My take on the new record keeping laws. - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 04-06-2007, 10:41 PM

I have always kept models records, even if a girl turns up for a casting we ask what IDs she has. If she says none and looks anything like under 18 we don't take nude pictures of her.

I lived and worked through the Traci Lords scandal, know guys who worked with her and know the only thing that kept them out of prison was she had IDs. Faked but she did have them.

The new laws will not cost the industry one sign up, might cost a few sponsors but not the industry as a whole.

The industry will adapt, there are a few very obvious alternatives to giving thousands of affiliates models IDs. Sponsors who do could find themselves selling second rate content.

Good models are getting tougher and tougher to find because girls now know their friends and family have a very good chance of finding out what they are doing. Start giving out copies of their ID to any affiliate and you're going to find the pool of models dwindles fast.

How many affiliates, and what is their traffic worth, live and work in the US? I know a few big programs and few have anything but the big affiliates living in the US. Let's face it the time scale and odds on a noob affiliate reaching 5 sales a day are both long. $150 a day is not a big wage and I suspect many earn less.

If the minnows leave the traffic will stay. Webmasters do not CREATE traffic. They direct existing traffic. If half the guys making 3 or less sign ups a day left the business the other half left would start making 6 a day. OK the figures may not be 100% but the theory is right.

Some programs may start giving IDs out to any affiliate, because they are desperate or see it as an opportunity. Wait till their models find out.

Maybe the affiliate model will change. This is what I suspect and have a few ideas I am discussing. Much better than giving models IDs to any affiliate who asks. And much better than affiliates having to keep the documents.

Spunky · 04-06-2007, 10:44 PM

Either adapt or fall by the wayside

xclusive · 04-06-2007, 10:46 PM

magic 2257 links?

After Shock Media · 04-06-2007, 10:47 PM

Honestly its blah blah blah.

Why in the fuck is this a big deal now? Providers have been handing out ID's now for the last 10+ years, only difference is that the content has gone from a few bucks a picture to a few bucks a movie.

Only difference is that this time around sponsors often offer up content since they do not use all purchased random crap and are not easily promoted with store bought content anymore.

Paul Markham · 04-06-2007, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunky

Either adapt or fall by the wayside

Exactly. How desperate or cynical is a program that is prepared to give out a models ID to any affiliate who asks and sends a few hits?

Giving them to a guy sending 10 sign ups a day might be possible. Giving them to a newbie who just signed up? You have to be either on your last legs or the most cold hearted bastard out there.

Wonder which sponsor wants to be on the 6 o'clock news explaining why he gave the ID of a girl to a stalker? He will not be interviewed under a nick name and probably on his front door step, his neighbours will be impressed.

So how many of you want to risk everyone in your street knowing what your business is?

Maybe some one will phone 60 minutes and give them the idea of a great news item.

Let's face it if it's OK to hand out models IDs what's the problem?

Paul Markham · 04-06-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by After Shock Media

Honestly its blah blah blah.

Why in the fuck is this a big deal now? Providers have been handing out ID's now for the last 10+ years, only difference is that the content has gone from a few bucks a picture to a few bucks a movie.

Only difference is that this time around sponsors often offer up content since they do not use all purchased random crap and are not easily promoted with store bought content anymore.

Got NBCs phone number?

Think beyond this week, think long term.

Paul Markham · 04-06-2007, 11:59 PM

I just realised and please do not think I'm trying to be negative. I wear a seat belt when I drive.

Do you need to wait for a girl to be stalked, attacked or worse.

What happens when a model phones NBC and gives them a scoop.

Model gets pissed off or wants more money, she phones and says take down all my content or give me more money, you tell her she signed a release and you can't do either.

You find you're a news item here. Because she made a phone call.

Is an Internet pornographer giving out models IDs to anyone who asks nicely a good or bad news item for 60 minutes?

BOSS1 · 04-07-2007, 12:11 AM

I wonder how this will turn out

RawAlex · 04-07-2007, 12:20 AM

Paul, based on the judge's ruling, the only piece of model ID that will be given out is a blacked out photo ID showing only name and year of birth. I don't think that models will have an issue with that, after all, they are buck naked on the internet (and often getting fucked)...

