Zango in XBiz: they agreed to install our software - GoFuckYourself.com

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 05:53 PM

Xbiz has an interesting article concerning Zango. It seems that they contacted Xbiz to "correct" some of the misunderstanding here, and to plead total innocense. It is an impressive piece of double talk, read closely:

http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=17751

I'll start at the end, it's easier to explain:

Quote:

Bruzzese claims Zango does not in any way overwrite cookies that are tagged with affiliate ID codes.

?We deliver ads when a consumer is searching or browsing the web and likely looking for goods or services,? Bruzzese said. ?In other words, at the precise moment that advertising is beneficial both to the consumer and to the advertiser.?

What Zango fails to mention here is that their window pops AFTER the other window is open. If the same site is opened in the popup, many programs will reset the saved cookie to the affiliate code in the new window. I understand that this isn't Zango SPECIFIC goal in opening window, but it is an unintended and very profitable side effect of their actions. Because of the way some programs work, closing the popup and continuing in the original browser will invoke the cookie from the popup window when it comes time to sign up, because it is the newest cookie for that site. That creates value for the popup buyer, and eliminates the original webmaster from the transaction.

I accept that may not have been Zango's intention, but their method creates exactly this sort of situation in cases where the same site gets popped over itself.

Quote:

Zango serves ads based on a consumer?s Internet use and search activity from browsing, including keywords from the websites a consumer visits. However, it does not collect or track personally identifiable information, according to Bruzzese.

Not so, according to this test:

http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/

Quote:

Zango and Seekmo, the company?s adult advertising platform, claims that its software offering operates by popping up contextual ads on to the users? desktop who have downloaded the software, ?Fulfilling consumers? growing demand for free, sought-after online content, while automating and monetizing relationships between content providers, web publishers and advertisers of all sizes,? the company states.

This is where Zango admits to using Asterixware - you want X, we will give you X for free, all you have to do to watch that 30 second video is give us control of your computer for extended periods of time, the right to track your surfing, and the right to popup ads long after you have stopped enjoying that 30 second video. Asterixware is the ultimate bait and switch in my personal opinion, because giving away free videos wasn't the intention of the business, but rather the misleading freebie that hooks the unsuspecting fish.

Quote:

The company would not disclose how many adult industry clients it has. Zango claims to have more than 200,000 consumer downloads each day with 20 million-plus users total.

This is where their logic really starts to show. I have had ICQ on my computer for, what, 10 years I guess. It is a useful tool that I intentionally downloaded. There are many millions of people in the same boat. My install time is, well, 3000+ days, I am sure.

Zango with 20 million and 200,000 new a day is looking at a hold time of about 100 days. If a tool is that useful, why would people be deleting it? It would seem to me that a useful service would retain customers and grow, and not be a victim of such violent churn (1% per day... 100% turnover 3.65 times per year).

Quote:

However, Zango officials claim their product in no way interferes with normal surfing activity because the user consents to its download and knows what to expect.

I think that Zango officials are kidding themselves here. If they offered their product (FREE POPUP ADS ON EVERY OTHER WEBSITE!) they would get few takers. In fact, most experienced surfers have some form of popup blocker or disabler on our systems. Without tying the install to permission to view a video or play a game, they would not have a business to speak of. I would suspect that a survey of people who had Zango on their system would reveal something other than users that felt they had given knowledable consent to what effects that watching that video would have. I base that opinion on surfing google, where I have not found anyone saying how great Zango's popups are.

At the end of the day, Zango has trotted out it's standard legalese excuse list of why it's product is currently legal, and it contains more visible holes that quality swiss cheese.

Brooklywood · 10-20-2006, 05:59 PM

Thanks for posting this, Alex. You beat me to the punch.

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 06:01 PM

Thanks Steve... I think it is important to seperate out Zango's quick two stepping from the reports and end user comments that are readily available on the web, as well as the somewhat misleading or enthusiastic characterizations of the product from the Zango people.

Brooklywood · 10-20-2006, 06:07 PM

No problem. I have to impartially present both cases, as you all know, so I tried to present Zango's official statements along with valid webmaster concerns. I hope I framed the issue in the proper way. Despite my own personal feelings, I'm not allowed interject them into the article.

V_RocKs · 10-20-2006, 06:10 PM

Zango is scum.

