jayeff

Which is the basic flaw in panels such as this: uncomfortable questions are ignored while whoever is the subject gets to present prepared answers which say no more than a typical press release.

XXX is setting up this industry to be raped. Giving the would-be rapist a public forum is affording a veneer of respectability that ICM does not deserve.

Here is a company cynically applying to be registrar in the guise of attempting to protect minors, when its principals have to know - at least as well as anyone here - that this TLD will not do that at all. This is a company which doesn't care if it facilitates the eventual ghettoization of this industry, so long as it makes a profit. This is a company with such a poor reputation, that it is widely suspected of having made secret deals to gain much of whatever support it has within the industry.

So asking if ICM made sweetheart deals and if so, with whom, is not irrelevant. Indeed if ICM will not answer that question, it should not be given a forum in which to answer others, not least because if ICM has little credibility, what sense does it make to place any credence in the answers to hypotheticals about minutiae?

This is a company which may be given a monopoly such that one day it could in effect be deciding who can operate in online porn and on what terms. If its application to be the registrar for the XXX TLD isn't totally transparent and honest, details they can interpret and renegotiate as they go along, are the real irrelevancy.

Webby

Addition to previous post:

If a party wishes to operate a TLD there is no obligation or requirement to undertake to do anything other than manage that TLD.

This does not include donating excessive domain charges to third rate "charities" who act as intermediaries with law agencies or engaging other organizations to monitor the owner/operators of these TLD's.

Tho I may be a strong supporter of action against child abuse, it is not the responsibility of any TLD operator or the adult industry to assume rights in this area. To do so is crass hypocrisy of the lowest order - and another form of abuse of children. Engaging in hypocritical activity does not gain the respect of others working in the area of child protection or law agencies - the most you'll get from a govt officer working in this area is a dry smirk, and rightly.



Fight the hyprocrisy - and avoid spewing up

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DWB

No, we are not. As a moderator and given the fact that YOU have the first 20 minutes to deliver some incredibly hard hitting answers, then along with that job should come the responsibility of asking the most difficult questions and not the simple ones that the webmasters can ask when you are done. If you can't do that, and you feel that any question you do not agree with is not relevant, with all due respect, maybe you should pass the job off to someone with a set of balls who can see this for what it is.

While I'm sure you will do a great job, and I am not attacking you, I am saying that with this gig I feel you took on a certain amount of responsibility and by doing so, you now speak for all of us. And if you are going to speak for all of us, for that first 20 minutes, then ALL respectful questions are relevant to this panel.

Well they should. They intend to ass rape us, one .XXX domain at a time. This is about greed, nothing else. And yes, I know what I am buying, it will be a series of steps, one at a time, closer to the demise of this industry.


I will wait for the press release on that one. No need to waste hot air on an answer they will dodge or not have a true answer for. I mean, it doesn't matter what I think either way right?


You mean like how they are protecting producers from inspections, while the FBI inspects them anyway? ;-)


The only way to achieve this is to force us to give up our .com domains. Otherwise, everyone will still be able to view porn. How fucking dumb does a person have to be to not see this?


No finger pointing, those are ALL legit questions.

In regards to Tom leaving the FSC, I don't know him or his true agenda. None of us do. Maybe he is a good man, maybe he is a bottom feeder, who knows? Just the same as I was fucked over by someone I thought was my friend (see sig), I do not trust anyone in this business anymore ESPECIALLY those who are trying to hurt the industry or spin the .XXX bullshit. And with all due respect, on some of your posts in this thread, you do sound like you're spinning it. Especially in regards to my first question that you refuse to accept as an important one, one that even a moderator should be asking. The mere fact that you say it, my question, is a bull shit questions and it is not relevant to the scope of the panel, throws a red flag and makes me question if you are the right person to be asking questions at all. And I say that based only on the fact that you think, what I feel (any many others feel) is one of the most important questions, and you dismiss it as not relevant and bullshit. Your response to that sums it all up nicely.

I don't know you and you have never bought me drinks, so I can't say you're a stand up guy. But I have always read your posts and agree with most of what you have to say. With that said, you do sound a lot like you are spinning the issue in regards to .XXX.

I'm not here to argue with you, but I do feel that you need to consider what IS relevant to the people you are going to be speaking for. You do not stand to lose what we will lose.

Fight the first 20 minutes!

FightThisPatent

exactly. which is why .XXX TLD is such a unique TLD... that IFFOR was needed to be created to provide some kind of ovesight because ICANN didn't want to do it, but what has evolved is that .XXX is a content-based TLD that has guidelines and rules that go beyond other TLDs.

This is the rough waters that ICANN is sitting in, is certainly the focus by outside forces like Canada, who are saying that ICANN is overstepping its mission.

There is a whole other battle being waged at ICANN's level about what they are doing.

This .XXX panel is facing the direct result of planning and agreements that has created the structure around IFFOR and ICM.



So besides which industry players are involved in .XXX, any other questions?

I have presented several links to source documents for which ICANN has received, read, and will ultimately be making their thumbs up/down decision in a few months.

Anything in there worth bringing up? I'll be diving into all the documents later on.


Fight the arm chair!