That being said, it is not clear to me how 2257 will match up to Canadian and European privacy laws. It would seem that the demands of 2257 may exceed the legal rights to provide that information (especially if you sell all rights to a "primary producer").

Good luck to everyone with this one.

Paul Markham · 04-07-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, based on the judge's ruling, the only piece of model ID that will be given out is a blacked out photo ID showing only name and year of birth. I don't think that models will have an issue with that, after all, they are buck naked on the internet (and often getting fucked)...

That being said, it is not clear to me how 2257 will match up to Canadian and European privacy laws. It would seem that the demands of 2257 may exceed the legal rights to provide that information (especially if you sell all rights to a "primary producer").

Good luck to everyone with this one.

"I don't think that models will have an issue with that," OK then go for it.

It has nothing to do with what you think the models may or may not have an issue with, and if you know models you would not be making that statement, it's what the model can make from it that concerns me.

You just handed a person prepared to pose nude for a guy with a camera a gun.

As I said I'm thinking worse case scenario here.

Will affiliates have to post their address and details on a TGP gallery?

Boobzooka · 04-07-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Paul, based on the judge's ruling, the only piece of model ID that will be given out is a blacked out photo ID showing only name and year of birth. I don't think that models will have an issue with that, after all, they are buck naked on the internet (and often getting fucked)...

Speaking from my limited personal experience, models have a BIG problem with that. Many voice such concerns when handing me their IDs. They want reassurance that their identifying info won't be shared with anyone short of a federal agent. I agree with these girls that their real names should be kept confidential. You can do a lot with just legal name and birth date. Sponsors spreading them across the internet might gain favor with some affiliates, but it's putting profit ahead of people's privacy (and perhaps safety).

Not that I'm naive enough to expect much concern after reading some of the sick misogynistic spew from so-called webmasters here. So will you all honestly inform your models prior to the shoot that their legal name and DOB will be given out freely to anyone who asks? Do you actually have permission, in writing, from every girl on your site/s, to do that? You might be setting yourself up for a different sort of trouble.

Melody · 04-07-2007, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

"Will affiliates have to post their address and details on a TGP gallery?

We (well the pros) do every time we post the gallery -- on a domain whois.

That said, we're not putting ourselves "out there" quite so personally.

Paul Markham · 04-07-2007, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DareRing

Speaking from my limited personal experience, models have a BIG problem with that. Many voice such concerns when handing me their IDs. They want reassurance that their identifying info won't be shared with anyone short of a federal agent. I agree with these girls that their real names should be kept confidential. You can do a lot with just legal name and birth date. Sponsors spreading them across the internet might gain favor with some affiliates, but it's putting profit ahead of people's privacy (and perhaps safety).

Not that I'm naive enough to expect much concern after reading some of the sick misogynistic spew from so-called webmasters here. So will you all honestly inform your models prior to the shoot that their legal name and DOB will be given out freely to anyone who asks? Do you actually have permission, in writing, from every girl on your site/s, to do that? You might be setting yourself up for a different sort of trouble.

I'm with you on this one.

So who wants to be the first sponsor to be on 60 Minutes?

Grapesoda · 04-07-2007, 07:21 AM

good stuff paul . . . -bmb

Grapesoda · 04-07-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DareRing

Speaking from my limited personal experience, models have a BIG problem with that. Many voice such concerns when handing me their IDs. They want reassurance that their identifying info won't be shared with anyone short of a federal agent. I agree with these girls that their real names should be kept confidential. You can do a lot with just legal name and birth date. Sponsors spreading them across the internet might gain favor with some affiliates, but it's putting profit ahead of people's privacy (and perhaps safety).

Not that I'm naive enough to expect much concern after reading some of the sick misogynistic spew from so-called webmasters here. So will you all honestly inform your models prior to the shoot that their legal name and DOB will be given out freely to anyone who asks? Do you actually have permission, in writing, from every girl on your site/s, to do that? You might be setting yourself up for a different sort of trouble.

that's strange . . not one model has ever asked about her ID's . . wonder why they are asking you? what are you telling them to have them start asking questions? do you know what yer doing? I only shoot about 350 models a year (including test shots)but that doesn't mean I have all the answers . . I'd love to hear what yer doing

Steve Awesome · 04-07-2007, 07:27 AM

No model has ever voiced her concern with handing over her ID to me. Odd.

jayeff · 04-07-2007, 07:40 AM

At this stage of the game, debating the wrongs and rights of this situation is irrelevant. It has become an entirely pragmatic issue.

