Voodoo

Does Google have to provide 2257 for Google Images as a secondary producer? If not, what is the clause/loophole that allows them to get out of it? From what I understood, if the site has unmanaged content and is a form of communication, it is considered exempt, however, Google isn't really a form of communication, GTalk is, Google is not.

Thoughts?

Oh, and why are there 2 lightbulbs on the Post Icons @ GFY? ()

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Randyyy

interesting

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jact

They fall under the service provider category and are therefore exempt.

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Voodoo

Wouldn't a TGP be considered a "service provider" also? Providing a service of delivering porn in an organized listing for easy navigation?

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After Shock Media

Are they not a remote computing service?

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Domains_Broker

I've been wondering this myself... how does one get this "exempt" status? Do I need a certain technology to qualify?

Or just notoriety and enough money to debate how information is indexed and classified in court...

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The Sultan Of Smut

No Google is not a secondary producer and not required to have 2257 documents because they have too much money to tie up this new law in court.

Domains_Broker

exactly... and good lobbyists to suck-off all those religious zealots in DC

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jact

That's a good question to pose to a lawyer, however I would suspect only if it was 100% pure automated submissions with no approval process. Part of Google's catch is, it's purely automated and there's nobody at Google going out and actively seeking, or adding content.

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Jakke PNG

Now, that there is one intresting question.

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Jakke PNG

So the TGP's that use spiders to list grab galleries automatically from other TGPs are safe? How do the feds know which sites use spiders and which don't? Just put text at your tgp's disclaimer saying "This site is 100% automated, please contact us if you wish to stop us from indexing your website, or if you find content you wish to have removed"

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jact

Honestly, I'm not sure how it all works. I'll be having this discussion with our lawyer in a couple of weeks, I'm really very curious what sets a service provider apart.

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pocketkangaroo

Seriously guys, it has nothing to do with the law here. Google has money, and the government doesn't want to play with them. No matter how you shape the argument, the feds will go after those who can't defend themselves and turn a blind eye to the billionaires.

Empress_JoinRightNow

I guess not...Google as a whole is a search engine...each images has it's own sites...Google's main service is just to search for images...and it doesn't mean that they have responsibility over those stuff being searched by the surfers...

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IllTestYourGirls

I search for images too through my sponsors, so its ok for a computer to search but not a human? that doesnt make sense.

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Bloomer

I asked people the very same question a couple weeks ago in one of my ranting 2257 threads and very strangley i got alot of the same answers.You would think google would have to actually be held responsable as well as all the hosting companies after all it only seems fair if it is a team effort to produce this type of content then wtf?

OldJeff

2257 applies to those that the DOJ decides it applys to.

Because it has nothing to do with verifying age of models, or preventing CP.

It exists to fuck with the Adult Industry whenever they feel like it.

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Bloomer

Its almost like saying its ok for the goverment to send people off to war and get shot in the head but if you attempt this at home its illegal because its suicide.
im so sick of this political bullshit in this moronic united states i only wish the entire internet would be shutdown rebooted and put back up with as one organized unit!
I dont go along with all this jurisdiction shit at all.
they say things like check your local laws and things like that.
why the fuck dont all our service providers check the laws and restrict internet flow to these such areas then/plain and simple.
After all you can put a parental on any computer why cant they just put a parental on and entire section of any part of the country they want?

TheDoc

Simply put.. Google downloads a photo from my server and hosts it on its own services, content which can contain nudity. They must have the 2257 records. No ISP or host clause will get them around this. Just another example of how 2257 'could' really crush us if it continues to go through.

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Bloomer

i agree and id like to also know how any host is getting away with a 9im not responsible clause here).
Thats like saying hey my son bought a gun from Walmart went out and shot the neighbors but Lets blame the gun manufacturers!
If its a team effort it then the whole team should be to blame.

jcj

Yeah! I agree

StarkReality

Why not ? Get a team of 100 lawyers like google and fight for it in court...sad but true, it's like always: If you got enough money, you are exempt...if not, you are fucked.

Reminds me on Youtube, I'm sure the movie and record industry would have stomped down this site long ago if there wouldn't be much money involved.

TheDoc

Hosts don't get around the law... The simply aren't responsible for what 'you' upload, unless someone tells them about it and they do nothing. Google isn't a host or an isp, no part of google/google images could ever be considered that.

