Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Well we lost over 1000 people in Katrina and we pretty much ignored it.

Originally Posted by Halcyon

As MLK said, ?Wars are poor chisels to carve out a peaceful future.?

Originally Posted by Halcyon

Thoughts On The Anniversary of 9/11

(NOTE: These are thoughts about the post-9/11 world, NOT about the lives that day. I respect the emotions surrounding the event, but want to share a different stance)

There have always been wars.
There has always been treachery and corruption.

The law of nature is that every living thing must strive CONSTANTLY to stay alive. Death and violence is the setting in which all life takes place.

It is hard, but we need to accept that.

And then we need to make reasonable efforts to stay safe, alive, and out of the path of violence.
But do not start believing that it is possible to create a world free of risk.
And CERTAINLY do not start to believe that you can use force to try to stop violence long-term.

As MLK said, ?Wars are poor chisels to carve out a peaceful future.?

One man?s terrorism is another man?s freedom fighting. And since I can never understand what it would be like to see my brother killed at 12 in Somalia or my Father shot in Iraq, I can do little more than theorize about the personal perspectives of America?s ?enemies.?

But I know of no country righteous enough to declare their murder to be fair, and another?s? to be unfair.

In fact, that attitude only ensures that fighting will never cease.

So you can choose to live in a state of constant fear?

Or you can re-calibrate your world view, accept that there are always risks, and then try to enjoy the Now as much as possible.

To live in fear is to trade your present for a worst-case scenario of the future.
Think about that.
What reasonable things can you do to avoid violence?
Do those things and then turn off FOX News.
We are in no more danger than we ever have been.
That is to say, we are ALWAYS in danger.
So re-adjust baseline, and then get back to living.

Living, loving, laughing, remembering, and mourning.

Originally Posted by marketsmart

i think you have missed the boat, no disrespect, but here's why... agreed, you must have probably cause, but probable cause is a fantasy.. if you were drug dealer and i had an illegal wiretap on you and i heard you talking about selling drugs on said illegal wiretap... if i (the govt) really wanted to bust you, dont you think it would be a lot easier to get probable cause? let me answer that for you, the answer is yes... the issue i have is that the govt is using the PA and other national security protocals to violate many constitutional rights.. and is this effort to protect us from terrorism? no, its so that the govt can data mine our private lives in an effort to control how we think and feel.. you may think that this is all tin foil fodder, but let me know how you feel in the next 5-10 years when your civil liberties have been eroded to an uncomfortable state.. a state, where you actually realize how much freedom you have lost... at that point it will be too late...

let me give you a real world example... gas is lets say $2.00 a gallon.. in a few weeks time, it rises to $3.00 a gallon... you are outraged as well as many others... gas then goes down to $2.25 a few weeks later... you are happy... why, becauce gas is cheaper... well its not cheaper than it was 6 weeks ago.. but you forget about that becuase its better than it was...

get my point? well you should becuase it just happened to you over the last 18 months... dont belive me? go look online for the average gas price 18 months ago...

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

You missed the part above where I said they aren't throwing a bunch of people in jail using the PA.

The Patriot Act is a red herring many are using to make their point like you are but the problem is it's a red herring and doesn't hold any water for your argument.

I'll ask this again like I did on page one of this thread.

Provide one link to anything that shows the Patriot Act was used to violiate anyones rights !

You can't because it hasn't happen yet.

Originally Posted by marketsmart

I am talking about, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Sr., Bill Clinton, and George Bush Jr..... all of them.. it started in the Reagan era in terms of Bush and the alternative agenda... Reagan was a puppet... Geaorge had more power than any other president in a long time... Bill Clinton another puppet... Jr. cant tie his shoelaces without Sr. etc approval..

yes, it sounds crazy but go do some research and u will see the parralells...

Originally Posted by spunkmaster

Actually I'm impressed because my answer would be almost the same except that I would have added Carter.

Carter is so fucking stupid he makes Bush Jr. comes off as a genius.