If you want US-based customers (content producers) or affiliates (sponsors), other than those who are stupid enough to risk operating without the required documentation, you are going to have to provide it.

No-one is forcing you to deal with US webmasters, so if you aren't willing - for whatever reason - to help them comply with their laws, then fine. That's your decision. The rest is mental masturbation...

Quotealex · 04-07-2007, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Will affiliates have to post their address and details on a TGP gallery?

Yes they will have to have a link on their page with their name and address....

Paul Markham · 04-07-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanton

that's strange . . not one model has ever asked about her ID's . . wonder why they are asking you? what are you telling them to have them start asking questions? do you know what yer doing? I only shoot about 350 models a year (including test shots)but that doesn't mean I have all the answers . . I'd love to hear what yer doing

We get asked it all the time why do we need to see the models IDS and take a picture of the model holding them on each scene. A simple "It's the law in the US, where we sell the content, that we are able to prove you are over 18" usually suffices.

There are solutions to this situation much better than giving 1,000s of affiliates and those who claim to be affiliates models IDs.

Let's face it if we stopped giving out content like confetti it would not do any harm, if we had something affective to stop pirates and free content it again would not do any harm.

Dare I say it, if we lost all the US affiliates, would it harm us as an industry?

Jayeff, the only thing we need from the US is the 100s of 1,000s of US guys signing up.

Paul Markham · 04-07-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex from Montreal

Yes they will have to have a link on their page with their name and address....

That more than the IDs will probably put most US affiliates and some sites out of the business.

While they may be very willing for us to give out models IDs many of them will not want to give out their addresses AND I UNDERSTAND WHY. I would be very cautious about giving out my address if I was in the US and especially if I worked from home.

[QUOTE=Melod We (well the pros) do every time we post the gallery -- on a domain whois.

That said, we're not putting ourselves "out there" quite so personally. [/QUOTE] Domain Whois I think are about to go private with personal info and I can put any info into a domain Whois. Even when you find obviously wrong info little is done about it.

cybermike · 04-07-2007, 09:57 AM

So yet another thread bashing affiliates?

jonesy · 04-07-2007, 10:51 AM

markhams bullshit is stacked so high in this thread you need wings to stay above it.

RawAlex · 04-07-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DareRing

Not that I'm naive enough to expect much concern after reading some of the sick misogynistic spew from so-called webmasters here. So will you all honestly inform your models prior to the shoot that their legal name and DOB will be given out freely to anyone who asks? Do you actually have permission, in writing, from every girl on your site/s, to do that? You might be setting yourself up for a different sort of trouble.

Read the judge's ruling. name and YEAR of birth, not DOB.

baddog · 04-07-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I have always kept models records, even if a girl turns up for a casting we ask what IDs she has. If she says none and looks anything like under 18 we don't take nude pictures of her.

Only if she looks under 18? Pretty sure that isn't how the regulations are written.

GigoloMason · 04-07-2007, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Giving them to a guy sending 10 sign ups a day might be possible. Giving them to a newbie who just signed up? You have to be either on your last legs or the most cold hearted bastard out there.

You do see the glaring logical disconnect with this statement right?

