The Eminem Show - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

This doesn't sound much different than the death metal I listened to 15 years ago; bands like Napalm Death, etc.

Oh christ.

Case in point...

My grandmother cant tell the difference between Iron Maiden and Limp Bizkit.

I am familiar with all forms of death metal and all its derivatives, and there is no way in hell you can compare them to Napalm Death.

You are my grandmother.

Quote:

That "Dont try and dissect it. Dont try and understand it. Dont try and compare it to anything you have ever heard" is bullshit. These guys never listened to DRI, Black Flag, or Agnostic Front? Bet they did.

You are comparing so cal thrash to so cal punk to NY hardcore. Of course they are influenced by old AF, 90% if bands in hardcore are. Not since they moved to fat wreck however. Now they are sellout warp tour cockholsters.

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

you are correct.

Nice way to burst [LeBrat]'s bubble.

I've heard this shit quite a few times... ('shit' not in a bad sense, I liked it, quite a bit...)

What a fucking joke. Congrats on proving you know absolutely nothing about hardcore. I am not surprised however, I figured relatively few of you would be able to pick up on the subtleties that differentiate this genre from any other.

I suppose Pantera is hardcore?

I run a label that specializes in hardcore. Its my business to know hardcore. You dont hear me debating you on gloryhole protocol. Dont even debate me on this. You are severely outclassed in this area. All of you.

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

What a fucking joke. Congrats on proving you know absolutely nothing about hardcore. I am not surprised however, I figured relatively few of you would be able to pick up on the subtleties that differentiate this genre from any other.

I suppose Pantera is hardcore?

I run a label that specializes in hardcore. Its my business to know hardcore. You dont hear me debating you on gloryhole protocol. Dont even debate me on this. You are severely outclassed in this area. All of you.

so you know ONE sub-genre of music... wow... how great...

I suppose its the only good/real music?

Im still waiting on your answer to my previous posts

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

so you know ONE sub-genre of music... wow... how great...

I suppose its the only good/real music?

Im still waiting on your answer to my previous posts

Love proving your ignorance eh?

Hardcore is an umbrella term. I figured someone so acquainted with hardcore knew this.

There is youthcrew, sxe, vegan, krishnacore, metalcore, eurocore, emocore, screamo, rapcore, skacore, oicore... any number of hardcore crossbreeds. Some I dont like, and some others dont agree belong under the term "hardcore". Stay ignorant... where it is safe. Put the U2 back in and pretend we never had this conversation.

Blood for Blood

Blood for Blood. Hardcore Gods. Notice how they sound similar to Redline. Hmmm... a pattern insinuating a genre?

No Warning

No Warning, 17 year old sxe kids out of Toronto throwing down some good old school style youth crew hardcore.

Danny_C · 09-03-2002, 12:14 PM

I think people are missing Labret's point, which I agree with 100%.

I've done a bit of studio work, and played in some bands, and I know the process that happens to good bands... and there's a reason that if it's popular, then it's corporate soulless garbage...

Say I have a really good, talented band with a sound that is my own, but just happens to be close enough to the music of the day that I manage to catch the attention of some record executives. They come to me, tell me they want to sign me... so I show up to their studio, and they have a producer waiting on me. "Hey, I already have a producer!" Their response: Not anymore. This is your producer. Don't like it? Leave.

So in order to keep my record deal, I have to record with their producer. That's fine - it's not like he's writing the music. But then he starts arranging my music, tweaking the nobs and sliders in the exact way he tweaked them for Janet Jackson just the other day - because it's a formula that has been proven to work. He tells me to play things a certain way. Essentially, the producer is the boss... he's the guy who knows how to make an album sell. That's why he's hired by the label - because he knows how to make a hit album. They do market studies just like any other industry, and they water down every piece of art that comes through their studios, turning it into a clone of the last thing that sold millions of copies. Their job is to protect their investments.... NOT to create innovative music. And that's the problem with pop music.

Some good bands (an eclectic mix): Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Fantomas, The Melvins, John Zorn, Kid 606, Atomsmasher, Merzbow, Don Caballero, Dillinger Escape Plan, Mr. Bungle, Amon Tobin, Lovage, Medeski Martin & Wood, Hrvatski, Skinny Puppy, Ohgr, Tomahawk, Speedranch, Venetian Snares... just to name a few.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:18 PM

I run a label that specializes in hardcore. Its my business to know hardcore. You dont hear me debating you on gloryhole protocol. Dont even debate me on this. You are severely outclassed in this area. All of you.

---------------------------

Labret,

A 4-track player and 2 garage bands does not constitute a label.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:19 PM

Danny, Jesus. I haven't seen you in 6 years. What the FUCK are you up to nowadays?

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:20 PM

Colin => Your sister is a total and complete moron if she can't name any of the Beatles. Not because they're such a great band (frankly, I think they suck), but because anyone who is not blind and deaf has heard of them, even in the past 15 years. She apparently lacks even the most remote sense of historical/cultural knowledge.
And no, being a straight A student does not exclude you from the predicate "idiot" (there are many kinds of idiots, and this is only one of those).

