Review sites using your content? - Page 5 - GoFuckYourself.com

SteveLightspeed · 07-13-2006, 04:22 PM

Ok, I've stayed out of this post for a while deliberately to absorb many other people's opinions. I admit that I did react emotionally, and for that I apologize to Rick, Aly, and thebestporn.com crew.

I accept the fact that other sites are seen as "better". I like many of them better than my own too. Their achievements are inspirational to me; ATK, Karups, Twistys, Homegrown, and many others. I'm not complaining about their scores or their reviews.

Anyone who knows me also knows I take great pride in my work, often to the point of obsession. I feel that our sites are better today than they have ever been. We've focused for nearly a year on improving the quantity and quality of our content offerings, and adding features and services that we believe our surfers want and deserve. Many of the ideas we've implemented were suggestions from TBP.

That is why I get so frustrated, after "waiting 6 months to be re-reviewed" to see little or no change, or even worse, a reduction in score. I feel like I'm chasing a the proverbial carrot here!

So I flew off the handle, posted in haste, and attacked a company for no good reason. I regret that. Its not my style. I don't hate review sites in general, nor TBP in particular.

I think the many posts and opinions expressed in this thread do serve to prove the point that the review process is imperfect, and I hope that we can all work together to find common ground and a win/win.

Steve Lightspeed

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Ok, I've stayed out of this post for a while deliberately to absorb many other people's opinions. I admit that I did react emotionally, and for that I apologize to Rick, Aly, and thebestporn.com crew.

I accept the fact that other sites are seen as "better". I like many of them better than my own too. Their achievements are inspirational to me; ATK, Karups, Twistys, Homegrown, and many others. I'm not complaining about their scores or their reviews.

Anyone who knows me also knows I take great pride in my work, often to the point of obsession. I feel that our sites are better today than they have ever been. We've focused for nearly a year on improving the quantity and quality of our content offerings, and adding features and services that we believe our surfers want and deserve. Many of the ideas we've implemented were suggestions from TBP.

That is why I get so frustrated, after "waiting 6 months to be re-reviewed" to see little or no change, or even worse, a reduction in score. I feel like I'm chasing a the proverbial carrot here!

So I flew off the handle, posted in haste, and attacked a company for no good reason. I regret that. Its not my style. I don't hate review sites in general, nor TBP in particular.

I think the many posts and opinions expressed in this thread do serve to prove the point that the review process is imperfect, and I hope that we can all work together to find common ground and a win/win.

Steve Lightspeed

Whoa, I like today's Steve much better than yesterday's!!

This thread turned out to be pretty positive I think in the end (hell, i needed to add some hits to my postcount somehow). Since it appears we won't be going to "war" anytime soon, I'll have Aly cease the long-range missile testing.

I'd love to work on a productive relationship between our companies from here on out. If you want to e-mail us specific changes you made prior to each follow-up review, I can shoot you an e-mail address that'll reach each reviewer personally.

If there's anything still "unresolved", please do hit us up. Thanks man.

BV · 07-13-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

I think the many posts and opinions expressed in this thread do serve to prove the point that the review process is imperfect, and I hope that we can all work together to find common ground and a win/win.

Steve Lightspeed

I agree, something needs to be done about prices.
Our scripting gives our affiliates the ability to change price points on trials as well as monthly fees. So our sites have many different prices.

Question for review sites:

If you guys think less expensive is better (obviously) then would you set that option to 9.95 a month for our sites?

I'm curious how much of a quote: good valuable service you would want to bring to your readers.

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

I feel that our sites are better today than they have ever been. We've focused for nearly a year on improving the quantity and quality of our content offerings, and adding features and services that we believe our surfers want and deserve. Many of the ideas we've implemented were suggestions from TBP.

That is why I get so frustrated, after "waiting 6 months to be re-reviewed" to see little or no change, or even worse, a reduction in score. I feel like I'm chasing a the proverbial carrot here!

Just to make sure I address this...

I got a list of "upgrades" from Sweetums that I addressed in my e-mail you to yesterday. I'm unaware of anything specific that was implemented based on our suggestions, but I may have missed something.

The follow-up review that went up yesterday for Lightspeed World did increase slightly (from 82.1 to 82.4). I assume you're referring to Tawnee Stone's review regarding the decrease (80.8 to 80.1) which was done in Feb. The major component to that very slight decrease was the change in price ($20 to $30) for access to Tawnee's site. There were positive comments in that follow-up which kept the score in the 80's.

Look forward to seeing the continued evolution of LS sites. Regardless of anything negative we have to say, overall our reviewers geniunely do enjoy the amazing network of sites you guys have put together and that's well documented in the reviews. Keep up the great work!

Mutt · 07-13-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Ok, I've stayed out of this post for a while deliberately to absorb many other people's opinions. I admit that I did react emotionally, and for that I apologize to Rick, Aly, and thebestporn.com crew.

I accept the fact that other sites are seen as "better". I like many of them better than my own too. Their achievements are inspirational to me; ATK, Karups, Twistys, Homegrown, and many others. I'm not complaining about their scores or their reviews.

