Originally Posted by BoyAlley (Post 11452731)

What I'd say is that this module is poorly conceived, and even more poorly implemented.

I think that what happened is 1 client of theirs said hey we'll move to your software if you can make it do X, and Nats made it do X and released it to everyone else as well, perhaps without putting enough thought into it.

Look at it this way:

What percentage of "unverified" signups become real-world refunds or chargebacks? That's the REAL number everyone should be asking about.

If 99% of "unverified" signups turn into real-world chargebacks or refunds, then 1% of "unverified" signups are legitimate, and affiliates are losing 1% of that income.

While I have no data, coming from an information security and user profiling background, I can tell you I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt that this system would be ANYWHERE NEAR that number.

So if the system is 99% effective on "unverifieds", affiliates lose 1% of sales of those. What happens if it's 90% effective? Affiliates lose 10% of "unverified" sales that are actually legitimate.

That starts to add up to a LOT of money, and if there's no way for an affiliate to know they'll eventually get credit for those sales or not, they have every right to be bitchy.

What this module NEEDS to do, is take those "unverified sales", and automatically make them "verified" so that affiliates get paid out on them, after X period of time has elapsed without refund or chargeback.

THAT's what needs to happen.

This way you're saying to the affiliate: Hey we'll give you instant payout on these sales that we're comfortable with. There are a few sales that are a little questionable to us, so we're going to hold those until the regular payout date, when you would have gotten payment for them anyway.

I don't think anyone would bitch about that.

It sounds like flashcash was mostly using this system to protect themselves with their free signups program (from what I understand), but now that it can also be used by programs for paid signups as well, the ill conceived notion of this entire system becomes amplified.

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn (Post 11452222)

No, you do not get paid for unverified signups until they become verified. I didn't think there was any confusion there. If you don't like the numbers, don't use the program. We are requiring and making sure that any program that uses the feature is fully up front with you about the #s (how many are verified and how many non-verified you have). If you don't like the #s, don't use the program. They're not lying to you about it or trying to fool you. They are doing what they have to do to offer the services they offer.

Originally Posted by RawAlex (Post 11454942)

That is another part of the deal... how long does a surfer have to signup AND log in to make the signup valid? Let's say he joins up, and as he hits the join button, wifey comes into the room and he quickly surfs off to CNN. Wifey never leaves, and instead lures him off to watch a movie or take out the garbage or something. So he doesn't log on until the next time he is alone at the PC, say, 4 days later.

Was he a valid sale? Or would his failure to log on rapidly after the signup process suggest an invalid signup and therefore the webmaster doesn't get credited, even if he in factis a valid and paying member?

It would seem to me that this is a very important question!

Originally Posted by Nysus (Post 11454533)

Do unverified signups ever disappear? Or would they go into a 'not valid signup' so then at least know?

Matt

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn (Post 11455249)

No. It's signups and verified signups. "non-verified signups" would be the difference.

The total signup count will always be shown and once a signup is verified it is added into stats on the day it is verified. Nothing ever disappears.

So, you could in effect have more verified signups for a day than you do unverified.

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn (Post 11455193)

There is an unlimited timespan for logging in to verify the join. It can be 1 day, 10 days, 100 days. Once its verified its verified.

Originally Posted by SPeRMiNaToR (Post 11455303)

sounds like "legalized" shaving imho...

Originally Posted by PBucksJohn (Post 11455249)

No. It's signups and verified signups. "non-verified signups" would be the difference.

The total signup count will always be shown and once a signup is verified it is added into stats on the day it is verified. Nothing ever disappears.

So, you could in effect have more verified signups for a day than you do unverified.

Originally Posted by DarkJedi (Post 11451600)

Originally Posted by wyldblyss (Post 11455504)

And the story goes like this.....

NATS comes along and markets to the WEBMASTERS.....they know that webmasters HATE shaving...so they market to them as "shave proof" and the wembasters just can't get enough of it.

Program owners then feel the pressure to move to NATS, whether they like it or not.....

NATS feels they rule the adult industry and starts making the rules...program owner that use the software have NO CHOICE but to follow the rules...

