For the record...i'll never pay a designer up front no matter what they say - GoFuckYourself.com

Phoenix · 05-14-2007, 01:00 PM

WTF man

they sure do like to disappear off the face of the earth

kristin · 05-14-2007, 01:00 PM

Along with writers ...

Sly · 05-14-2007, 01:01 PM

For the record... I like pizza.

candyflip · 05-14-2007, 01:04 PM

Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front.

People who owe money are flakier than designers.

kristin · 05-14-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front.

People who owe money are flakier than designers.

I have a guy that I pay after the work is done.

I've done upfront, 50/50 before ... and been screwed everytime.

I think I found a winner this time. : )

Sly · 05-14-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front.

People who owe money are flakier than designers.

Not if you have a relationship or both of you have something to lose. I've never paid upfront. Course I never dick people around when paying either.

Wait, I take that back. I paid someone upfront last week. Already had a relationship and he had too much to lose by screwing me.

Peaches · 05-14-2007, 01:11 PM

For the record, I will

All the designers I use I've known forever. The only time I almost got screwed over was many years ago, a friend who introduced me to the designer offered to pay me the $$$ I was out back (I didn't let him) and about 3 years later the designer walked up to me at a show and handed me the cash

Oracle Porn · 05-14-2007, 01:13 PM

Ya always after the work is done.

fris · 05-14-2007, 01:15 PM

i never pay when the work is done

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 05-14-2007, 01:16 PM

Another reason why people choose us no matter how much I act like a idiot or ass on the board... We screw over no one ever!

jimmy-3-way · 05-14-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front.

People who owe money are flakier than designers.

There's an opening here for a trusted source to open an adult escrow service here.

Phoenix · 05-14-2007, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front.

People who owe money are flakier than designers.

50/50 is fine with me

TheLegacy · 05-14-2007, 01:19 PM

not even a deposit? a good designer should at least get partial payment to start, and the remainder when completed. remember to designers, there are alot of companies who demand everything then don't pay at the end of the project. party goes both ways

tenderobject · 05-14-2007, 01:19 PM

i can do that for you although you need to order in bulk/ i mean tons

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 05-14-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

get lost creepflip

Can I have your permission to use that line some time?

candyflip · 05-14-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

Not if you have a relationship or both of you have something to lose. I've never paid upfront. Course I never dick people around when paying either.

Wait, I take that back. I paid someone upfront last week. Already had a relationship and he had too much to lose by screwing me.

Key word here is relationship. It's got to go both ways.

Same with the one kristin mentioned above. She's now got a working relationship with them. As a provider and as a buyer that works out.

You're not going to get the best product out there without putting something down to get the ball rolling. While I'm sure places like Webinc have companies they work for with credit, the little programs and single webmasters probably don't get that special treatment.

Phoenix · 05-14-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Clark

Can I have your permission to use that line some time?

man you are fast...lol

candyflip · 05-14-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

50/50 is fine with me

Sometimes it doesn't even need to be that much. But it works out. A fair split ensures that you will be damn sure to collect your work and pay just so you don't lose and the designer (should you at the very least pick someone relatively known) will definitely deliver and collect on the remaining sum.

I wouldn't do anything without at least some form of payment to start, and I would never expect to pay for something without at least a deposit of some sort up front.

There's really no need for an adult escrow service. Escrow.com has no problem with adult so far as I know. At least I've never had issue. It is the best way to make sure both ends are protected.

Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE · 05-14-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

man you are fast...lol

Goodings Media · 05-14-2007, 02:15 PM

Well at Student Designs Ltd. every client is protected by a legal contract.

We wont start any work until the contract is signed and 50% or 30% payment has been taken. This protects both the designer and the client

Its impossible in our projects for the designer or the client to finish up empty handed.

Phoenix · 05-14-2007, 02:17 PM

wishing the person i paid in full would come online and let me know how the work is going

sextoyking · 05-14-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Key word here is relationship. It's got to go both ways.