Steve Lightspeed

why would you concede any of those sites are better than your own? you can't compare your sites with any of those - when Twistys, Karups or ATK discover their own models and shoot them in their own style then your sites can be compared to them - negatively or favorably. Review sites don't understand the solo girl niche at all - not from a webmaster or fan/surfer perspective.

Aly · 07-13-2006, 05:06 PM

Nice response Steve... and thanks for starting an interesting and important discussion... especially now that new review sites are popping up at the rate of new affiliate programs in 2000! ;)

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

Question for review sites:

If you guys think less expensive is better (obviously) then would you set that option to 9.95 a month for our sites?

I'm curious how much of a quote: good valuable service you would want to bring to your readers.

We usually recommend a special monthly rate (no trial) of $14.95/mo. It's completely up to the webmaster of course. Even a more conservative discount (say from $30 to $20) can still be effective. But $15 seems to be a solid price tag that opens the door to our "bargain-hunters". $10 would be slightly more effective, but not enough of an increase IMO to maxmize the revenues.

Anyone who wants to see the difference in sales by offering such a discount, hit Aly up (aly at thebestporn.com) and we can get the ball rolling. It's most effective for costly sites scored in the 80's or higher. My maximizing their potential price/value score, it can make a big difference. Scores are usually adjusted within days after applying the discount in our database. Beyond that, we also promote these discounts in up to two other sections of our site to add additional exposure.

SteveLightspeed · 07-13-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly

Nice response Steve... and thanks for starting an interesting and important discussion... especially now that new review sites are popping up at the rate of new affiliate programs in 2000! ;)

Hehe, seen any new solo girl sites lately?

Snake Doctor · 07-13-2006, 05:29 PM

I think part of Steve's problem here (even though he's calmed down quite a bit) is that the value of his business is his brand recognition.

Some guys goes to work and over lunch with a buddy says "I saw this awesome babe last night on the net named Tawnee Stone"

His buddy then goes home and google's Tawnee Stone, and lo and behold the top results for that keyword are review sites.
The surfer clicks through and is then told that Tawnee's site is "just ok" but here are 15 sites we think are better.

Now Steve's branding which has costs him hundreds of thousands of dollars is what brought that surfer in the first place, and then the review site with the SERP ranking sends the surfer somewhere else.
I'd be pissed to.

This is very similar to the problem Shap has with blogs using a bunch of his pics on a page when the main purpose of the page is to promote someone else's dating site.

If Steve wanted to he could literally force review sites from using the names of his models at all, since they are his intellectual property, and I think he feels that review sites are using "his name" to make money from "other sponsors"
He has some legitimate gripes here

FTVGirls_Rob · 07-13-2006, 05:30 PM

I do agree with Steve on the main point however -- that to get to be on the Top 10, you'd need to make an exclusive discount plan with thebestporn. Since I cannot do that right now with FTV, it simply shuts me out of the top ten now... even with the 2000kb/sec wmv video upgrades and no price increase.

Aly · 07-13-2006, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Hehe, seen any new solo girl sites lately?

haha! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, darling... You must be thrilled. ;)

SteveLightspeed · 07-13-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTVGirls_Rob

I do agree with Steve on the main point however -- that to get to be on the Top 10, you'd need to make an exclusive discount plan with thebestporn. Since I cannot do that right now with FTV, it simply shuts me out of the top ten now... even with the 2000kb/sec wmv video upgrades and no price increase.

Rob, I think we both sound like the kids that argued with their teachers because they got an "A" instead of an "A+". FTV is a great site, you should be proud.

Steve Lightspeed

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTVGirls_Rob

I do agree with Steve on the main point however -- that to get to be on the Top 10, you'd need to make an exclusive discount plan with thebestporn. Since I cannot do that right now with FTV, it simply shuts me out of the top ten now... even with the 2000kb/sec wmv video upgrades and no price increase.

Yo Rob! Let's get you a follow-up review man. Last review was 11-06-04 and 2000k video alone will be loved by the reviewers. You're only 1.5 pts away from breaking the top 10. Say the word or log-in and request a follow-up, and the gears will be in motion!

p.s. Only 4 sites in our top 10 have exclusive discounts with us.

Aly · 07-13-2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTVGirls_Rob

I do agree with Steve on the main point however -- that to get to be on the Top 10, you'd need to make an exclusive discount plan with thebestporn. Since I cannot do that right now with FTV, it simply shuts me out of the top ten now... even with the 2000kb/sec wmv video upgrades and no price increase.

That's not correct, babe. Videobox, for example, doesn't offer a special price, they are inexpensive though.
Review scores are based on many factors; value/price is simply the easiest factor to change in order to increase one's score. (it also includes a lower flat payout if necessary).

Rui · 07-13-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ghost

A few interesting sides in this. Nice to see a good business/marketing debate.

You can say that again...just to think there was a time threads like these were "usual"

Rui · 07-13-2006, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

This is very similar to the problem Shap has with blogs using a bunch of his pics on a page when the main purpose of the page is to promote someone else's dating site.

WTF...yeah totaly similar cases...gezzz

SteveLightspeed - nice post, shows what your made off (your human after all rigth).

karup · 07-13-2006, 06:05 PM

In my opinion, it is unethical for a review site to offer a site owner a higher score if the site owner is willing to give the review site's surfers a discounted price. Don't give me this bullshit about price affecting the score. Your job is to review the site as is, so review it as is, don't offer a better score for doing your surfers a favor and making you look better.