FightThisPatent · 10-20-2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBizSteve

Despite my own personal feelings, I'm not allowed interject them into the article.

that's what blogs are for

LOL

Fight the babbling log!

_xXx_ · 10-20-2006, 06:12 PM

i've noticed theres alot of hate for zango here, this explains a fair bit to the newbies

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 06:13 PM

Steve, you did well to give Zango a chance to pretty much recite their standard excuse list, which I attempted to poke some large scale holes in. Their answers are pat, practiced, and clearly very well coached. I suspect they know that they are right up against the edge of legal (and moral) acceptability, so they have to answer the questions in the same way with the same phrasing and even the same wording to assure that they do not deviate off of the little sandbar in the legal sea called "no case law yet".

I admine them for having the guts to sit out there. I don't admire at all the companies greedy enough to pay them for traffic.

Kimo · 10-20-2006, 06:13 PM

damn cencorship in porn media

Quickdraw · 10-20-2006, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I accept that may not have been Zango's intention, but their method creates exactly this sort of situation in cases where the same site gets popped over itself.

I don't accept it, their intention is highlighted within the link you posted.

Silent affiliate code replacement without the use of popup windows.

Quote:

Not all 180 "cookie-stuffing" requires showing a duplicate window of the merchant's site. Some 180 cookie-stuffing uses hidden windows -- opened off-screen via IFRAMEs and similar methods -- to create or replace users' affiliate tracking codes without causing an extra window to be opened on the user's screen. Such an approach is implemented via instructions -- from 180's servers to 180 software on users' PCs -- of form shown below:

...................
In the course of events described in this section, there exists no notable on-screen image to be captured in a screenshot, and I therefore can provide no screenshot of this finding. Notwithstanding the lack of on-screen confirmation, my network monitoring confirms that the IFRAME at issue (definition) is rendered off-screen. My testing further confirms that the IFRAME overwrites users' cookies via the specified HTTP request to linksynergy (or, for some trigger conditions, other affiliate tracking services): I have confirmed such overwriting by observing that the IFRAME URL is requested by the user's PC, and that the user's cookies are altered accord to instructions in the corresponding HTTP response. As a result, commission flows to 180solutions without users ever receiving any on-screen indication that any commission transfer is taking place.

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 06:25 PM

Quickdraw, read it very, very carefully, ZANGO DOES NOT OVERWRITE COOKIES BY ITSELF. They render windows, and the content of those windows MAY in the normal course of web usage cause a cookie to change because of a failure in the affiiate programs to properly track individual users and browser windows.

Without that failing in the affiliate systems, no window popped (iframe or other) would have any effect on the current screen cookie.

Quickdraw · 10-20-2006, 06:29 PM

I understand that Alex, but if it was not intentional, they would not have that iframe appear off screen. At least that is how I read it.

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 06:32 PM

Perhaps they didn't do it, perhaps the person buying the click did it (this is their standard excuse, BTW, for almost everything). They sell the popup space, they do not control the popup nor do they directly profit from the content of the popup (again, statements to that effect have been put forward by Zango). They profit from the popup occuring only (as they explained it).

Brooklywood · 10-20-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimo

damn cencorship in porn media

What censorship?

Quickdraw · 10-20-2006, 06:48 PM

Yeah, supposedly they only get payed for the popups and toolbar clicks. Their business plan morphs every time they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so to speak.
Those hidden windows were a early part of their history, they -may- not do that now, but their original intent and their devious behavior is still shining through.
Another partial quote from Ben's page
http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/
If they were such good honest businessmen, I don't see why they need to do these things.

Quote:

180 practices that hinder detection exclusion from affiliate programs

180 designs its software and systems in multiple ways that make it difficult or impossible to fully study 180's activities, and to track all affiliate accounts used by 180 and its advertiser partners. These practices include the following:

1. Redirecting affiliate commissions without any on-screen display whatsoever. If 180's software showed even a small temporary message on screen (a one-second alert that "commission for your purchase will go to 180solutions"), affiliate merchants and interested users would far more easily be able to identify 180's behavior.