Same with the one kristin mentioned above. She's now got a working relationship with them. As a provider and as a buyer that works out.

You're not going to get the best product out there without putting something down to get the ball rolling. While I'm sure places like Webinc have companies they work for with credit, the little programs and single webmasters probably don't get that special treatment.

Hi Candyflip,

Well at webinc.com we almost never ask for a deposit upfront - seems to work well for us.. Our policy is the same for small webmasters / companies and the large ones...

borked · 05-14-2007, 02:29 PM

Designers are tricky, because viewing the goods means they can be ripped if the employer has little intention of paying. Programming is easy - keep the code on your dev box and only release when payment is made. On big projects break the project down to milestones, with payments due upon reaching a milestone.

Violetta · 05-14-2007, 02:38 PM

I can do if it is an small order, and I know/trust the designer. But for folks I have never used before: forget it.

hezochiah · 05-14-2007, 02:56 PM

Unfortunately it can go both ways. I did some editing for someone and originally cut some samples just to show them what I could do and to see if they would want me to edit some more stuff for them. I was given a drive with some more stuff to edit and a couple weeks later was asked if I was done with those and ready for some more. I left a message for them and said I was ready to do some more but would need to start seeing some payment and never heard back. I left a couple more messages and still nothing so it's definitely not just the people being hired who can be flaky...

Sosa · 05-14-2007, 03:02 PM

There are only a few designers that I trust with paying upfront, but usually I will only do 50/50 with them. They trust me and I trust them so it's all good. Got a project going on now with a designer I have used in the past, they trust me 100% so no need for 50% upfront. I like that.

VIPimp · 05-14-2007, 03:03 PM

I dont pay for anything upfront anymore... if a designer or whoever doesnt like it, I move on to another one that does, and the ones that do end up receiving ALOT of longterm biz from me.

candyflip · 05-14-2007, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sextoyking

Hi Candyflip,

Well at webinc.com we almost never ask for a deposit upfront - seems to work well for us.. Our policy is the same for small webmasters / companies and the large ones...

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Here's a question, what happens when you spend a day/week/month working on something and then the client fails to deliver on his end of the bargain. Surely you've had this happen once or twice

CyberHustler · 05-14-2007, 03:17 PM

Kat does a great job and doesn't make me pay up front.

tenderobject · 05-14-2007, 03:18 PM

actually i can work without 50upfront if i know the client have an established biz in adult. then afterthe we can create relationship. although they're some people after you made some design even though you've done some designs for them after that they just gone with a few things needed to get paid.. oh well... thats adult industry

sextoyking · 05-14-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Here's a question, what happens when you spend a day/week/month working on something and then the client fails to deliver on his end of the bargain. Surely you've had this happen once or twice

Hi,

I thought someone might ask that question

In over 7 years webinc has had 3 clients not pay. 1 Paysite design about 6 yrs ago or so and 2 small jobs I think 2-3 yrs ago.

Pretty good I would say out of the thousands of different projects we have done over the yrs.

We don't ask for payment upfront but we expect payment ASAP when a project is done or almost completed.

Never really an issue I guess.

Btw, we have had a few clients late in paying and when that happens I can be very agressive in my collection of funds

Thanks

Todd

CyberHustler · 05-14-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenderobject

actually i can work without 50upfront if i know the client have an established biz in adult. then afterthe we can create relationship. although they're some people after you made some design even though you've done some designs for them after that they just gone with a few things needed to get paid.. oh well... thats adult industry

huh?

Jace · 05-14-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Here's a question, what happens when you spend a day/week/month working on something and then the client fails to deliver on his end of the bargain. Surely you've had this happen once or twice

I talked with my guy about this once

he usually just stores the psd in his "digital filing cabinet" and eventually someone else will come along that needs something similar...he just changes the logo and some graphics and is done

tranza · 05-14-2007, 03:25 PM

It's pretty hard to get a good designer with $0 upfront...