We were offered a better score by The Best Porn if we were willing to reduce our price for their surfers. I'll be honest, that pissed me off. Here they are trying to be all ethical & filled with integrity, yet behind the scenes they are trying to make deals that have nothing to do with a site's quality & true rating. Wouldn't we be fucking over our longtime members that have been paying $29.95 per month for years if we gave TBP surfers a discounted price? Wouldn't we also be fucking over our affiliates that have been supporting us for over 8 years? Thanks, but no thanks, not interested in any bullshit & behind the scene deals to improve our ratings. We've got more integrity than that.

SleazyDream · 07-13-2006, 06:07 PM

what if your models posed for the review sites in the same cloths at the exact same location. then it would be the models problem and not the review sites on your contract with them.

ok, i'm bored

Snake Doctor · 07-13-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rui

WTF...yeah totaly similar cases...gezzz

Ok I'll try to type slowly so you can follow along.

In both cases you have an affiliate using someone's intellectual property to get traffic, and then sending that traffic to someone OTHER THAN the owner of that intellectual property that brought the surfer to your site in the first place.

Far-L · 07-13-2006, 06:12 PM

My one gripe...

I just don't think that a higher price point for a site that has more and better than one that has less and worse should be negatively reviewed.

I see amateur sites with far, far less than ours in so many ways but with much higher reviews. Completely baffles me but still I support the reviewers right to judge us in whatever way they wish.

Jace · 07-13-2006, 06:18 PM

TBP, i have a question about sites that work out special deals for your surfers

say I gave your surfers a special price of $14.95, would you all also be getting our standard 60% payout out of that also?

AmateurFlix · 07-13-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

That is why I get so frustrated... I feel like I'm chasing a the proverbial carrot here!

Just what else do you think you're doing?

Every other affiliate sales method takes the position of the sponsor site that is paying them and pushes the site's positive attributes. If it is an affiliate site that has or wants to keep bookmarkers they're not going to push shitty sites anyway because that destroys consumer confidence and anyone with experience knows that.

These type of affiliates make it a point to "educate consumers" which is just about the dumbest approach I've ever heard of for porn customers who prior to this "education" were mostly concerned with unzipping their pants without giving much thought to critical analysis of the site or of the pricing. As a result of this it pits sponsors AGAINST one another because of their site's flaws rather than promoting the positive aspects that every other type of affiliate focuses on.

On top of this these affiliates offer you sweetheart deals if only you agree to make less money for subjecting your work to the above process

Steve will you please increase my payout if I mention all the flaws of your sites and put links to other sponsors on the same page that I use your promo content on?

SteveLightspeed · 07-13-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly

(it also includes a lower flat payout if necessary).

Wait, let's do some math here. If you want us to offer a discount to your surfers, we potentialy eat way more than you in the process.

Let me explain:

------------------------------
Per Signup Payout
Normal:
$40 site with $35 payout --- sponsor makes $5

Price and flat payout both reduced by $15:
$25 site with $20 payout --- sponsor makes $5

But carry that out with rebills:
1 rebill = $45 vs $30
2 rebills = $85 vs $55
3 rebills = $125 vs $80
4 rebills = $165 vs $105

So even though it looks like YOU absorb the discount,you would actaully reduce OUR net by 33% or more, right?

What makes more sense to me is "wholesale price" and "suggested retail price":

When an affiliate sells a $40 site at 60%, I keep $16 and the affiliate keeps $24. So what if I said my "wholesale price" is $16 -- and if you want to sell if for $17, you make $1 per sale + $1 per rebill. You can set your price point anywhere you like then, it doesn't dig into my pocket at all.

SteveLightspeed · 07-13-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

When an affiliate sells a $40 site at 60%, I keep $16 and the affiliate keeps $24. So what if I said my "wholesale price" is $16 -- and if you want to sell if for $17, you make $1 per sale + $1 per rebill. You can set your price point anywhere you like then, it doesn't dig into my pocket at all.

This would also only be fair if this price setting was available to ALL affiliates.

jayeff · 07-13-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karup

In my opinion, it is unethical for a review site to offer a site owner a higher score if the site owner is willing to give the review site's surfers a discounted price. Don't give me this bullshit about price affecting the score. Your job is to review the site as is, so review it as is, don't offer a better score for doing your surfers a favor and making you look better.

Exactly!

If a review site can negotiate a better price (which incidentally is a nice slap in the face for that sponsor's other affiliates) I guess no-one can stop the site offering it. But that should be outside of the review and not affect the site's score/rating.

Anything else makes the reviews look biased and that doesn't work in anyone's favor in the long run.

Karupted Charles · 07-13-2006, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

I accept the fact that other sites are seen as "better". I like many of them better than my own too. Their achievements are inspirational to me; ATK, Karups, Twistys, Homegrown, and many others. I'm not complaining about their scores or their reviews.
Steve Lightspeed

Thanks for the Props Steve but apparently offering thousands of new exclusive pics per WEEK 640x480 videos at 1kbps is not even enough to get us in the top 50 when we are in the top ten on most other review sites.