Also, if you think Eminem and Linkin Park are good, you yourself are also an idiot. Not because millions of people listen to them, but because they are fabricated.
There is nothing original about them. Nothing creative. They are like romance novels written for lonely housewives - maybe entertaining, but certainly far from art.
You see, clever marketing does not equal art. Art requires originality, thought and profoundness. A Big Mac is not art, however tasty it might be.

Besides that, anyone that can relate to Eminem's lyrics or those of Linkin Park is a pathetic loser who has been overtaken by postmodernism without even knowing it. (as a sidenote: Linkin Park's lyrics were written with the specific goal of relating to the average unpopular teenager's feelings. Wonder what that says about you....)

Labret => If you really believe that that is a "good" band you most certainly aren't worthy of the respect I had for you. It's as unoriginal as Britney Spears, there are many thousands of other bands around doing exactly the same thing.
And you talked about "only shaved heads and tattoos"... If people really are so socially handicapped that they can't feel good about themselves without fitting on a uniform and a lifestyle to go along with it all I can do is feel sorry for them, because they are obviously either too stupid or too shallow to come up with something for themselves.
It's funny how you seem to judge music purely by it's number of followers instead of it's artistic merit. Does the quality of music somehow diminish if more people buy the cd? That's too stupid for words...

TarPy · 09-03-2002, 12:20 PM

Labret, it's people like you that make me sick. Seriously, it's the same shit different day. Yea, there are sublties (sp?), but I mean if you eat McDonald's at different places around the world, each franchise has a SLIGHTLY different taste, but you seem to think you are special because you noticed.

Listen, just because someone sells a couple of million records doesn't mean they suck. If you can't tell the difference from Eminem to Linkin Park, then my friend you are a sad sack of over pompous shit.

Some bands are crap, some bands are good and made to be crap. For instance, if you've ever heard Britney Spears or Mariah Carey try to sing some one else's classic vocal masterpieces, they are amazing singers, however, instead they made shitty synthed voice pop shit that makes me want to pop my eardrums with a toothpick. so, yea, Britney Spears' albums and music suck, but her voice is great, not that you ever hear it on her albums, because it's processed to fuck and back. But you are the type of assmunch who could like a band that could make 5 albums that are so identical in style that I could switch all the tracks between them and re-release them and it would sound coherant, but after loving the first 3 and attending their 25 person shows, they get a contract, make a video, and because they throw the same damn show and 75,000 people show up, you say that those newest 2 albums are sold out corperate shit. Yes, I think the mainstream are mostly sheeple, but it's supply and demand and what industry wants to supply is what we are more exposed to, but I still like grunge, but they just don't release it much anymore, but that doesn't mean that when it was popular it sucked. If nirvana released nevermind now, it wouldn't make the charts, and you'd love it, but as it stands now, i'm guessing that you think it was packaged anti-sociatal produced corperate shit...

ugh, you hate it because you think it makes you cool. It just makes you a moron who thinks he's cool because he does something that no one else does. But instead you yourself are sheeple, because the minutes MTV made a video for one of your bands, you'd probably go listen to Mariah Carey, and love the movie Glitter, just because no one else does any more.

Labret = 1/Sheeple

You react the same as they do, just inversely, but you are just as influenced by what corperate america sells, you just avoid it rather than buy it. Buy what you like, not what you aren't supposed to like.

TarPy

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:21 PM

Labret,

I said it doesn't sound MUCH different. I didn't say it sounded the same. Given 15 years, it's pretty similar.

Rap has evolved a lot more in that time than hardcore.

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:25 PM

I agree I dont know "hardcore" as much as you... actually, I know very little about it...

I know very little about rap, metal or pop.

What I know, is what music I like and why. And I can tell you the number of record they sell doesnt factor in my judgement. Wheter its none or 10 millions.

but what you are saying, is anything you dont like is crap. And if you cant see how stupid of a statement that is, than all hope is lost

now, answer me this:

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

But [LeBrat], answer me this, is Beck a corprate sellout who's soul has vacated his body because his album made it to Top40?

If you say yes, than you are just a vandictative ass who doesnt know shit about music.
Beck does exactly the type of music he wants. Some of it happened to please the "masses". After Odelay, he decided to do a New wave Country album that didnt sell for shit to the "masses".

Or consider the Beastie Boys, are they souless corporate zombie too because they have videos??

also, listen to Gaffer, its good

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

Labret,

A 4-track player and 2 garage bands does not constitute a label.

Thats what it comes down to eh?

I am part of a label. Not a studio. I dont do mastering, I dont do pressing, I dont do recording. All of the above is cheap enough to outsourced to others who are good at it.

I pay for all of the above and handle distro. Thats what a label does. Size wise, we handle moderate range production.

True, I am not putting out anything you would see on MTV, but that is not the point like I have been saying all along. Congrats on proving my point.

The scene is to keep people like you out, and those true to the scene... in.