2. Using multiple affiliate accounts under different names, and allowing 180 advertisers to add their own affiliate codes to 180's system. In my examination of 180 configuration files, I can see that 180 currently causes users' computers to invoke at least 13 distinct LinkShare accounts and at least 71 distinct Commission Junction accounts (25 for bfast and 46 for qksrv). I gather that some of these affiliate accounts are held by 180 advertisers, rather than by 180 itself; but in as much as all the codes are served through 180 software, via methods including those described above, they all pose the same problem for merchants: Because 180 software uses so many affiliate codes, not all labeled with 180's corporate name, merchants have no easy way to block all affiliate traffic coming from or through 180. (Complaints about multiple 180 accounts: 1, 2, 3, 4)

3. Redirecting affiliate traffic through multiple domains. The examples shown above include direct bfast and linksynergy links in 180 server instructions to 180 software as installed on users' PCs. But my testing shows that 180 affiliate code traffic often passes through one or more redirect servers. One particularly prevalent such server is shoptoday.us, though I have found traffic passing through dozens of other servers. (Details available on request.) Again, 180 advertisers (rather than 180 itself) may be responsible for some or many of the redirections, but from the perspective of merchants, the problem is identical whether initiated by 180 itself or by 180 advertisers.
4. Using "private registrations" (such as Network Solutions Private Registrations) to shield Whois data, to avoid disclosing the true registrant of the redirect domains described in #3. See screenshot. .......

minusonebit · 10-20-2006, 06:54 PM

More Zango Bullshit. Why hasnt this company had its corporate offices blown up yet?

bknoob · 10-20-2006, 06:59 PM

But what do you call this?

Isn't this deceptive?

Hotrocket · 10-20-2006, 06:59 PM

Total and complete BS ..anybody that reads what they said can see what liars and spin doctors they are...

Huggles · 10-20-2006, 07:04 PM

Zango and the people who support and help spread them, are shit.

seeric · 10-20-2006, 07:05 PM

"Because of the way some programs work, closing the popup and continuing in the original browser will invoke the cookie from the popup window when it comes time to sign up, because it is the newest cookie for that site. That creates value for the popup buyer, and eliminates the original webmaster from the transaction."

-raw alex

and therein lies the issue. shit aint right.

Missie · 10-20-2006, 07:05 PM

You may want to see this. Although this concentrates on mainstream, don't fool yourself about the possibilities in porn and other adult avenues. I'll be waiting to see more on that as well.

http://affiliatefairplay.com/newsblo...alert/#more-34

Missie

GonZo · 10-20-2006, 07:06 PM

Xbiz you forgot to write that Lars was forced.

FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!

SureFire · 10-20-2006, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

Xbiz you forgot to write that Lars was forced.

FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!!

ditto

jayeff · 10-20-2006, 07:14 PM

It probably wouldn't hurt to remember that Zango's comments are likely not intended to convince anyone of anything: they are after all not stupid people and are well aware how unlikely it is that any of XBiz' readership will pay the slightest attention to their spin.

It is far more likely that their house counsel advised them to place such a piece so as not to leave the original perspective unchallenged.

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 07:18 PM

jayeff, agreed, but based on churn alone, Zango stuck their foot in it by admitting that their customer retention levels are so low that they lose their customer base more than three and a half times every year. They burn through 73 million users a year, according to their numbers, but have an install base of only 20 million.

That by itself is the clearest indication to me that the public isn't "informed", nor is the Zango product net beneficial to those users.

gleem · 10-20-2006, 07:49 PM

They would go away if webmasters weren't so quick to cut corners.. shortsighted webmasters in THIS industry, take a few pennies to install viscous software on surfers pooters.

"cause I make $50 a day with them and can't get the surfers to buy anything else."

jayeff · 10-20-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

jayeff, agreed, but based on churn alone, Zango stuck their foot in it by admitting that their customer retention levels are so low that they lose their customer base more than three and a half times every year. They burn through 73 million users a year, according to their numbers, but have an install base of only 20 million.

That by itself is the clearest indication to me that the public isn't "informed", nor is the Zango product net beneficial to those users.

I don't disagree with you, but I'm not sure what your point is. It would also be useful to distinguish between "customers" as in people installing their scumware and the trash who do business with them to divert surfers away from their intended destinations.

Steve will confirm if he wishes that XBiz asked me if I had any questions for Zango. I didn't because frankly they are not the problem: just a symptom of it. I replied to him something along the lines that yesterday it was someone else and tomorrow it will be someone else again. That will not change so long as we tolerate sponsors who have no compunction in working even against the interests of their own affiliates. It will not change so long as webmasters who work against the long-term interest of the whole industry are not shunned by everyone else.