One of the explanations I got is we were marked down for adding some non exclusive content so we we are not 100% exclusive. Lets not bother to count we add more exclusive content per week then most do in months on top of the non exclusive stuff we add.

jayeff · 07-13-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

If Steve wanted to he could literally force review sites from using the names of his models at all, since they are his intellectual property

You need to check out "fair use". Review sites are not in a gray area like arguably TGPs are which skim some of the clicks off thumbnails to their trades. Review sites are covered by exactly the same laws as newspapers, magazines and electronic media, allowing them to quote excerpts of text and the like quite legally.

jayeff · 07-13-2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmateurFlix

As a result of this it pits sponsors AGAINST one another

I think that is called competition, no?

Although once again you appear to be ascribing far more power to review sites than they are ever likely to have and still ignoring that even if you want to buy something as mundane as a set of saucepans, somewhere on the web will be a review suggesting which pans are the best value for money.

wedouglas · 07-13-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aly

Nice response Steve... and thanks for starting an interesting and important discussion... especially now that new review sites are popping up at the rate of new affiliate programs in 2000! ;)

I look forward to seeing you in the SERPs very soon.

Snake Doctor · 07-13-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPW Guru

Thanks for the Props Steve but apparently offering thousands of new exclusive pics per WEEK 640x480 videos at 1kbps is not even enough to get us in the top 50 when we are in the top ten on most other review sites.

One of the explanations I got is we were marked down for adding some non exclusive content so we we are not 100% exclusive. Lets not bother to count we add more exclusive content per week then most do in months on top of the non exclusive stuff we add.

That's hilarious considering 3 of their top 10 rated sites use nothing but ripped DVD content, with no exclusives at all.

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karup

In my opinion, it is unethical for a review site to offer a site owner a higher score if the site owner is willing to give the review site's surfers a discounted price. Don't give me this bullshit about price affecting the score. Your job is to review the site as is, so review it as is, don't offer a better score for doing your surfers a favor and making you look better.

We were offered a better score by The Best Porn if we were willing to reduce our price for their surfers. I'll be honest, that pissed me off. Here they are trying to be all ethical & filled with integrity, yet behind the scenes they are trying to make deals that have nothing to do with a site's quality & true rating. Wouldn't we be fucking over our longtime members that have been paying $29.95 per month for years if we gave TBP surfers a discounted price? Wouldn't we also be fucking over our affiliates that have been supporting us for over 8 years? Thanks, but no thanks, not interested in any bullshit & behind the scene deals to improve our ratings. We've got more integrity than that.

Hey Jeff! You bring up solid points.

The idea to offer special discounts came after programs like Flynt Digital started offerring webmasters $9.95/mo memberships and payouts of $20 per signup (vs. standard $29.95/mo memberships). Our users ate it up, and we later found many sites willing to setup discounts for our users as well. It almost always produces more revenue for the program and us (we take revshare usually).

Does cutting prices screw current members? It's a matter of opinion. Promotions (especially based on referring new customers) exist everywhere online and offline. Restaurant.com is a good example online. You can go there to buy dining certificates to specific restaurants at major discounted rates. Customers can use a certificate to a specific restaurant once per month and repeat as they wish.

Does offering such discounts WHILE acting as an independent review site compromise our integrity? It's definitely a unique situation and one we put a lot of thought into. But the bottom line is, every site has the ability to set their price however they wish. Whether it's a standard price, or a discount price, we judge and score it accordingly. Price obviously makes a difference to users, and we believe it should factor into the scoring. Every site has equal opportunity to offer whatever price they wish (discount or not). The choice is up to the webmaster, and I respect their decision either way.

Do we ask for exclusive pricing? Absolutely not. We're not asking the affiliate program to do something special only for us. If they want to give all their affiliates the same opportunity, then that's cool. To us, it's easiest when it's built into the affiliate program (like Flynt, Pimp Roll, and a few others).

We're all trying to be original and bring new ideas to the table. This is one concept that has been working very well and we'll continue to build on it. It helps build our user retention and generate more referrals. Does this give our site an advantage over our competition? You bet, but nothing is stopping them from doing the same. Are we in this to make money and establish long-term loyalty? Absolutely.

Snake Doctor · 07-13-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

You need to check out "fair use". Review sites are not in a gray area like arguably TGPs are which skim some of the clicks off thumbnails to their trades. Review sites are covered by exactly the same laws as newspapers, magazines and electronic media, allowing them to quote excerpts of text and the like quite legally.

I think there's a strong argument to be made against that, because if a newspaper gives a restaurant a bad review and recommends a different one, they don't get a kickback from the owner of restaurant number two.

Same thing with a magazine like consumer reports, they take no advertising money so they can say whatever they want about any product.
Review sites are in that gray area because they do make money selling the products they review.

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

TBP, i have a question about sites that work out special deals for your surfers

say I gave your surfers a special price of $14.95, would you all also be getting our standard 60% payout out of that also?

If it's revshare, then yes. We've done this many times with dozens of programs so far, and only one didn't work out. Nothing is in stone, if webmasters don't make more money or aren't satisfied for any reason, we can go back to the regular price. It's our job to make that discount work to make you more money.

