Anyone Using CCBill for Bondage?

[BFT3K]

I know CCBill has a lot of restrictions with regards to bondage sites (no blood, no weapons, no rape scenarios, etc.), but do they allow bondage related sites at all? I have lots of very light bondage content that includes softcore solo struggle and no-sex groping for example. I'm toying with the idea of bundling all of my sites together for an eventual CCBill affiliate program, but I also accept Verotel if CCBill is 100% anti-bondage, and they offer an affiliate program as well. Anyone have any info - maybe a CCBill representative on this board?

[mn]

they allow it...

[corvette]

hit, feel free to icq me, i can put you in touch with the people that can answer your questions:

45471840

[BFT3K]

Sorry, I don't have icq.

A clear reply from a CCBill rep would be helpfull however, should any stumble upon this thread.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by corvette

hit, feel free to icq me, i can put you in touch with the people that can answer your questions:

45471840

i am a rep we allow bondage, if you want specifics, feel free to email me and ill get any questions answered you have or call you back or whatever you prefer

[email protected]

[BFT3K]

Great, I will email you in a minute - thanks!

[tranza]

Yep, I've seen quite a few actually...

[SilentKnight]

Bump for Disney-like bondage.

[DBS.US]

Bondage is bad and should be outlawed

[DBS.US]

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

Bump for Disney-like bondage.

[BFT3K]

Based upon the rules that are laid out by CCBill there is almost no bondage site that would ever be approved by them. They would have to be breaking their own rules almost every time they approve a bondage site, unless the models are happily bound by silly string and laughing on camera.

As soon as a model is tied up and appears to be struggling or uncomfortable in any way, then it is considered "non-consensual" bondage.

Once you comply with their regulations it would have to be obvious that the model is happy to be bound up (which is just bizarre), after which point sex while bound is also taboo, so I don't know what the scene would be. Once the model appears to struggle while bound, then it no longer appears "consensual" so there you have it.

For a bondage site to accept CCBill as their biller someone is breaking the rules as far as I can tell. I have now visited a number of bondage sites that use CCBill as a payment option, and none of them would pass based upon their restrictions, so I am now more confused than I was before I looked into this.

Anyone have any further thoughts on this?

[corvette]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Based upon the rules that are laid out by CCBill there is almost no bondage site that would ever be approved by them. They would have to be breaking their own rules almost every time they approve a bondage site, unless the models are happily bound by silly string and laughing on camera.

As soon as a model is tied up and appears to be struggling or uncomfortable in any way, then it is considered "non-consensual" bondage.

Once you comply with their regulations it would have to be obvious that the model is happy to be bound up (which is just bizarre), after which point sex while bound is also taboo, so I don't know what the scene would be. Once the model appears to struggle while bound, then it no longer appears "consensual" so there you have it.

For a bondage site to accept CCBill as their biller someone is breaking the rules as far as I can tell. I have now visited a number of bondage sites that use CCBill as a payment option, and none of them would pass based upon their restrictions, so I am now more confused than I was before I looked into this.

Anyone have any further thoughts on this?

BFT3K, as we spoke about, we cannot process for content of models that are struggling, appear be held against their will, rape or abduction content, that sort of thing

however, this is not necessarily all bondage

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Based upon the rules that are laid out by CCBill there is almost no bondage site that would ever be approved by them. They would have to be breaking their own rules almost every time they approve a bondage site, unless the models are happily bound by silly string and laughing on camera.

As soon as a model is tied up and appears to be struggling or uncomfortable in any way, then it is considered "non-consensual" bondage.

Once you comply with their regulations it would have to be obvious that the model is happy to be bound up (which is just bizarre), after which point sex while bound is also taboo, so I don't know what the scene would be. Once the model appears to struggle while bound, then it no longer appears "consensual" so there you have it.

For a bondage site to accept CCBill as their biller someone is breaking the rules as far as I can tell. I have now visited a number of bondage sites that use CCBill as a payment option, and none of them would pass based upon their restrictions, so I am now more confused than I was before I looked into this.

Anyone have any further thoughts on this?

I'd say you have explained the CCBill stance pretty accurately.

[Katinka]

I run my own personal bondage/fetish site under CCBill Eu with no problems at all, and I have everything from pretty bondagees to hardcore sex and bondage on my site. The only thing they asked me to change when I had the site up for approval was, a line saying "naughty little schoolgirl". I changed it and my site was approved instantly.

