pocketkangaroo

Finding the airplane parts, the human bodies that were on the plane, the black boxes, all the eyewitnesses who saw a commercial plane, and all the workers who helped remove the wreckage is 0 proof?

pocketkangaroo

Here is a good read for you guys:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...e/1227842.html

It goes into all the conspiracy theories, including the Pentagon. They have guys who were on the scene who removed body parts, recovered the black box, and even held part of the plane and uniforms of flight attendants in their hands. Did they all make this up?

NickPapageorgio

The funny thing is, both sides of this argument are fueling this discussion with what they heard.

Unless any of you were there when the plane/missile/bus/shopping cart hit the building, you should shut up.

Unless you personally counted how many bodies were or were not removed, you should shut up.

Unless you helped carry out the plane wreckage that did or did not exist, you should shut up.

If your argument is based on internet sites, television, newspaper or media in any fashion, you should shut up.

While it is not wrong to question what is presented as "fact" by the government and media, it is wrong to base an entire argument on heresy and media coverage.

Fact is, none of you know what really happened. You may think you do cause you read some website or you saw some shit on discovery channel, but none of you were there.

The people who call you idiot because you question the original story presented to you are sheep who can't fathom that they may be wrong.

The people who are calling it a conspiracy will use any little piece of evidence, real or fabricated, to further their argument.

You're both morons, please kill yourself.

I leave you with a quote from Chris Rock of all people:
"If you make a decision,based on what you believe, before you know the facts, you are an idiot."

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Quagmire

Re-read what I posted. I am not saying anything. But the say that its not even possible is about as stupid as a lot of the crazy conspiracy theories. To think that the US government isn't capable of killing off 60 of its citizens is stupid. the ends always justify the means when it comes to power.

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Dirty F

Isnt it amazing how they keep saying 0 proof and simply ignore everything you just mentioned. All the eyewitnesses, body parts, black boxes etc. They just ignore it and keep on screaming nooooo pprrrooof. Bunch of idiots.

Scootermuze

Forget PM as a reliable source...

Benjamin Chertoff was the "senior researcher" at Popular Mechanics who was behind the article.. He is a cousin of Michael Chertoff, the new Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security. And his little article is so full of holes that it's amazing that they even published it..

Here's an interview with a Popular Mechanics rep about the article.. He did a bit of backpeddling all of a sudden...

Lots of subscribers to PM have said that it has become a govt' propoganda machine...

Scootermuze

All the eyewitnesses? What did they say they saw? They said missle, they said small plane, they said jet liner.. Had it been a 757, nobody would have said small plane... nobody would have said missile... A 757 is a BIG PLANE that would be a bit hard to mistake for a small one... even taking into acount the, 'witness psychology' factors.
Nobody said what they, "Heard". If a 757 was that low there'd be people freaking out at the noise from a plane that size.. but one 'witness' said it sounded like a missile.. I've heard missiles fly by at a relatively close distance and they don't hold a candle to the sound of a 757.. Which by the way would have drawn people's attention from alllll around.. not just a few conflicting stories..

Body parts? Yep.. lots of em.. but guess what.. there were people working in the building .. lots and lots of people..


As for the black boxes.. The black boxes of Flight 77 were allegedly found on September 14th, but yielded "nothing useful" according to FBI director Robert Mueller
Nothing useful? How convenient..

Just release the tapes from the Citgo station and the should tell the whole story.. So why don't they?

Dirty F

Ok, youre totally completely right. Lets forget about the body parts, dna that matched the passengers, big pieces of the plane that were planted there after the missile hit the building. Lets forget about the black boxes and the INDEED many eyewitnesses who saw it happen. These are all small details and obviously fake and based on air.

So ignore on all that and now give me an answer to something i asked in the first post of this thread 3 pages ago. Im still waiting.

Where did the plane and its passengers go if it was a missile that hit the Pentagon.

Linkster

Since Im not much into these types of discussions since its impossible to prove anything one way or the other - the only thing I can contribute is that the idea that the US government would not do something like the conspiricy theorists propose is totally wrong:
Here is a link to a declassified document from the 1960s that portrays exactly what lengths the US agencies would go to - especially interesting is the attachment with plans:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20...northwoods.pdf

And please - Im not taking either side - just providing real information

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bushwacker

Nice stuff linkster.....makes u think, the gov. will DO what if feels necesarry to carry out it's agenda.

baddog

Of course that is what I am playing, but tell me, how do you know that flight ever existed?