I do know people with a four track and a 500 dollar budget, and they produce good music. Some of the greatest bands I know put out stuff on a four track. Keep showing the ignorance and proving my point.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:29 PM

if you think Eminem and Linkin Park are good, you yourself are also an idiot.

---------

Punkworld,

So you claim that idiocy or lack of it can be ascertained by one's taste in music? This is interesting. Tell me more.

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Labret => If you really believe that that is a "good" band you most certainly aren't worthy of the respect I had for you. It's as unoriginal as Britney Spears, there are many thousands of other bands around doing exactly the same thing.
And you talked about "only shaved heads and tattoos"... If people really are so socially handicapped that they can't feel good about themselves without fitting on a uniform and a lifestyle to go along with it all I can do is feel sorry for them, because they are obviously either too stupid or too shallow to come up with something for themselves.
It's funny how you seem to judge music purely by it's number of followers instead of it's artistic merit. Does the quality of music somehow diminish if more people buy the cd? That's too stupid for words...

Holy shit take the punk out of name you fucking cry baby. You are a fucking disgrace if you dont recognize hardcore as anything but original.

I bet the punk you listen to stands for nothing but fat wreck and other major label punk.

Fuck off, you are a fucking disgrace. You are case in point.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:31 PM

Labret,

I was just kidding actually. I honestly wish you all the luck in the world with your label, whatever
your goals. I don't believe it makes you an expert on music but i really do hope you get out of it what you want from it. :-)

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
Labret,

I said it doesn't sound MUCH different. I didn't say it sounded the same. Given 15 years, it's pretty similar.

Rap has evolved a lot more in that time than hardcore.

Hardcore has come along way since the Cromags, Youth Brigade, Minor Threat, Gorilla Biscuits, Madball etc etc etc in the mid 80s to where it is now. Dont discuss hardcore if you dont know hardcore.

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
if you think Eminem and Linkin Park are good, you yourself are also an idiot.

---------

Punkworld,

So you claim that idiocy or lack of it can be ascertained by one's taste in music? This is interesting. Tell me more.

More:

If you think a big mac is haute cuisine, you are an idiot. If you think the bridges of madison county is a literary masterpiece, you are an idiot. If you think linkin park is good....
Fill in the rest yourself.

While they might be entertaining, they are most certainly no more than that.

mika · 09-03-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

If you think a big mac is haute cuisine, you are an idiot.

Correction: if you think big mac is GOOD, [insert]

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TarPy

Listen, just because someone sells a couple of million records doesn't mean they suck. If you can't tell the difference from Eminem to Linkin Park, then my friend you are a sad sack of over pompous shit.

Congrats on not paying attention idiot.

Any halfwhit fucking mongoloid can spot the obvious style differences, but it all comes from the same place and the same producers.

Dumbass. Pay attention or keep your mouth shut.

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Hardcore has come along way since the Cromags, Youth Brigade, Minor Threat, Gorilla Biscuits, Madball etc etc etc in the mid 80s to where it is now. Dont discuss hardcore if you dont know hardcore.

I dont believe we were discussing hardcore... just the fact that you are narrow-minded when it comes to music.

also, MTV >DOES< dictate what you listen to. A lot more than me actually. because me, I dont care one way or another, if a band is on MTV or not. I make a judgement myself.

also, what do you think of Vision of Disorder?

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Holy shit take the punk out of name you fucking cry baby. You are a fucking disgrace if you dont recognize hardcore as anything but original.

I bet the punk you listen to stands for nothing but fat wreck and other major label punk.

Fuck off, you are a fucking disgrace. You are case in point.

Well, most interesting. Resorting to name-calling instead of argumentation. What's the matter, can't handle the fact that people see you are in fact as unoriginal as the average britney-fan?

Oh, and by the way, the punk I listen to is about as underground as what you listen to (mostly same genre as well). Only difference is that I can see things in perspective, and you can't.
All you want is to feel just as "elite" as SleazyDream, but in music...

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

I dont believe we were discussing hardcore... just the fact that you are narrow-minded when it comes to music.

also, MTV >DOES< dictate what you listen to. A lot more than me actually. because me, I dont care one way or another, if a band is on MTV or not. I make a judgement myself.

also, what do you think of Vision of Disorder?

Sellout metal core. Used to be good. Started sucking corporate cock. Band changed, sound changed. Lost all respect for them.

And how does mtv dictate what I listen to when nothing I listen to even remotely comes close to MTV product. And I bet if I pulled open your cd case I would see 90% corporate ass rock.

I bet you like Creed.

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

Well, most interesting. Resorting to name-calling instead of argumentation. What's the matter, can't handle the fact that people see you are in fact as unoriginal as the average britney-fan?

Oh, and by the way, the punk I listen to is about as underground as what you listen to (mostly same genre as well). Only difference is that I can see things in perspective, and you can't.
All you want is to feel just as "elite" as SleazyDream, but in music...

Its not punk to cry.

And who said anything about underground. You are the kinda wannabe punk who likes labeling.