I don't approve of Zango by any means, but they only provide a tool. Without the scum who promote that tool and thieves willing to use it, Zango would not exist.

Tempest · 10-20-2006, 08:03 PM

What's interesting is that right in the code that determines if they should be poping something up, they could add a couple more lines of code IN THEIR SLEEP to not pop the same domain site if it's open.

Since it's so easy a 1st year computer programmer could do it, it's clear why they don't and also clear that all the programs pushing it and "in error" targeting their own sites are clearly out to screw their affiliates.

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 08:11 PM

Jayeff,if nobody was buying the clicks, I am sure that Zango itself would find ways to derive income, potentially by joining affiliate programs. There are some indications that this has happened in the past, and may be ongoing.

That they resell the displays rather than displaying themselves is immaterial. Their entire basis of business is a willing and informed choice by a consumer to install their software, which is a concept that I debate. Further, with the number of indications that Zango may be difficult to totally remove from a system, why would they feel the need to reinstall themselves automatically after a removal is attempted?

Again, indications that the root of their business isn't anywhere near as snow white as they try to claim.

As for companies like AFF/ Cams and Sexsearch, well... you can imagine my opinion.

Alex

SmokeyTheBear · 10-20-2006, 08:17 PM

im a little concerned that xbiz gave them a platform to spew that filth... they should have stipulated they werent going to print bullcrap

or added things to the article to clarify.. like when they said "zango doesnt overwrite cookies" xbiz should have said . " even though there is documented video of zango facilitating the practise of cookie theft " and "we installed hthe software and found this to be a lie "
when they said it doesnt interfere with surfing they should have added " even though we couldnt find one satisfied zango user , only tons and tons and tons of reports of disatisfied users"

Argoz · 10-20-2006, 08:24 PM

Zango....

lazycash · 10-20-2006, 08:52 PM

Nice post, glad you explained the holes in their double talk. I hate seeing Zango getting all this publicity, even if its partially negative, but I guess thats part of the price of trying to expose them to the webmaster community.

will76 · 10-20-2006, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Quickdraw, read it very, very carefully, ZANGO DOES NOT OVERWRITE COOKIES BY ITSELF. They render windows, and the content of those windows MAY in the normal course of web usage cause a cookie to change because of a failure in the affiiate programs to properly track individual users and browser windows.

Without that failing in the affiliate systems, no window popped (iframe or other) would have any effect on the current screen cookie.

Yeap and I didn't kill the person, I just pulled the trigger and the bullet killed the person. *Most* people are smart enough to look past the semantics of the words and understand the true meaning of what is happening.

will76 · 10-20-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

It probably wouldn't hurt to remember that Zango's comments are likely not intended to convince anyone of anything: they are after all not stupid people and are well aware how unlikely it is that any of XBiz' readership will pay the slightest attention to their spin.

It is far more likely that their house counsel advised them to place such a piece so as not to leave the original perspective unchallenged.

bingo, that wasn't for us, it was for the people who haven't following this close that will now say " ah i knew there was two sides to every story".

will76 · 10-20-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XBizSteve

No problem. I have to impartially present both cases, as you all know, so I tried to present Zango's official statements along with valid webmaster concerns. I hope I framed the issue in the proper way. Despite my own personal feelings, I'm not allowed interject them into the article.

Steve, If you guys are interested I would love to comment on this and do an interview for you guys from the perspective of an advertiser. We have heard about this issue from xbiz inregards to AFF trying to justify doing it (sponsors perspective) now we are hearing about it from you guys from the company who is causing it to happen, will we hear anything from the advertisers who it is happening to???
Only seems logical if you want to give it balanced coverage.

SomeCreep · 10-20-2006, 10:36 PM

Zango steals sales. If affiliates could actually somehow see the percentage of sales being stolen, they'd be furious. But instead, their overall ratios fluctuate slightly and they dismiss it as a slow, maybe even normal period.

Dagwolf · 10-20-2006, 10:38 PM

Grrrrrrrrrrrr

RawAlex · 10-20-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

Yeap and I didn't kill the person, I just pulled the trigger and the bullet killed the person. *Most* people are smart enough to look past the semantics of the words and understand the true meaning of what is happening.