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DWB

Since this is pretty much a done deal...

Will all registars be selling .XXX or will we have to use just one? And if so, what security measures will be in place to protect the domain from high jacking?

Also, what information will we be required to provide to this registar when purchasing a .XXX domain?

FightThisPatent

ICM thought it was a done deal last time around when ICANN voted thumbs down, and its not over until the nails are in the coffin.

I believe that the technical issues of the agreement may have been worked out, that the objections that some countries have made, may have been addressed.

Canada's recent posting against ICANN's expansion of their mission with content-based TLD is a very good sign and insight into the other battles that are going on above us.

I believe that the direct input of the adult industry on .XXX being bad, is long since past. Right now, it is the objections of the individual countries that is the voice, and as citizens in those countries, the vocal opposition that is being made on the ICANN board does have representation through the country level.. not at the industry level.

In all of this, i am not conceding defeat.. i am just looking at it now from a different angle to understand what does all of this mean, beyond the top level idea of .XXX = bad.

That's why this .XXX panel is important to ask questions and listen to answers.


Fight the fat lady singing!

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baddog

Why should I be offended that you can't see the big picture? That sounds like a personal problem.

FightThisPatent

point taken.


Fight the short reply!

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tony286

I got one, if dot coms get first chance say if the com is not being actively used but the .net is, who gets it?
Do people have a real shot at the cherry domains? Like Video.xxx? or are those already spoken for?
What will you be doing for a day job when .xxx is shot down once and for all? lol I couldnt help it lol

Webby

Sure Brandon - this scenario does not fall within the ICANN brief and is, as you prob know, a sore point with other nations as well as Canada and ruffling ICANN a little.

So... Since IFFOR are the "sponsoring organization" supporting ICM in their application to ICANN.. there may be a grain of relevance in establishing who IFFOR actually are and the motivation for establishing this organisation (sure we know, but that's another story) and what activitities it has undertaken towards "international online responsibility" since it's inception.

Related questions are along the lines of...
What activities has IFFOR been involved in or organized as part of it's role towards "international online responsibility"?
Is IFFOR a registered charity? If so, what is the Register Charity Number and the the legal entity name it operates under?
Who are the officers?
When did IFFOR start operating?
Who funds the costs of IFFOR overhead?
Who is the registrant of iffor.org? (sure we know, but illustrates something)
Why does ICM make claims that "IFFOR is and will remain independent from ICM Registry" when Stuart Lawley/A Technology Company, Inc. owns the domain name, iffor.org and the same ownership exists for icmregistry.com?

Bottom line... the application to ICANN is based on another one of Jason Hendeles 'stategic plans' to fake up substance for the application using a purported 'charity' which has no track record, claims to be independent and is owned/controlled by the applicants.

Hendeles is not unknown for his exaggerations - there are several claims of his abilities in the application to ICANN which are clearly false. This is very close to the business ethics of iBill and similar to other Hendeles 'corporate designs" such as NMN (National Moving Network) which were fraudulent.

Simplified, we are talking about corporate scam artists here - not businessmen with a social conscious.



PS Instead of asking questions, the session needs to be in the form of a deposition taken by lawyers in preparation for future legal action

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seeric

Here is my question


"Where you born this much of an asshole, or is it something you work at really hard to accomplish?"

FightThisPatent

This is an excellent summary of why .xxx is bad as posted up to ICANN by Paul Zapf. Paul, excellent write up!

http://forum.icann.org/lists/xxx-icm.../msg00593.html

Fight the long read!


ps. for those that need cliff notes for this, .xxx = bad

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polish_aristocrat

see also this thread

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/703172-breaking-news-changed-prediction-regarding-xxx-read-care-xxx.html

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d00t

Well said Mike!


FTP - You were obviously asked to moderate the .xxx forum because of your long term stance AGAINST .xxx and clearly most webmasters support you in being AGAINST .xxx If now you are not prepared to ask the right questions -regardless of how tough they are - you are no longer representing what the vast majority of adult webmasters really want.

Everyone here can see it by simply reading your posts, so why not just be honest? Why the change in game plan?

FightThisPatent

I have appreciated all the responses, and in particular DirtyWhiteBoys post to me on this subject, and I will ask the question (knowing full well it won't get the desired response), and move on to my list of questions that should give clarification answers to other vague or misunderstood issues.


Fight the rhetorical!

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FightThisPatent

while alot of people want to see this list of .XXX supporters, and i do believe there is such a list, i am troubled in general by the separate and divide.

Same thing happened with Acacia.. webmasters wanted to know which companies sold out.. and talked about boycotting those companies.

While that boycotting talk was going on, i repeatedly and consistantly said, boycotting is not the answer.. the better answer is to support those that are in the fight.. those that are spending lots of money to knock down an issue that affects all webmasters.

While there were some that did help to support financially and to send traffic, it wasn't the response that anyone would have like to have seen, that showed the adult community did support those that were in the fight on their behalf... it showed, much like with PBS fundraiser drives, a few will support and the rest will just coast on the benefits.

Funding for FSC is in the same boat.. it's the one organization that has adult webmasters interest at heart, but the financial support isn't as strong as it should be.