If it's PPS, then we'll accept their revshare program or agree to a lower PPS payout.

AmateurFlix · 07-13-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayeff

I think that is called competition, no?

yes, and that is a bad thing for those trying to make money... since it can be controlled and reduced or eliminated, it makes sense to do so. Businessmen like Rockefeller made a fortune doing this while they were able to, not in trying to gain customers by "educating" them as how to spend their funds.

Quote:

Although once again you appear to be ascribing far more power to review sites than they are ever likely to have and still ignoring that even if you want to buy something as mundane as a set of saucepans, somewhere on the web will be a review suggesting which pans are the best value for money.

I'm not suggesting that it's going to affect anyone outside of that specific traffic pool obviously.

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPW Guru

One of the explanations I got is we were marked down for adding some non exclusive content so we we are not 100% exclusive. Lets not bother to count we add more exclusive content per week then most do in months on top of the non exclusive stuff we add.

This is something I'd like to talk about with the reviewers and may be something we can improve on.

"Exclusive" score (5 pts) is one of the toughest scores to judge for our reviewers. A site that contains 100% exclusive content (no third party feeds, leased content, etc) deserves a full score. However, those sites may suffer in the "quantity" score (15 pts) since it's expensive to produce a ton of it. If that site decided to add some decent non-exclusive content, they would have an advantage with "quantity" and suffer a small hit to "exclusive".

It's tough to make it work perfectly. If a site adds useful non-exclusive content as an extra bonus to users, in most cases they should improve on the overall score which is what's important. The total improvement though would most likely be very small since the content is usually secondary (and of less value to users) compared to the primary content. Each case is unique, and our reviewers need to keep multiple variables in mind to score this properly.

rankscom · 07-13-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

Wait, let's do some math here. If you want us to offer a discount to your surfers, we potentialy eat way more than you in the process.

Let me explain:

------------------------------
Per Signup Payout
Normal:
$40 site with $35 payout --- sponsor makes $5

Price and flat payout both reduced by $15:
$25 site with $20 payout --- sponsor makes $5

But carry that out with rebills:
1 rebill = $45 vs $30
2 rebills = $85 vs $55
3 rebills = $125 vs $80
4 rebills = $165 vs $105

So even though it looks like YOU absorb the discount,you would actaully reduce OUR net by 33% or more, right?

You're forgetting two important variables:

1. # of Sales Produced with one price vs. the other.
2. Retention with one price vs. the other.

Let's say sales double due to the lower price (we usually see a higher increase). Let's say retention improves by an avg of one month. I don't know your avg retention, but let's say it's 3 months.

Discount ($25): $25 x 4 months x 2 = $200
Original ($40): $40 x 3 months = $120

Even if retention stays the same (3 months), that's still $150 vs $120. So we split more money overall. Results vary, but in almost every case the total is significantly more.

QuaWee · 07-13-2006, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeA

My comments are based on a UK Indian model who has had a lot of publicity for being one of the few Muslim porn stars beinbg called Latina for a start!

The reviews got the total number of galleries and videos totally wrong and a hell of a lot more.

Rich Media and Sir Rodney are the only sites who refused to correct obvious errors which would have stopped surfers looking for an Indian site going to one that is in the minority for having a REAL Indian.

You know me and my reputation from near enough when I started back in 99 .... I do not use any other race than an Indian and call them an Indian as do the majority of so called "Indian" sites.

TBP, Rabbit and a couple of others have made fair crititicism of SGD as well as praise it, and corrected the errors when pointed out. Those sites I have respect for

What I do find funny is how the different reviewers see the same site. One praised SGD for the ease of navigation and another said it wasn't that easy... LOL. Thank g-d most reviews have agreed with the ease of it....

So I stay with my comment.. If a review site wants to look at my Indian sites I want someone who knows what he's looking at, and then with that knowledge he can compare it fairly to the competition... Not some asshole who knows nothing about it and is comparing it in his mind, to his fav blonde cheerleaders site... !!!!

And do you still have me on ICQ 61867184... We must catch up

A muslim porn star? There is no such thing

Theo · 07-13-2006, 08:13 PM

A business decision on how a review site will define their algorithm score should not be perceived as unethical especially when price is primary factor of it.

lagwagon · 07-13-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rankscom

Yo Rob! Let's get you a follow-up review man. Last review was 11-06-04 and 2000k video alone will be loved by the reviewers. You're only 1.5 pts away from breaking the top 10. Say the word or log-in and request a follow-up, and the gears will be in motion!

p.s. Only 4 sites in our top 10 have exclusive discounts with us.

I have submitted the follow-up review. TY

Ca$h · 07-14-2006, 01:14 AM

its not right

richmedia · 07-14-2006, 02:14 AM

Hello Steve.
I understand your position about sentence "HERE ARE OTHER SITES WE THINK ARE EVEN BETTER" on your site review pages. This is not so tactfullyhahaha1102; I'd better use something like "...similar to this site".

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

It is against our program terms/conditions to use our content to promote another sponsor's sites. I don't know why any sponsor should pay an affiliate who ass-rapes them by having potential surfers diverted to another sponsor's site!

I've had more than enough of fucked up review sites and their bullshit games!