I would never label myself "underground"... that is so gay.

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Its not punk to cry.

I guess you never heard of emo

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:43 PM

I like Big Macs and I like filet mignons

I like Linkin Park and I like Chopin

I like Stephen King, Hunter Thompson, Hemingway, and Herman Melville.

I like physics, mathematics, philosophy, history, and genetics.

I like New York, Miami, Puerto Rico, and Barcelona.

I like Dali and Monet.

I like programming and porn.

I like big butts and I cannot lie

Last I checked, none of these make one an idiot. if so, check yoself and yer education fool!

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld

I guess you never heard of emo

Thats why its called emo and not punk.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:44 PM

"Well, most interesting. Resorting to name-calling instead of argumentation. "

Hey punkworld, you call me an Idiot and now are upset that Labret calls you names? Yer a total hypocrite.

TarPy · 09-03-2002, 12:45 PM

Labret, what about the rest of my post... LOL can't a corperation make something good regardless if it's fake?

TarPy

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]
I bet you like Creed.

Them are fighting words!

ahahhaahah

no, I cant stand creed... or nickleback or whatever else is called "rock" these days....

give me noisy, overdriven rock'n'roll!

Im a little pissed that rock'n'roll is flavor of the month right now (white strips, the vine, etc...) but hey, the people that were listening to swing music are listening to r'n'r now and will be listening to something else next year...

Im R'N'R4L ;)

[LeBrat], I know you absolutly want to stay alone in your "I listen to original music that you dont understand" club, but Im sorry to say, Im in it too... Ive been to plenty of shows where there were only 25 people...

Best shows ive seen were in small bars... Only went to see one show in an arena (Nine Inch Nails) and the sound sucked and the atmosphere was nowhere as good as in a smoked up 200 people filled bar!

So Rock On [LeBrat], Rock on! \m/

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
I like Big Macs and I like filet mignons

I like Linkin Park and I like Chopin

I like Stephen King, Hunter Thompson, Hemingway, and Herman Melville.

I like physics, mathematics, philosophy, history, and genetics.

I like New York, Miami, Puerto Rico, and Barcelona.

I like Dali and Monet.

I like programming and porn.

I like big butts and I cannot lie

Last I checked, none of these make one an idiot. if so, check yoself and yer education fool!

It's not the fact that you like them that makes you an idiot, it's the fact that you apparently can't distinguish the differences (in quality, among other things) between them that makes you an idiot.

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:46 PM

"Dont discuss hardcore if you dont know hardcore."

Labret, ok, you follow that advice too. No more talk of pop or rap for you, ok?

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

I dont believe we were discussing hardcore... just the fact that you are narrow-minded when it comes to music.

Not even close.

I listen to an amazing amount of black metal, viking metal, real punk, ska, Oi!, classical.

I just recorgnize Top40 for what it is. And for that I am narrow minded. Pushaw.

mika · 09-03-2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin

I like Stephen King, Hunter Thompson, Hemingway, and Herman Melville.

Not saying you're an idiot (as I probably should here, heh), just curious, did you find Moby Dick a good book?
I really didn't get it.. is there something I'm missing? A big picture or something.. Because as far as entertainment was concerned, it was boring

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
"Dont discuss hardcore if you dont know hardcore."

Labret, ok, you follow that advice too. No more talk of pop or rap for you, ok?

But I do understand pop and rap. It surrounds me all day long, it is unavoidable. I can sing along with every god damn pop song out there, how can you not, that is how it is written. I hear it at bars, clubs, stores, malls, radio... so I am more than qualified to give my opinion.

You people on the other hand, it is all you know.

Sheeple.

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Not even close.

I listen to an amazing amount of black metal, viking metal, real punk, ska, Oi!, classical.

I just recorgnize Top40 for what it is. And for that I am narrow minded. Pushaw.

As Im always willing to learn:

What is vicking metal? Do they pillage and plunder between shows?

also what ska do you listen to?

mika · 09-03-2002, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by [Labret]

Sheeple.

Dude your posts are losing its entertainment value. Why not limit these posts already, not so funny any more

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:52 PM

"It's the fact that you like them that makes you an idiot, it's the fact that you apparently can't distinguish the differences (in quality, among other things) between them that makes you an idiot.
"

punkworld,

Since you're such a cocky little bitch ...

I know more about anything than you and I'll back it up. I challenge you to a live game (in jeopardy format) on one of the porn radio shows. Do you accept the challenge? I'll arrange everything for a live internet broadcast, get a host, etc.

Here's my email address.

[email protected]

Email me for details, I'll call you on the phone, and we'll make an announcement here on GFY so everyone can come hear.

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
"It's the fact that you like them that makes you an idiot, it's the fact that you apparently can't distinguish the differences (in quality, among other things) between them that makes you an idiot.
"

punkworld,

Since you're such a cocky little bitch ...

I know more about anything than you and I'll back it up. I challenge you to a live game (in jeopardy format) on one of the porn radio shows. Do you accept the challenge? I'll arrange everything for a live internet broadcast, get a host, etc.

