Damn, someone is trying to pick a fight. ahahaha

The truth hurts however...

Where I come from, we refer to stuff like that as the "clue hammer"... Should be a pretty good sign. If you have to tell them on a public board that you want to move a big account to them, before they will answer, you can't really expect responsiveness down the road, can you? http://www.ccbill.com

i have had webmasters ask me about paycom and epoch before they send signups

they want to make sure that i am not with epoch and epoch has no affiliation with paycom due to the fact they have been fucked by epoch for 5 - 6 digit balances

labret,

the last thing i need to do is start some corporate slander wars, so no i am not looking for a fight, i am just pointing out the fact that epoch has alot of unpaid webmasters, and to say that they have run 6 years strong is pretty much a load of crap :)

porncash can do it, great, you know how many merchants these guys go through? ALOT :)

epoch, how much testing have you done on this billing platform? over $500,000 in billings?

SLAM AWAY BOYS

doesn't bother me.

Funny how EPOCH has the lowest credit and chargeback rates in the industry, running some of the most aggressive billing models, surely we must be doing something right. Don't you think? Why would most all of the large sponsors be using EPOCH?

As far as payments, yes we were late on payments in the past, but if your company got screwed out of 30 MILLION+ dollars in processing revenue don't you think it might have some impact on your ability to pay on time?

At least we sucked it up and lived to tell the story unlike the others such as DMR who went tits up. How many millions of dollars do you think webmasters lost from those companies?

payrollpete - who are all of these unpaid webmasters you are referring to? Do you know of any or did you just hear that we owed a lot of webmasters money. I'd really like to know.

Clay
EPOCH
http://www.epochsystems.com/sales

Hey Tiger,

Rand here. Drop me a line and I'll get back to you with whatever you need. Write to [email protected]. If I can't answer your questions I'll get you to the right person who can. Just let me know if you need to be contacted over the weekend or if Mon or Tues is OK.

Everyone have a great weekend.

--R

clay,

i don't really think you want me to make a few calls and get some guys banging you up worst then you could ever handle on here :)

it is known that epoch has not paid a ton of webmasters, screw paying on time, i am talking about people not getting paid at all.

"but if your company got screwed out of 30 MILLION+ dollars in processing revenue don't you think it might have some impact on your ability to pay on time? "

who's problem is that? yours. so if ibm has a big problem, they should say hold up lets not pay our employees, lets give it some time, i think not

this is what credit lines for big businesses are for, go in debt, then pay it off!

don't get me wrong, i like the idea of your new billing platform, i think its great, but it needs to be more thought through and tested.

sure you can keep your head above water for 6 years, with the money you guys blow on making agreements with banks, merchant accounts, the works, you should be able to keep afloat.

dmr went tits up because frankly they didn't give a crap anymore, and billing wasn't worth their while. you don't think they coulda switch merchant accounts > businesses quick enough? hell yes they could have. they had enough money to do whatever they want.

i use to use epoch, they were great, until they ran into problems, then everybody was jumping ship and going everywhere else. these days thats not new news anyways, until visa / mc / and other credit card companies enforce new laws to protect the businesses there will be insecurities in proccessor companies

Right here my friend, for one.

In my first year of webmastering, I signed up for a sponsor out of Toronto, Canada, called "amateurslutstuff.com", Epoch was the processor.
I had a nasty back injury, and was out of work.
I needed to make some money at this.
I sent traffic and signups to that site, and was elated to see that I had about $100 coming my way.

It never came.

I emailed the sponsor, phoned the sponsor. Finally I went to the Epoch site. There I saw a big to-do about a new comany PR man you had just hired, I forget his name. I emailed him, and tried to phone him too. No reply.


No, it wasn't a lot of money, but at that time, my beginning time, my time of worst need, I got fucked. Then I got ignored by Epoch. Is there 50,000 guys like me out there? I really don't care. All I know is that I got fucked, by my first sponsor, and ignored by the CC processor, which was EPOCH.


So you (Clay) may want to quit squawking about how Epoch knows what they're doing, because if you can't look after the little guy, you don't. During all the time Kimmykim was with CCbill she answered every single one of my emails.

Cheers.

Payroll..

Epoch has owed us about $30,000 at one time..

We went on like usual.. and we have been paid up to date.. and check come like clockwork now..

:thumbsup

Amen.

I have to agree totally with Labret

I would NOT add this feature to my sites, as I too see a probable chargeback nightmare.

The surfer could all so easily say he cancelled within 29 minutes, and there you are - your f#$ked.

I own and run 230 paysites, and I wouldnt even consider adding a 30 minute trial, unless I was running and controlling the merchant account myself.

With my own merchant account, I think I would get surfers to go to full monthly after 30 minutes using a countdown timer on the top of my members area. This would make extra $$$ for sure, but I have 24/7 customer support, so I could handle it (maybe).

I would then also detect the amount of usage to keep things factual.

But to run through a processor, with all the control on there end, all I can say is - nahhhhhhhhhhh, not for me

I think I know a little teenie bit about billing systems too, as I own http://www.multibill.com/, which isnt a processor but a checking system of processors (and a whole lot of other nasty stuff) . It isnt ready as a commercial product yet, a I am awaiting the trials of Visa Verfied before I launch.

Good luck Clay - a bold move for sure, and maybe one worth huge $$$.

Not bad... I own 564 myself :winkwink:

So wait a minute, wait a minute. I can join a porn site whenever I want, spank it for 30 minutes and then cancel?

Fuckin' A that's a good idea!!! Now I'll never have to pay for a monthly embership agian!

Whassup evil ;)

30 minute trials? Oh my god...Nothing personal, but this whole idea is stupid.