I don't agree with your opinion. All TGPs use your content to promote another pay sites near with your pay sites. Any site promoting more than one affiliate program do it in a hidden form.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLightspeed

I've had more than enough of fucked up review sites and their bullshit games!

As I know, the review sites became a separate traffic niche for the last 3 years. 3 years ago I've count 3 big review sites and around 10 intermediate review sites and maybe 50 tiny amateur review sites.
At this time I know at least 10 big sites, 30 intermediate and who knows how much starters.
When you decline the review sites at all, you drop the good sells channel.

For example: http://www.porninspector.com is a gate to promotion on other sites in my network: http://www.penisbot.com , http://www.wetplace.com , etc.

richmedia · 07-14-2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vvq

Review site joins are the worst retaining joins around. There are exceptions, but most isn't worth it.

I hear this opinion and I partially agree with it. The problem: review sites attract experianced pay sites cutomers. Why Steve write about "horrible cancelation guide" on TheBestPorn, it's not a true reason of bad retention.

In conclusion I want to write couple words about review sites quality:
Yes, the problem of low reviews quality exist and it come mostly from the new palyers in the review niche. I've seen many new review sites with only perfect reviews. It's funny to see hundreds "5+" reviews and this is not a good long term strategy.

We at http://www.porninspector.com try to keep reviews independed and reviewers been paid equaliy for good and for bad reviews.

Alky · 07-14-2006, 03:02 AM

for people to say price doesn't matter, thats ridiculous.

take 2 sites, basically same content and all... one is $20 more per month then the other... I sure as hell would like to know as a future customer.

matuloo · 07-14-2006, 03:17 AM

I see a lot of nonsense posted from guys who never ran a review site and don't understand how it works.

- you say we rate sites according to how much money they make us, well it's bullshit, because when you review a site you have no idea about how well it sells. You can only rate a site based on how much you like it, expressing your subjective opinion - and that's what a review is about - expressing the opinion of a reviewer.

- you say we make hidden deals and under the table agreements with paysite owners - why would we do it? There are 1000s of paysites out there, I don't really need to make any special agreements with anyone. I don't even need to chase webmasters in order to let me review their sites, it works the other way around.

- you seem to have a problem with price being included in the final rate. But why is it a problem? Every review site sets its own scoring structure, so if they decided to take price into consideration, of course cheap sites will get a few extra points.

I really don't understand the cause of this whole thread, and I really don't understand what some of you say.

Review sites are just another form of promotion. They don't rule the world, they don't rule the adult internet. These sites are mostly quite small webs, that have very small impact on the adult web in general. Each review site has it's top list compiled from sites that they liked, and I am sure the owners of those sites are happy about it. And of course, those with poor ranked sites don't like it.

So what? Not everyone will like your site, now does that make them stupid or uneducated - so anyone who doesnt like your site is a moron or doesnt understand the subject? This is bullshit.

And some of you fail to understand one more thing. Review sites have their own traffic. They don't use the content from paysites to attract traffic, the content is used as samples to show the surfers. The traffic that flows through the review sites is a result of their own promotion in most cases. Of course a small part of the traffic comes from SE's - surfers who look for info related to particular sites or models, but it's just a small part.

So the title of this thread is not really accurate, review sites are not using paysite content to attract surfers, they are using the content to give THEIR surfers a honest opinion and show them what the paysite really is about. Which is perfectly fine in my opinion.

At the end it's all very simple - did you receive a good review? Maximize the potential, tell your surfers you've been ranked high, several sites are doing this with great success. Did you receive a bad review? Well, learn from it, try to improve or simply forget about it if you feel like that. A bad review isnt gonna ruin your business, the review webs simply dont have that impact.

darksoul · 07-14-2006, 03:25 AM

Look how this dude is promoting Tawnee (no 1 in google)
http://www.celebsdb.com/Tawnee_Stone/
I wouldn't call that fair.

Steve, what you need to do is to claim your rankings.
Invest in some seo work, it will be worth it.

JoeA · 07-14-2006, 04:12 AM

QuaWee

Sahara played on being "Muslim" a lot last year, specially for the mainstream UK tv documentary we appeared in together and watched by 1.8 million viewers iver here. On a few of the Muslim forums some called for a Fatwar against her... One asshole posted her home address and I had the police watch it for a week.

One producer she'd just worked with, jumped on this and claimed he and the band who created the music for the film received death threats to get publicity... LOL. In the meantime I as her mentor, friend and webmaster received nothing at all !

In fact she's had the same "I'm the first/only Muslim porn star published in mags a few times since then.. Only prob.. She isn't. My story was published on YNOT a couple of months before she played on it, where I say that most of the Asian Indian's I've shot since 2001 have been Muslims: http://www.ynot.com/modules.php?op=m...cle&s id=9055

Matt 26z · 07-14-2006, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt

the review sites encourage cancelling.

Are they really encourage canceling, or are they calming the fears of uneducated surfers? There are A LOT of surfers who won't sign up for sites because they do not understand the billing process. They fear being charged too much and also not being able to cancel when they want to. That page on TBP sets it straight for them.

Rui · 07-14-2006, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny2

Ok I'll try to type slowly so you can follow along.

