Well, it is always one sided these board posts and you never know who is telling the truth or what the actually motives are. So, I am skeptical. Of course, shaving isn?t something I support.

The examples you state are both illegal and thus can hardly be compared to shaving. And no, companies that shave don't hurt the reputation of NATS...they hurt their own reputation. That's like saying a guy who cuts his finger while chopping some carrots is going to ruin the knife company's reputation.

That is unless you are of the belief that NATS is a service and not "software." I mean, software *is* installed on your server, but if you lease the product, perhaps it can be considered a service? But what if you buy it? What rights do manufacturers have after a purchase is made for this or any other product? *I* believe it is a piece of software that you purchase and can use in any way you see fit...which is why I can agree to disagree with you above.

Regardless, I'll continue to argue that to come out in a public forum like this without being 100% positive is morally incomprehensible. Sure they called the company and had profanities hurled at them; what if that wasn't the guy in charge? What if it was someone's kid brother? What if managment wasn't even aware of any wrongdoing?

To believe that their reputation won't suffer if they weren't in fact shaving is extremely naive. People were burned at the stake because of name calling (witches) and thrown in jail for being labeled a "pinko." Rumors are easy to start and hard to quell. The damage is done no matter what the outcome is.

And btw, I'm not defending them by any means...I have never even heard of the program. But when the management of a company whose products I use pulls a stunt like this, I want to make sure they have gone to the ends of the earth to gather proof of the wrongdoing. Otherwise, they could wind up at the wrong end of a costly libel lawsuit

Oh, cheating is no good. I just don?t think that a software vendor should release any information they get, because they have access to confidential information. I wouldn?t want Microsoft to go into my exchange server and start pulling apart my e-mails.

If NATS outed me on the board, I'd respond with my side of the story.

This never works out. It is something 2 companies need to battle out and then, after they win or loose whatever fight they had, they can post a press release. Or let the media report on it.

Yes, that worked wonders for MPA2's image. :)

I have no idea who Super Negro is, but I like the way they think.

So now NATS will launch NATS3?

Wait, is this the same Chris and Brandi that pulled the plug on their partners overnight without any warning and basically stole everything from them after years of hard work? The same Chris and Brandi and left their partners with nothing after shutting their access down overnight from servers, bank accounts and all systems?

It has to be different people!

I have seen the light. :thumbsup

:food-smil

:eek7 :eek7 :eek7 :eek7

nice catch. this is the first time I heard of that sponsor

I?ve never seen someone owned so professionally before. Total class 100%! :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Wow! Just got back from airport HELL and saw this thread. Took me awhile to read through it because I want to see if anything was resolved yet.

I just wanted to vouch for the character of xclusivecash and specifically Chris and Brandi. They have been very good clients of mine for many years and they are not the type of people they are being made out to be in this thread. Without getting into too much personal information, I will just say they have been through alot this year so far and have been working through some serious stuff. I know there has got to be some explanation for this.

TMM - you guys run a great program and I am sure you had your reasons and concerns for bringing this to attention, I only wish this could have been resolved in private first, although I know you mentioned you tried and again I have a hard time believing you received that type of reaction from xlcusivecash.

I hope you can get this worked out. I hate to see either reputation ruined.

Is KBizzle the new marketing director over there?

I guess you only know one side of the story huh? That's too bad. No disrepect to you Super Negro.

At some point the entire story will come out I am sure.

Although, MPA3 is good ..... I still can't get over their shaving module they had in the past.

I had a kid on the way when I was pushing a program that used the original MPA. I can only imagine how much I was ripped off and the hardship it caused.

I still stay away from programs that use MPA.

Please add your site to our huge adult toplist - Easy traffic - your sites go up within 15 minutes of first hit you send!
datesanywhere.com/webmaster.htm

:thumbsup :thumbsup

But you'll push Nats programs, Ccbill affiliates programs and custom affiliate scripts? :disgust

Every single affiliate program could find a way to shave if they wanted to.

John is one smart dude and would not do this on a whim...

I'm sure he checked, double checked and checked again before proceeding...