NATS gets way too much authority....and the tide changes...not only do they have way too much authority...they demand more....and then webmasters sees sales drop....because NATS has once again decided to make changes in HOW many sales program owners can pay out...

And then you hear someone whisper in the background "be careful what you wish for, but you just may get it"

Appears their "anti-shave program" prevents shaving...but also prevents you from getting paid on sign-ups you should be paid for.

To be continued.....

Originally Posted by DarkJedi (Post 11451533)

Yesterday, you said you were going to answer what "verified signups" meant.

I don't see the answer.


What's the point of your "announcement"?
I haven't learned anything knew from it.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 11455972)

I'm missing why this thread is still a big deal?

This is a money program, like any other programs, program. Programs can't just use it, and the program has to state its being used. Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly, you wouldn't be paid on those anyway. And since the "program" has set the pay rules to pay at that point, what is the problem?

The program and NATS aren't hiding anything, you should be happy.

Originally Posted by xxxjay (Post 11456005)

Pay no attention to Dark Jedi...he is a moon cricket.

Originally Posted by TheDoc (Post 11455972)

Since this is currently being used for "FREE" signups mostly

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 11456261)

this is what happens to an industry that continues to cater to the lowest common denominator. More free porn, higher payouts, higher payouts, weekly payouts, daily payouts, INSTANT payouts!

when I started out as a free site webmaster I conducted myself as a businessman, I only dealt with other businessmen. I was paid monthly. I wasn't in business to score beer money by the end of the day.
Instant payouts?
Here's an idea, program owners, conduct your business the way that would make your grandparents proud of your ethics. Affiliates, stop acting like you're in this business until next week.

No offense to FC, they are providing a service someone thinks is necissary.
Its a sad commentary on the state of the industry that we're foolish enough to think its necissary, and even sadder that we accomodate it.

Originally Posted by interracialtoons (Post 11456292)

It's "necessary" to use spell-check.

Originally Posted by interracialtoons (Post 11456027)

Hello, you use nats and my stats are very very bad.
So bad as to hardly be believable.

I actually think my account was disabled for some reason but noone will tell me.

Originally Posted by quantum-x (Post 11456460)

You sure get your accounts disabled a lot don't you.

Originally Posted by BoyAlley (Post 11456301)

12clicks actually made some very good points in his post. While your reply is, well, stewpid. http://www.gaymainstreet.com/TheStre...isc/stupid.gif

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 11456261)

this is what happens to an industry that continues to cater to the lowest common denominator. More free porn, higher payouts, higher payouts, weekly payouts, daily payouts, INSTANT payouts!

when I started out as a free site webmaster I conducted myself as a businessman, I only dealt with other businessmen. I was paid monthly. I wasn't in business to score beer money by the end of the day.
Instant payouts?
Here's an idea, program owners, conduct your business the way that would make your grandparents proud of your ethics. Affiliates, stop acting like you're in this business until next week.

No offense to FC, they are providing a service someone thinks is necissary.
Its a sad commentary on the state of the industry that we're foolish enough to think its necissary, and even sadder that we accomodate it.

Originally Posted by interracialtoons (Post 11456508)

Repeat please...I couldn't understand you with his dick in your mouth.

Originally Posted by miss_twisted (Post 11456516)

I can see where instant payouts could be a good boost for a program just getting off the ground or to eliminate any trust issues and what better way for a webmaster to feel secure. Give them there money instantly. When you and I started in this biz there were not nearly as many companies out there to work with and even less you could trust, now there are too many however the trust still isn't there. If this module was done properly it would be a great way to eliminate the trust issue, however as it stands right now it seems to be having the opposite effect. Figure it out and I would be on board in a heartbeat.

How many times have we all heard the story about a company going out of biz and never paying their affiliates what is rightly theirs, too many, this would eliminate any chance of that with the exception of a few dollars. I agree though company's should conduct themselves in a manner their grandparents would be proud of but in this world do you really think that is ever going to happen 100%, sadly, probably not.

and dont princess me! lol ;)

Originally Posted by 12clicks (Post 11456681)

let me try to explain.

I'll bet your landlord needs spell checker too.

Originally Posted by interracialtoons (Post 11456722)

Why all the hate brother man? :1orglaugh