Will, I agree with you, but from a purely technical and legal standpoint, Zango is attempting to say they are only selling guns and bullets and teaching people to aim, but not actually pulling the trigger. It is a significant difference, at least from a legal standpoint - and it appears that Zango is staking their entire business on the legal difference between the two.

In the same manner that GFY didn't take advertising or a skin from Guba, it would be nice to see GFY step away from accepting ad money from Sexsearch and maybe even AFF until they are clearer on things like scumware and asterixware.

will76 · 10-20-2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

im a little concerned that xbiz gave them a platform to spew that filth... they should have stipulated they werent going to print bullcrap

or added things to the article to clarify.. like when they said "zango doesnt overwrite cookies" xbiz should have said . " even though there is documented video of zango facilitating the practise of cookie theft " and "we installed hthe software and found this to be a lie "
when they said it doesnt interfere with surfing they should have added " even though we couldnt find one satisfied zango user , only tons and tons and tons of reports of disatisfied users"

I spoke to steve, xbiz is going to work something out to give me a platform to speak from.

Thanks Steve, for letting the people who are affected the most by this be heard.

will76 · 10-20-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Will, I agree with you, but from a purely technical and legal standpoint, Zango is attempting to say they are only selling guns and bullets and teaching people to aim, but not actually pulling the trigger. It is a significant difference, at least from a legal standpoint - and it appears that Zango is staking their entire business on the legal difference between the two.

In the same manner that GFY didn't take advertising or a skin from Guba, it would be nice to see GFY step away from accepting ad money from Sexsearch and maybe even AFF until they are clearer on things like scumware and asterixware.

This is a little different. Guns have legit, legal purposes. If guns were only used for armed robbery and illegal activites then yes the gun makers should be held liabel for providing the means for people to do this. They would be facilitating it.

Their software (while it may not be illegal yet) has no legitimate purpose. They take traffic from someone else in 99.9999% of the time. They make their money from their "advertisers" buying the stolen traffic. The more their advertisers make the more they can make from the traffic. They allow their advertisers to bid on their own search terms, they know this is happening and is a problem but they will continue to deny it because it makes them more money by allowing it. Not only from a shaving point, but look at the bid war beteen sex search and aff. If Aff couldn't buy their own keywords i bet those keywords would be selling for a lot less. But since they let companies by their own keywords look at how much more they can make off of them by pitting companies against each other.

will76 · 10-20-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

Zango steals sales. If affiliates could actually somehow see the percentage of sales being stolen, they'd be furious. But instead, their overall ratios fluctuate slightly and they dismiss it as a slow, maybe even normal period.

Unfortunetly it is more popular for them to blame it on the time of year or the weather as the cause of their sales being down instead of them realizing it could be shit like this that is slowly cutting into their profit.

Missie · 10-21-2006, 12:03 AM

The last time I complained about severe drop in conversions, zango was involved. Zango affiliate was kicked out, sales magically came back. Again this month, conversions are much worse than they were back then. With all the scumware applications mentioned in these threads, I'm sure scumbags found other avenues to steal sales. Zango is only a needle in a hay stack. Just so happens to be the program du jour because most people have heard of 180solutions, so zango is fairly well known, as most of the other scumware programs are unknown by the majority.

Missie

will76 · 10-21-2006, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missie

The last time I complained about severe drop in conversions, zango was involved. Zango affiliate was kicked out, sales magically came back. Again this month, conversions are much worse than they were back then. With all the scumware applications mentioned in these threads, I'm sure scumbags found other avenues to steal sales. Zango is only a needle in a hay stack. Just so happens to be the program du jour because most people have heard of 180solutions, so zango is fairly well known, as most of the other scumware programs are unknown by the majority.

Missie

Hey what are some of the other spyware companies that target adult as well?

RawAlex · 10-21-2006, 10:00 AM

Missie, I think that Zango happens to have the numbers in their favor. How they have set their systems up and their traffic flows means they are able to maintain a fairly high number of active installs, even with the overwhelming churn and 365% customer loss per year.

Basically, with 20 million people "enjoying" their software, they can make a pretty big dent in sales, especially if they are hitting majoritly into the english marketplaces, which is where most of us are trying to sell.

What other major toolbar players are hitting adult?