And I think the Gov has been waiting for Google to slip up, this is a perfect slip up.

The only way around 2257 is to not post nudity online on any website you own or get a person from another country to own your domains.

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markz08

maybe....

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sarettah

Exemptions from 2257 requirements: (from http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h109-4472)

`(iv) the provision of a telecommunications service, or of an Internet access service or Internet information location tool (as those terms are defined in section 231 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 231)); or

from 47 U.S.C. 231: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...1----000-.html

b) Inapplicability of carriers and other service providers
For purposes of subsection (a) of this section, a person shall not be considered to make any communication for commercial purposes to the extent that such person is?
(1) a telecommunications carrier engaged in the provision of a telecommunications service;
(2) a person engaged in the business of providing an Internet access service;
(3) a person engaged in the business of providing an Internet information location tool; or
(4) similarly engaged in the transmission, storage, retrieval, hosting, formatting, or translation (or any combination thereof) of a communication made by another person, without selection or alteration of the content of the communication, except that such person?s deletion of a particular communication or material made by another person in a manner consistent with subsection (c) of this section or section 230 of this title shall not constitute such selection or alteration of the content of the communication.

From definitions in 47 231:

4) Internet access service
The term ?Internet access service? means a service that enables users to access content, information, electronic mail, or other services offered over the Internet, and may also include access to proprietary content, information, and other services as part of a package of services offered to consumers. Such term does not include telecommunications services.
(5) Internet information location tool
The term ?Internet information location tool? means a service that refers or links users to an online location on the World Wide Web. Such term includes directories, indices, references, pointers, and hypertext links.


Kind of makes my eyes just roll back in my head

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HeadPimp

The Billion dollar lawsuit isn't doing them any favors at the moment!

Seriously though, it would make for a good argument for unequal enforcement, and excessive record keeping. Can you imagine trying to sift all the porn out of Google?

webgeek

No.
because google does not pre-produce the pics/videos.

ref: https://gfy.com/12226742-post6.html

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TheDoc

They reproduce/crop & modify the original photo as much as a TGP script/webmaster does. So to me if googles auto scripts took a photo which is hardcore/nude, crop it, host it and link off to the original source - that is no different than a TGP.

The difference between a TGP and Google Images is a framed page.

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BoyAlley

Bloomer

So this goes back to what I said about Firearms purchased at Walmart!
Round and round!
this whole (WE ARE GOOGLE LOOK AT US WE CAN PUT UP AS MANY PICTURES AS WE WANT OF TITIES AND ASS AND SEXUALY EXPLICIT NUDITY BUT WE ARE UNTOUCHABLE) is complete bullshit!
They host they might not pre produce like you said but they distribute content via open access to the content from the internet!
If they are based within the united states then they should have to pay the piper like everyone else!
And so should hosts!
Even though they do not visually depict images they host several millions of sexual explicit images dont they?

dready

The term 'secondary producer' is no longer relevant. There are only 'producers' now.

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Voodoo

Yep, some illegal content even. ie, animals etc...

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Voodoo

So what is a TGP considered? A "Producer"?

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Bloomer

I only wish that there was some sort of (Front door to the internet) that before you could post any kind of picture onto the net it would have to be govermently approved first...
If this was done then none of us would have to worry about any kind of legal bullshit involved in this industry.
Real producers would simply have to have there content approved for sale to the public for anyone wanting to distribute it in any way!
The models wouldnt be frieked out by thinking that everyone in gods creation knows who and where they live ect,ect,ect.

If someone out there could come up with that kind of software program and market it to (all) governments (all) search engines not only would they become rich beyond belief but this industry would flourish like a motherfucker!

Bloomer

Aphotographer is the first step,a paysite the second,if you are a mere webmaster with a domain you are the third.
However we have always all been producers and actually this whole 2257 thing was on the bill 2 years ago but it was stricken out of the equation.
Someone should just come up with that pre approved software and walk into the court and slap it down for all those little bitches and tell them to eat shit!
Also they should bring a list of all actual first party producers and paysites with all docs to cram down their fucking governmental throats!
There should be a duration of say like every six months or so that any first party producer can submit content and once approved by the govenment thats the end of story!
No surprize inspections no bullshit!
Wake up were are all the people in this industry that should grow balls and tell these mutherfuckers in congress where they can shove it?
Its like everyone is hiding or avoiding the law!
If you dont have anything to hide then you should all get organized and march down to washington with your documents and tell them to eat shit!
Remember this one?
"TOGETHER WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL"

Domains_Broker

I actually had a colleague (Ivy league MBA) propose this to me a few days ago...
They said the same thing and advised me to start talking to my state senators to form an exploratory committee to see if its feasible.