In both cases you have an affiliate using someone's intellectual property to get traffic, and then sending that traffic to someone OTHER THAN the owner of that intellectual property that brought the surfer to your site in the first place.

...yeah whatever you say...

Check that wikipedia link I posted...looks like you also don't know what the word REVIEW means...

asdfqwer · 07-14-2006, 06:47 AM

Not the best idea to sell other websites using another website's content

JoeA · 07-14-2006, 07:20 AM

BoobleBob.. Check your spam box as some of the emails from my private address end up there my friends tell me

And tell Al to do the same

Then hopefully all will be cleared up and we can get back to doing biz...

07-13-2006, 04:22 PM	#201
SteveLightspeed Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Lightspeedworld Posts: 7,940	Ok, I've stayed out of this post for a while deliberately to absorb many other people's opinions. I admit that I did react emotionally, and for that I apologize to Rick, Aly, and thebestporn.com crew. I accept the fact that other sites are seen as "better". I like many of them better than my own too. Their achievements are inspirational to me; ATK, Karups, Twistys, Homegrown, and many others. I'm not complaining about their scores or their reviews. Anyone who knows me also knows I take great pride in my work, often to the point of obsession. I feel that our sites are better today than they have ever been. We've focused for nearly a year on improving the quantity and quality of our content offerings, and adding features and services that we believe our surfers want and deserve. Many of the ideas we've implemented were suggestions from TBP. That is why I get so frustrated, after "waiting 6 months to be re-reviewed" to see little or no change, or even worse, a reduction in score. I feel like I'm chasing a the proverbial carrot here! So I flew off the handle, posted in haste, and attacked a company for no good reason. I regret that. Its not my style. I don't hate review sites in general, nor TBP in particular. I think the many posts and opinions expressed in this thread do serve to prove the point that the review process is imperfect, and I hope that we can all work together to find common ground and a win/win. Steve Lightspeed __________________ Abra-cadabra!

07-13-2006, 05:06 PM	#206
Aly President, ePufferProfits Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,881	Nice response Steve... and thanks for starting an interesting and important discussion... especially now that new review sites are popping up at the rate of new affiliate programs in 2000! ;) __________________ . . Aly's ICQ: 51504163 . Aly's Email: [email protected]

07-13-2006, 06:05 PM	#217
karup Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Detoilet, Michigan Posts: 45	In my opinion, it is unethical for a review site to offer a site owner a higher score if the site owner is willing to give the review site's surfers a discounted price. Don't give me this bullshit about price affecting the score. Your job is to review the site as is, so review it as is, don't offer a better score for doing your surfers a favor and making you look better. We were offered a better score by The Best Porn if we were willing to reduce our price for their surfers. I'll be honest, that pissed me off. Here they are trying to be all ethical & filled with integrity, yet behind the scenes they are trying to make deals that have nothing to do with a site's quality & true rating. Wouldn't we be fucking over our longtime members that have been paying $29.95 per month for years if we gave TBP surfers a discounted price? Wouldn't we also be fucking over our affiliates that have been supporting us for over 8 years? Thanks, but no thanks, not interested in any bullshit & behind the scene deals to improve our ratings. We've got more integrity than that. __________________ Jeff / EENT, Inc. KarupsPC.com - KarupsHA.com - KarupsOW.com - BFCollection.com XXXRewards - Highest Retention in the Biz http://www.xxxrewards.com/

07-13-2006, 06:07 PM	#218
SleazyDream I'm here for SPORT Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phone # (401) 285-0696 Posts: 41,470	what if your models posed for the review sites in the same cloths at the exact same location. then it would be the models problem and not the review sites on your contract with them. ok, i'm bored __________________ This dog, is dog, a dog, good dog, way dog, to dog, keep dog, an dog, idiot dog, busy dog, for dog, 20 dog, seconds dog! Now read without the word dog.

07-13-2006, 06:12 PM	#220
Far-L Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,065	My one gripe... I just don't think that a higher price point for a site that has more and better than one that has less and worse should be negatively reviewed. I see amateur sites with far, far less than ours in so many ways but with much higher reviews. Completely baffles me but still I support the reviewers right to judge us in whatever way they wish. __________________ HomegrownCash.com, the affiliate program of Homegrown Video - The Largest Collection of Amateur XXX - Est. 1982. Contact - Email: farrell AT homegrownvideo D com Skype: hgfarl Newsweek Magazine - "Homegrown Video, the longest running series in the history of porn."

07-13-2006, 05:29 PM	#209
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	I think part of Steve's problem here (even though he's calmed down quite a bit) is that the value of his business is his brand recognition. Some guys goes to work and over lunch with a buddy says "I saw this awesome babe last night on the net named Tawnee Stone" His buddy then goes home and google's Tawnee Stone, and lo and behold the top results for that keyword are review sites. The surfer clicks through and is then told that Tawnee's site is "just ok" but here are 15 sites we think are better. Now Steve's branding which has costs him hundreds of thousands of dollars is what brought that surfer in the first place, and then the review site with the SERP ranking sends the surfer somewhere else. I'd be pissed to. This is very similar to the problem Shap has with blogs using a bunch of his pics on a page when the main purpose of the page is to promote someone else's dating site. If Steve wanted to he could literally force review sites from using the names of his models at all, since they are his intellectual property, and I think he feels that review sites are using "his name" to make money from "other sponsors" He has some legitimate gripes here

07-13-2006, 05:30 PM	#210
FTVGirls_Rob Confirmed User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 187	I do agree with Steve on the main point however -- that to get to be on the Top 10, you'd need to make an exclusive discount plan with thebestporn. Since I cannot do that right now with FTV, it simply shuts me out of the top ten now... even with the 2000kb/sec wmv video upgrades and no price increase.