04-06-2007, 10:41 PM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	My take on the new record keeping laws. I have always kept models records, even if a girl turns up for a casting we ask what IDs she has. If she says none and looks anything like under 18 we don't take nude pictures of her. I lived and worked through the Traci Lords scandal, know guys who worked with her and know the only thing that kept them out of prison was she had IDs. Faked but she did have them. The new laws will not cost the industry one sign up, might cost a few sponsors but not the industry as a whole. The industry will adapt, there are a few very obvious alternatives to giving thousands of affiliates models IDs. Sponsors who do could find themselves selling second rate content. Good models are getting tougher and tougher to find because girls now know their friends and family have a very good chance of finding out what they are doing. Start giving out copies of their ID to any affiliate and you're going to find the pool of models dwindles fast. How many affiliates, and what is their traffic worth, live and work in the US? I know a few big programs and few have anything but the big affiliates living in the US. Let's face it the time scale and odds on a noob affiliate reaching 5 sales a day are both long. $150 a day is not a big wage and I suspect many earn less. If the minnows leave the traffic will stay. Webmasters do not CREATE traffic. They direct existing traffic. If half the guys making 3 or less sign ups a day left the business the other half left would start making 6 a day. OK the figures may not be 100% but the theory is right. Some programs may start giving IDs out to any affiliate, because they are desperate or see it as an opportunity. Wait till their models find out. Maybe the affiliate model will change. This is what I suspect and have a few ideas I am discussing. Much better than giving models IDs to any affiliate who asks. And much better than affiliates having to keep the documents. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-06-2007, 10:44 PM	#2
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,944	Either adapt or fall by the wayside __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

04-06-2007, 10:46 PM	#3
xclusive Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 35,218	magic 2257 links? __________________ I support MediumPimpin.com / Shemp's Outlawtgp.com /

04-06-2007, 10:47 PM	#4
After Shock Media It's coming look busy Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn". Posts: 35,299	Honestly its blah blah blah. Why in the fuck is this a big deal now? Providers have been handing out ID's now for the last 10+ years, only difference is that the content has gone from a few bucks a picture to a few bucks a movie. Only difference is that this time around sponsors often offer up content since they do not use all purchased random crap and are not easily promoted with store bought content anymore. __________________ [email protected] ICQ:135982156 AIM: Aftershockmed1a MSN: [email protected]

04-06-2007, 11:59 PM	#7
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	I just realised and please do not think I'm trying to be negative. I wear a seat belt when I drive. Do you need to wait for a girl to be stalked, attacked or worse. What happens when a model phones NBC and gives them a scoop. Model gets pissed off or wants more money, she phones and says take down all my content or give me more money, you tell her she signed a release and you can't do either. You find you're a news item here. Because she made a phone call. Is an Internet pornographer giving out models IDs to anyone who asks nicely a good or bad news item for 60 minutes? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

04-07-2007, 12:11 AM	#8
BOSS1 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Montreal / Sparta Posts: 4,331	I wonder how this will turn out

04-07-2007, 12:20 AM	#9
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Paul, based on the judge's ruling, the only piece of model ID that will be given out is a blacked out photo ID showing only name and year of birth. I don't think that models will have an issue with that, after all, they are buck naked on the internet (and often getting fucked)... That being said, it is not clear to me how 2257 will match up to Canadian and European privacy laws. It would seem that the demands of 2257 may exceed the legal rights to provide that information (especially if you sell all rights to a "primary producer"). Good luck to everyone with this one.

04-07-2007, 07:21 AM	#14
Grapesoda So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montana Posts: 46,238	good stuff paul . . . -bmb

04-07-2007, 07:27 AM	#16
Steve Awesome Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mid-West! Posts: 1,575	No model has ever voiced her concern with handing over her ID to me. Odd. __________________ *The AbbieCash Porn Network. Billing processing by CCBILL. Join our affiliate program today*. RealDollSex \| AbbieTeen \| GamerChicks \| ModelTexans \| HottieCams Nintendo 3DS Porn Blog \| Steve's Adult Industry Blog \| Abbie Bueller's Porn Blog

04-07-2007, 07:40 AM	#17
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	At this stage of the game, debating the wrongs and rights of this situation is irrelevant. It has become an entirely pragmatic issue. If you want US-based customers (content producers) or affiliates (sponsors), other than those who are stupid enough to risk operating without the required documentation, you are going to have to provide it. No-one is forcing you to deal with US webmasters, so if you aren't willing - for whatever reason - to help them comply with their laws, then fine. That's your decision. The rest is mental masturbation...

04-07-2007, 09:57 AM	#21
cybermike Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ny Posts: 4,113	So yet another thread bashing affiliates? __________________ Hey surfers how about some The Best Porn Sites

04-07-2007, 10:51 AM	#22
jonesy Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,688	markhams bullshit is stacked so high in this thread you need wings to stay above it. __________________ . Shooting Bikini Girls