Dollarmansteve

Ya, But Dylan Avery - a 20-something loser living in his mom's basement from upstate New York - is the be all and end all source of 9/11 information, right... cause he made a really snazzy internet movie?

yeah.. Im the sheep.

Carry on.

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Dollarmansteve

I offer $1000 to anyone who proves the following:

1) Boeing flight 77 did not exist
or
2) The passengers on flight 77 did not exist
or
3) The flight and passengers existed, but were diverted somewhere and shotdown

and

4) The eyewitnesses who reported seeing a 757:
a) do not exist or
b) were paid / threatened by the goverment to lie and say they saw a 757

and

5) the air traffic controllers
a) do not exist or
b) were paid / threatened by the goverment to lie and say they saw a 757

and

6) How the plane wreckage at the Pentagon scene, if not from flight 77, got there

so that means -

a) identify the make and model of the plane / missile that hit the pentagon (which should be easy because there was so much debris)

OR

b) explain how the 'fake' wreckage was transported to the scene and planted to make it look like a plane hit.

Should be easy money the way most of you talk so matter-of-fact about how a plane didnt hit the pentagon - just simply prove all of the things above, which is necessary in order to support a claim that flies in the face of all availalbe evidence.

let's go geniuses - no name calling, no nonsense, no theories/hypotheses - just proof.

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NickPapageorgio

Page 9, Paragraph 6 is pretty interesting reading.

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Scootermuze

It appears that flight 77 didn't leave the ground that day..



Now before people start saying, "Nice photoshop".. go here and see for yourself..

Scootermuze

I've said nothing about Avery.. Just replying to your post about the PM reference.. which isn't a very good one considering, "the source" ..

carry on..

minusonebit

They dont know WHAT they saw. Your average citizen saw a blob hit a building. They'll belive it was Santa Claus if you want them to.

elitegirls

franck getting into thin air.. hahaha wake up you sheep!

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Dirty F

You fucking moron...still didnt learn from your previous posts?

Let me see:

1st time you said i dissapeared i was out having lobster.
The 2nd time i dissapeared according to you because i couldnt handle all your really smart posts i was out getting drunk.

This is the 3rd time you say i dissapeared. Could it be that i was eating and watching televsion? What do you think?

A: I have a life outside gfy.
B: You are sooo fucking smart and your posts are so amazing that im too afraid to open this and that other thread?

Tell me, which one, a or b?

Youre such a pathetic, annoying, low iqed moron. Im amazed your mommy lets you play with the internets alone.

Alky

There is no proof on either side... your only proof is what the government tells you.

As to your "explain why they had planes hit the WTC and then controlled demolitions" question... the wtc has been bombed before, they never fell. is it possible that completely bringing the buildings down would spark enough rage in the american people that we would say it's okay to go to war? It's a lot easier to say the buildings fell after 2 planes (+ demolitions) rather then just a bombing which has happened before.

Not that I believe any of this... just hypothetical.

Scootermuze

See departure schedule above..


Kelly Knowles from an Arlington apartment two miles away saw two planes moving toward the Pentagon, one veering away as the other crashed.

Tom Seibert, in the Pentagon, listened to "what sounded like a missile" followed by a "loud boom.

Lon Rains Editor, Space News, was driving up Interstate 395 from Springfield to downtown Washington. I heard a very loud, quick whooshing sound that began behind me and stopped suddenly in front of me and to my left.
In fractions of a second I heard the impact and an explosion. The next thing
I saw was the fireball. I was convinced it was a missile. It came in so fast
it sounded nothing like an airplane.

Another witness hearing the loud sound and seeing the jet liner and assuming that sound source and object sited are one and the same. But note that he saw an airliner and that it was 200 yards above the ground, not 20 feet.

- I could go on -


"The radar installation near Parkersburg, W.Va., was built with only secondary radar -- called 'beacon-only' radar. That left the controllers monitoring Flight 77 at the Indianapolis center blind when the hijackers apparently
switched off the aircraft's transponder." >>

...If it was in fact flt 77...

Parts that were found were from one engine.. why not 2? The wheels and engine parts found were quite similar to that of a Global Hawk.. Nothing in the way of wreckage points to a 757..
I'm not saying nothing hit the place.. just not a 757...



Not out to try to win your money... I just enjoy a good debate now and then..