Here's my email address.

[email protected]

Email me for details, I'll call you on the phone, and we'll make an announcement here on GFY so everyone can come hear.

If you will do the radio thing in Dutch, sure

(btw, wtf is jeopardy format?)

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:56 PM

Mika,

I didn't read Moby Dick. I've read a lot of Melville's short stories though. My favorite is Billy Budd. I also liked "The Lightning Rod Man"

DrGuile · 09-03-2002, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punkworld
(btw, wtf is jeopardy format?)

The answer is: "Im a cocky little bitch"

*gling**gling*

Who is punkworld?

That is correct!

*Fake applause*

ADL Colin · 09-03-2002, 12:58 PM

Hey everyone,

I have to run. My new fiance and I are going to go have some FUN :-)

Punkworld, I don't know anyone to it in Dutch. Your English seems fine though. ;-)

Punkworld, Labret .. it's been fun arguing. Let's be friends, now.

SCOOTER · 09-03-2002, 01:04 PM

Hey Colin ..... I know your song was all about love !!

Dont forget i know the real Colin

your far from an Idiot!!

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
I know more about anything than you and I'll back it up.

But let's just start with the following questions:

1. What is the ethics theory known as "evolutionary ethics", and to which other ethics theories is this theory closest?
2. Who wrote "God is a Taoist"?
3. What did Tertullian say about philosophy and how did he contradict himself?
4. Why did Berkeley consider his theory non-sceptic?
5. What are the 2 main formulations of Kant's categorical imperative?
6. What is commonly known as the "hard problem"?
7. Which musical genre started the whole punk movement?
8. Who proved verification to be an invalid method of scientific proof?
9. In which part of the Bible is it said to the Jews that they should exterminate all the people living in cities in which there are heathens?
10. What is the ontological "proof" for the existence of God?

(these are all very easy questions, harder ones will come later on if you manage to answer all these correctly. please note that since you posted the challenge, I will only ask questions, and supply answers if you fail to answer any of them. since you said you know more about anything than I do, answering all the questions correctly is the only way to prove it. (I never made any claims, so the burden of proving is upon you))

Libertine · 09-03-2002, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin
Hey everyone,

I have to run. My new fiance and I are going to go have some FUN :-)

Punkworld, I don't know anyone to it in Dutch. Your English seems fine though. ;-)

Punkworld, Labret .. it's been fun arguing. Let's be friends, now.

Ah, you already quit the argument. Too bad. It's been fun

(btw, you don't know dutch? at least one thing I know more about than you

)

Danny_C · 09-03-2002, 01:20 PM

I think the point is getting lost here, which really shouldn't be whether a band is popular or not, but whether their music comes from an independent label or a major corporate label (which usually does, incidentally, determine whether or not they become popular). If you only draw that distinction, then I think it's clear that a lot of indie labels are putting out great material by bands that would never be considered by the MTV crowd, and it's unfortunate. Meanwhile, the major labels are making millionaires out of talentless pretty faces like Linkin Park and Brittney Spears. That's why the indie bands (and their fans) who refuse to conform to the cookie cutter formula of pop music become so bitter toward the entire pop scene.

The Melvins, for instance, basically invented grunge in the 90's... they were a local band from Seattle, but were way too "wierd" to ever be accepted by a major label (I say they invented grunge, but they never sounded anything like the corporate version you might recognize). Kurt Cobain used to check them out at the clubs, and was inspired by their music... and that's how Nirvana was born. Nirvana lucked out, were picked up by a major label, lost the raw sound they had started with on Bleach, and became a new brand of corporate rock. Millions of clones followed. To pay back their debt to the genius band that inspired them (and I do mean genius), they pulled strings and got The Melvins signed to Atlantic. Unfortunately, The Melvins refused to conform, so Atlantic refused to promote their albums... and after the contract was up, they dropped them. The Melvins held onto their integrity, kept doing what they did best, and moved back to the indie labels. And they're still doing it... they're not huge, but they have one of the most dedicated fan bases in the history of music... because they deserve it, and because they constantly push boundaries. They even piss off their own fans by putting out completely contradictory albums, making it impossible to label or categorize them... and they're completely unapologetic. They're artists. That's why I respect them more than just about any other musicians out there.

Now, meanwhile, Nsync is standing on a stage accepting an award for corporate cookie-cutter unoriginal garbage that they do nothing more than dance to. If you were a talented musician who had been neatly pushed under the carpet and ignored, wouldn't YOU be a bit bitter? If you were a fan, wouldn't YOU lash out at the standards of taste in this country?

P.S. Hi Colin.

mika · 09-03-2002, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Danny_C

Now, meanwhile, Nsync is standing on a stage accepting an award for corporate cookie-cutter unoriginal garbage that they do nothing more than dance to. If you were a talented musician who had been neatly pushed under the carpet and ignored, wouldn't YOU be a bit bitter? If you were a fan, wouldn't YOU lash out at the standards of taste in this country?