So all of this talk of getting upset with .XXX is all well and good, but the reality is as a whole, this industry has not stepped up.

Sponsors could have emailed their affiliates last year to get them to email into the comment period..

ICM has over 1,000 adult webmasters from around the world that submitted support for .XXX that he presented to ICANN (this was published in an interview with him in avnonline article).

We couldn't get 1,000 webmasters to post up against. There hasn't been 1,000 different nicks posting up against .XXX even in keyboard warrior mode.

Affiliate webmasters have the most to lose in all of this, and only a few sponsors have been stepping up, as you can see from the public stance taken a year ago at my website: http://www.FightTheDotXXX.com

I would hope that what the 2257 issue has awaken people to the fact that "united we stand, divided we fall" rings so true.. that there are outside forces that challenges people's livelihoods..and to take action when called for.

as far as my "game plan".. the path of public debate over .XXX good vs bad was over years ago when those that gave their support helped to demonstrate that the adult industry wants .XXX, and the lack of large demonstrations last year, and its gone to a higher level of policy and politics.

What can be addressed is what does it mean to get a .XXX domain, what are its impacts and implications upon businesses. These are the kinds of questions that i am looking to target for answers, because purchasing a .XXX domain, means agreeing to a set of terms and conditions that doesn't exist for .COM names

With Acacia, 2257, and .XXX, and whatever future things that come, I can only hope that someday, the adult webmaster industry will stop being cats.



Fight the herding!

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polish_aristocrat

FightThisPatent, I always agreed with you in 98%, but this time I really don't understand why you assume that "Xxx will be approved".

Did Stuart Lawley really convince you by sayiing that your definition of sponsored community was wrong and his difinition was right? (OK, I believe I asked this already)

Most importantly, do you know the opinions of ICANN BOARD DIRECTORS regarding .xxx? That's like 15 different people and all of them has his/her own opinion and although we shouldn't be too naive and idealistic when it comes to how the new TLD approval process works, I'm sure they are having debates around this subject and each of them has their own opinion, which... sometimes..sometimes... can be influenced by arguments as well.

As I stated above, ICANN is aware of the upcoming Xbiz conference and the presense of the ICM guys there, but that doesnt mean either that it's an indication of adult industry support towards .xxx.

In my opinion, being strongly opposed towards the geneal .xxx idea can help.... while getting answers if one can register muslims.xxx is an academic discussion.

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Tom_PM

Just ask them why they dont think passing .XXX will result in the instant doubling (at the least) of adult websites on the internet.

If I own 20 .com domains right now that are adult, I'm going to buy the matching 20 .xxx and there ya go. Simple.

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polish_aristocrat

ok, I see you already replied to me to same questions in another thread

too many of them suddenly to keep track

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jayeff

Your implication is that these activities are mutually exclusive and that is not true.

When an issue is current, it needs to be fought and thus doing so (or supporting those who are fighting) makes sense.

However, there is also the future. The main consequence of there traditionally having been no price to pay for working contrary to the long-term interests of the industry, surely must be to encourage a similar attitude among others in the future. I believe that front needs to be fought too, which is where boycotting comes in.

Take the situation with Zango: in a more organized industry, the only way programs would have got involved, were if they were already operating without affiliates or had immediate plans to do so. Even then they might have hesitated for fear of legal action over trademark abuse, etc.

As it is, even the worst offenders can still show up at our industry events and are still welcome on boards like this. So not only does the daily hijacking of thousands of dollars from both affiliates and other sponsors continue unabated, but what message is being sent for when the next scam comes along?

You get in a fight with someone, you don't just defend yourself. If you want to make sure they don't come back and that everyone in the audience will think twice before tangling with you, you punish them.

MichaelP

Since I live in Canada but I host my domains on US servers.. How this will affect me ?

I already got some let say XYZ.NET domains and Some other guys have the XYZ.COM domain... Who will be able to register the XYZ.XXX ? Me, him, First come first served (me or him) or anyone... ??

txs

FightThisPatent

lawley has stated publically that .XXX will open up the namespace, and even more porn sites will be created.

the religious groups are fearful of this, thus their reason to be against .XXX

So what used to be yellow.com as a yellow pages websites, can now have yellow.xxx as a urine fetish site, etc.



Fight the even more free porn!

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gigi

Nice, Webby ... well said

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FightThisPatent

.XXX only affects you if you want to buy those domains.

as far as your question, exactly what we want to know. The answer is only applicable to those that might/would be interested in buying a domain.

Those that are opposed and not going to bother buying .xxx, then will find the quesiton and answer to be irrelevant.


Fight the take a number!

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polish_aristocrat

bump

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FightThisPatent

I've got my list go questions ready.. heading to LA tomorrow morning.

Should be interesting.. i will post up a commentary of the events..

Thanks to all for your contributions.

Fight the end of the question period!

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Socks

My question is:

When will they start listening to the people who are actually in this industry? There are thousands of us against this, and a handful of people for it, mostly because they stand to gain something.

This is the honest truth, I hope this question is brought up, because it's the most important issue. The adult industry has always governed itself, and people who overstep the boundaries are dealt with by the police and government. Why should that change?