Mike AI · 10-21-2006, 10:05 AM

Alex, I love when you get worked up!!

Keep up the good fight.

Missie · 10-21-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Missie, I think that Zango happens to have the numbers in their favor. How they have set their systems up and their traffic flows means they are able to maintain a fairly high number of active installs, even with the overwhelming churn and 365% customer loss per year.

Basically, with 20 million people "enjoying" their software, they can make a pretty big dent in sales, especially if they are hitting majoritly into the english marketplaces, which is where most of us are trying to sell.

What other major toolbar players are hitting adult?

That's exactly my point Alex. Zango doesn't always get installed on its own. Many times it's bundled with other scumware downloads of which the first illegal install is a totally different application, zango is just included in the bundle along with many others. When these shady companies pay per install, many scumbag webmasters will combine several of them in the same download so they make quite a bit more that way. So rather than making just $0.40 with zango, they could be earning $x.xx or even $xx.xx per install.

Zango probably is the most known scumware program in both adult and mainstream. 180Solutions has been in the spotlight many times over the years, not many have never heard of them or never got hit with one of their scumware applications (n/case or 180SearchAssistant).

Pretty much the only ways to have heard of some of the others is 1) if you got hit with it, 2) if you follow spyware talks, 3) If you happened to have read about it in some forum, or 4) someone told you about it

I'm not going to post any more names of scumware programs. Too many idiots here are already proud of infecting computers with zango and brag about it (someone shoot them!!!) so I'm not going to give them any ideas or where/how to get more of these applications.

Missie

RawAlex · 10-21-2006, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike AI

Alex, I love when you get worked up!!

Keep up the good fight.

I only get worked up about the good stuff now... for the rest, there is spamarrest and late night TV

Alex

RawAlex · 10-21-2006, 12:03 PM

Sorry, I can't resist... this is from the ad-tech or whatever show website, a nice description of what Zango does...

Quote:

zango.com
A pioneer of what we call the Content Economy, Zango, an online media company, fulfills millions of consumers’ growing demand for free, sought-after online videos, games, music, tools and utilities, giving those consumers greater choice and control over when, where, and how they access that content. Zango’s vision enables content creators to monetize and distribute their content, provides publishers access to valuable and unique content as well as a way to make money from their web traffic, and delivers to advertisers industry-leading ROI through time-shifted ad delivery by engaging more than 20 million consumers precisely when they are most likely to make a purchasing decision. Committed to safe and ethical practices, Zango welcomes more than 200,000 new opt-in consumers every day.

I like the "time-shifted ad delivery by engaging more than 20 million consumers precisely when they are most likely to make a purchasing decision" - in other words, we will jump in just as a consumer heads towards a pay or purchase website and either offer another alternative (covering most of the screen) or the same site with a different tracking code or with the code disabled to retain highest possible earnings.

It is so funny to read the flowers and sunshine way they describe their asterixware.

scottybuzz · 10-21-2006, 12:08 PM

zango zango zango.

Missie · 10-21-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Sorry, I can't resist... this is from the ad-tech or whatever show website, a nice description of what Zango does...

I like the "time-shifted ad delivery by engaging more than 20 million consumers precisely when they are most likely to make a purchasing decision" - in other words, we will jump in just as a consumer heads towards a pay or purchase website and either offer another alternative (covering most of the screen) or the same site with a different tracking code or with the code disabled to retain highest possible earnings.

It is so funny to read the flowers and sunshine way they describe their asterixware.

Kellie and Ben should set up a booth right across from them and show videos of their own. :D

Missie

10-20-2006, 05:59 PM	#2
Brooklywood Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 380	Thanks for posting this, Alex. You beat me to the punch. __________________ Steve J. Managing Editor, AVN www.avn.com ICQ: 263271084 AIM: AVNSteveJ

10-20-2006, 06:07 PM	#4
Brooklywood Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: SoCal Posts: 380	No problem. I have to impartially present both cases, as you all know, so I tried to present Zango's official statements along with valid webmaster concerns. I hope I framed the issue in the proper way. Despite my own personal feelings, I'm not allowed interject them into the article. __________________ Steve J. Managing Editor, AVN www.avn.com ICQ: 263271084 AIM: AVNSteveJ

10-20-2006, 06:13 PM	#9
Kimo ... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maryland ICQ:87038677 Posts: 11,542	damn cencorship in porn media __________________ ...

