrary. He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

The newly formed Equality and Human Rights Commission, successor to the Commission for Racial Equality, said it was studying Dr Watson's remarks " in full". Dr Watson told The Sunday Times that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours ? whereas all the testing says not really". He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

[who]

I could've told you that 100% free of charge.

[Big_Red]

and you need a scientist for this?

[Worldnet]

This has been proven before by scientific study, and then shot down as racist as soon as the results were released.

[OzMan]

he's a brave man for making that comment, but if he has the proof to back it up then why not

[aico]

Too bad whites are too lazy to use that greater intelligence for anything.

[PowerCum]

I don't get it.

The only logic way to explain this is that some white people are smart enough to hire black guys with big talent to fuck white girls in front of a camera and then sell the video to other white guys that have money to spend.

Other than that... I see the whole argument completely stupid.

On the other side... are white people that try to get their skin tanned in summer intelligent people who are trying to get less intelligent?

[aico]

Originally Posted by PowerCum

I don't get it.

The only logic way to explain this is that some white people are smart enough to hire black guys with big talent to fuck white girls in front of a camera and then sell the video to other white guys that have money to spend.

Other than that... I see the whole argument completely stupid.

On the other side... are white people that try to get their skin tanned in summer intelligent people who are trying to get less intelligent?

you must be black.

[STTBoss]

I am not at all an anti-racist fanatic nor am I black, but this study means shit no matter if its conclusion is true or not. Intelligence is only one of bazillion human qualities (often much more important for achieving success in various areas) and the study should include the rest of the qualities as well. Chances are that the blacks would have the last laugh.

[sortie]

Originally Posted by Jet

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_te...cle3067222.ece

Originally Posted by DNA Dude

He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

Maybe he should find those genes first to back up his claim because without that he is just another person claiming his personal beliefs as fact.

[montel]

dont feed the trolls.

Originally Posted by Jet

He said there was a natural desire that all human beings should be equal but "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true".

A scientist said that? Any other sources than independent.co.uk?

[_Richard_]

i wonder why he would say that.. he must know he's full of shit

[JP-pornshooter]

does anyone believe in evolution?
i dont think it is a matter of skin color intelligent breeding habits makes for a smarter and more intelligent next generation of humans, thats how we got out of the caves.. and some "tribes" came out of the caves faster than others...does it make them more intelligent? possible.

[xNetworx]

There are intelligent people from all races

[yumma]

it's just a question of culture education, no races
white are the same as black

[pornask]

LOL, you can totally tell which people on here are black

[Penthouse Tony]

He's claiming that people separated by geography evolve differently. It's true for other human characteristics so I'm willing to consider that argument for intelligence although I doubt that any difference would be significant.

Western policies towards African countries were wrongly based on an assumption that black people were as clever as their white counterparts.

This is the part I have a problem with. He needs to give specifics on where policies have failed and what would have worked better. Otherwise he's just full of shit when saying that.

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by Big_Red

and you need a scientist for this?

No shit?

Originally Posted by Worldnet

This has been proven before by scientific study, and then shot down as racist as soon as the results were released.

Yeah, anything that is unpleasant must be bullshit.

Originally Posted by OzMan

he's a brave man for making that comment, but if he has the proof to back it up then why not

Yep. I agree.

[a1ka1ine]

white ppl cant jump, thats been scientifically proven for years!

[Drake]

Originally Posted by Sagi_AFF

He's claiming that people separated by geography evolve differently. It's true for other human characteristics so I'm willing to consider that argument for intelligence although I doubt that any difference would be significant.

Correct, and it is not new (lynn, jensen, rushton, have made the same arguments before). I don't think anybody would deny the possibility of at least average genetic differences between groups. However, since the genes that encode for intelligence still elude us, what we have is correlational data provided by things like IQ tests. I look forward to the day when we can pinpoint what genes in the brain account for intelligence and see how they can be manipulated.

Legitimate debate can be made of Watson's opinion about this and what he believes it means about Western policies. I wonder what specific examples he would give to support this contention or suggestions he would offer.

James Watson is known for making controversial statements on a variety of subjects.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Watson is certainly not politically correct, and I give him alot credit for taking a view that is extremely unpopular.

IQ differences between racial groups is certainly possible, in my view. I think the jury is really out on this subject. Watson himself says that knowledge of the specific intelligence genes is still to be uncovered.

