$20,000+ stolen from my accounts

[quiet]

i just got off the phone with my bank - to freeze all my accounts. over 20K was taken from them (spread out over several accounts) over the past 2 days.

pretty lame. i'm in Canada, but all the money has been taken out from the US. i'm going down to the bank as soon as they open (about 2 hours). does anyone know if the banks should cover the amounts (via insurance)?

the guy i talked to said that it likely has something to do with my trip to NYC a couple weeks ago.

damn.

[Gary]

They should cover you up to 60K. But that might just be for bankruptcy now that i think about it. You might be fucked for the 20K.

[nocostporn]

no further explaination on HOW it happened? I'm sure you want an answer more than the money....

[quiet]

Originally posted by Gary
They should cover you up to 60K. But that might just be for bankruptcy now that i think about it. You might be fucked for the 20K.

i was thinking the same thing. i thought i read something about fraud coverage a couple of years ago, but i could be wrong...

[Pathfinder]

When you learn more details, please post the info. May put others on alert.

[quiet]

Originally posted by nocostporn
no further explaination on HOW it happened? I'm sure you want an answer more than the money....

this is just the start of the investigation. sounds like i will be spending most of the day at the bank, going over transactions etc (my accounts are extremely 'busy').

[Theo]

damn! quiet, good luck with it, i hope everything will be ok soon

[playa]

with my bank they say your only obligated to $50 against fraud

[Gutterboy]

shit. I dunno anything about Canadian banking laws, but I hope you get it sorted out when you go down there.

Hope everything goes well

[Jayson]

Generally you are pretty safe. It really depends on how they got it out of your account.

If it was via credit card then its normally only $50 you are up for, provided the bank cant produce your signature on the charges.

If it was out of your account, again they are going to have to produce some sort of signature or authority. If they cant then you should be right.

This is of course unless the bank can prove you were negligent - say keeping your pin number with your ATM card.

Bleh quiet, you're such an ultrapussy ! Millions in the bank and whining about stolen $20k Just kidding - that really does suck.

In fact, I had my credit card stolen and abused about a year ago. It was only around a grant, but after roughly 6 weeks and several talks with the bank they refunded the money. I am sure that you will get your money back - in most fraud cases the insurance pays

[quiet]

it appears to have all been accessed via atms/online banking. accessing my bank accounts, nothing to do with credit cards.

i certainly don't keep my pin with my card. in fact, i only used my card a single time while in NYC.

my accountant is up and heading over to my place right now. it's now 7:45 am in my time zone, and i'm going to pour myself a very stiff gin and tonic :)

[chodadog]

That's pretty fucked up. It'll be interesting to hear what actually happened. Hope you get your cash back, good luck.

[Jayson]

Thats where it can become more difficut as because ATM's can theoretically only be accessed if you know the PIN then the bank will normally play prick.

Most of the time if you are strong enough they will have to cave unless they can prove you were negligent - although they will try and make you prove you werent. Just dont buy that line.

I had $45,000 taken out of a credit card once and it didnt cost me a cent. Its amazing how quickly they do it. It was a restraunt and when they take your card away to process the charge they copy it electronically so it will work in swipe machines and then they duplicate them and go for it.

Alot of the time when it is electronic transactions, you will find they are small or they are done at strange times of the day. If they are professional crooks they know when the banks systems are resetting. There is normally an hour in the the day when the ATM/EFTPOS network goes into rolloever mode and cant check the transactions properly.

[quiet]

also interesting - i have always had possession of my bank card. these transactions didn't start until 2 days ago. it didn't happen using my actual card - the guy i talked to suggested my card was cloned (though he admitted he was not a security expert).

[Houdini]

I had a problem with someone using my debit card # and making purchases at two jewlery stores, one in New York and one in New Jersey. If a debit card has a credit card logo, you don't need a pin to make a purchase. That's how someone made purchases with mine. It was just over $1000 dollars and the bank had my money back in my account within 2 days. When they prove it's fraudulent, any transactions that are unauthorized are covered.

it might have happened that a waiter in a restaurant had a cloning device and simply downloaded your card info to his reader... that would explain the fraud...

good luck anyway.

[Jayson]

Originally posted by quiet
also interesting - i have always had possession of my bank card. these transactions didn't start until 2 days ago. it didn't happen using my actual card - the guy i talked to suggested my card was cloned (though he admitted he was not a security expert).

Thats what they did to my card. You can build a device to read and store the magnetic strip for $50 or something stupid.

It takes them two seconds and then they normally make a few or in my case a few hundred copies and start using them around the same time, normally with smallish transactions but occassionaly some larger ones.

[quiet]

Equinox: the thing is, i use my card very rarely. i only used it once in NYC, and that was at an ATM.