30 minutes is too short.. some people have to wait for the viagra to kick in..

i wouldnt go less than 6 hours.. then just hit them with a monthly

it gives the surfer enough time to check out your site..
wank off a bit..
go to sleep ..
and then wake up to a monthly charge

Epoch owed me in the high five figures, but they made good on it. I had to jump thru some hoops, but I DID get paid.

what's more, I went back to using them after they paid me off. Why? Because using other processors cut my income damn near in half, NOBODY treats your traffic better than Epoch. Can't say who the other processor was since I still get fat recurring checks every week from them until the members are all gone, but you can pretty much insert any other CCompany name you want in that slot.

If Epoch can take a 30m hit and still be here to talk about it, I think they'll stick around for the long haul. One other thing that should be mentioned: I'm CLEANING UP with EZclick. It's an extra 15 or 20 bucks per member for the webmasters who use Fetishbucks as an ezclick partner, and we convert from trial well enough that we're getting fat on the deal too. Epoch has provided it's customers with plenty of methods by which they can work with other Epoch webmasters to increase their bottom line, if you have the initiative to take advantage of what they're handing you.

Just my .02, I'm not getting paid extra for saying this. Although I should be :Graucho

wouldnt it make a helluva lot more sense to have free 30 minute trials that convert to MONTHLY memberships?? Nobody in the right state of mind will give a free trial for people to check out a paid trial ... This idea had me hard when I first heard about it but now...well yeah I hate it lol

Wow dig, I didn't realize you were paying your resellers 15-20 bucks on cross sales. I thought we were the highest at ten bucks per to them.

How is the pay structure on yours set up? I've noticed about a 30% increase in our webmasters take per join with it.

KK we give 15 per to webmasters who are using free trials and 20 per to webmasters using us in conjunction with their paid trials. The conditions for using the free trial setup are more stringent than the paid trials but if you have enough traffic you can make it happen. If you have enough traffic, you can make *anything* happen, as you well know :thumbsup

the conversion ratio on ezclick sales is as good or better than on normal trials, so everybody wins

I have a guy who sent me 90 trials this week so far, so that's an extra 1350.00 bucks in his pocket this week alone. It amazes me that so many webmasters who are completely qualified to do this themselves are just ignoring it.

i agree. fuck free trials - infact, fuck all trials - we don't use them. to each his/her own.

still an interesting idea to use a free trial shorter than a day though. using it to increase your bottom line is another question...

MultiBill,

Let me know when you're up and running.

As far as the free trial through Epoch, seems like after the 30 minutes the member should be converted into the full monthly payment. Is that an option?

Kisses,

Jade

If there was a gif that lowered its head and sighed, I would insert it here.

exaaactly,now that would be something...but a double trial is foolish
to me,trials are foolish in the first place so why give free access to browse your members area just for it to convert $3(maybe)? I'd rather try to get the $3 trial and convert that into a monthly...baaaah I'm done with this

/me agrees

yes, now THAT would be something....

something like an 85% chargeback!

kman

i'm thinking 90% :) maybe 95% hehe

o well, let them go through the head ache,

Trials in general suck. The goal should be as few steps as possible to getting someone to buy a full membership, not as many steps as you can make them take.

Exactly. Thirty minutes pass quickly while jerking. And to
find out your card is charged for 3 days while cumming after
31 minutes... nah..

Well.. If you think about it, webmasters can promote the new program has a 1 day trial.. and not tell them about the 30 Minute Free...

My :2 cents:

the other thing is,

imagine all the charges on the guys card. 3 different charges showing, he'll get suspicious and chargeback it :)

Nah..

kman, I don't know about that. If you had full explicit disclosure I don't think it's at all guaranteed that your chargeback ratio is going to increase.

I could be wrong, but we'll never know without testing.

A full explicit disclosure means shit, There will still be rampant billing nightmares, fraud etc

why?

are you trying to be funny?

For the same reason dialer disclosures were a fucking joke.

Because the surfer is an idiot.

nope. why are chargebacks going to be any more rampant than with 3 day trials?

imho if you put a full disclosure along with maybe some warning text that frequent chargebacks will result in your card going into a scrub list, you'll be fine.

surfers intending to join and cancel will go elsewhere.

dialers are much worse... they're like phone sex, the charges seem to come out of nowhere

not that I would know about phone sex :Graucho

lol

Dig your a paysite owner you should know about TODAY'S porn surfer.. There cheap and there SMART.. They want a wank for nothing.

Todays porn surfer/ buyer is not like the one from 97, they are a more advanced breed!

They will still disupute everything and anything, in the end its the webmasters getting fucked from chargebacks galore.

I like this idea a lot for other uses, just not with subscription based porn sites.

i'm not saying you're right and I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying that I'm not going to accept it as gospel without testing. I think I could make it work.

Are you kidding?

This might of worked a few years back, today i dont think it would do much.

Its worth a test, you should let us know your LONGTERM results from this after you test it.

I think I've already made it clear to most English speaking people that I'm NOT kidding Fatpad

this thread has turned into one of those that make me smile :)

all the power to you on the free 30 minute trials, if you can use it to actually increase your overall, longterm bottom line...

We're also amongst those going with no trial...I'm not a fan of free or even cheap trials either....I just feel if a surfer likes the tour and wants to see what's inside, why not get the most out of them you can? they sure as hell will try to see it for as cheap as they can (as mentioned by [Labret]). Most affiliates have gotten lazy in marketing, so instead of selling the site, they rely (sometimes too much, IMHO) on just selling how cheap the guy can yank his crank....it's almost resulted in porn surfers comparative shopping...what a travesty....porn is and should remain an impulse buy.



What are the chargeback numbers on the EZclick program? We're toying with cross sales, but I wouldn't want to end up with considerably more chargebacks just because of it....

VERY VERY GOOD POINT !!! :thumbsup