The matter should be studied further, and without the influence of politics --those are the ideal conditions, which, of course, do not exist.

[minusonebit]

Maybe when Bush croaks someone will get a DNA sample from his corpse so we can find out what makes a Bush, and then we can work on eradicating it from the gene pool. Now thats genocide anyone can get behind!

[[ScreaM]]

Wow good info.

[pr0]

I think Asians are in general much smarter than Europeans.

Now with that said

I think Europeans are much better creative thinkers than the Asians.

I think eastern Europeans (who are a mix of both) are less creative & intelligent, but more quickly adaptive to copy both.

(Did this upset anyone? Of course not, its perfectly acceptable in todays political climate to compare Europeans & Asians.)

These comments make me a racist? Nope....a racist is someone who thinks their race is superior in every way to another race.

What it does make me is a free thinker. Free to think & say what i feel. Without worrying about whether or not what i say is popular at the moment.

All great thinkers in history followed this free-thinking rule. And it got some of them killed, some ostracized, some in jail & some deported.

I stand by my right to make observations as I see them. Not as I am told to see them.

I believe this man should be free to make scientific observations as he sees fit as well. It doesn't make him a racist, or a bigot, it makes him a scientist.

I for one think this area of research is great, it could finally end some of the stupidity we see in hate groups. The more definitive answers we have the better. Lets not say we're all the same, just because it goes down easier. Lets have scientific fact to back it up.

[Pornwolf]

I think we should let Darwin's theory take it's course unabated in Africa.

They've had dozens of centuries to work shit out over there. If they still can't make clean water, or figure out they need to move to get it, then whatever happens to them is supposed to happen. What are you supposed to do for people like that? It's too late to try to teach a tribe how to grow crops.

Over here in America and in western parts of the world there is an obvious difference between black, white and everything else. There's several generations of black people who have relatively recently been raised in abject poverty. Their actions, intelligence and outlook reflect that. It's very similar to that of white trash.

But, on the other hand, we know you can't say that all black people are idiots because there's tons of incredibly smart ones. It all depends on how a person is raised.

There was a study done not long ago that tracked the intelligence of orphaned siblings that ended up being raised by different families. Common thought led people to believe that intelligence is genetic. But after the study they found out that in almost every case the upbringing of the child was the determining factor of how intelligent and motivated the child became.

[Violetta]

Monkeys are smarten then all of us... enough said

[Kenko]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

.....It all depends on how a person is raised.

There was a study done not long ago that tracked the intelligence of orphaned siblings that ended up being raised by different families. Common thought led people to believe that intelligence is genetic. But after the study they found out that in almost every case the upbringing of the child was the determining factor of how intelligent and motivated the child became.

Studies on adopted kids and twins show that there IS a big link between intelligence and genetics.
"No study of the causes of intelligence has failed to find a certain and often substantial heritability. What varies from study to study is the amount that can be attributed to heritability."

Wilderdom.com/personality/L4-1IntelligenceNatureVsNurture.html

Almost all scientists agree that upbringing has a huge factor on intelligence, but so do your genes.
Whether it is 50/50 or not is debatable, but the idea of intelligence not being partly inherited would go against evolution itself.

In a way this seems like common sense.. If a smart guy bangs some big tit stripper, he shouldn't be too surprised if the kid doesn't turn out to be Baby Genius.

[sweetcuties]

Ever notice the same 10 people (approx) in everyone of these racist threads... what a bunch of dumb fucks

[rapmaster]

He seems kind of senile now... but one of the greatest scientists of our time no doubt

[nico-t]

this was a proven fact a long time ago, but like someone already said here its been buried under the forced political correctness of our society.

For the ones saying 'there are intelligent people in every race', yes ofcourse, but we're talking about the average here.

Im white, and these are the facts -
Race intelligence level:
asian > white > black
This is known and proven all over the world just search google for it.

Am i now a racist to whites and blacks altough I am white myself? Grow up and face the facts.

[KingK7]

I am hung like an asian

[minusonebit]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Ever notice the same 10 people (approx) in everyone of these racist threads... what a bunch of dumb fucks

This is a racist thread? We are discussing a FACT of SCIENCE.

[Fap]

let the racism begin..

[D]

I think it's just that he's a cranky old man.

[hateman]

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Ever notice the same 10 people (approx) in everyone of these racist threads... what a bunch of dumb fucks

racist thread?