Katinka

[FetishTom]

Originally Posted by Katinka

I run my own personal bondage/fetish site under CCBill Eu with no problems at all, and I have everything from pretty bondagees to hardcore sex and bondage on my site

I really would advise people in these instances to talk directly and privately to CCBill (or whoever the Billing Company happens to be) about these issues...or if they are experiencing no problems then not to advertise the fact too much

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by FetishTom

I really would advise people in these instances to talk directly and privately to CCBill (or whoever the Billing Company happens to be) about these issues...or if they are experiencing no problems then not to advertise the fact too much

Yes, I agree. I did not start this thread to flag sites or cause trouble. I just wanted to know whether applying for approval of a potential light bondage site was something worth persuing through CCBill.

If I was looking to cause trouble I would have proposed a challenge instead, asking people to post CCBill approved bondage sites. I decided against this for the very reasons you state. All that challange would have done is cause trouble for those who are already walking on thin ice.

I thank all of you for your feedback, especially the friendly CCBill rep that communicated with me directly off the board. I may have to rethink the idea of this site now, which is fine, as I have not spent too much time developing it yet anyway.

It is always better to get information in advance of starting a site, than afterwards, so I think this has all been helpfull.

Thanks again to all who have offered advice!

[SilentKnight]

Originally Posted by corvette

BFT3K, as we spoke about, we cannot process for content of models that are struggling, appear be held against their will, rape or abduction content, that sort of thing

however, this is not necessarily all bondage

You've just demonstrated CCBill's utter lack of grasp and understanding of what bondage is all about. Ironically, what you just described as current 'don'ts' is what helped make CCBill a ton of money in previous years.

Of course, I understand you have to march to the beat dictatated by Visa International and other CC entities - but lately there has been a vast chasm between those edicts and how CCBill has been interpreting them.

And a LOT of inconsistencies amongst webmasters/websites.

Its the inconsistencies that are pissing most of us off lately. Yet CCBill has failed miserably at acknowledging this.

Reference Lorelei and BedroomBondage.com to get a basic understanding of what I talk of. She has kept many of us up-to-date lately on BondagePhotography Yahoo group about the B.S. she's had to deal with concerning CCBill.

[SilentKnight]

CCbill has become all too similiar to the OFRB (Ontario Film Review Board) here in Ontario, Canada - where a bunch of people unfamiliar with the actual issues are left in charge of deciding what is acceptable and what is not...according to their interpretation of community standards and acceptability.

I know of what I speak - I worked for years as the video editor for the largest distributor of adult videos in Canada...and dealt on a daily basis with the OFRB.

And CCBill strikes me as a duplicate entity these days. A bunch of people in cubicles who have little understanding of the lifestyles of those involved in both production and enjoyment of said entertainment.

[Vasago Reno]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

You've just demonstrated CCBill's utter lack of grasp and understanding of what bondage is all about. Ironically, what you just described as current 'don'ts' is what helped make CCBill a ton of money in previous years.

Of course, I understand you have to march to the beat dictatated by Visa International and other CC entities - but lately there has been a vast chasm between those edicts and how CCBill has been interpreting them.

And a LOT of inconsistencies amongst webmasters/websites.

Its the inconsistencies that are pissing most of us off lately. Yet CCBill has failed miserably at acknowledging this.

Reference Lorelei and BedroomBondage.com to get a basic understanding of what I talk of. She has kept many of us up-to-date lately on BondagePhotography Yahoo group about the B.S. she's had to deal with concerning CCBill.

Corvette's nameplate on the desk is "Damage Control Rep"

Nothing more.

CCBill's position regarding bondage is undefendable.

Its pathetic that a company that has made such profits from the earlier online publication of bondage is now dictating policy on a whim.

[corvette]

Originally Posted by SilentKnight

You've just demonstrated CCBill's utter lack of grasp and understanding of what bondage is all about. Ironically, what you just described as current 'don'ts' is what helped make CCBill a ton of money in previous years.

Of course, I understand you have to march to the beat dictatated by Visa International and other CC entities - but lately there has been a vast chasm between those edicts and how CCBill has been interpreting them.

And a LOT of inconsistencies amongst webmasters/websites.

Its the inconsistencies that are pissing most of us off lately. Yet CCBill has failed miserably at acknowledging this.

Reference Lorelei and BedroomBondage.com to get a basic understanding of what I talk of. She has kept many of us up-to-date lately on BondagePhotography Yahoo group about the B.S. she's had to deal with concerning CCBill.

Silentknight, respectfully, this is a credit card association issue, sites that are declined by us should not be accepted by any other US IPSP. If that is not the case, please let me know and we can look at your issue together.

Just to be sure we are on the same page here, we are talking about sites that depict men finding women, abducting them, tying them up and *fantasy* raping them, or of a similar variation. We are not talking about content like the bondage pics you occasionally post on this board.