I don't know what hit it.. We don't know what hit it.. I'm just not able to convince myself, given all that I have seen and read, that it could have been a 757...

ronaldo

Well, I cannot tell you for certain that the plain existed. I can however tell you that all the people on the plane DID exist.

A list of passengers...

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...7.victims.html

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.olson/

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

That's one well known person who was on the flight. Surely noone can say she didn't exist. Once you acknowledge that the people existed, then you have to explain them away. The easiest and one that makes the most sense is that they were ON that flight. How does an entire flight disappear?

I could spew up an endless supply of answers with zero proof and wild speculation as well. Or I can be more convincing and use EVERY little inconsistency I can dig up, and that noone can give a definitive answer to either way. Read NOONE. That simply doesn't prove anything...

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What happened to the plane? The plane was flown out over the ocean and a bomb detonated by the government.

Why didn't anyone see that? They did. Those people were killed too.

How do you know that? I saw the video "Loose Change". Have you seen it? All the answers lie within.

How can you believe everything in that movie? Simple. The government didn't make it. The government lies all the time. Ordinary citizens don't have any agenda other than the truth.

So what hit the Pentagon? A missile.

How do you know? Besides the movie Loose Change, there were a ton of witnesses who never saw a plane, but saw a missile.

What about the people that say they saw a plane? They're lying.

Is it possible the people that saw a missile could be lying, or maybe MISTAKEN? No.

Why not? Well, did you know that two of the witnesses who saw a plane were government employees? What do you think they're gonna say. They were in on it.

Well, there's evidence that HALF of the people who saw a MISSILE were previously residents of psychiatric wards, and the other half were actually blind. How do you explain that? Easy. The ones that had been committed were done so against their will and BY the government. The BLIND people had perfect vision at the time of the attack, but when the government heard that they saw what REALLY happened, they made them drink something that MADE them blind.

Can you prove that? I don't need to prove it. It's the government man. They never tell the truth.

What about the links I posted above proving those people existed? Dude, the government CONTROLS the media. Sure, those people existed, but what HAPPENED to them.

What DID happen to them? Exactly.

No, what happened to them...I say they died in the plane that hit the pentagon. What do YOU say? If you believe a plane hit the pentagon you're a government sheep.

What PROOF do you have a plane DIDN'T hit the pentagon? ***Revert back to top, and go around in circles***

and on and on and on and on

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Simply stated, sometimes the easiest answer IS the truth, no matter how difficult it is to grasp. I said it earlier in this thread...I would be MORE worried if the government DID have all the answers. Then you know they were prepared for all eventualities. Not everything can be explained, but just because they can't, doesn't make it a lie or a coverup.

bdld

the world needs to have crazy conspiracy people so we know what being sane really is.

Manowar

franck is dealing with the tinfoil hats

StuartD

Last I checked, questioning what the government tells you is not a sound basis for judging one's level of sanity. If it was, 99% of people would be insane for most of their adult lives.

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Law Professor Turley of George Washington University was driving his car and it was hit by the plane that flew into the Pentagon. I suppose the conspiracy nuts will simply say that he was lying as they do with all of the other witnesses that saw the plane that hit the Pentagon.

General Cocksworthy

Or maybe the conspiracy nuts work for the government too, so that they can spread so much misinformation that we can never figure out what really happened. They did admit to inventing the UFO phenomenon in the late 40's to conceal cold war weapons development. And we know that they condone "black flag" operations to influence the peoples perception of world events. And MK Ultra where they brainwashed people to carry out assassinations and other horrendous acts. Oh shit, I know to much. Off to Guantonamo Bay for me

Dirty F

No, it will just be ignored.

Scootermuze

They most definitely do.. They've alway had dis-info/mis-info writers on board and a little help from the new media..
Like CNN starting the cell phone call ball rolling with a couple phone calls supposedly made by Barbara Olson to hubby, US Solicitor General Ted Olson.. That was proven to be bullshit, but it created a snowball effect, then a couple days later more and more supposed cell phone calls started appearing from the competing new organizations..

They love all the theories floating around.. They know if they withhold the truth, theories are the only option, so they leave it to us to get wild & crazy..

Scootermuze

I've searched hi & low and have seen nothing about this..
Ya have a link perhaps?

pocketkangaroo

A lot of people believe this and there is some evidence to support it. I don't think the crazy conspiracy nuts are on the payroll, but I think they do get more attention and feul from the government.