This is definitely an interesting thread to watch.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3...tonfireoz7.jpg

a sponsor finding a way to shave and a biller just outright providing the tools for him to do it....

surely you can see the difference there

I'm sure a lot of them 'want' to, they just aren't smart enough to pull it off. Honesty and integrity isn't exactly something that oozes from the pores of the industry.

Sorry wrong post.

The sad reality is that feature was probably included because it was in such popular demand. The only reason it ever got ousted on the boards is because some loud mouth like myself saw it and decided to do something about it.

I don't fault a programming company for providing something their clients want.

Ask yourself this, do you really think that would have been a feature if nobody wanted it? HELL NO. It was there because their clients WANTED IT!

No shit huh? :disgust

I agree that it definitely had to be in demand, but that still doesn't make it right. That's why Mansion lost a ton of respect. 2 wrongs never make a right, there's demand for K P too, does that mean some huge company should start pumping out sites? Because it's in demand?

Theft is theft, no matter what way you look at it. Providing tools for theft constitutes an accessory to the crime. Mansion productions was an accessory to the theft of how many thousands of dollars?

Just because a few shitbags *want* tools to rip people off with doesn't mean billing software providers should just readily make it available. Thats like saying just because some people want to eat babies we should start selling them at the butchers market :2 cents:

I give off that vibe and shout it on occasion.

Committing fraud is illegal which a company does when they rip off webmasters by stealing their sales.

Of course it hurts NATS reputation. They were built as the program that was shave-proof. It's why it's such a big selling point to affiliates. If affiliates start to figure out that companies are shaving with NATS, they lose that credibility and less sponsors use it as it isn't the selling point it used to be.

They call it a license. No difference than your Microsoft Windows license. You may purchase it for life, but you still can't do such things as distribute it to others. I'm assuming that NATS has a set of terms on their license that they don't allow you to break. XClusiveCash broke those terms.

As for the rest, I'm torn on whether it's good or bad. As an affiliate, I feel better knowing that NATS is being policed and that sponsors aren't allowed to rip off webmasters. On the other hand, it isn't their responsibility to let people know that the company shaved. They could have suspended the license and moved on. However, their name was attached to that program and if anything came up later on about, you'd hear the "you can shave in NATS" comments.

I think the best solution would have been to announce the suspension but leave out the crap about profanities. Just say "we have suspended xclusivecash's license for terms of service violation" and moved on. Business conversations should remain between the parties involved.

4 pages and no one posted baghdad bob yet?
What's this board coming to!

Xxxotic i see your point but that is our industry. Here's an example.

Many many many years ago i worked for xpics. They were one of the dirtiest bastards ever. One thing they did was not allow members the ability to cancel as well as start rebilling cancelled members after a few months had passed. In otherwords THEFT. I knew this and I still promoted the hell out of xpics from my personal sites. The same way many of you know of dirty companies in our industry and still promote the shit out of them. Just because I did that does that make me someone who shouldn't be trusted today?

Our industry is full of absolute scum. We all know that. At some point each of us has dealt with and done business with a lowlife stealing piece of shit slimebag.

In my case I saw what a scamming company does and decided to do the exact opposite and run probably the most honest company around. That's just me. I may be wrong but I have a feeling the mentality at MPA today is nothing close to what it was 5 years ago.

my question is how long was this brewing before john brought it to the board?

if just today - then maybe a time out before posting would have been better - if for a few days - then perhaps it was warrented

i love NATs

they learned a biggggggggg lesson from those days and it cost them as well - also Oystein is a norsky

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

I am guessing you only know one side as well, considering I doubt you have talked personally to the ex-partners of NR about the whole ordeal. I would be willing to put money on the fact that you have not spoken to anyone but Chris or Brandi about all this, and that YOU also are extremely one sided. The sad fact is you are siding with the scammers.

I've heard both sides and you know what, the third side has to be the real answer, and what is the third side you ask? It's the truth, of course. Everyone skews their perception of situtations automatically, it's human nature. However this thread isn't about that, this thread is about NATS and NR. This fence is really high, I hope I can get off it soon, I'm afraid of heights.