OTerror · 05-14-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kristin

Along with writers ...

If you need reliable writer, hit me up

cj_purve · 05-14-2007, 03:33 PM

I have compulsory 25% deposit with any job over a few hundred dollars, because I find until the client has actually paid something they don't take their order seriously.

I've been stung once on a smaller job & once on a mid sized job but gfy is a very handy tool for finding people who go missing when payment is due so thankfully its only happened twice.

Brad, you could always use a designer you know .... *wink* ;-)

jayeff · 05-14-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

Wow. I'm surprised by that. Here's a question, what happens when you spend a day/week/month working on something and then the client fails to deliver on his end of the bargain. Surely you've had this happen once or twice

Anyone using multiple designers, whether in-house or out, can take the occasional hit. I used to extend 30-90 days credit in previous businesses with no checks whatever, on the same principle. But the economics are entirely different for solo designers, writers, coders, etc, because every job is a bigger part of their total income.

I charge up front as much to shut out timewasters as out-and-out flakes. To avoid the common complaint of late delivery, I pencil in blocks of my days each time an assignment is confirmed (by payment). I couldn't think about doing that if I took note of everyone who seems set to go and then simply vanishes. But anyway, why take the chance when I have enough clients to keep me busy?

Meloman · 05-14-2007, 03:40 PM

I have a few designers I always use. I used to do the 50% upfront deal in the beginning. Now i've found that once a designer trusts you they will take your job and million others at once and stick you waiting in line for your turn. I don't like being stuck in line and waiting for weeks to have the job finsihed

So now I refuse to pay till the job is done...this way if he feels like taking his time getting to my project I can just cancel on him (with proper notice) and use my next designer.

I have found that all single personal web designers are complete utter flakes regardless of how good there work is.

I need to look into the various design companies out there and see if they offer a better solution.

Do any of you design companies have enough people on staff where I can hit u up for a few quick banners anytime and have them done in 24 hours or less? More offten than not I'm in need for small quicky projects that the lone designers take care of super fast WHEN they don't have other jobs in line.... Would be nice to be able to use a design company that always has someone available to do a job, even quicky small ones.

TonyL · 05-14-2007, 03:56 PM

50/50 is fair unless it's the first time working with someone. We use the same people for everything so it's about relationships. Good reliable designers are hard to find just like copywriters. Easy way to get raked over the coals is to pay 100% upfront.

cj_purve · 05-14-2007, 03:59 PM

Meloman, you haven't tried *all* single personal web designers ...

I can usually fit in small graphic jobs within 48 hours because I use those jobs to take a break from other tedious or big jobs. I work similar to jayeff above where I grey out blocks of time, so I can tell you exactly when your job will be done & if I can't do it in time I'll tell you upfront.

The biggest part to being a designer is time management. Its easy for inexperienced designers to spend far too long on unimportant details & the cascading effect starts and your job gets delayed.

Kevin Marx · 05-14-2007, 04:18 PM

I have had both experiences and it depends on who you are working with.

Independents have fucked me over.... Tripped across Blue Design Studios and was completely happy. So it can go either way.

tenderobject · 05-14-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyber-Hu$tler

huh?

another lover?

born4porn · 05-14-2007, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix

WTF man

they sure do like to disappear off the face of the earth

I hear you man ... we got scammed by a programmer and a designer!

and now they are like the Phantom!

xxxdesign-net · 05-14-2007, 05:03 PM

When I did design.. i think i was asking 33% upfront.. 33% midway.. and 33% when the job is done.. Always worked well..

05-14-2007, 01:00 PM	#1
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,465	For the record...i'll never pay a designer up front no matter what they say WTF man they sure do like to disappear off the face of the earth __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

05-14-2007, 01:00 PM	#2
kristin GOO! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Back Home : ) Posts: 9,768	Along with writers ... __________________ Vacares rules. "Usually only fat guys have the kind of knowledge and ability that Kristin has."