10-20-2006, 06:59 PM	#17
bknoob Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,610	But what do you call this? Isn't this deceptive? Last edited by bknoob; 10-20-2006 at 07:00 PM..

10-20-2006, 07:04 PM	#19
Huggles GFY'S #1 retard Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Kelowna Posts: 11,121	Zango and the people who support and help spread them, are shit. __________________ https://3-veo.com/ The best AI video maker portal.

10-20-2006, 06:01 PM	#3
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Thanks Steve... I think it is important to seperate out Zango's quick two stepping from the reports and end user comments that are readily available on the web, as well as the somewhat misleading or enthusiastic characterizations of the product from the Zango people.

10-20-2006, 06:10 PM	#5
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,409	Zango is scum.

10-20-2006, 06:12 PM	#7
_xXx_ Registered User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 41	i've noticed theres alot of hate for zango here, this explains a fair bit to the newbies

10-20-2006, 06:25 PM	#11
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Quickdraw, read it very, very carefully, ZANGO DOES NOT OVERWRITE COOKIES BY ITSELF. They render windows, and the content of those windows MAY in the normal course of web usage cause a cookie to change because of a failure in the affiiate programs to properly track individual users and browser windows. Without that failing in the affiliate systems, no window popped (iframe or other) would have any effect on the current screen cookie.

10-20-2006, 06:29 PM	#12
Quickdraw Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: → → → Posts: 1,717	I understand that Alex, but if it was not intentional, they would not have that iframe appear off screen. At least that is how I read it.

10-20-2006, 06:32 PM	#13
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Perhaps they didn't do it, perhaps the person buying the click did it (this is their standard excuse, BTW, for almost everything). They sell the popup space, they do not control the popup nor do they directly profit from the content of the popup (again, statements to that effect have been put forward by Zango). They profit from the popup occuring only (as they explained it).

10-20-2006, 06:54 PM	#16
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	More Zango Bullshit. Why hasnt this company had its corporate offices blown up yet?

10-20-2006, 06:59 PM	#18
Hotrocket Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,327	Total and complete BS ..anybody that reads what they said can see what liars and spin doctors they are...

10-20-2006, 07:05 PM	#20
seeric .......... Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: .......... Posts: 41,917	"Because of the way some programs work, closing the popup and continuing in the original browser will invoke the cookie from the popup window when it comes time to sign up, because it is the newest cookie for that site. That creates value for the popup buyer, and eliminates the original webmaster from the transaction." -raw alex and therein lies the issue. shit aint right.

10-20-2006, 07:05 PM	#21
Missie Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 372	You may want to see this. Although this concentrates on mainstream, don't fool yourself about the possibilities in porn and other adult avenues. I'll be waiting to see more on that as well. http://affiliatefairplay.com/newsblo...alert/#more-34 Missie __________________ Looking for a clean sponsor that won't steal from you?check them out here!

10-20-2006, 07:06 PM	#22
GonZo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Atlanta,Ga. Posts: 3,180	Xbiz you forgot to write that Lars was forced. FREE LEGENDARY LARS!!! __________________ Assclown Bob Rice wants to BANG your credit card! "I am putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." All the information above is my personal opinion.

10-20-2006, 07:14 PM	#24
jayeff Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 2,944	It probably wouldn't hurt to remember that Zango's comments are likely not intended to convince anyone of anything: they are after all not stupid people and are well aware how unlikely it is that any of XBiz' readership will pay the slightest attention to their spin. It is far more likely that their house counsel advised them to place such a piece so as not to leave the original perspective unchallenged.

10-20-2006, 07:18 PM	#25
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	jayeff, agreed, but based on churn alone, Zango stuck their foot in it by admitting that their customer retention levels are so low that they lose their customer base more than three and a half times every year. They burn through 73 million users a year, according to their numbers, but have an install base of only 20 million. That by itself is the clearest indication to me that the public isn't "informed", nor is the Zango product net beneficial to those users.