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Bloomer

A wiseman once said great minds think alike.
Im known around here as a ranting lunatic I guess there is a fine line to being an insane genious.

Just remember me when you guys pull it all together!

This is what should happen it makes total sense doesnt it?

I mean we are doing nothing wrong!

If you are of a consenting age and you want to veiw this type of content then so be it!

The only thing Washington is trying to do is make sure that its on the up and up!

Because of the way porn producers are they are all alittle nervous to walk up to anyone and announce what they do for a living and for totally justified reasons indeed but if they are compliant then who gives a rats ass.
you would think they would want to prove their shit is on the up and up to those that are questioning them in the first place!

This goverment is so numb in the mind department I dont think all this 2257 bullshit needs to be this fucking complicated at all!

They make it like that because of the way the industry leaders are(candid).......

Bloomer

to make matters a little easier for the court system I think there should be a porn submission comity (those who submit new content to the government) this would allow producers to take a back seat as far as getting involved with the whole limelight situation.
The producers submit the content to the comity the comity to the government for approval.
This will allow the numb minded government to see that this industry is (ORGANIZED) that should set them back a lil bit as they wont believe their eyes!
Once this is set into effect all people have to do is use content that is governmentally approved!
Producers can submit new content on a regular basis and the comity would do the same and ,YAY more legal porn... No fucking worries.
Who will the comity be?
I think the industry should elect their own based on trust and honesty

born

Bingo!! My same thoughts!

B-

Voodoo

Count me in!

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Domains_Broker

That's why there's never been a better time to support these guys:
http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/FSCView.asp?coid=105

They are the ones fighting for all of us. Become a member!

contact:

Diane Duke
Executive Director
Free Speech Coalition
(818) 304-1712

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Jakke PNG

In finland we have a system that ALL videos must be sent to be approved by Finnish Board of Film Classification. Each video is then given an unique identifier number which you must put out either on the back of the DVD, or next to the clip on the internet. example: http://www.porngreen.com/fi/ see the "X-#######" over each of the big thumbs? That's the identifier.

These are all in one big central database (this includes 'mainstream' hollywood movies too), where you can see who made the movie, who produced it, where, when, and whether the clip in question is legal or not. They manually review only fetish-stuff and teen porn.. 'vanilla porn' is automatically approved. Criminal charges are brought upon anyone who sells either non-marked movies, or movies that are deemed illegal (ie. Bumfights is illegal, as is rape and violence pornography).

Similar system in the US would help clear the air.

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sarettah

You guys wanting the government to preapprove porn make me laugh my ass off.

I want the government as far away from my business as I can keep it and I would classify anyone who would openly invite the government into their business as extremely naive if not an outright fool.

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Jakke PNG

Well.. not in a country where porn isn't considered a sin. It's just another job.

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Bloomer

your right thats why Im suggesting an industry comity to handle such matters.
Im sure you are not the only one who feels this way,and Im not suggesting that (they)get a hold of you I am suggesting that the industry grows some balls and takes charge of what is theirs and shows these mutherfuckers what time it is!!!
By being organized and sticking it to them before they stick it to us....

sarettah

Doesn't matter if it's porn or any other business. Any time you get the government involved it takes more paper, more time, more energy, more money to accomplish the same goal.

Governments should build roads and defend countries and that is about it.

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sarettah

Content should not have to be submitted to the government.

I have the right of free speech. It should not be assumed that I am going to abuse that right by putting up illegal content prior to me putting content up. In the United States that is known as prior infringement on free speech. The government should prosecute those who put illegal content up when they put it up. Period.

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Bloomer

I I feel you on this but wouldnt it be nice to be part of a protected organization instead of fending for yourself and living in total paranoia?

sarettah

You mean like the Crips or the Bloods ?? Or maybe the Mafia, I hear they protect pretty good.

I am an American, of course I live in total paranoia. That is the price of a free society.

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