Not sure if I get the point, but why would they be bitter if they chose not to follow the cookie-cutter garbage?

I mean, if your choice is to remain artistic and independent, then why would you be bitter to those who choose otherwise, for example, go for selling as many records as possible? Everyone decides themselves, right

Danny_C · 09-03-2002, 01:58 PM

Because they're effectively locked out of the system. They're not allowed to participate because they refuse to let a corporate-owned producer tell them how their music is going to sound. Remember, these aren't all necessarily bands that are so abrasive that nobody would want to listen to them (although, that is sometimes the case)... some of these bands could potentially have a huge fanbase if they could only get the kind of promotion that Nsync gets.

And the point is simply what Labret has been saying all along - that corporate major label bands are nothing more than watered down garbage designed for mass consumption, and not worth shit to somebody who actually appreciates good music, rather than just accepting everything MTV shoves down their throats.

People do lose me when they say that anyone who listens to Linkin Park is an idiot... I don't believe that. But I do believe that if Linkin Park fans just expanded their horizons a bit and did some real searching (instead of being spoon fed their music), they'd soon realize, "Hey, I was listening to shit!" and their attitudes toward corporate rock and MTV would change.

Danny_C · 09-03-2002, 02:00 PM

And remember that it costs money to produce and distribute records. If Mozart were alive today, and refused to make a dance beat, he would never get any promotion from a major label, and wouldn't make a reasonable living. The carreers of a lot of musical geniuses have died because they just couldn't afford to continue, yet refused to become corporate puppets.

[Labret] · 09-03-2002, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DrGuile

As Im always willing to learn:

What is vicking metal? Do they pillage and plunder between shows?

also what ska do you listen to?

Viking metal is metal typically from Scandinavian countries and the topics sung about generally revolve around things of a Pagan nature. Rape, plunder, pillage, killing Christians... things Viking love. I am horribly hooked on Amon Amarth. It has more of a melodic death metal feel with black metal style vocals. No keyboards. I hate keyboards in metal. Cept for Cradle of Filth.

As for ska. I really cant think of any off hand that stand out as suck in my mind. I dont like British ska ala Judge Dread or the Specials. Although the Specials have a couple good songs. I like everything from old Marley and Skatalites to Inspected 7 and the Warsaw Brothers. And skapunk like Op Ivy.

mika · 09-03-2002, 05:52 PM

Labret I recall you spent some time in Finland. Did you see any bands you liked here? And I mean in those genres you talk about.

09-03-2002, 12:18 PM	#56
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	I run a label that specializes in hardcore. Its my business to know hardcore. You dont hear me debating you on gloryhole protocol. Dont even debate me on this. You are severely outclassed in this area. All of you. --------------------------- Labret, A 4-track player and 2 garage bands does not constitute a label. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:19 PM	#57
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Danny, Jesus. I haven't seen you in 6 years. What the FUCK are you up to nowadays? __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:20 PM	#58
Libertine sex dwarf Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 17,860	Colin => Your sister is a total and complete moron if she can't name any of the Beatles. Not because they're such a great band (frankly, I think they suck), but because anyone who is not blind and deaf has heard of them, even in the past 15 years. She apparently lacks even the most remote sense of historical/cultural knowledge. And no, being a straight A student does not exclude you from the predicate "idiot" (there are many kinds of idiots, and this is only one of those). Also, if you think Eminem and Linkin Park are good, you yourself are also an idiot. Not because millions of people listen to them, but because they are *fabricated*. There is nothing original about them. Nothing creative. They are like romance novels written for lonely housewives - maybe entertaining, but certainly far from art. You see, clever marketing does not equal art. Art requires originality, thought and profoundness. A Big Mac is not art, however tasty it might be. Besides that, anyone that can relate to Eminem's lyrics or those of Linkin Park is a pathetic loser who has been overtaken by postmodernism without even knowing it. (as a sidenote: Linkin Park's lyrics were written with the specific goal of relating to the average unpopular teenager's feelings. Wonder what that says about you....) Labret => If you really believe that that is a "good" band you most certainly aren't worthy of the respect I had for you. It's as unoriginal as Britney Spears, there are many thousands of other bands around doing exactly the same thing. And you talked about "only shaved heads and tattoos"... If people really are so socially handicapped that they can't feel good about themselves without fitting on a uniform and a lifestyle to go along with it all I can do is feel sorry for them, because they are obviously either too stupid or too shallow to come up with something for themselves. It's funny how you seem to judge music purely by it's number of followers instead of it's artistic merit. Does the quality of music somehow diminish if more people buy the cd? That's too stupid for words... __________________ /(bb\|[^b]{2})/