Houdini: good to hear

Originally posted by quiet
Equinox: the thing is, i use my card very rarely. i only used it once in NYC, and that was at an ATM.

Houdini: good to hear

maybe you don't remember the other two times you used it in a bar for buying the ladies the drinks at 4:12am ...

[lawpal]

If you were really ripped off, get a lawyer, and fight for your money. The Bank will do everything possible to disclaim liability, but most likely there are legal remedies you can pursue and obtain close to a full recovery. Whatever you do, do not sign anything at the Bank until you have legal counsel review it. Don't be a cheap shit. Pay a few grand to a lawyer to save 20k. The economics work in your favor.

[quiet]

i'm not a cheap shit about such things. i have a considerable amount of money across all my accounts - i can always threaten to pull all my money, then and there, if they give me any serious hassle.

[Thomas N]

Quiet, that is truly messed up. I agree with what was said earlier, don't sign anything that may relieve the bank of responsibility. As I understand it you are pretty wealthy? Then you should have an attorney I assume. March into the bank with your accountant and attorney, let them know you mean business. Tell them when there is a discrepency in any of your enterprises for so much as a dollar, it is looked into closely. Then let them know you expect the money to be back in your account asap.

Just my thoughts.

[jimmyf]

From what you say the money is missing from more than one account. This kind of stuff happens all the time with
banks. Your accounts was chosen because you have quit a bit in them and who ever did it thought you would not
miss it so fast.
No way No how will a bank ever admit they have been Hacked again, after what happened to CitiBank a few years
ago. Someone hacked them for 10 million.. They went public with it... They lost 100's of millions... There stock went to
shit... Took 'em a long time to recover.. I'll give you odds your not the only one missing money. Now see what
happens when you have all that nice money. Don't take any shit from them... Be very to the point after they get
through bull shitting you... And tell them you want the money back in your account RAT now... Not later but have
them do it while your setting there.

[MikeEP]

Quiet, sorry to hear that bro. Same thing happened to a friend of mine. He had 27k ripped off from his checking account. Be prepared for tons of paperwork.

[[Labret]]

lame. someone would die for that.

[mjrools23]

dam that sux

[RW316]

that sux big balls

[ServerGenius]

Cloning of ATM cards is very possible 2 months ago 3 Dutch Banks
blocked each over 5000 accounts because of a big scam. All the
money lost was insured...I don't how it works in the US but
cloning ATM cards is quite easy.

DynaMite

[Pathfinder]

Originally posted by DynaSpain
Cloning of ATM cards is very possible 2 months ago 3 Dutch Banks
blocked each over 5000 accounts because of a big scam. All the
money lost was insured...I don't how it works in the US but
cloning ATM cards is quite easy.

DynaMite

I recall seeing something about this on TV one time here in the US. As I recall it went something like this: A person using hi-powered binocluars, would spy on an ATM and write down the PIN numbers, being used, and then had some kind of device to clone the cards being used. Walla, cloned card and PIN number.

[RockDaddy]

There was some stuff on 20/20 or something a while back. Big time business. They install vid cameras above the atm machines to get your pin, and somehow are able to get the credit card number when you make a purchase with it, then they have a machine that makes them a new card.

Someone used my wifes debit card information about a year ago and took out over $2000 over the course of a year (she never balanced her checkbook)

The bank gave her 100% of the money for up to the last 90 days of the fradulent charges.

[SunTzu]

quiet - sorry to hear about that man, my parents were a victim of this several years ago, for $10k. But since it was proven that it was not authorized (fraudulent check cashed at the bank), the bank paid up no problem.

It sure sounds like a card cloning incident. I saw on the news also here in CA that people's cards and pins were being ripped off. The thieves would install fake atms in malls, and small stores. Apparently nobody questions someone installing an atm.

Try to only go to major atms, or places you've already been.

[julia]

that sucks!!
what I think is if you did not lose your card at any time and never discolsed your pin number to anyone (including ex-girlfriend and all) then the bank are at fault... If their system is not secure and fraud is possible via their system (atm or internet banking or cloning a card) then they are at fault, how could you know? Don't let them make you think you did something wrond here, as long as you are sure of the fact that you did not lose or disclose infos... you are not responsible at all!
Good luck and keep us posted (wouldn't want that happening to my couple hundred bucks in the bank!! LOL)

[Sly_RJ]

Fuck, thanks for this thread. A great reminder to watch transactions more closely...

[GTS Mark]

Quiet, you will be fine. If you funds were in a Canadian bank they are CDIC insured for up to 60k Canadian per account.

You secretely pay fees to your bank for this insurance but you never really hear about it. You will be fine, it might take a couple of weeks for the bank to cover the fraud lost but you will be compensated.

DH

P.S. I used to work for 2 major Canadian banks

[cherrylula]

Damn that sucks.... hope it all works out in your favor, quiet.