07-13-2006, 06:18 PM	#221
Jace FBOP Class Of 2013 Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: bumfuck, ky Posts: 35,562	TBP, i have a question about sites that work out special deals for your surfers say I gave your surfers a special price of $14.95, would you all also be getting our standard 60% payout out of that also?

07-13-2006, 08:13 PM	#238
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	A business decision on how a review site will define their algorithm score should not be perceived as unethical especially when price is primary factor of it.

07-14-2006, 01:14 AM	#240
Ca$h Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Mars Posts: 495	its not right __________________ $oIo$

07-14-2006, 03:02 AM	#243
Alky Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston Posts: 5,651	for people to say price doesn't matter, thats ridiculous. take 2 sites, basically same content and all... one is $20 more per month then the other... I sure as hell would like to know as a future customer.

07-14-2006, 03:17 AM	#244
matuloo Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 441	I see a lot of nonsense posted from guys who never ran a review site and don't understand how it works. - you say we rate sites according to how much money they make us, well it's bullshit, because when you review a site you have no idea about how well it sells. You can only rate a site based on how much you like it, expressing your subjective opinion - and that's what a review is about - expressing the opinion of a reviewer. - you say we make hidden deals and under the table agreements with paysite owners - why would we do it? There are 1000s of paysites out there, I don't really need to make any special agreements with anyone. I don't even need to chase webmasters in order to let me review their sites, it works the other way around. - you seem to have a problem with price being included in the final rate. But why is it a problem? Every review site sets its own scoring structure, so if they decided to take price into consideration, of course cheap sites will get a few extra points. I really don't understand the cause of this whole thread, and I really don't understand what some of you say. Review sites are just another form of promotion. They don't rule the world, they don't rule the adult internet. These sites are mostly quite small webs, that have very small impact on the adult web in general. Each review site has it's top list compiled from sites that they liked, and I am sure the owners of those sites are happy about it. And of course, those with poor ranked sites don't like it. So what? Not everyone will like your site, now does that make them stupid or uneducated - so anyone who doesnt like your site is a moron or doesnt understand the subject? This is bullshit. And some of you fail to understand one more thing. Review sites have their own traffic. They don't use the content from paysites to attract traffic, the content is used as samples to show the surfers. The traffic that flows through the review sites is a result of their own promotion in most cases. Of course a small part of the traffic comes from SE's - surfers who look for info related to particular sites or models, but it's just a small part. So the title of this thread is not really accurate, review sites are not using paysite content to attract surfers, they are using the content to give THEIR surfers a honest opinion and show them what the paysite really is about. Which is perfectly fine in my opinion. At the end it's all very simple - did you receive a good review? Maximize the potential, tell your surfers you've been ranked high, several sites are doing this with great success. Did you receive a bad review? Well, learn from it, try to improve or simply forget about it if you feel like that. A bad review isnt gonna ruin your business, the review webs simply dont have that impact.

07-14-2006, 03:25 AM	#245
darksoul Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: /root/ Posts: 4,997	Look how this dude is promoting Tawnee (no 1 in google) http://www.celebsdb.com/Tawnee_Stone/ I wouldn't call that fair. Steve, what you need to do is to claim your rankings. Invest in some seo work, it will be worth it. __________________ 1337 5y54\|)m1n: 157717888 BM-2cUBw4B2fgiYAfjkE7JvWaJMiUXD96n9tN Cambooth

07-14-2006, 04:12 AM	#246
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	QuaWee Sahara played on being "Muslim" a lot last year, specially for the mainstream UK tv documentary we appeared in together and watched by 1.8 million viewers iver here. On a few of the Muslim forums some called for a Fatwar against her... One asshole posted her home address and I had the police watch it for a week. One producer she'd just worked with, jumped on this and claimed he and the band who created the music for the film received death threats to get publicity... LOL. In the meantime I as her mentor, friend and webmaster received nothing at all ! In fact she's had the same "I'm the first/only Muslim porn star published in mags a few times since then.. Only prob.. She isn't. My story was published on YNOT a couple of months before she played on it, where I say that most of the Asian Indian's I've shot since 2001 have been Muslims: http://www.ynot.com/modules.php?op=m...cle&s id=9055 __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/

07-14-2006, 06:47 AM	#249
asdfqwer Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 431	Not the best idea to sell other websites using another website's content

07-14-2006, 07:20 AM	#250
JoeA Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: London Posts: 568	BoobleBob.. Check your spam box as some of the emails from my private address end up there my friends tell me And tell Al to do the same Then hopefully all will be cleared up and we can get back to doing biz... __________________ www.saharagetsdirty.com/ www.ravishingindians.com/ www.anglo-indian-girls.com/