10-20-2006, 07:49 PM	#26
gleem Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sunny Land Posts: 5,593	They would go away if webmasters weren't so quick to cut corners.. shortsighted webmasters in THIS industry, take a few pennies to install viscous software on surfers pooters. "cause I make $50 a day with them and can't get the surfers to buy anything else." __________________ Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

10-20-2006, 08:03 PM	#28
Tempest Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: West Coast, Canada. Posts: 10,217	What's interesting is that right in the code that determines if they should be poping something up, they could add a couple more lines of code IN THEIR SLEEP to not pop the same domain site if it's open. Since it's so easy a 1st year computer programmer could do it, it's clear why they don't and also clear that all the programs pushing it and "in error" targeting their own sites are clearly out to screw their affiliates.

10-20-2006, 08:11 PM	#29
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Jayeff,if nobody was buying the clicks, I am sure that Zango itself would find ways to derive income, potentially by joining affiliate programs. There are some indications that this has happened in the past, and may be ongoing. That they resell the displays rather than displaying themselves is immaterial. Their entire basis of business is a willing and informed choice by a consumer to install their software, which is a concept that I debate. Further, with the number of indications that Zango may be difficult to totally remove from a system, why would they feel the need to reinstall themselves automatically after a removal is attempted? Again, indications that the root of their business isn't anywhere near as snow white as they try to claim. As for companies like AFF/ Cams and Sexsearch, well... you can imagine my opinion. Alex

10-20-2006, 08:17 PM	#30
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	im a little concerned that xbiz gave them a platform to spew that filth... they should have stipulated they werent going to print bullcrap or added things to the article to clarify.. like when they said "zango doesnt overwrite cookies" xbiz should have said . " even though there is documented video of zango facilitating the practise of cookie theft " and "we installed hthe software and found this to be a lie " when they said it doesnt interfere with surfing they should have added " even though we couldnt find one satisfied zango user , only tons and tons and tons of reports of disatisfied users" __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com Last edited by SmokeyTheBear; 10-20-2006 at 08:18 PM..

10-20-2006, 08:24 PM	#31
Argoz Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Qc Posts: 3,006	Zango....

10-20-2006, 08:52 PM	#32
lazycash Troll Patrol Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Local Socal Posts: 15,214	Nice post, glad you explained the holes in their double talk. I hate seeing Zango getting all this publicity, even if its partially negative, but I guess thats part of the price of trying to expose them to the webmaster community. __________________ "WTF, on google you can find the answer to every question in human history, EXCEPT how to convert cams.. Its crazy..." VenusBlogger

10-20-2006, 10:36 PM	#36
SomeCreep :glugglug Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Wild Things Are Posts: 26,118	Zango steals sales. If affiliates could actually somehow see the percentage of sales being stolen, they'd be furious. But instead, their overall ratios fluctuate slightly and they dismiss it as a slow, maybe even normal period. __________________ Webair Hosting I use and recommend Webair for hosting.

10-20-2006, 10:38 PM	#37
Dagwolf President of Canada Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leaving Hell, Entering Limbo Posts: 23,141	Grrrrrrrrrrrr __________________ Sleep well, and dream of large women.

10-21-2006, 12:03 AM	#42
Missie Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 372	The last time I complained about severe drop in conversions, zango was involved. Zango affiliate was kicked out, sales magically came back. Again this month, conversions are much worse than they were back then. With all the scumware applications mentioned in these threads, I'm sure scumbags found other avenues to steal sales. Zango is only a needle in a hay stack. Just so happens to be the program du jour because most people have heard of 180solutions, so zango is fairly well known, as most of the other scumware programs are unknown by the majority. Missie __________________ Looking for a clean sponsor that won't steal from you?check them out here!

10-21-2006, 10:00 AM	#44
RawAlex So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a house. Posts: 9,465	Missie, I think that Zango happens to have the numbers in their favor. How they have set their systems up and their traffic flows means they are able to maintain a fairly high number of active installs, even with the overwhelming churn and 365% customer loss per year. Basically, with 20 million people "enjoying" their software, they can make a pretty big dent in sales, especially if they are hitting majoritly into the english marketplaces, which is where most of us are trying to sell. What other major toolbar players are hitting adult?

10-21-2006, 10:05 AM	#45
Mike AI Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Elysian Fields Posts: 3,624	Alex, I love when you get worked up!! Keep up the good fight. __________________ Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!

10-21-2006, 12:08 PM	#49
scottybuzz Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2006 Location: NY Posts: 14,800	zango zango zango. __________________ $$$$$ MAKE HUGE MONEY IN CAMS - CLICK HERE $$$$$