05-14-2007, 01:01 PM	#3
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,340	For the record... I like pizza. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available Great for TSS, Nifty Stats, remote work, virtual assistants, etc. Click here for more details.

05-14-2007, 01:04 PM	#4
candyflip Carpe Visio Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: New York Posts: 43,064	Then you're limiting yourself to who you can work with. No designer with any sense should take a job without getting something up front. People who owe money are flakier than designers. __________________ Spend you some brain. Email Me

05-14-2007, 01:13 PM	#8
Oracle Porn Affiliate Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Icq: 94-399-723 Posts: 24,433	Ya always after the work is done. __________________

05-14-2007, 01:11 PM	#7
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	For the record, I will All the designers I use I've known forever. The only time I almost got screwed over was many years ago, a friend who introduced me to the designer offered to pay me the $$$ I was out back (I didn't let him) and about 3 years later the designer walked up to me at a show and handed me the cash

05-14-2007, 01:15 PM	#9
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	i never pay when the work is done

05-14-2007, 01:16 PM	#10
Jon Clark - BANNED FOR LIFE North Coast Pimp Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: 304-534-757 Posts: 9,395	Another reason why people choose us no matter how much I act like a idiot or ass on the board... We screw over no one ever!

05-14-2007, 01:19 PM	#13
TheLegacy SEO Connoisseur Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brantford, Ontario Posts: 17,211	not even a deposit? a good designer should at least get partial payment to start, and the remainder when completed. remember to designers, there are alot of companies who demand everything then don't pay at the end of the project. party goes both ways __________________ SEO Connoisseur Microsoft Teams: Robert Warren SEO Telegram: @TheLegacy54 RobertWarrenSEO.com

05-14-2007, 01:19 PM	#14
tenderobject Need Designs? 312352846 Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere Posts: 11,688	i can do that for you although you need to order in bulk/ i mean tons __________________ NEED DESIGNS?!?

05-14-2007, 02:15 PM	#20
Goodings Media Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,987	Well at Student Designs Ltd. every client is protected by a legal contract. We wont start any work until the contract is signed and 50% or 30% payment has been taken. This protects both the designer and the client Its impossible in our projects for the designer or the client to finish up empty handed. __________________ ICQ: 446-568-913 Email: liam\|\|goodingsmedia.com msn: [email protected]

05-14-2007, 02:17 PM	#21
Phoenix BACON BACON BACON Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Poems everybody, the laddie fancies himself a poet Posts: 35,465	wishing the person i paid in full would come online and let me know how the work is going __________________ Skype Phoenixskype1 Telegram PhoenixBrad https://quantads.io

05-14-2007, 02:29 PM	#23
borked Totally Borked Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,284	Designers are tricky, because viewing the goods means they can be ripped if the employer has little intention of paying. Programming is easy - keep the code on your dev box and only release when payment is made. On big projects break the project down to milestones, with payments due upon reaching a milestone. __________________ For coding work - hit me up on andy // borkedcoder // com (consider figuring out the email as test #1) All models are wrong, but some are useful. George E.P. Box. p202

05-14-2007, 02:38 PM	#24
Violetta Affiliate Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 28,735	I can do if it is an small order, and I know/trust the designer. But for folks I have never used before: forget it. __________________ M&A Queen

05-14-2007, 02:56 PM	#25
hezochiah Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 807	Unfortunately it can go both ways. I did some editing for someone and originally cut some samples just to show them what I could do and to see if they would want me to edit some more stuff for them. I was given a drive with some more stuff to edit and a couple weeks later was asked if I was done with those and ready for some more. I left a message for them and said I was ready to do some more but would need to start seeing some payment and never heard back. I left a couple more messages and still nothing so it's definitely not just the people being hired who can be flaky...