If you want me to clarify or elaborate on our policies over the telephone, drop me an email [email protected] and ill call you. You can post whatever you like about our conversation if you still feel the same way


I just joined the group you mentioned to see what you were referring to, lets see if they let me in.

Your membership request has been submitted to the group bondagephotography! You will receive a confirmation email when your membership has been approved. Until then, you can find other groups to join or create your own by visiting the Yahoo! Groups home page.

[phourt]

huh??? ok!

[voice220]

Originally Posted by corvette

Just to be sure we are on the same page here, we are talking about sites that depict men finding women, abducting them, tying them up and *fantasy* raping them, or of a similar variation. We are not talking about content like the bondage pics you occasionally post on this board.

With respect, that is simply not true. I am sure everyone is tired of bringing these issues back to light again, but it's just hard to swallow when you see comments like the above.

Here are some extracts from a conversation I've had with CCBill, after my site's billing was terminated without warning, close of business on a Friday night. Keep in mind that not only had CCBill been processing it happily for years, they had also done a recent content review and asked to change several things, with which I had complied.

I received the standard email we've all seen. I'll skip ahead a little:

Originally Posted by Me

Dear Mr -----,

Thank you for your reply. It seems to me that the issue lies with the set titles more so than with the pictures. Is this correct? If I were to remove all words like captured, abducted, torture, etc. would the content then be admissible? Because I would argue that none of my pictures or videos by themselves actually come across as anything other than tongue-in-cheek or harmless fun.

It would also be really useful to have a full list of words and phrases that aren't allowed, as the description may appear forced is horribly vague, subjective and doesn't take account of context at all. Such a rule is almost impossible to follow as you should well know, considering that your very team went through my site with a comb not very long ago and declared it clean, and that suddenly now you have changed your mind, without me having changed the type of content. It is a very frustrating place to be in as a webmaster if one is afraid of ones billing processor not having a line of consensus on their policy.

With that in mind I urge you to publish such a list of precise banned words and situations, and email it to all your clients on a regular basis, so that they may stay compliant all the time, and not live in fear of being shut down without warning.

I realise that my case is only one of many currently being processed at your end, and I appreciate the time you take to respond to my specific concerns.

Kind regards, etc.

Originally Posted by CCBill

Yes, the wording is the main concern with the site. The idea of publishing a list may be something that can be done and I am working on that. This was actually brought up before but the idea was thrown out for a reason unknown to me. Let me know if this clears things up a little for you. Also, once the site has been altered to fit within the AUP let me know so we can reactivate the account.

For brevity's sake, I've removed any further greetings from the mails.

Originally Posted by Me

Thank you again for your reply. Removing these wordings is a non-trivial task however, especially since many of them are in graphics format. In order to undertake this task I would like to first have a list of concrete words to work from. It has already become clear that my interpretation of something that may appear forced is different than yours. I hope you'll understand that I cannot run a business where I could get cut off at any moment without warning because of this, nor could any other webmaster.

I am thus looking forward to a precise list, and once I have that and can rest assured that my processing will not stop without warning or due reason (especially close of business on a Friday), I will be happy to make all necessary changes.

Originally Posted by CCBill

Here is a partial list of words we consider non-complaint. Please make sure that these words or similar ones are removed from your site. We are not responsible for updating this list. If you have any questions let me know.

Kidnap, Abduct, Capture, Captive, Chloroform, Distress, Peril, Forced, Struggle, Helpless, Demise, Torture, Suffer, Strangle, Suffocate

Originally Posted by Me

You must take responsibility for keeping the list up-to-date by putting it in your AUP and emailing webmasters whenever it changes. Furthermore you should allow webmasters reasonable time to comply should the list change drastically.

Without those assurances my business plan has a weak spot outside of my control at the most important point - the monetization. I am more than happy to comply with your requests as soon as you can give me the above assurances. I hope you understand how important for my business - and any other producers - my point is.

Originally Posted by CCBill

It is not feasible for us to keep an all-inclusive list on hand and updated on a daily basis. It s is your responsibility to make sure that you do not imply any of the actions or circumstances that are related to the list we gave you. As long as you do not try to imply any of those things you have nothing to worry about. We are willing to work with you on this, just as you are.

Wrong - at this point I was utterly unwilling to work with them on this. After all, I had no desire to turn my site from a bondage site into a bird watching site.

The thing that gets me is that a barely legal teen can be happily gangbanged by a dozen burly and sweaty men, but as soon as you tie someone up, it's Satan's work.

[Violetta]

www.unrealbank.com