The guy scientist guy is a prominent DNA researcher and a Noble Prize winner.
You are a dumb gallery poster.

Guess who's words weight more?


(you just confirmed that blacks are indeed stupid)

[D]

Originally Posted by hateman

racist thread?

The guy scientist guy is a prominent DNA researcher and a Noble Prize winner.
You are a dumb gallery poster.

Guess who's words weight more?

Scientific-infused racism is still racism. Racism is the concept that racial differences infer superior or inferior ability. I think calling this a racist matter is pretty much in line with the dictionary.

Dr. Watson is, generally, saying that 'there's no reason to think that during the period our populations were "separated" that one population did not inherit more genetic markers significant to intelligence over another."

To me, while he has a point, it also sounds rather meh... in regards to evolutionary time, the current models suggest that our populations weren't apart all that long.... and since then, racial populations have intermingled enough that whose to say what genetic ancestry who has.... it's all a crap shoot. Our populations, especially in the West, don't really hold any racial identity... nor have they in at least the last couple thousand years... so any discernibly superior genetic material is probably all over the place by now... throughout people of all races in our population.

It takes a _lot_ less time to disperse genetic material than it does to build up a unique genetic profile in any population.

And, that said, basing someone's intelligence on the color of their skin is still a profoundly stupid direction to head, imho.

[xmas13]

Originally Posted by nico-t

this was a proven fact a long time ago, but like someone already said here its been buried under the forced political correctness of our society.

For the ones saying 'there are intelligent people in every race', yes ofcourse, but we're talking about the average here.

Im white, and these are the facts -
Race intelligence level:
asian > white > black
This is known and proven all over the world just search google for it.

Am i now a racist to whites and blacks altough I am white myself? Grow up and face the facts.

every intelligent person knows this to be the case. they also know there is no point in arguing with less than intelligent people on the topic.

[D]

Originally Posted by nico-t

this was a proven fact a long time ago, but like someone already said here its been buried under the forced political correctness of our society.

For the ones saying 'there are intelligent people in every race', yes ofcourse, but we're talking about the average here.

Im white, and these are the facts -
Race intelligence level:
asian > white > black
This is known and proven all over the world just search google for it.

Am i now a racist to whites and blacks altough I am white myself? Grow up and face the facts.

Originally Posted by esnem

every intelligent person knows this to be the case. they also know there is no point in arguing with less than intelligent people on the topic.

Be it 50 or a hundred or a thousand years from now, everyone is going to have fucked everyone else to the point that we're all popping out the same color, and everyone's genetic material dispersed everywhere. We're a global population now - no longer defined by our geographical boundaries.

It's not urging political correctness as much as it's attempting to dissuade backward thinking, I think. Even if there are different intelligence markers - which has yet to be "proven" by any real sense of the word - despite those experiments you refer to... it's not going to matter in the future, so why disparage or encourage disparagement of an individual because of it?

Seems a rather stupid pursuit... for an intelligent person.

Originally Posted by D

Be it 50 or a hundred or a thousand years from now, everyone is going to have fucked everyone else to the point that we're all popping out the same color, and everyone's genetic material dispersed everywhere. We're a global population now - no longer defined by our geographical boundaries.

It's not urging political correctness as much as it's attempting to dissuade backward thinking, I think. Even if there are different intelligence markers - which has yet to be "proven" by any real sense of the word - despite those experiments you refer to... it's not going to matter in the future, so why disparage or encourage disparagement of an individual because of it?

Seems a rather stupid pursuit... for an intelligent person.

while i agree with most everything you've wrote, i would argue that it's a rather stupid pursuit to disparage a valid scientific hypothesis -no matter what the future outcome of a global population might be or whose feelings get hurt.

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by esnem

while i agree with most everything you've wrote, i would argue that it's a rather stupid pursuit to disparage a valid scientific hypothesis -no matter what the future outcome of a global population might be or whose feelings get hurt.

i'm not gonna waste my time

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by D

Scientific-infused racism is still racism. Racism is the concept that racial differences infer superior or inferior ability. I think calling this a racist matter is pretty much in line with the dictionary.

Dr. Watson is, generally, saying that 'there's no reason to think that during the period our populations were "separated" that one population did not inherit more genetic markers significant to intelligence over another."