05-14-2007, 03:02 PM	#26
Sosa In Tushy Land Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 40,149	There are only a few designers that I trust with paying upfront, but usually I will only do 50/50 with them. They trust me and I trust them so it's all good. Got a project going on now with a designer I have used in the past, they trust me 100% so no need for 50% upfront. I like that.

05-14-2007, 03:03 PM	#27
VIPimp Marina WILL have my babies! Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 9,234	I dont pay for anything upfront anymore... if a designer or whoever doesnt like it, I move on to another one that does, and the ones that do end up receiving ALOT of longterm biz from me.

05-14-2007, 03:17 PM	#29
CyberHustler Masterbaiter Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 26,557	Kat does a great job and doesn't make me pay up front.

05-14-2007, 03:18 PM	#30
tenderobject Need Designs? 312352846 Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere Posts: 11,688	actually i can work without 50upfront if i know the client have an established biz in adult. then afterthe we can create relationship. although they're some people after you made some design even though you've done some designs for them after that they just gone with a few things needed to get paid.. oh well... thats adult industry __________________ NEED DESIGNS?!?

05-14-2007, 03:25 PM	#34
tranza ICQ: 197-556-237 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: BRASIL !!! Posts: 57,559	It's pretty hard to get a good designer with $0 upfront... __________________ I'm just a newbie.

05-14-2007, 03:33 PM	#36
cj_purve Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,065	I have compulsory 25% deposit with any job over a few hundred dollars, because I find until the client has actually paid something they don't take their order seriously. I've been stung once on a smaller job & once on a mid sized job but gfy is a very handy tool for finding people who go missing when payment is due so thankfully its only happened twice. Brad, you could always use a designer you know .... wink ;-)

05-14-2007, 03:40 PM	#38
Meloman Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sacramento,CA Posts: 1,540	I have a few designers I always use. I used to do the 50% upfront deal in the beginning. Now i've found that once a designer trusts you they will take your job and million others at once and stick you waiting in line for your turn. I don't like being stuck in line and waiting for weeks to have the job finsihed So now I refuse to pay till the job is done...this way if he feels like taking his time getting to my project I can just cancel on him (with proper notice) and use my next designer. I have found that all single personal web designers are complete utter flakes regardless of how good there work is. I need to look into the various design companies out there and see if they offer a better solution. Do any of you design companies have enough people on staff where I can hit u up for a few quick banners anytime and have them done in 24 hours or less? More offten than not I'm in need for small quicky projects that the lone designers take care of super fast WHEN they don't have other jobs in line.... Would be nice to be able to use a design company that always has someone available to do a job, even quicky small ones.

05-14-2007, 03:56 PM	#39
TonyL Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: "A measure of a man is his post count". Write that down. Posts: 900	50/50 is fair unless it's the first time working with someone. We use the same people for everything so it's about relationships. Good reliable designers are hard to find just like copywriters. Easy way to get raked over the coals is to pay 100% upfront.

05-14-2007, 03:59 PM	#40
cj_purve Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,065	Meloman, you haven't tried all single personal web designers ... I can usually fit in small graphic jobs within 48 hours because I use those jobs to take a break from other tedious or big jobs. I work similar to jayeff above where I grey out blocks of time, so I can tell you exactly when your job will be done & if I can't do it in time I'll tell you upfront. The biggest part to being a designer is time management. Its easy for inexperienced designers to spend far too long on unimportant details & the cascading effect starts and your job gets delayed.

05-14-2007, 04:18 PM	#41
Kevin Marx Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,888	I have had both experiences and it depends on who you are working with. Independents have fucked me over.... Tripped across Blue Design Studios and was completely happy. So it can go either way. __________________ ICQ: 370 037 008

05-14-2007, 05:03 PM	#44
xxxdesign-net My hips don't lie Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 10,129	When I did design.. i think i was asking 33% upfront.. 33% midway.. and 33% when the job is done.. Always worked well..