Not everyone is you either Shap. :winkwink: You might have a conscience, but most of the people running larger programs don't.

"but that is our industry" so what you're saying is we should all just continue to lie down and take it? It's shit like this that makes it that way and no one is going to do anything about it unless we ourselves do something. People are too concerned over whose dick is bigger and who has the nicest car or fattest bankroll and not about policing this industry and making it a bit more ethical but no, we just roll over and allow this industry to be a safe haven for criminals. I don't get it?

It's like being on the sexual predator list, once you're on it, you're a sick fuck in the worlds eyes. Doesn't matter if you were 18 and she was 17, you're now a labeled a rapist and molestor. Regardless of whether or not 5 years down the road you suddenly develop a taste for MILF, you're still that sick fuck on the list.

They got caught and outed so no matter what, 10, 15 years from now, if people are around who were around when they got caught, they'll still be considered dishonest. So most people arent going to care if they had a change of heart after the fact. Their grand entrance into billing world left a bitter taste in a lot of peoples mouths and speaking for only for myself, fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me, but I'm almost certain I'm not the only one who feels that way.

And for the record, I'm very quick to pull links when I think something shady is going on, other people might tolerate being stolen from, but I certainly won't. I'm not in this business to get ripped off so I don't even waste my traffic on companies I know about, I've already been ripped off more than I care to even think about :(

id like to know who super negro and SonOfJesus are...

no program on the planet is 100% shave proof. nats included. but from what i've sceen nats has the best security out there.

sounds like nats was the one being shaved though, AS YOU PAY BASED ON VOLUME OF YOUR PROGRAM, and they caught them red handed screwing them by misreporting their volume.

when someone agrees to something - follow though.

nats is just publically saying that when they agree to something - they follow though on their word.


least that's what I got from this.

There are evidently a lot of guys messing with the database tables. I've heard rumours of this for a long time now.

Good on Nats for coming down on this...The other guys in the past did not.

I hope you aren't jumping the gun on this.

I agree with what you say. But John's second statement makes it sound like it's still wait and see at this point. I'm guessing John has his ducks in order though.

john left me with the impression that he has tried to contact them regarding the discrepency and they were not willing to let him help them sort it out - and were rude. he is not saying that they shave but rather that they have been unwilling to help him fix/figure out what's up on their end. it's gonna stay wait and see till they give him access to get things sorted out.

i think lawyers might be better to have in order but ducks ARE cuter...

One request...when they respond...Can we start a new thread...I am trying to keep up but I am going to miss it...lol

Wow, and I wasn't even going to check the board tonight...

I love how the fake nicks (Super Negro, et al) come out when the sheep are being fleeced...

http://www.erc.org.au/immersions/let...1035507855.jpg

Almost as much fun as watching the Sponsor playas possibly toot NATS in exchange for discounts/freebies...

The closer I look at GFY and this industry, the more cynical I become.

For being one who questions the self-appointed adult web authorities (and their sig lackies), I get subjected to stupid comments like I can't afford to go to InterNext, or I can't afford NATS, which of course must mean my comments aren't credible, even though it is irrelevent to the positions I take.

Never mind that I have paid my own way to InterNext more than once (see photo sets on my site of past InterNext shows I attended), and I am not a Sponsor (therefore I don't need NATS or other such programs, duh).

Yes, it's true, I am neither a Sponsor (therefore I am not a shill for NATS, MPA or anyone else), nor am I major affiliate player (in other words, I have no vested stake at all in this discussion) - yet I still rake in enough bucks on my own to pay out $75,000+ in model/performer fees annually (plus tons of other expenses), and absorb a major iBill rip-off and remain profitably in business.

I doubt NATS would ever take on a major Sponsor this way...but of course none of them ever shave, or look the other way when affiliates steal content, or look the other way when affiliates spam their sites.

If you believe that, welcome to Neverland.

ADG Webmaster

Maybe some of us are just not wanting to come public with solid info quite yet ;) There could quite possibly be court cases getting started that we are part of that require us not to speak publicly about what is actually happening