09-03-2002, 12:20 PM	#59
TarPy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 758	Labret, it's people like you that make me sick. Seriously, it's the same shit different day. Yea, there are sublties (sp?), but I mean if you eat McDonald's at different places around the world, each franchise has a SLIGHTLY different taste, but you seem to think you are special because you noticed. Listen, just because someone sells a couple of million records doesn't mean they suck. If you can't tell the difference from Eminem to Linkin Park, then my friend you are a sad sack of over pompous shit. Some bands are crap, some bands are good and made to be crap. For instance, if you've ever heard Britney Spears or Mariah Carey try to sing some one else's classic vocal masterpieces, they are amazing singers, however, instead they made shitty synthed voice pop shit that makes me want to pop my eardrums with a toothpick. so, yea, Britney Spears' albums and music suck, but her voice is great, not that you ever hear it on her albums, because it's processed to fuck and back. But you are the type of assmunch who could like a band that could make 5 albums that are so identical in style that I could switch all the tracks between them and re-release them and it would sound coherant, but after loving the first 3 and attending their 25 person shows, they get a contract, make a video, and because they throw the same damn show and 75,000 people show up, you say that those newest 2 albums are sold out corperate shit. Yes, I think the mainstream are mostly sheeple, but it's supply and demand and what industry wants to supply is what we are more exposed to, but I still like grunge, but they just don't release it much anymore, but that doesn't mean that when it was popular it sucked. If nirvana released nevermind now, it wouldn't make the charts, and you'd love it, but as it stands now, i'm guessing that you think it was packaged anti-sociatal produced corperate shit... ugh, you hate it because you think it makes you cool. It just makes you a moron who thinks he's cool because he does something that no one else does. But instead you yourself are sheeple, because the minutes MTV made a video for one of your bands, you'd probably go listen to Mariah Carey, and love the movie Glitter, just because no one else does any more. Labret = 1/Sheeple You react the same as they do, just inversely, but you are just as influenced by what corperate america sells, you just avoid it rather than buy it. Buy what you like, not what you aren't supposed to like. TarPy __________________ Not Working

09-03-2002, 12:21 PM	#60
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Labret, I said it doesn't sound MUCH different. I didn't say it sounded the same. Given 15 years, it's pretty similar. Rap has evolved a lot more in that time than hardcore. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:14 PM	#55
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	I think people are missing Labret's point, which I agree with 100%. I've done a bit of studio work, and played in some bands, and I know the process that happens to good bands... and there's a reason that if it's popular, then it's corporate soulless garbage... Say I have a really good, talented band with a sound that is my own, but just happens to be close enough to the music of the day that I manage to catch the attention of some record executives. They come to me, tell me they want to sign me... so I show up to their studio, and they have a producer waiting on me. "Hey, I already have a producer!" Their response: Not anymore. This is your producer. Don't like it? Leave. So in order to keep my record deal, I have to record with their producer. That's fine - it's not like he's writing the music. But then he starts arranging my music, tweaking the nobs and sliders in the exact way he tweaked them for Janet Jackson just the other day - because it's a formula that has been proven to work. He tells me to play things a certain way. Essentially, the producer is the boss... he's the guy who knows how to make an album sell. That's why he's hired by the label - because he knows how to make a hit album. They do market studies just like any other industry, and they water down every piece of art that comes through their studios, turning it into a clone of the last thing that sold millions of copies. Their job is to protect their investments.... NOT to create innovative music. And that's the problem with pop music. Some good bands (an eclectic mix): Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Fantomas, The Melvins, John Zorn, Kid 606, Atomsmasher, Merzbow, Don Caballero, Dillinger Escape Plan, Mr. Bungle, Amon Tobin, Lovage, Medeski Martin & Wood, Hrvatski, Skinny Puppy, Ohgr, Tomahawk, Speedranch, Venetian Snares... just to name a few.

09-03-2002, 12:29 PM	#63
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	if you think Eminem and Linkin Park are good, you yourself are also an idiot. --------- Punkworld, So you claim that idiocy or lack of it can be ascertained by one's taste in music? This is interesting. Tell me more. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:31 PM	#65
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Labret, I was just kidding actually. I honestly wish you all the luck in the world with your label, whatever your goals. I don't believe it makes you an expert on music but i really do hope you get out of it what you want from it. :-) __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink" Last edited by ADL Colin; 09-03-2002 at 12:32 PM..

09-03-2002, 12:43 PM	#75
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	I like Big Macs and I like filet mignons I like Linkin Park and I like Chopin I like Stephen King, Hunter Thompson, Hemingway, and Herman Melville. I like physics, mathematics, philosophy, history, and genetics. I like New York, Miami, Puerto Rico, and Barcelona. I like Dali and Monet. I like programming and porn. I like big butts and I cannot lie Last I checked, none of these make one an idiot. if so, check yoself and yer education fool! __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:44 PM	#77
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	"Well, most interesting. Resorting to name-calling instead of argumentation. " Hey punkworld, you call me an Idiot and now are upset that Labret calls you names? Yer a total hypocrite. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:45 PM	#78
TarPy Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 758	Labret, what about the rest of my post... LOL can't a corperation make something good regardless if it's fake? TarPy __________________ Not Working