Some say that the left supports the right-wing conservative nuts, guys like Fred Phelps and so forth because they portray the religious right in the most extreme. The right can somewhat support the crazy conspiracy theorists because they make the anti-Bush crowd look really stupid and out there.

pocketkangaroo

Are all these people in on the conspiracy too?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/91...witnesses.html

Were all these pics and quotes from people who are good at photoshop and all in on the conspiracy too?

http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

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No. I personally have not searched for a link. I saw Professor Turley ( who frequently appears on TV as a law consultant and who also frequently testifies before congress with an opinion involving a matter of law) state that the plane struck his car as he was driving it. It was apparently just on the verge of hitting the lawn before striking the Pentagon. He is probably listed among the many, many witnesses that saw the plane as it was dropping in altitude and the many that saw it fly into the Pentagon.

klinton

Dirty F

After the missile hit the building they used a truck to quickly drop some landing gear and stuff in the building

Or could it be the landing gear from the missile?

Dirty F

Bump.


Id love to hear the theories about the picture posted above.

Dirty F

Funny how someone in this thread said something like:

Show us proof that it was a plane...and please dont post pictures of the plain parts that were found, that doesnt count.

Wtffff haha.

Michaelious

There is pretty much no wreckage of any plane at the pentagon, here's an idea. Prove to me the plane is there then? And no it didn't disintegrate into nothing.

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Alky

Franck .. someone in this thread said a plane hit a car before it hit the Pentagon ... while I don't believe this.. if it did or not... where is all the destruction to the grass ? It's a bad argument because you could say that it hit the building directly, but it's hard to believe traveling that fast and the pilots probably weren't the greatest.

Dirty F

Did you even look at the picture above? Are you mentally challenged?

Dirty F

I didnt see the grass, did you?

I cannot answer this.

Alky

Dirty F

Ok before we get all the silly loose change idiotic arguments again:

WTF IS A LANDING GEAR OF A PLANE DOING IN THE FRIGGING PENTAGON.

Please answer me this first before we continue.

Dirty F

I dont see any damage in the grass. I wish there were better pics and close ups. There could be tons of damage on the right of left.

But maybe there is no damage to grass at all. Once again i dont know. But let me say this:

What sounds more important to you?

Damage to grass or a fucking massive landing gear in the Pentagon?


Hmm difficult..

Alky

Ok according to your picture they found 1 part of it .. what happened to the other 3?

Is it completely impossible that landing gear was planted in a part of the building that construction was being performed on?

Alky

how do you even know that is the landing gear? was it confirmed by the manufacturer?

Where is the rest of the plane?

Scootermuze

I, for one, never said missile.. I just said that I couldn't see any way that is was a 757..

They show a single piece of landing gear, a single (small) disk, a tire rim, and a bunch of smashed up metal..
How does that indicate that it was a 757, which has 3 sets of landing gear, 2 engines with 6+ ft. engine disks, solid titanium engine shafts, etc..

The wheels are also similar to that of a Global Hawk.. The landing gear is similar to that of a Global Hawk.. The disk is more aligned with the size on one in a Global Hawk..

Now to apply just a bit of common sense.. a 757 has an aluminum nose, and it supposedly hit at an angle, which would involved a deflection factor, yet this aluminum nose, with a bit of steel framing, was able to withstand the weight of the plane on impact, get through several steel re-enforced walls, and leave a nice, well-rounded hole in the C ring..
Yet the 2, 6 ton engines, the heaviest parts of the plane, didn't make a hole.. or even a dent..

They supposedly can't identify what hit it because everything was destroyed beyond such point, yet they were able to identify all of the passengers..

The AFIP in its report dated November 16, 2001, incredibly said it positively identified nearly all the bodies, including the Flight 77 passengers, a medical feat which several medical experts considered miraculous if not, impossible, considering the short amount of time and the amount of devastation at the crime scene.
These were govt. autopsies with no independant, second opinions allowed..

RF_Erick

Has anyone seen a piece of luggage or a seat in ANY picture?
Gov says the plane vaporized yet the humans on board didnt and collected DNA.
Does that many ANY sense?

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Do you reject the testimony of all of the ordinary people that saw the plane descending and the testimony of those that actually saw the plane hit the pentagon and of Law Professor Turley of George Washington University (a very well known and prominent Professor) who stated that the plane struck his car as he was driving? Are all of these people lying or mistaken when they say they saw what they saw?

RF_Erick

umm if a plane struck a car, I dont think anybody in that car would be around to say what happened. Any pics of this car?

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