I fucking hate banks. I have a fun money account that I do not use much, but last week I noticed for some reason there was a deduction for $100 that said "deposit error." It was from a deposit in april, and I cant find my receipt to see wtf happened.

I spent ten minutes arguing with their fucking customer service person who claimed she could not prove it was a bank error, and therefore would not refund an overdraft fee. How the fuck is it NOT a bank error? I had to ask her if she really thought I got access to the banks computer system and credited myself an extra $100 in April, and they just caught this in July. Then they happen to deduct this hundred bucks when I have three pending debit card transactions (gee go figure) and try to charge me $20 bucks a pop in OD fees. Of course they fixed it when I got her supervisor on the phone and yes, threatened to close ALL my accounts with them.

Legal fucking loan sharks. I hate banks.

[jules180]

quiet and others.

never use those debit/master card and debit visas, for any store or internet purchases. It gives fraudsters direct access to your bank accounts. Only use credit cards and just pay them off every month. That way if there is fruad, you just dont pay your bill and let the credit card fraud dept handle it. Much better than the guilty till proven innocent mentality banks have if your bank account was wiped out. I had a fraud incident a few years back. it took up tons of time and about 2 months before they gave the cash back. and that was at Bof A.

[Sly_RJ]

Originally posted by jules180
quiet and others.

never use those debit/master card and debit visas, for any store or internet purchases. It gives fraudsters direct access to your bank accounts. Only use credit cards and just pay them off every month. That way if there is fruad, you just dont pay your bill and let the credit card fraud dept handle it. Much better than the guilty till proven innocent mentality banks have if your bank account was wiped out. I had a fraud incident a few years back. it took up tons of time and about 2 months before they gave the cash back. and that was at Bof A.

Just don't pay your bill? Won't that kill your credit?

[jules180]

it wont kill your credit if it is a disputed charge untill resolved by the bank, -- the disputed amount anyway.

[GTS Mark]

Another good idea would be to get in touch with Equifax. They are the credit bureau which most banks in Canada report to. Call them and explain your situation. This way if more fraudulent incidents come up your credit will not suffer. They will put a notice on your account warning of fraud attempts in the past and all future credit applications will be turned down until they can verify the applications with you.

Call your bank they will have the number for them.

DH

[SleazyDream]

i would tell them that it's THEIR responsibility since they have to PROVE that YOU authorized the withdrawl.

It would be the same as if someone forged your signature. their error.

[PaulSweet]

It sucks big time that you got ripped off.

I'm glad you are sharing it though so we can all learn about how to deal with this kind of BS because its definately on the rise.

[Amputate Your Head]

this happened to a close friend of mine just a short while ago too.... several thousand dollars suddenly started disappearing from her account.... the bank told her that it was happening from the Hilton Hotel just 2 blocks away from where she lives.... she tried to explain to them that there is no reason she'd be staying at the Hilton when she lived so close.... so, anyway, she went over there and asked to see the transactions.... they showed her, and sure enough, someone had a perfect copy of her card and was signing her name. If the idiot working there had asked for some fuckin' ID in the first place like he's supposed to, it all could've been avoided.

Never sign your cards (like they tell you to do). All mine say on the back: "ASK FOR ID"

[TheFLY]

Some good advice in here -- I will be changing my spending habits a little...

Fuck banks...

Maybe I'll just cash all my checks for cash and be done with it... ;)

[MrBrian]

maybe they'll be reading thumbprints eventually...who knows. i give my gf my credit card all the time to go to the grocery store since i hate shopping for food, and shes never been asked for id. its pretty fucked up when a girl can sign down brian and not be asked for an id...and no, shes hot...she doesnt look like a man :D

[Ace-Ace]

Originally posted by nocostporn
no further explaination on HOW it happened? I'm sure you want an answer more than the money....

Haha...I'm sure he wouldn't mind the money either

[MikeEP]

Originally posted by Amputate Your Head
Never sign your cards (like they tell you to do). All mine say on the back: "ASK FOR ID"

Good advice Amp...i never ever sign the back of my cards. It gets annoying alway having to pull out id, but better safe then sorry.

Though writing "ask for id" on the back is something i haven't done yet. Might have to include that one.

[Amputate Your Head]

it's funny Mike, cuz everytime I use one and if they don't ask for ID, I get all over them and show them the back of the card where it says "ask for ID".... then they get this stupid look and ask for it.... lol

shouldn't ever have to do that though.... they're supposed to check IDs on the things all the time anyway.

[RaGe]

Damn, that sucks Quiet.. good luck on getting it all back soon. Be sure to let us know exactly what happened (or at least what the bank tells you) once its all done, I know I'll want to hear it..

[Theo]

Originally posted by DrinkingHard
Another good idea would be to get in touch with Equifax.

that's how i call equinox