09-03-2002, 12:46 PM	#81
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	"Dont discuss hardcore if you dont know hardcore." Labret, ok, you follow that advice too. No more talk of pop or rap for you, ok? __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:52 PM	#87
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	"It's the fact that you like them that makes you an idiot, it's the fact that you apparently can't distinguish the differences (in quality, among other things) between them that makes you an idiot. " punkworld, Since you're such a cocky little bitch ... I know more about anything than you and I'll back it up. I challenge you to a live game (in jeopardy format) on one of the porn radio shows. Do you accept the challenge? I'll arrange everything for a live internet broadcast, get a host, etc. Here's my email address. [email protected] Email me for details, I'll call you on the phone, and we'll make an announcement here on GFY so everyone can come hear. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:56 PM	#89
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Mika, I didn't read Moby Dick. I've read a lot of Melville's short stories though. My favorite is Billy Budd. I also liked "The Lightning Rod Man" __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 12:58 PM	#91
ADL Colin Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Tube Titans, USA Posts: 11,929	Hey everyone, I have to run. My new fiance and I are going to go have some FUN :-) Punkworld, I don't know anyone to it in Dutch. Your English seems fine though. ;-) Punkworld, Labret .. it's been fun arguing. Let's be friends, now. __________________ Adult Date Link - $50 PPS starting NOW! -- good and JUICY! skype = "adultdatelink"

09-03-2002, 01:04 PM	#92
SCOOTER Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,010	Hey Colin ..... I know your song was all about love !! Dont forget i know the real Colin your far from an Idiot!! __________________ Scooter [email protected]

09-03-2002, 01:20 PM	#95
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	I think the point is getting lost here, which really shouldn't be whether a band is popular or not, but whether their music comes from an independent label or a major corporate label (which usually does, incidentally, determine whether or not they become popular). If you only draw that distinction, then I think it's clear that a lot of indie labels are putting out great material by bands that would never be considered by the MTV crowd, and it's unfortunate. Meanwhile, the major labels are making millionaires out of talentless pretty faces like Linkin Park and Brittney Spears. That's why the indie bands (and their fans) who refuse to conform to the cookie cutter formula of pop music become so bitter toward the entire pop scene. The Melvins, for instance, basically invented grunge in the 90's... they were a local band from Seattle, but were way too "wierd" to ever be accepted by a major label (I say they invented grunge, but they never sounded anything like the corporate version you might recognize). Kurt Cobain used to check them out at the clubs, and was inspired by their music... and that's how Nirvana was born. Nirvana lucked out, were picked up by a major label, lost the raw sound they had started with on Bleach, and became a new brand of corporate rock. Millions of clones followed. To pay back their debt to the genius band that inspired them (and I do mean genius), they pulled strings and got The Melvins signed to Atlantic. Unfortunately, The Melvins refused to conform, so Atlantic refused to promote their albums... and after the contract was up, they dropped them. The Melvins held onto their integrity, kept doing what they did best, and moved back to the indie labels. And they're still doing it... they're not huge, but they have one of the most dedicated fan bases in the history of music... because they deserve it, and because they constantly push boundaries. They even piss off their own fans by putting out completely contradictory albums, making it impossible to label or categorize them... and they're completely unapologetic. They're artists. That's why I respect them more than just about any other musicians out there. Now, meanwhile, Nsync is standing on a stage accepting an award for corporate cookie-cutter unoriginal garbage that they do nothing more than dance to. If you were a talented musician who had been neatly pushed under the carpet and ignored, wouldn't YOU be a bit bitter? If you were a fan, wouldn't YOU lash out at the standards of taste in this country? P.S. Hi Colin.

09-03-2002, 01:58 PM	#97
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	Because they're effectively locked out of the system. They're not allowed to participate because they refuse to let a corporate-owned producer tell them how their music is going to sound. Remember, these aren't all necessarily bands that are so abrasive that nobody would want to listen to them (although, that is sometimes the case)... some of these bands could potentially have a huge fanbase if they could only get the kind of promotion that Nsync gets. And the point is simply what Labret has been saying all along - that corporate major label bands are nothing more than watered down garbage designed for mass consumption, and not worth shit to somebody who actually appreciates good music, rather than just accepting everything MTV shoves down their throats. People do lose me when they say that anyone who listens to Linkin Park is an idiot... I don't believe that. But I do believe that if Linkin Park fans just expanded their horizons a bit and did some real searching (instead of being spoon fed their music), they'd soon realize, "Hey, I was listening to shit!" and their attitudes toward corporate rock and MTV would change.

09-03-2002, 02:00 PM	#98
Danny_C Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,160	And remember that it costs money to produce and distribute records. If Mozart were alive today, and refused to make a dance beat, he would never get any promotion from a major label, and wouldn't make a reasonable living. The carreers of a lot of musical geniuses have died because they just couldn't afford to continue, yet refused to become corporate puppets.

09-03-2002, 05:52 PM	#100
mika Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 1,561	Labret I recall you spent some time in Finland. Did you see any bands you liked here? And I mean in those genres you talk about.