To me, while he has a point, it also sounds rather meh... in regards to evolutionary time, the current models suggest that our populations weren't apart all that long.... and since then, racial populations have intermingled enough that whose to say what genetic ancestry who has.... it's all a crap shoot. Our populations, especially in the West, don't really hold any racial identity... nor have they in at least the last couple thousand years... so any discernibly superior genetic material is probably all over the place by now... throughout people of all races in our population.

It takes a _lot_ less time to disperse genetic material than it does to build up a unique genetic profile in any population.

And, that said, basing someone's intelligence on the color of their skin is still a profoundly stupid direction to head, imho.

Finally, someone with some fucking brains... well said

[habibjr]

dont think thats true..i met some of the dumbest white people & i met some of the smartest people who were black. Race has nothing to do with it..its how you were rasied

[D]

Originally Posted by esnem

while i agree with most everything you've wrote, i would argue that it's a rather stupid pursuit to disparage a valid scientific hypothesis -no matter what the future outcome of a global population might be or whose feelings get hurt.

I agree with you... and, frankly, when I was rereading the post that you quoted, I did cringe at the thought that I was maybe promoting the wrong kind of science... because I do feel that science should be blind to any form of social bias.

But dealing with ideas of such a nature in scientific circles - where people truly understand the material, and work toward discovery one way or the other is one thing. Disseminating such hypotheses among the masses - and thus giving hate-mongers validation, with nothing but speculative and hypothetical science attached is perhaps irresponsible on Dr. Watson's part, I think.

As the adage goes, "a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Like I said, I think it's just maybe that he's become a bitter old man.

Originally Posted by D

I agree with you... and, frankly, when I was rereading the post that you quoted, I did cringe at the thought that I was maybe promoting the wrong kind of science... because I do feel that science should be blind to any form of social bias.

But dealing with ideas of such a nature in scientific circles - where people truly understand the material, and work toward discovery one way or the other is one thing. Disseminating such hypotheses among the masses - and thus giving hate-mongers validation, with nothing but speculative and hypothetical science attached is perhaps irresponsible on Dr. Watson's part, I think.

i still don't think scientists should allow hate-mongers or the politically correct to influence their decision to disseminate their hypotheses to the masses.

i'm not defending Watson either, what he wrote about black employees was completely off point, unproven and just plain wrong in my experience.

sweetcuties, shut the fuck up you idiot.

[sweetcuties]

Originally Posted by esnem

i still don't think scientists should allow hate-mongers or the politically correct to influence their decision to disseminate their hypotheses to the masses.

i'm not defending Watson either, what he wrote about black employees was completely off point, unproven and just plain wrong in my experience.

sweetcuties, shut the fuck up you idiot.

Yep, I'm gonna shut the fuck up because you said so, lmao.

BTW, you make a great rep for Vivid... I noticed you took your sig down, I guess you realized you fucked up

[fatfoo]

shit i hotlinked a pic......

[Drake]

Originally Posted by D

But dealing with ideas of such a nature in scientific circles - where people truly understand the material, and work toward discovery one way or the other is one thing. Disseminating such hypotheses among the masses - and thus giving hate-mongers validation, with nothing but speculative and hypothetical science attached is perhaps irresponsible on Dr. Watson's part, I think.

I agree with you and Esnem. I think that Watson's hypothesis is valid and can be researched if that's something he or others are interested in. However, his opinions about Africa or Black employees is completely unscientific and completely irresponsible on his part (thus, I do think that he is likely a bitter old coot). Condemning him on this basis is more than fair in my opinion because the statements are in fact, bigotted.

As for the nature vs nurture debate: I think that nurture plays a much larger role for most people, but that nature plays a more significant role for the exceptional among us who are able to transend the limitations of their own time. Most of us regardless of race, share similar faculties, and we are heavily influenced by the things around us. Furthermore, nature influences nurture (genetics) to a great degree - if we accept evolution, nature is practically the primemover of genetics; and it is what provides all the raw materials internally and externally.

If somebody wishes to study population groups for various metric differences, that's fine. There is an inherent danger in this, but that should not stop the pursuit of knowledge. It is likely that we can all benefit from it, if that same knowledge is used for good. Personally, I would stick with INDIVIDUAL differences rather than race because of the the numerous confounding variables. But that's just the approach I would take.

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Yep, I'm gonna shut the fuck up because you said so, lmao.

BTW, you make a great rep for Vivid... I noticed you took your sig down, I guess you realized you fucked up

yea i'm a rep, blow me.